[DASH/XDN/XMR/SDC] Comparison between the most known anonymous coins (MUST READ)

[illodin]

Firstly, if the cryptography is compromised the least of my worries is remaining anonymous; you would have alot of other things to worry about.
Secondly, there is something called "stealth address" oh and of-course if that cryptography is broken well then sir you have more more to worry about than remaining anonymous.
Thirdly, see 1 and 2 and oh yeah why not send a note to Satoshi about it whilst you was as it about how dumb his idea was of creating a crypto currency.

That is a very common fallacy. Or maybe you just have nothing to hide?

When the cryptography securing on chain anonymity is broken, everything in there will be revealed. New algorithms will be implemented to secure everything else from future attacks like your coins so they can't be stolen, but what has been put into the chain will be there and can't be made anymore secure.

You are missing the point again ... when you cannot find any weaknesses is the design of both CN/Shadow you have to resort to breaking the one thing which fundamentally makes crypto currencies secure.

But if you want to play this game lets play.

For arguments sake lets say ECDSA is broken ... so now for every address that has ever made a transaction we can derive the private key.
So as a average crypto user; I could simple import this private key into my wallet and reindex. Voila! I now have every transaction that address every made. Good luck with your dual network or whatever you call it as simple chain analysis will reveal all!

Now try doing that with a solution that uses ring sigs and stealth address. You have to break a single algo to deanonymize DRK and yet would have to break multiple to have the same effect on CN/Shadow.

^ see how your logic is flawed! just like the masternode design.

Darksend does not reuse addresses.

[1714552157]

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[1714552157]

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[illodin]

"With on chain anonymity everything is in one database. Forever. With off chain anonymity no one has all the information."

Not true, you can see look at the blockchain and see the mixings happening and if you take the time and can unravel the "randomization", you might be able to identify the reciever and sender(Since it is coinjoin) . