[ANN] NeuCoin - Easy to use, free to try, focused on micropayments - Official

[LiQio]

From your FAQs (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1tQTW168Wkqscg-sgJ4cYd8EzxnnQb6NFpH_dY4RdnnE/edit?usp=sharing)

Note that 83% (83% prior to the presale, 80% after the presale) of the 30B NeuCoins at launch will be owned by NeuCoin's non-profit Code, Growth and Utility foundations. 6.7% will be owned by founders and 10% will be owned by investors -- and all the coins owned by founders and investors have re-sale restrictions for 5 years.

and

NeuCoin’s economic model uses very high PoS awards, starting at 100% per year in year one and gradually declining to 6% by year ten. The total coin supply begins with a 3 billion pre-mine and will grow to an estimated 100 billion over ten years, with the actual number dependent on the percentage of coins that are mined over time.

 

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[Sandrine89]

Hi LiQio!

These numbers are indeed accurate. An important point you are not mentioning though is that the mission of each of these three foundations is to distribute or sell their NeuCoin holding over time, in a fully transparent manner as well as in a way that maximizes the long-term value of the currency.
As you may have read in our wiki, NeuCoin is distributed to reward and incentivize all participants who help increase its utility and value:

• Some for free to consumers to try using NeuCoin and for recruiting other users
• Some to companies that make NeuCoin useful: content providers that accept micropayments in NeuCoin, exchanges, payment processors, wallets, etc.
• Some sold to investors, with proceeds used to fund code development, user acquisition, and projects to further develop utility, with a focus on micropayments

More information is also available here: http://www.neucoin.org/en/wiki/#funding

By the time of launch, NeuCoin’s three non-profit foundations will be funded with 2.4 billion NeuCoins and at least $1.5 million (enough fiat currency to cover their first year cash expenditures).

Each year, the foundations’ goal is to sell sufficient NeuCoins through private sales or exchanges to fund the following year’s cash needs. However, when NeuCoin prices rise, the foundations may sell additional coins, with the excess cash obtained kept as a “rainy day” reserve. When prices fall, fewer (or zero) coins will be sold. 

Over time, the NeuCoin foundations must continuously determine what the optimal use of their NeuCoin assets are - optimal from the perspective of maximizing the value of NeuCoin. The Growth foundation must always assess whether NeuCoin’s long-term value would be maximized by giving more coins away to consumers, or selling more coins and using the funds for consumer marketing. The Utility foundation must always assess whether NeuCoin’s long-term value would be maximized by awarding more coins (ideally with sales restrictions) to service providers that make NeuCoin more useful, or by selling more coins and using the proceeds to directly fund projects. The prevailing price and demand for NeuCoin will always have a large bearing on this decision calculus.

During the first few years after launch, the number of NeuCoins held by the foundations is expected to increase, because the extremely high PoS awards during the early years should be considerably higher than the foundations’ expenses. Foundation coin holdings are projected to peak around year five, then decline slowly and ultimately stabilize at under 10% of the total supply.

[Sandrine89]

any news

Yes! We just released important news about the NeuCoin presale which will start on April 28

• 100 million NEU to be offered in exchange for BTC
• Price starts at $0.01 per NEU and increases by 1% per day
• Presale ends after 60 days or when the 100 million tokens have been sold

All proceeds from the presale will be held in escrow until the NeuCoin cryptocurrency is launched, expected to happen in July. (If the launch does not occur by September 30, all presale purchases will be refunded). Following launch, all proceeds will be distributed among NeuCoin’s three Isle of Man-based, non-profit foundations - the Code, Growth and Utility Foundations - and will be used, along with cash remaining from NeuCoin’s strategic angel round, to fund core development, consumer marketing and projects that increase the utility of the cryptocurrency.

The initial price of $.01 per NeuCoin is two times the price paid over the past year by NeuCoin’s strategic angel investors (in cash) and NeuCoin’s founding team. However, all the NeuCoin sold to angels and retained by the founding team can only be sold or used at the rate of 2%/month during the year after launch, 3%/month during year two, 4%/month during year three, 5%/month during year four, and 6%/month during year five. These re-sale restrictions were put in place to ensure that the founding team and strategic angels are committed to the successful development of NeuCoin over the long term.

The main purpose of the presale is to enable the broader crypto community to join NeuCoin’s own community:

• A founding team who have launched several consumer-facing internet companies that have reached tens of millions of users in the music, gaming and shopping spaces. See bios here: http://www.neucoin.org/en/wiki/#team
• Strategic advisors that include Patricke Stymne, co-founder and Chief Architect of King (Candy Crush Saga), Alex Norstrom, Head of Growth of Spotify, Jackson Palmer, creator of Dogecoin, Michael Witrant, core developer of Peercoin, and Brock Pierce, crypto financier and member of the Bitcoin Foundation
• NeuCoin's strategic angels, invited to invest based on their ability to forge partnerships and help drive consumer adoption, include the SVP of Business at Uber, the President of Hotwire, the Head of Growth at Facebook, Producers of television shows American Idol and X-factor, and dozens of other top tech, media and VC executives and entrepreneurs. List of angels here: http://www.neucoin.org/en/wiki/#angels

The initial presale price of $.01 equates to a market value of $30 million for the total supply of 3 billion NeuCoins that will exist at launch. However, at a price of $.01, it is worth noting that coinmarketcap.com (the popular digital currency pricing information provider) will initially indicate NeuCoin’s market cap at just $1 million - because the only NeuCoin available for sale at launch will be the 100 million NeuCoins sold in the presale. Moreover, as shown in the chart below, the vast majority of all NeuCoin at launch will be held by NeuCoin’s foundations, which will use their NeuCoin assets to increase the utility and value of the cryptocurrency over time.

Proceeds from the NeuCoin token presale, along with cash remaining from the angel investors, will cover the foundations’ expenses during the year after launch. The foundations’ main objectives for year one are the following:

• One million or more consumers using NeuCoin for online micropayments
• Hundreds of quality content providers accepting NeuCoin micropayments
• Integration with leading exchanges in all major geographic markets to enable easy access to NeuCoin for consumers worldwide

As an incentive to learn more and get involved, the NeuCoin foundations are offering up to 2,500 NeuCoins to those who read NeuCoin’s Strategic Plan (http://www.neucoin.org/en/wiki/) and share their opinions through a questionnaire available from the Strategic Plan page. These would be additional to any NeuCoins you earned if you completed the earlier survey.

Looking forward to your feedback!

[LiQio]

Sandrine89, the ratios of distribution and fund allocation are simply outrageous.
I read the "fully transparent", "maximizing long-term" and so on stuff. Those vague statements and claims are simply not enough for any investor. Your documentation lacks depth and the allotment of power (coins) makes every presale investor a puppet.

My current rating: scam 2.0

[Sandrine89]

Sandrine89, the ratios of distribution and fund allocation are simply outrageous.
I read the "fully transparent", "maximizing long-term" and so on stuff. Those vague statements and claims are simply not enough for any investor. Your documentation lacks depth and the allotment of power (coins) makes every presale investor a puppet.

The NeuCoin premine allocation has been announced and transparent from the beginning. If you look at my very first post on this thread, the pie chart already described the ratios of distribution and fund allocation you are referring to
I would highly advise you to have a look at http://www.neucoin.org/en/wiki/#foundations about our governance. All foundations are ultimately controlled by NeuCoin holders (1 NeuCoin = 1 vote), who have the power to hire, fire and set compensation for the foundations’ Council Members, and have a right of approval on annual budgets, spending priorities and other matters. This structure makes NeuCoin more decentralized and accountable than Bitcoin, Ripple or Stellar, let alone most of the anonymous alt coins out there.
We are releasing new details about our strategic plan very often, and will keep doing so.

