[ANN] NeuCoin - Easy to use, free to try, focused on micropayments - Official

[Cryptorials]

neucoin bag holder ^   NejrNECLxNZJhhDcntZgYvkb8hB27kRWCu

Oh I see, so the fact that I own a few coins means you can just call me a name and that means everything I say must be wrong. Much mature, so logic...

[tempus]

Is this kind of response at all normal for new Altcoins? Defensive BTC/other-alt holders?

Yes and yes. Well, at least its not normal but its not uncommon. At times one gets the feeling that it goes beyond just defensive holders of other alts and looks more like organized FUD campaigns (I've even heard rumours of paid fudders, although I can't confirm it). Its nearly as bad as politics sometimes.

I think its a mixture of three things:

Firstly you get people who are defensive about competition for their favourite alt. In the early days the NEU team reached out to some other coin communities like DOGE with the idea of an 'airdrop' giving free coins to the owners of those other alts, and that really seemed to get people's backs up (particularly DOGE since tipping and micropayments were kind of their thing) and seemed to coincide with the height of the venom when the official forum was almost entirely just angry hate posts.

Secondly you get a lot of idealistic people who have very 'purist' ideas about what a crypto should do and object to one being run like a start-up, kind of seeing it as the enemy impinging on their anarchic territory.

Thirdly you get a lot of immature people who buy the coins without doing any research on them, find out later on that its different to what they had thought and then shout loudly about being ripped off because of that, or because they didn't make a fortune overnight (which unfortunately is what some people expect when they start buying crypto).

You have people in this thread still going on about the distribution - everybody knew what this was going to be before the pre-sale, the reasons why were explained fully, the intended timeline for the foundation to go below 50% was provided, but yet instead of choosing whether they are interested or not and then acting accordingly they keep posting in this forum thread for month after month about how the distribution of coins is a scam. It should be clear that this is not because they have an honest opinion, but because they have an axe to grind.

1. Independently from individual intentions I believe it's good to give infos and point with the finger on weak points instead of just watching like the Neu-team tries to hide it, manipulates people and pays news-sites to hype this with weird numbers https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=944933.msg13350236#msg13350236

2. It may be kind of idealistic to have the idea a Crypto-project should add some innovation to Crypto instead just ripping Investors, yes.

3. We agree! You're speaking about those who bought it. But there are also some who have read this thread and changed their opinion months ago and were able to sell without or with just at a little loss.

4. Yes, the team said how they wanted to distribute and not just I showed that it's impossible to do it that way. Who was right? Did they distribute or did they try to support the price with buy-walls? Did they pay game-devs and community-members for work and so on, like it was planned or was I right with this: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=944933.msg12556706#msg12556706


Fact is: Those who were critics about it were right! Right? Fact is: The team broke all important promises I know of. Fact is: They are not able to handle the tech. Fact is: Now it's a private Blockchain and they want ppl to pay them to help securing it. And that wasn't the plan, right? Did they say they would switch to full PoS after some months to fuck the distribution up even more? Who stakes and isn't able to distribute? What will happen when the price rises? Will they sell into it or just sit on their billions and stake it again and again?

[rizzlarolla]

Tempus, you are right. And you always try to be fair and even handed.
neucoin "forces" trolling. there are NO good points about neucoin that I (or Dart and CO previously) can think of.

Oh I see, so the fact that I own a few coins means you can just call me a name and that means everything I say must be wrong. Much mature, so logic...

I never said you are wrong by default. Just biased. And calling others biased.
neucoin is SO bad, only a bag holder would defend it.
Or the uninformed.

[Cryptorials]

I never said you are wrong by default. Just biased. And calling others biased.
neucoin is SO bad, only a bag holder would defend it.
Or the uninformed.

