Bullion (CBX) 'the Digital Precious Metal' | 2019 Roadmap published

[FiniteRed]

Hey CBX, I am being a bit slow here - how does backing CBX with preshious metal work exactly? If I purchase coins backed with silver do I also get the silver?

David

[raizor]

Hey CBX, I am being a bit slow here - how does backing CBX with preshious metal work exactly? If I purchase coins backed with silver do I also get the silver?

David

Hey FR, there's a reply from me to BTCat a page or so back. That might help clear things up a little. Please chime in with any thoughts. I'd like to get a good discussion going on this as I'm still excited about where this could lead. The idea came from BitcoinFX 

[BTCat]

I must admit, I had trouble getting my head around this initially.

I'm still there but it's fun to play with the idea.

What I can't understand is why would I purchase CBX and then purchase some silver on top. It feels like paying twice.
Wouldn't this work better if there is an option to back someone else's CBX.

Example: I will back 1,000 CBX that belong to Raizor for 1 year with 1 oz Silver. If he choose to sell his CBX before the year ends then the Silver will start to back another persons 1,000 CBX. If Raizor holds his coins for the full year he may claim the Silver.

That would be an incentive to hold them. Raizor could return the favor and back a 1,000 from me for similar value.  

It would require trust or it needs to have legal backing with a contract. 

I would like to add to the theory that once the 1 oz Silver is used to back someone's coins, the person who would receive it after a year should use that reward to back someone else's coins.
That way the commodities stay in roulation and the total amount only grows as more people start to participate.

[BitcoinFX]

Hey CBX, I am being a bit slow here - how does backing CBX with preshious metal work exactly? If I purchase coins backed with silver do I also get the silver?

David

No.

It is not really possible to 'buy' backed CBX as the action of backing means that the CBX becomes uncirculated.

~ The only way that buying backed CBX becomes possible would be if you purchased the wallets corresponding private key and the same physical bullion from the signed owner and both parties signed a new statement of ownership / transfer. N.B. that the buyer would then need to move the funds and re-sign for security, thus rendering the said transaction pointless.

The basis of this is that all CBX on crypto exchanges would therefore become un-backed and can therefore be defined as circulated.

Against the total CBX money supply (market capitalization) it will be possible to track exactly how much CBX is circulated vs uncirculated.

[BitcoinFX]

I would like to add to the theory that once the 1 oz Silver is used to back someone's coins, the person who would receive it after a year should use that reward to back someone else's coins.
That way the commodities stay in roulation and the total amount only grows as more people start to participate.

An interesting theory indeed BTCat.

Although, it cannot really work like that in my honest opinion (unless I misunderstand you).

When the CBX from a balance is spent you are effectively breaking the contract of the Signed statement with yourself. This happens automatically if the CBX balance is spent below the backed statement of proof-of-value. However, it does not prevent you from staking the existing balance and/or spending the interest or the balance that remains above the backed quantity.

What you are describing here I think is something similar to a derivative ? https://wikipedia.org/wiki/Derivative_(finance) - which is not a principal of 'sound money' or 'honest money' and should be viewed as the opposite of what we would seek to achieve here.

How I personally envisage this working in practice is that when an individual might consider their backing to be of a lower value against the total network value, they will simply re-back their holdings and create a new statement. This potentially adds 'value' at the same time as some individuals would most likely re-back with more CBX and/or more physical Bullion. Remembering that their is only so much CBX in circulation to be backed (or uncirculated CBX to be re-backed)!

It is also why we should completely avoid and in fact do not need to set a currency peg against the gold and/or silver price in dollars etc.,

A Value Network determines the actual price through price discovery and free market valuations in this regard.

[raizor]

There is also a possibility to incorporate the backing into PoSP (our new staking algorithm) in future. The first thing that comes to mind is the ability to reward a higher percentage of the unclaimed network stake to CBX being staked when that CBX is physically backed. This could be a simple, across the board (backed-so-pay-extra-stake) payment or something more tailored that increases the stake payment in line with the value of the assets backing the CBX.