My current rating: scam 2.0

Interesting rating, as most of our investors have reputations they would not want to risk by associating themselves to a scam. If you look at our team, angels and advisors (http://www.neucoin.org/en/wiki/#people), none of them are anonymous, and most of them (including myself) would risk a lot by association their names to a scam. We all have track records that are publicly available (Twitter, LinkedIn, etc).
Besides, we are all subject to very strict 5-year re-sale restrictions on our NeuCoin holdings. They were announced on our launch, on this link http://www.neucoin.org/en/wiki/#advantages, point 10. We will only benefit from having founded NeuCoin by making the currency strive in the long run - and these restrictions insure this. Long-term success is what a cryptocurrency investor should look for, no?

[LiQio]

Sandrine89, the ratios of distribution and fund allocation are simply outrageous.
I read the "fully transparent", "maximizing long-term" and so on stuff. Those vague statements and claims are simply not enough for any investor. Your documentation lacks depth and the allotment of power (coins) makes every presale investor a puppet.

The NeuCoin premine allocation has been announced and transparent from the beginning. If you look at my very first post on this thread, the pie chart already described the ratios of distribution and fund allocation you are referring to
I would highly advise you to have a look at http://www.neucoin.org/en/wiki/#foundations about our governance. All foundations are ultimately controlled by NeuCoin holders (1 NeuCoin = 1 vote), who have the power to hire, fire and set compensation for the foundations’ Council Members, and have a right of approval on annual budgets, spending priorities and other matters. This structure makes NeuCoin more decentralized and accountable than Bitcoin, Ripple or Stellar, let alone most of the anonymous alt coins out there.
We are releasing new details about our strategic plan very often, and will keep doing so.

My current rating: scam 2.0

Interesting rating, as most of our investors have reputations they would not want to risk by associating themselves to a scam. If you look at our team, angels and advisors (http://www.neucoin.org/en/wiki/#people), none of them are anonymous, and most of them (including myself) would risk a lot by association their names to a scam. We all have track records that are publicly available (Twitter, LinkedIn, etc).
Besides, we are all subject to very strict 5-year re-sale restrictions on our NeuCoin holdings. They were announced on our launch, on this link http://www.neucoin.org/en/wiki/#advantages, point 10. We will only benefit from having founded NeuCoin by making the currency strive in the long run - and these restrictions insure this. Long-term success is what a cryptocurrency investor should look for, no?

You are constantly paraphrasing the same things.
If something was announced a long time ago doesn't give it quality.

Please tell me:
- "All foundations are ultimately controlled by NeuCoin holders (1 NeuCoin = 1 vote)" -> Will the foundations not be able to vote with their huge majority of coins?
- How will the foundations influence the market price? What is the hopefully transparent strategy (in-depth) and how is it enforced?
- Will there be a detailed spending plan for the huge amount of foundation stakes plus the huge amount of coins they will receive from the high reward PoS rewards before the sale of the peanuts starts?

[BitcoinFX]

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=944933.msg10933262#msg10933262

Hi everyone!

Bitcoin FX, sorry it took me so long to get back to you about your questions, as they’re all relevant to any cryptocommunity member interested in the NeuCoin project. Here are a couple answers, if you feel I haven’t answered all your questions or would like me to develop a few points, let me know, I’ll be happy to do so.
I believe these answers will also address a couple other questions asked on this thread.

Are these strict re-sale provisions including or excluding all or any PoS interest ? How can this be verified ?

The crypto community will definitely be able to verify that the sale restrictions are respected - we will give you more details about this soon. The re-sale provisions are including PoS interest, though we will publish a detailed explanation of how this will be managed so that there is no misunderstanding.
Keep in mind that there is absolutely no interest for the founders or angel investors in not abiding by the sale restrictions, as it would create immediate distrust in the community and thus harm NeuCoin's short and long term value - which is not in the founders' and angels' best interest.