Lol, I didn't even say anything to defend Neucoin, nor do I have an interest in engaging in a never-ending argument about it, especially since I'm not the shill you take me for and recognize that there are clearly problems, even if I still think there is a possibility that they could reach new people who aren't into crypto so hold onto a few coins because of that. The whole world isn't made up of bagholder shills and fuders, most of us are normal people.
 
All I did was to comment on the nature of the discussion about Neucoin. Simply posting on this thread without expressing hatred and outrage made me a target for you, which illustrates the fact that this is not a genuine discussion, because it has been hijacked by people who clearly have an axe to grind, and who are so highly motivated and persistent that they drown out any genuine conversation.

[tempus]

I never said you are wrong by default. Just biased. And calling others biased.
neucoin is SO bad, only a bag holder would defend it.
Or the uninformed.

Lol, I didn't even say anything to defend Neucoin, nor do I have an interest in engaging in a never-ending argument about it, especially since I'm not the shill you take me for and recognize that there are clearly problems, even if I still think there is a possibility that they could reach new people who aren't into crypto so hold onto a few coins because of that. The whole world isn't made up of bagholder shills and fuders, most of us are normal people.
 
All I did was to comment on the nature of the discussion about Neucoin. Simply posting on this thread without expressing hatred and outrage made me a target for you, which illustrates the fact that this is not a genuine discussion, because it has been hijacked by people who clearly have an axe to grind, and who are so highly motivated and persistent that they drown out any genuine conversation.

Whatever you may think about this thread or the people involved: It's a fact that you'll find more helpful infos here than anywhere else. And that's easy to prove because if you would read this thread and just focus on the informations you'll see that the Neucoin-desaster was predicted, underlined with arguments. And sure, not all posts are informative but under the line this thread has more value than Neucoin and I'm serious about that. Reason: It helped to safe money while Neucoin ripped those who believed in it.

And if you say now:

"I'm not the shill you take me for and recognize that there are clearly problems, even if I still think there is a possibility that they could reach new people who aren't into crypto so hold onto a few coins because of that."

I don't understand that logic, because I can't see anything good in it if there should be more unexperienced ppl who invest in this.

[Cryptorials]

Whatever you may think about this thread or the people involved: It's a fact that you'll find more helpful infos here than anywhere else. And that's easy to prove because if you would read this thread and just focus on the informations you'll see that the Neucoin-desaster was predicted, underlined with arguments. And sure, not all posts are informative but under the line this thread has more value than Neucoin and I'm serious about that. Reason: It helped to safe money while Neucoin ripped those who believed in it.

And if you say now:

"I'm not the shill you take me for and recognize that there are clearly problems, even if I still think there is a possibility that they could reach new people who aren't into crypto so hold onto a few coins because of that."

I don't understand that logic, because I can't see anything good in it if there should be more unexperienced ppl who invest in this.

Can you understand the logic of your own statement - you are saying here that as long as there is any possibility that anybody might take an interest in Neucoin you will keep up your campaign to convince them otherwise. You are not here to be unbiased or present facts, you are clearly on a personal attack mission.

[tempus]

Whatever you may think about this thread or the people involved: It's a fact that you'll find more helpful infos here than anywhere else. And that's easy to prove because if you would read this thread and just focus on the informations you'll see that the Neucoin-desaster was predicted, underlined with arguments. And sure, not all posts are informative but under the line this thread has more value than Neucoin and I'm serious about that. Reason: It helped to safe money while Neucoin ripped those who believed in it.

And if you say now:

"I'm not the shill you take me for and recognize that there are clearly problems, even if I still think there is a possibility that they could reach new people who aren't into crypto so hold onto a few coins because of that."

I don't understand that logic, because I can't see anything good in it if there should be more unexperienced ppl who invest in this.

Can you understand the logic of your own statement - you are saying here that as long as there is any possibility that anybody might take an interest in Neucoin you will keep up your campaign to convince them otherwise. You are not here to be unbiased or present facts, you are clearly on a personal attack mission.

I'm not sure what's your definition of "facts" but I would say: Something is a fact if it turns out to be true. And I don't say I'm unbiased and I don't say all of my posts are full of facts. But you won't find many posts without facts or at least informations or argumentation. And it turned out to be true.

Two questions:

1. Why not attack a project that is not legit? Or do you believe it's legit and if yes, why?
2. Do you believe that there is anybody who bought into the ICO and would not wish he would have read this thread instead of investing in NEU?

[rizzlarolla]

I'm happy for you to buy neucoin. some will.
Not really attacking you, but you will get a counter argument!
Ok, I may have been a bit tetchy.

I showed your addy. 1.7million neucoin has passed through. Worth 70 btc presale.
I'm not saying you have got 1.7million neucoin, but...

Hey, your first post was pretty much your opinion stating we here are wrong, you and neucoin are right?
As Tempus said, we show far more proof/evidence/discussion than ignorant neucoin mods.

Truce?

[indahkfi]

why solitaire racer 504 Gateway Time-out ?
solitaire racer Inconsistent program how to compete with Zynga

[Cryptorials]

I'm happy for you to buy neucoin. some will.
Not really attacking you, but you will get a counter argument!
Ok, I may have been a bit tetchy.

I showed your addy. 1.7million neucoin has passed through. Worth 70 btc presale.
I'm not saying you have got 1.7million neucoin, but...

Hey, your first post was pretty much your opinion stating we here are wrong, you and neucoin are right?
As Tempus said, we show far more proof/evidence/discussion than ignorant neucoin mods.

Truce?

The fact that you've analyzed my address' activity more than I have myself is kind of creepy. But the way you present it is the same as the way you and others here present any of the so-called 'facts' you share - a small kernel of truth taken out of context and misrepresented as meaning something it doesn't. I bought less than 1 btc in the presale, and the most I've owned was around 450k of which probably 60k was from staking and some from freebies for taking and promoting the surveys and so on - not that my personal circumstances are at all relevant.

Neucoin have made some mistakes and done some things I haven't liked, but it isn't the scam or hopeless case I see it presented as here. Unfortunately all the normal people who may want to discuss these things rather than just aggressively push an agenda, who don't have the time or interest in never-ending arguments with people who post here all day with half-truths and deliberate negative propaganda just get drowned out and disappear. And the 'ignorant necoin mods' you mention haven't been here for a long long time I don't think, probably because they couldn't take all the venomous personal attacks they were subjected to. 

[rizzlarolla]

oh bo hoo poor you.
and poor misrepresented neucoin.

Truce is off. you are an idiot.

[tempus]

(...) the same as the way you and others here present any of the so-called 'facts' you share - a small kernel of truth taken out of context and misrepresented as meaning something it doesn't.    

Any examples?

 

Neucoin have made some mistakes and done some things I haven't liked, but it isn't the scam or hopeless case I see it presented as here.

Depends on the definition of the word "Scam". I'm somebody who is very cautious with that word and for a long time I did not use it regarding Neucoin. And my reason was that there was the possibility that the team did not want to scam and recognize their big mistakes and that they maybe would pay back their Investors. One of my suggestions was a buywall at ICO-price with BTC they made in the ICO. Now I call it a scam because they did not stop with hyping and lying and trying to lead more people into buying.

And if you say it's not a scam, you should be able to give arguments. In this thread you can find a lot of arguments why it's a scam. You could rebut it if you are right.

 
Unfortunately all the normal people who may want to discuss these things rather than just aggressively push an agenda, who don't have the time or interest in never-ending arguments with people who post here all day with half-truths and deliberate negative propaganda just get drowned out and disappear. And the 'ignorant necoin mods' you mention haven't been here for a long long time I don't think, probably because they couldn't take all the venomous personal attacks they were subjected to.  