[BitcoinFX]

About identity:

The Basics Of A Bitcoin-Based Global Identity System
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xZC98s4paYY

This guy has a lot more interesting video's, check his channel.

Smart Contracts & Bitcoin's Big Bang of Disruption
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4nOfHpOFhN8

Good stuff.

Some of these concepts I really like, others not so much. I need to re-watch these and make some notes.

[BitcoinFX]

There is also a possibility to incorporate the backing into PoSP (our new staking algorithm) in future. The first thing that comes to mind is the ability to reward a higher percentage of the unclaimed network stake to CBX being staked when that CBX is physically backed. This could be a simple, across the board (backed-so-pay-extra-stake) payment or something more tailored that increases the stake payment in line with the value of the assets backing the CBX.

Yes. An incentivized 'backing' model through interest is certainly a possibility.

Is it necessary though ? Does it over complicate everything ?

[raizor]

There is also a possibility to incorporate the backing into PoSP (our new staking algorithm) in future. The first thing that comes to mind is the ability to reward a higher percentage of the unclaimed network stake to CBX being staked when that CBX is physically backed. This could be a simple, across the board (backed-so-pay-extra-stake) payment or something more tailored that increases the stake payment in line with the value of the assets backing the CBX.

Yes. An incentivized 'backing' model through interest is certainly a possibility.

Is it necessary though ? Does it over complicate everything ?

I think it plays nicely with the idea of encoding the backing information into the blockchain. This would allow individual CBX to be queried and tracked, so each CBX in effect has a 'backing' history in addition to a 'transaction' history. This information could be used by the PoSP algorithm to incentivize backing. I think encouraging backing in this way, at least in the outset, will be beneficial. If we do go down this road and fully embrace the asset backing concept,  I see it being a big change in direction for CBX. IMHO, that direction fits perfectly with Crypto Bullion's original concept, but it will need to be something that the CBX community agrees on.

[BitcoinFX]

There is also a possibility to incorporate the backing into PoSP (our new staking algorithm) in future. The first thing that comes to mind is the ability to reward a higher percentage of the unclaimed network stake to CBX being staked when that CBX is physically backed. This could be a simple, across the board (backed-so-pay-extra-stake) payment or something more tailored that increases the stake payment in line with the value of the assets backing the CBX.

Yes. An incentivized 'backing' model through interest is certainly a possibility.

Is it necessary though ? Does it over complicate everything ?

I think it plays nicely with the idea of encoding the backing information into the blockchain. This would allow individual CBX to be queried and tracked, so each CBX in effect has a 'backing' history in addition to a 'transaction' history. This information could be used by the PoSP algorithm to incentivize backing. I think encouraging backing in this way, at least in the outset, will be beneficial. If we do go down this road and fully embrace the asset backing concept,  I see it being a big change in direction for CBX. IMHO, that direction fits perfectly with Crypto Bullion's original concept, but it will need to be something that the CBX community agrees on.

Indeed. This requires community participation and > data from said participation.

I'm really trying to get members of The Silver Forum to start using Crypto Bullion and to try backing some CBX with precious metals that they own. I have a post offering some CBX in their private members lounge. In the main they see this as a bit of a learning curve, although have not rejected the concept and remain open to the possibilities with this.

[raizor]

There is also a possibility to incorporate the backing into PoSP (our new staking algorithm) in future. The first thing that comes to mind is the ability to reward a higher percentage of the unclaimed network stake to CBX being staked when that CBX is physically backed. This could be a simple, across the board (backed-so-pay-extra-stake) payment or something more tailored that increases the stake payment in line with the value of the assets backing the CBX.

Yes. An incentivized 'backing' model through interest is certainly a possibility.

Is it necessary though ? Does it over complicate everything ?