  100,000,000 NeuCoin = Public Pre-sale @ $0.01 = 1 NeuCoin (i.e. 1 million USD)

Thus, valuing the pre-mine at 30,000,000 USD

The initial presale price of $.01 equates to a market value of $30 million for the total supply of 3 billion NeuCoins that will exist at launch. However, at a price of $.01, it is important to note  that Coinmarketcap.com will initially indicate NeuCoin’s market cap at just $1 million, because Coinmarketcap.com lists currencies by “available supply” and the only NeuCoin available for sale at launch will be the 100 million NeuCoins sold in the presale (the rest are either sale-restricted or held by foundations). This will rank NeuCoin as number 33 in terms of market cap, with a lower valuation than coins such as Clams, ShadowCash, DNotes and CoinoUSD.

To clarify: NeuCoin’s market cap will be listed at $1 million by available supply vs $30 million by total supply. By comparison, Ripple is listed at $285 million by available supply vs its $890 market cap by total supply, and Stellar is listed $13 million by available supply vs its $270 million market cap by total supply.

Even with the initial 100% PoS percentage if the NeuCoin team is successful in attracting new NeuCoin'ers to the currency and building upon said utility, as they have put forward, then NeuCoin could hold its value overtime quite well and may potentially increase in value long-term as the PoS interest percentage return declines.

I don't see NeuCoin being a high or fast return investment though, as from what I have modeled I think anyone buying into the pre-sale would be very lucky to even double their investment within the first year on the basis of the above.

You will be able to gain very high interests on the coins you either buy through our presale or mine, thanks to our high PoS rates. These PoS rates were designed this way so that they can reward early adopters - and actually provide an interesting return on their investment.

Is what effectively equates to a more than > 94% pre-mine really workable moving forward and in the long-term ?

Our pre-mine, the 2.4B NEU donated to the three non-profit foundations, is actually what will enable the NeuCoin Project team to fund useful applications for NeuCoins and acquire mainstream users.
The Foundations will sell parts of this pre-mine to fund micro-payment platforms and incentivize the building of an ecosystem around NeuCoin
The Foundations will distribute some of this pre-mine for free to consumers in exchange for them to try using the currency (through our freemium model) or to learn about NeuCoin
This pre-mine will be totally distributed over time, and will be so in a completely transparent manner.

Don’t hesitate to ask any other questions, I’ll get back to you in a more responsive manner! 

NeuCoin's initial 100% PoS rate is inexplicably high, even with the consideration to 'reward early adopters'.

The fact that the PoS reward does eventually reduce to 6% is probably workable long-term though, as this provides a more realistic rate of return and one more familiar to fiat savers, for example. However, 100% PoS will most likely quickly diminish pre-sale value even at $0.01 per NeuCoin. It will take for some very spectacular adoption to see market demand increase above this rate of PoS minting.

What I'm personally most uneasy with is the NeuCoin economic model in regards to the fact that a centralized entity is basically in control of the purse strings from the outset and moving forward. Whilst I can fully recognize that Bitcoin mining using pure PoW has also become very centralized in terms of distribution, this is arguably a network effect with coin supply not being restricted, controlled or determined by any entity, unlike with NeuCoin.

The alt. coin most similar to NeuCoin is probably Mintcoin which started at 20% PoS return and eventually reduces to 5% in 4 years. Mintcoin's price is in fact very stable in comparison to most alt. coin's when we consider that its price has effectively been a measured mainly against Bitcoin's price volatility. Mintcoin has been a comparatively stable crypto currency because it has such a large coin base. So, with NeuCoin being focused towards micro payments, this could work well for price stability.

What percentage of 'The Foundations' NeuCoins are being given away (i.e. freemium) and/or are to be sold ?

The main issue here I think is really that:  we 'the 99%' only have access to around 5% of all NeuCoin  whereas  you 'the 1%' have access to around 95% of all NeuCoin.

[-Greed-]

http://cointelegraph.com/storage/uploads/view/bc064a56eb65076b9ddcad1caec20f1f.jpg
Come on guys, .1% for 1M is not serious. Who's gonna buy?