I can't speak for anybody else then myself, but I was always open for discussion and in general I'm not aggressively pushing anything and not personal in discussions. The funny thing is: There never was a discussion. Sometimes Neu-Supporters came here and said something like you - without any arguments, without more informations, without facts. And my own conclusion is: It's just not possible. It's not possible to support Neucoin in a deeper discussion because it's not a legit project.

Just to be clear: They sold Neu with lies. And just by the way: There is also evidence that there was a lot of selfbuying, so the ICO-terms never were reached. If you want to know more about it - just ask. And remember: Didn't they say there would be a Blockexplorer right from the start? And do you remember there wasn't a official Block Explorer but an un-official one?

And I made the prediction that they need some time to distribute all the billions to more addresses, because it all was in the top100. Most interesting for me was and still is: They are even unable to cheat. They make too much mistakes. The only good thing (for them of course) in Neu is: Nobody cares. If it would have more attention, like Paycoin had, they would be in big trouble.

[jonald_fyookball]

They did in fact sell this with lies, claiming innovation when none existed.  This is all documented in this thread.

[slashdevslashnull]

I think its unfair to throw around the word scam here unless you really have some evidence or just don't know what that word means.  Its not productive and you should learn to articulate your thoughts better.  By all accounts, the creators and investors are underwater.  What kind of scam is that?  Its an insult to proper scams.

Poor execution and zealous marketing speak is not a scam.  Doing things in a way you don't agree with is not a scam.

I mean, unless you are a tinfoil-hat-wearing-moon-is-a-hologram-so-how-could-we-land-there? type.   

[tempus]

I think its unfair to throw around the word scam here unless you really have some evidence or just don't know what that word means.  Its not productive and you should learn to articulate your thoughts better.  By all accounts, the creators and investors are underwater.  What kind of scam is that?  Its an insult to proper scams.

Poor execution and zealous marketing speak is not a scam.  Doing things in a way you don't agree with is not a scam.

I mean, unless you are a tinfoil-hat-wearing-moon-is-a-hologram-so-how-could-we-land-there? type.   

I agree that "poor execution and zealous marketing speak" is not necessarily an intended scam. But I think we disagree in one question, but I'm open to hear/read your view on it:

Do you think they...

1. ...acted honest?
2. ...did not lie?
3. ...delivered their promises?
4. ...are as transparent as promised?
5. ...are open for discussion?




 

[slashdevslashnull]

Do you think they...

1. ...acted honest?
2. ...did not lie?
3. ...delivered their promises?
4. ...are as transparent as promised?
5. ...are open for discussion?
 

I can't answer 1,2 and 4. Partly because I'd have to do some analysis and partly because I'm not sure I (we?) have enough info to determine the answers. Can you provide an example of something specific to get me thinking?

I may not be interpreting your question correctly, but no, not 100%.  For one, PoW ended much sooner. Some deliverables have been shaky but there is no way that I can jump to the conclusion that they intentionally misled anyone. Problems with rollout can easily be blamed on shit going wrong and people leaving. Executing big projects is hard even if you have a perfect strategy.

Are they open to discussion? Yes, I think they are to an extent or at least were at one time. If you are being fair, you have to admit that not all of the contents of this thread qualify as "discussion." I think people have their limits but at the same time I'm not delusional enough to think they executed communication perfectly.

[tempus]

Do you think they...

1. ...acted honest?
2. ...did not lie?
3. ...delivered their promises?
4. ...are as transparent as promised?
5. ...are open for discussion?
 

I can't answer 1,2 and 4. Partly because I'd have to do some analysis and partly because I'm not sure I (we?) have enough info to determine the answers. Can you provide an example of something specific to get me thinking?

I may not be interpreting your question correctly, but no, not 100%.  For one, PoW ended much sooner. Some deliverables have been shaky but there is no way that I can jump to the conclusion that they intentionally misled anyone. Problems with rollout can easily be blamed on shit going wrong and people leaving. Executing big projects is hard even if you have a perfect strategy.