I think it plays nicely with the idea of encoding the backing information into the blockchain. This would allow individual CBX to be queried and tracked, so each CBX in effect has a 'backing' history in addition to a 'transaction' history. This information could be used by the PoSP algorithm to incentivize backing. I think encouraging backing in this way, at least in the outset, will be beneficial. If we do go down this road and fully embrace the asset backing concept,  I see it being a big change in direction for CBX. IMHO, that direction fits perfectly with Crypto Bullion's original concept, but it will need to be something that the CBX community agrees on.

Indeed. This requires community participation and > data from said participation.

I'm really trying to get members of The Silver Forum to start using Crypto Bullion and to try backing some CBX with precious metals that they own. I have a post offering some CBX in their private members lounge. In the main they see this as a bit of a learning curve, although have not rejected the concept and remain open to the possibilities with this.

Perhaps we should consider the experience from the perspective of someone totally new to crypto. There's a lot for someone to get their head around, and some simplifications to the wallet could pay dividends in terms of gently introducing them without bamboozling them. Perhaps if the wallet defaulted to a 'simple' mode, but allowed advanced users to to select 'advanced' or 'expert' modes which would give them more wallet functionality. I'm thinking along the lines of how Armory handles this. Having the client auto-connect to a central server where it pulls down the latest bootstrap and config files automatically would also be great. I think the ease-of-use payoff far outweighs any concerns of centralization. As if sign the data on the server and ship the associated public key inside the wallet, we could authenticate the data too. I think addressing barriers to entry is worth some thought in addition to all the great new ideas we're coming up with. On this note, if anyone has any feedback to share, perhaps from introducing a non-technical friend or family member to cryptocurrency software, that insight would be very useful. Thank you

[FiniteByDesign]

Herewith, the basic CBX Proof-of-Value Network Certification document that I used to back some of my own CBX holdings with physical sliver.

- https://mega.nz/#!2pUlADxA!-VUrzNkNL8tUvgHKwMYyOuqwi8-TS0qhD5RGais8NOU - CBX-Proof-of-Value-Network-Certification.odt

- https://mega.nz/#!j1FSyQIL!BmdMcDaIOwjsoaBFcSYaW92j5OHXbpEQ8MtcFpTLgdo - CBX-Proof-of-Value-Network-Certification.doc

See: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=951753.msg11844494#msg11844494

If others start doing this then we have some interesting data to work from, at the very least. CBX will also have a thread topic that looks rather shiny to potential investors! The concept can also be presented in a new thread and eventually be developed into a dedicated forum and/or website perhaps. I have joined a couple of silver and gold investment forums with the intention of presenting this concept to them.

This is amazing! I will take some time this weekend to back some of my CBX holdings with some silver and gold that I have and provide feedback. Hopefully we can get a page on the website (forum section would be better if CBX had one) that provides a step by step for this so someone doesn't have to dig through the thread for instructions?

[BitcoinFX]

Herewith, the basic CBX Proof-of-Value Network Certification document that I used to back some of my own CBX holdings with physical sliver.

- https://mega.nz/#!2pUlADxA!-VUrzNkNL8tUvgHKwMYyOuqwi8-TS0qhD5RGais8NOU - CBX-Proof-of-Value-Network-Certification.odt

- https://mega.nz/#!j1FSyQIL!BmdMcDaIOwjsoaBFcSYaW92j5OHXbpEQ8MtcFpTLgdo - CBX-Proof-of-Value-Network-Certification.doc

See: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=951753.msg11844494#msg11844494

If others start doing this then we have some interesting data to work from, at the very least. CBX will also have a thread topic that looks rather shiny to potential investors! The concept can also be presented in a new thread and eventually be developed into a dedicated forum and/or website perhaps. I have joined a couple of silver and gold investment forums with the intention of presenting this concept to them.

This is amazing! I will take some time this weekend to back some of my CBX holdings with some silver and gold that I have and provide feedback. Hopefully we can get a page on the website (forum section would be better if CBX had one) that provides a step by step for this so someone doesn't have to dig through the thread for instructions?

Good show FiniteByDesign,

Hopefully folks will also start backing with physical Platinum, Palladium and Copper as well. Backing with rare coins and historical items would also generate further interest perhaps!