[rizzlarolla]

Hi Newbie here!

Just wanna tell ya how good Neucoin is looking.
I gotta lotta great points.

aimed at, and easy for non crypto users......   purchase your Neucoin soon with "hard to get and hard to use bitcoin."
100% first year mine......   3bn coins at launch, 5bn coins mined, "approx 8bn" total coins in first year (that is 100% in Neu land)
utility from the start......   "next year" sometime, hopefully
useful for tipping......   great to give to someone else that didnt want it
catchy logo, the blue squirrel......   a deal maker in the fintech world i imagine, now that is marketing.
super name Neucoin......   I think it means "New"coin, get it? imagine the time they have to put into this stuff!
great forum......   75 confused/misleading threads. its great fun, facts are not welcome here.
$2.25m initial funding......   paid in "work done" and funny handshakes
transparent......   you can see straight through it

dont think about it, then you ll know it makes sense

[Robert Lewandowski]

I don't think you guys realize how long 5 years is in the CryptoCurrency space.

All the coins owned by founders and investors have re-sale restrictions for 5 years.

[RealMalatesta]

My current rating: scam 2.0

Interesting rating, as most of our investors have reputations they would not want to risk by associating themselves to a scam. If you look at our team, angels and advisors (http://www.neucoin.org/en/wiki/#people), none of them are anonymous, and most of them (including myself) would risk a lot by association their names to a scam. We all have track records that are publicly available (Twitter, LinkedIn, etc).
Besides, we are all subject to very strict 5-year re-sale restrictions on our NeuCoin holdings. They were announced on our launch, on this link http://www.neucoin.org/en/wiki/#advantages, point 10. We will only benefit from having founded NeuCoin by making the currency strive in the long run - and these restrictions insure this. Long-term success is what a cryptocurrency investor should look for, no?

They would not want to risk their reputation? Well, I guess you haven't read through this thread then:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=620267.0

And regarding "track records" - do you really think that people here in the forum are so naive to think that stuff written on Twitter, LinkedIn and alike give any credibility?

No, sorry, especially that someone like Brook Pierce doesn't resign from the Bitcoin Foundation's board immedeately once he helps to set up a new coin tells a lot. He gives a shit about Bitcoin or the community. All he cares about is his personal wealth.

And let's look at your sooooo strict "re-sale restrictions":

In contrast to virtually all previous digital currencies with pre-mines, all NeuCoins held by the founding team, seed and angel investors are subject to strict re-sale provisions for five years, so that holders may only sell 2% of their holdings per month in the first year, 3% per month in year two, 4% per month in the year three, 5% per month in year four and 6% per month in year 5.

This makes 24% of the holdings in the first year.
27 % in the second year.
23 % in the third.

And so on.

Beside this: Where and how are these restrictions legally and irrevocably written down?

[kushti]

Published some feedback on the whitepaper on the NxtForum https://nxtforum.org/general-discussion/neucoin%27s-40-page-white-paper-rebuts-all-nothing-at-stake-objections/msg174417/#msg174417

Finally, I've read the paper carefully. Feedback:

1. As kernel = fn(timestamp, fn(UTXO)), and timestamp could be shifted, time-grinding is possible(a miner can play with timestamp of current kernel aiming to have better kernel within some timerange in future as well). Paper describes only some sort of protection against UTXO-grinding.

In Nxt, kernel is hash(lastBlock.kernel, account.publicKey) , and so there're no grinding attacks at all.

2. Is any incentive to split outputs to have more hits(even with less target)? Unclear

3. Paper states punishments for contributing to multiple forks, but no any details given. To punish miner for contributing, evidence should be published somehow into the chain(otherwise it will be not possible for a node joined a network after to say why a miner was punished).