Are they open to discussion? Yes, I think they are to an extent or at least were at one time. If you are being fair, you have to admit that not all of the contents of this thread qualify as "discussion." I think people have their limits but at the same time I'm not delusional enough to think they executed communication perfectly.

Some examples:

They say in Terms and Conditions:

The Company, which is solely responsible for conducting the Presale, will use the proceeds of the Presale to acquire NeuCoin Tokens from the NeuCoin Foundations immediately after the the NeuCoin Tokens are initially created and the NeuCoin System is made publicly available (the “Public Release”), expected to occur in the summer of 2015. The Company is not authorized to use the proceeds of the Presale for any other purpose. All the BTC raised in the presale will be kept in a publicly visible multisig Bitcoin address which will be published on www.neucoin.org. Private keys will be held by several members of the NeuCoin Project Team along with a representative of the Company so that the Company will not be able to transfer funds from the multisig address without the consent of the NeuCoin Project Team members. Immediately after acquiring NeuCoin Tokens from the NeuCoin Foundations, Company will distribute them to the Purchasers. If the Public Release of the NeuCoin System has not occurred by September 30, 2015 (the “Release Deadline”), the Company will refund all Purchasers their entire purchase amounts as described below. The Company will be liquidated shortly after either distributing NeuCoin Tokens or refunds to all Purchasers.

http://www.neucoin.org/en/terms_and_conditions

Did that happen? This is the address: https://blockchain.info/address/3MrNuksZ1VePU3dGiSQFiouWerJUJgDkfH


The latest transaction went to this address for example: https://blockchain.info/de/address/17khSsecZGcmCN2RWCcs3aDSUiwFqWYHBd

50% of the transaction the day before to this one: https://blockchain.info/de/address/17yHQAAVe7egQfh9TrGfWMvjamJE1vRADf

The same day a transaction to this address: https://blockchain.info/de/address/1GMCmeqFmqrbStjJJBS6VLhdcvXhHonYjv

Another one: https://blockchain.info/de/address/17u2rsETGjwhHk1iLpRKhLyxnvpnw1kXPS


(......and so on....... a lot of transactions are not easy to track, spreading into nothing over multiple addresses)


Who holds the priv-key and who is the representative by the way?



Transparency and Governance

NeuCoin will be open, accountable and ultimately controlled by coin holders. NeuCoin’s core code development, user growth programs, and projects to increase utility will be supported by three non-profit foundations based in Isle of Man: the Code, Growth and Utility foundations. All foundations are ultimately controlled by NeuCoin holders (1 NeuCoin = 1 vote), who have the power to hire, fire and set compensation for the foundations’ Council Members, and have a right of approval on annual budgets, spending priorities and other matters. This structure makes NeuCoin more decentralized and accountable than Bitcoin, Ripple or Stellar, let alone most of the anonymous alt coins out there.
http://www.neucoin.org/en/terms_and_conditions

Did that happen? Would you say the foundations are controlled by the Neucoin-Holders? Was there a voting? Coin-Holders "have a right of approval on annual budgets, spending priorities and other matters". Would you say that's true?




Or m3ndi3a, former supporter and moderator:

(...)

I joined the community and was very much active and enthusiastic. I bought in the presale and even came up with the Squirrel name- Tippy. They made me moderator and all was good and exciting. Then they started pushing back the release and then investors in the community started asking questions. Priemievalsoup was a big investor and he started asking some serious questions. Being a game developer and having some experience with releasing products, his question on why there was no testnet really struck a chord for me. I asked Sandrine and the other moderators about this, and Sandrine told me the team was doing extensive testing already, and a testnet was not needed.

Fast forward a month later to the supposed launch- they come and say they are pushing back the launch because they need more testing and are releasing a testnet to the presale investors by the end of the month. I was really set off and finally had to leave when the end of the month came, the testnet was not released to us, but they claimed they held their promise because they released to "angel investors."