I have started working on a guide .pdf for The Silver Forum. However, this same document should be submitted for community review and also approved first by the CBX dev. team.

I'm thinking that this set of documents / data should probably be under something similar to a Creative Commons License:

- https://creativecommons.org/choose

- https://creativecommons.org/freeworks

- https://creativecommons.org/publicdomain/

Think: "Money as Art"   

[BitcoinFX]

Proof-of-Concept - Back-to-Basics - 2nd Backing

- https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=951753.msg11844494#msg11844494

CBX Proof-of-Value Network Certification - Building a Decentralized Value Network using the CBX blockchain.

Entitled: Shield and Spear Paradox - "What happens when an unstoppable force meets an immovable object?" - https://wikipedia.org/wiki/Irresistible_force_paradox

CBX Wallet Address:

Code:

5jSNbAr8WwZfokPwoARez5gkt6rQVcxFvX

http://blockexplorer.cryptobullion.io/a/5jSNbAr8Ww

Message:

Code:

I BitcoinFX hereby back 0.000001 CBX with 1/10 Gram 24K Pure .9999 Gold Maple Leaf Wafer Aurum ZZ53550.

Should I divest either my CBX and/or physical bullion holding then this statement is automatically considered null and void within the CBX Value Network.

I hereby endeavour to provide a separate notification should I divest this personal holding.

Verify Message:

Code:

ILCxgAOTn2f91qLbKVvQynElQ8UYs8iMzbuCZl7op2jZZLKZdz9ILGn/oHGpDxm5pCHpc4d7qaXZSXSWpklVmxQ=

N.B. This now 'backed' wallet address currently holds 0.001001 CBX. As 0.001 CBX is the minimum transaction fee the backed 0.000001 CBX is most likely absorbed as an 'Over Limit Transaction Fee' if spending from this address, ofc without receipt of additional funds to the address. Hence it remains an 'immovable object'? 

1/10 Gram 24K Pure .9999 Gold Maple Leaf Wafer Aurum is the lowest weight (certified) physical bullion that I could find to back the 'lowest' (common) denomination of CBX with.  
 

[snatchmonkey]

Great ideas guys, this looks really interesting. I'm still wrapping my noggin around it but I think it is starting to sink in.

These really are the kind of ideas that we need to be exploring as a crypto precious metal, so I shall be joining this experiment in due course. Props to BitcoinFX for pushing this one forward, nice work.

[lab rat hoax]

The CBX " decentralized pm comex" .... With the lynchpin of verification ,
However it would be set up, could be seen as more legitimate than the comex itself,
...... I've heard as many as 400 paper contracts per ounce of physical metal.
Now if CBX could be verified as being 1:1 hmmmmmm
Well, " they" wouldn't like that too much now would they 

[lab rat hoax]

Mutual assured transaction, deduction, constriction....

Collateralized asset certification ( as opposed to collateralized Debt obligation)

No fractional reserves, never in the red, always in the black
The blockchain cannot lie, and won't let you either
No honor among thieves ( bankers )
"as good as gold".   Or whatever it is

Excuse me, just random thoughts while at work today

( so....... How WOULD this work anyway ?)

Must be " trustless"

[BitcoinFX]

...

Collateralized asset certification ( as opposed to collateralized Debt obligation)

...

Indeed. The potential is really great here. Its a concept for 'sound money'.

Lots of possibilities to be discusses both with the CBX core team and with the community.

The most important thing right now is for people to start certification of their own holdings. Initial data is required to make progress.

We can't initialize a decentralized network, unless more people decide to participate. 

[lab rat hoax]

To incentivize without compromising the integrity
This is the puzzle
What other models could we look to for this ?

[lab rat hoax]

Texas Gold Depository To Circumvent Federal Reserve System; Will Accept Bitcoin

http://www.hngn.com/articles/110000/20150716/texas-gold-depository-will-circumvent-federal-reserve-system-and-accept-bitcoin.htm