4. Isn't stake modifier calculation leading to costly chain validation?

5. Pg 12, Nxt was launched in Nov, 2013, not 2014. And probably Nxt has more forks.

[tolikkk]

gays, free 2500 NEU - just answer for few question!
https://clck.ru/9UApS

[pringles1901]

gays, free 2500 NEU - just answer for few question!
https://clck.ru/9UApS

OK so i took the survey so were are my coins then...left my email address...nothing...looks like a scam right from the start

[robinbobin]

all the coins owned by founders and investors have re-sale restrictions for 5 years.

[/quote]

ATTENTION!
Just doing some math.

Presale volume is 0.1 billion out of 3 billion current total number according to pre-mine allocation from p10 of strategic plan (pie chart).
So, even if I buy all 100mln coins in presale to crypto-community, my network share will be 0.1/3= 0.03 or 3%.

Fondations, angels, the team have a 97% network share. True, they have 5year restriction on sale of their CURRENT (!) holdings.
In a POS a user is rewarded new coins in proportion of their current holdings. Therefore following network share rule of POS, 97 out of every 100 newly mined coins go to the "management group"  and 3% to presale users.
Obviously there is no restriction on dumping these 97% of newly created coins to the market.

Since "NeuCoin’s economic model uses very high PoS awards, starting at 100% per year in year one" the team gets their money back in the first year.
Angels and the team don't have to sale their initial holding at all, since they make it up in the "interest" from POS coin creation on their share of capital. The 5year restriction might have been as well a 20y restriction.

"... coin holdings will multiply by up to 50X over 10 years with non-stop PoS mining" - how about coin value? Any plans to keep it at least stable.

[chaoman]

pretty much a scam that goes against the decentralized spirit of cryptos. how many times will you guys have to get burned in order to learn? they can just take all the money from the presale and run. there is more incentive to doing that and it is easier and more profitable to do that then to create an actual service.

[tolikkk]

gays, free 2500 NEU - just answer for few question!
https://clck.ru/9UApS

OK so i took the survey so were are my coins then...left my email address...nothing...looks like a scam right from the start

in than sense constant start?  - so many forks..

[TaunSew]

The strategic angel list looks like names used without their consent.   Using exact phrase matching, I have not been able any of those dozen+ names mention NeuCoin anywhere on their official twitter and facebook.  For about half of them - the information of them endorsing NeuCoin only exists on your NeuCoin wikipedia.  Some of the others the information is traceable to press releases you sent out in February but still no hard proof.

People have been asking for validation for weeks - in the form of these Venture Capitalists going public on their social media accounts endorsing NeuCoin.  There is no explanation for straw man or deflecting these requests for validation.  It just shows that either your investors are ashamed of this project or you are using their names without their consent.  

Before you used the false dichotomy of: "we would never do that because we would be sued" and really this is a logical fallacy.  People get sued all the time and over the dumbest things. If people were really concerned about being sued in the world then there would be no lawsuits..  


  Tech wise I don't think  fork of a Peercoin or adware spam prompting people to download some $hitcoin on a radio sites will produce a million users in 1 year.  If it were that easy then Bitcoin would had done it years ago.

  I already use Tunein on a daily basis (which has more users and better content than your radioairplay) and I would never pay for Tunein nor download a cryptocurrency they recommended and the same applies to if I were using radioairplay.  There's no user adoption or proof of concept from trying to push cryptocurrency on sites where people are accustomed to free content and don't want to pay for anything.

[astrobitcoin]

Since "NeuCoin’s economic model uses very high PoS awards, starting at 100% per year in year one" the team gets their money back in the first year.
Angels and the team don't have to sale their initial holding at all, since they make it up in the "interest" from POS coin creation on their share of capital. The 5year restriction might have been as well a 20y restriction.

"... coin holdings will multiply by up to 50X over 10 years with non-stop PoS mining" - how about coin value? Any plans to keep it at least stable.

good point, seems like the initial price valutation is just unsustainable in long term

[jonald_fyookball]

Seems like a scam to me.

They claim they have "solved the problems of Proof of Stake",
but I'm not at all convinced.

I debated them about it in this thread:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1007155.msg11012010#msg11012010

Interesting reading I think.