(...)

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=944933.msg12574513#msg12574513


She was banned on the official forum by the way.



Or the funny fact that they did not, like promised, release a Block-Explorer right from the start! Without the unofficial one nobody would have known about the fact that >99% of all coins were in the Top 100! And that's weird because they said that there were >1000 pre-sale-Investors. But more than just 3 billion Coins in the top 100?? 

This is a screenshot from september 29:




And regarding open for discussions: This thread is full of examples for deleted posts and banned users on the official forum.

[Nogroup]

Or m3ndi3a, former supporter and moderator:

(...)

I joined the community and was very much active and enthusiastic. I bought in the presale and even came up with the Squirrel name- Tippy. They made me moderator and all was good and exciting. Then they started pushing back the release and then investors in the community started asking questions. Priemievalsoup was a big investor and he started asking some serious questions. Being a game developer and having some experience with releasing products, his question on why there was no testnet really struck a chord for me. I asked Sandrine and the other moderators about this, and Sandrine told me the team was doing extensive testing already, and a testnet was not needed.

Fast forward a month later to the supposed launch- they come and say they are pushing back the launch because they need more testing and are releasing a testnet to the presale investors by the end of the month. I was really set off and finally had to leave when the end of the month came, the testnet was not released to us, but they claimed they held their promise because they released to "angel investors."

(...)

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=944933.msg12574513#msg12574513


She was banned on the official forum by the way.

strange becuz there is a testnet configured in the source code see here: https://github.com/NeuCoin/neucoin/blob/master/src/testnet.cpp


Or the funny fact that they did not, like promised, release a Block-Explorer right from the start! Without the unofficial one nobody would have known about the fact that >99% of all coins were in the Top 100! And that's weird because they said that there were >1000 pre-sale-Investors. But more than just 3 billion Coins in the top 100??  

This is a screenshot from september 29:
http://img5.fotos-hochladen.net/uploads/neudistribuy6cnudsi5g.png

if u analyze a bit how new transactions came after everythin is coming from fundation to new address so that screenshot is notacurate also have anybody looked at how mynokoin work ? it use nokoin blockexplore weird as to what they used before if it was not released !!

[Cryptorials]

Some examples:

They say in Terms and Conditions:

The Company, which is solely responsible for conducting the Presale, will use the proceeds of the Presale to acquire NeuCoin Tokens from the NeuCoin Foundations immediately after the the NeuCoin Tokens are initially created and the NeuCoin System is made publicly available (the “Public Release”), expected to occur in the summer of 2015. The Company is not authorized to use the proceeds of the Presale for any other purpose. All the BTC raised in the presale will be kept in a publicly visible multisig Bitcoin address which will be published on www.neucoin.org. Private keys will be held by several members of the NeuCoin Project Team along with a representative of the Company so that the Company will not be able to transfer funds from the multisig address without the consent of the NeuCoin Project Team members. Immediately after acquiring NeuCoin Tokens from the NeuCoin Foundations, Company will distribute them to the Purchasers. If the Public Release of the NeuCoin System has not occurred by September 30, 2015 (the “Release Deadline”), the Company will refund all Purchasers their entire purchase amounts as described below. The Company will be liquidated shortly after either distributing NeuCoin Tokens or refunds to all Purchasers.

http://www.neucoin.org/en/terms_and_conditions

Did that happen? This is the address: https://blockchain.info/address/3MrNuksZ1VePU3dGiSQFiouWerJUJgDkfH

WTF? Yes it happened. This is not a promise to tell you exactly what they will do with every satoshi in their possession for ever more, it is an explanation of how the presale worked.

Transparency and Governance

NeuCoin will be open, accountable and ultimately controlled by coin holders. NeuCoin’s core code development, user growth programs, and projects to increase utility will be supported by three non-profit foundations based in Isle of Man: the Code, Growth and Utility foundations. All foundations are ultimately controlled by NeuCoin holders (1 NeuCoin = 1 vote), who have the power to hire, fire and set compensation for the foundations’ Council Members, and have a right of approval on annual budgets, spending priorities and other matters. This structure makes NeuCoin more decentralized and accountable than Bitcoin, Ripple or Stellar, let alone most of the anonymous alt coins out there.
http://www.neucoin.org/en/terms_and_conditions

Did that happen? Would you say the foundations are controlled by the Neucoin-Holders? Was there a voting? Coin-Holders "have a right of approval on annual budgets, spending priorities and other matters". Would you say that's true?

This is from the strategic plan, I presume? This was clearly explained to be something that would happen after a sufficient number of coins had been distributed. There was never any intention that this should have happened by now, you've just made that up.

Or the funny fact that they did not, like promised, release a Block-Explorer right from the start! Without the unofficial one nobody would have known about the fact that >99% of all coins were in the Top 100! And that's weird because they said that there were >1000 pre-sale-Investors. But more than just 3 billion Coins in the top 100?? 

This is such a minor issue that is being blown up beyond all proportion. Sometimes there are delays with some things in a software project. Its not a big deal because a) there was a block explorer at launch (the unofficial one) b) there was an official block explorer soon after launch and c) you're assertion that without it nobody would know what the initial distribution was is absurd, because even a cursory look at the most basic explanation would have told you what the distribution was going to be, and it exactly followed that plan.

Yes they acted honestly, no they did not lie.

They certainly have not been open to discussion, but that is because it would have taken several people working full-time just to answer all the FUD from trolls who don't listen when things are explained to them anyway, making any discussion an exercise in futility.

[tempus]

Some examples:

They say in Terms and Conditions:

The Company, which is solely responsible for conducting the Presale, will use the proceeds of the Presale to acquire NeuCoin Tokens from the NeuCoin Foundations immediately after the the NeuCoin Tokens are initially created and the NeuCoin System is made publicly available (the “Public Release”), expected to occur in the summer of 2015. The Company is not authorized to use the proceeds of the Presale for any other purpose. All the BTC raised in the presale will be kept in a publicly visible multisig Bitcoin address which will be published on www.neucoin.org. Private keys will be held by several members of the NeuCoin Project Team along with a representative of the Company so that the Company will not be able to transfer funds from the multisig address without the consent of the NeuCoin Project Team members. Immediately after acquiring NeuCoin Tokens from the NeuCoin Foundations, Company will distribute them to the Purchasers. If the Public Release of the NeuCoin System has not occurred by September 30, 2015 (the “Release Deadline”), the Company will refund all Purchasers their entire purchase amounts as described below. The Company will be liquidated shortly after either distributing NeuCoin Tokens or refunds to all Purchasers.

http://www.neucoin.org/en/terms_and_conditions

Did that happen? This is the address: https://blockchain.info/address/3MrNuksZ1VePU3dGiSQFiouWerJUJgDkfH

WTF? Yes it happened. This is not a promise to tell you exactly what they will do with every satoshi in their possession for ever more, it is an explanation of how the presale worked.   

The thing is that it's not even possible to verify what they do with the money! The company proceeds the presale and than they are not authorized to use proceeds of this presale for any other purpose than to buy Neucoin from three Neucoin-foundations on the isle of man - and then they want to distribute it (Neucoin). If there is no way to control that it is as if they say: Give me Bitcoin and I will use that Bitcoin to buy Neucoin from myself which I plan to sell for more Bitcoin. In fact nobody has a clue who is doing what in this game or you just forgot my question who holds the private key? And does it look like as if the ICO-Bitcoin are used for the Development? I mean it's obvious that they paid for press and for funny "price-analyses" https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=944933.msg13350236#msg13350236 , but it doesn't seem as if they would value the real development side very high or even pay for it. The basic tech is not stable and it's not what they have promised it would be! It's all about selling "something" to naive folks and that's why it's all about the price and that's also the reason why they switch to full PoS - what is also not in line with what was said before. And again: You don't know who exactly is accountable for what the foundations do or the "company" or the ICO-Bitcoin! All the nice talking of non-profit-foundations and company sounds so reputable right? In combination with all the big names but nobody seems to care about the project or am I wrong? Where are they?

Transparency and Governance

NeuCoin will be open, accountable and ultimately controlled by coin holders. NeuCoin’s core code development, user growth programs, and projects to increase utility will be supported by three non-profit foundations based in Isle of Man: the Code, Growth and Utility foundations. All foundations are ultimately controlled by NeuCoin holders (1 NeuCoin = 1 vote), who have the power to hire, fire and set compensation for the foundations’ Council Members, and have a right of approval on annual budgets, spending priorities and other matters. This structure makes NeuCoin more decentralized and accountable than Bitcoin, Ripple or Stellar, let alone most of the anonymous alt coins out there.
http://www.neucoin.org/en/terms_and_conditions

Did that happen? Would you say the foundations are controlled by the Neucoin-Holders? Was there a voting? Coin-Holders "have a right of approval on annual budgets, spending priorities and other matters". Would you say that's true?

This is from the strategic plan, I presume? This was clearly explained to be something that would happen after a sufficient number of coins had been distributed. There was never any intention that this should have happened by now, you've just made that up.

Yes, you're right. My fault. But the problem stays the same: With the money they've got from the community they are free to do whatever they want to and nobody even knows WHO exactly is accountable. But about all the technical issues and that they were never able to really distribute how it was planned you just say: "Poor execution is no scam"? Those growth foundation should have the ICO-Bitcoin and they should use those Bitcoin for the best of Neucoin if it's not a scam. That's the promise. And sure I can't know that they use it for other purposes but it's obviously that there are constant transactions from the ICO-address and it's obvious at the same time that they are not able to handle the tech or the distribution and that nearly nothing is like they've said it would be.

Or the funny fact that they did not, like promised, release a Block-Explorer right from the start! Without the unofficial one nobody would have known about the fact that >99% of all coins were in the Top 100! And that's weird because they said that there were >1000 pre-sale-Investors. But more than just 3 billion Coins in the top 100?? 

This is such a minor issue that is being blown up beyond all proportion. Sometimes there are delays with some things in a software project. Its not a big deal because a) there was a block explorer at launch (the unofficial one) b) there was an official block explorer soon after launch and c) you're assertion that without it nobody would know what the initial distribution was is absurd, because even a cursory look at the most basic explanation would have told you what the distribution was going to be, and it exactly followed that plan.

Oh sure, the unofficial was there a few days after launch so they held their promise? That's kind of funny. But there is still no explanation why >99% of all coins were in the top100 and that for a long time!. How is that possible with >1000 people who bought into the presale?

Yes they acted honestly, no they did not lie.

Sure. ;-)

   
They certainly have not been open to discussion, but that is because it would have taken several people working full-time just to answer all the FUD from trolls who don't listen when things are explained to them anyway, making any discussion an exercise in futility.

One question: Is Neucoin what you believed it would be when you bought it? Don't you believe it would have been better to read this thread? Because you can say whatever you want, that they acted honest and that we here are Fudders and Trolls - but under the line we were right. What I said in many posts and with a lot of calculations about the economical side of neucoin turned out to be true and my predictions were not like betting. It was obvious. And if that was obvious for a little light like me, it should have been obvious for professionals like those who are behind Neucoin, right? But they planned it like this! Or maybe they are just not professionals? Maybe they just did everything to give the impression of a professional and reputable project? Because if yes, than you obviously did not buy what you believed to buy. And if yes, you did that because you believed them. If that's what you call "honest" and just "poor execution but not a scam"... okay. But they have your money and you don't even know who is accountable and what they do with that.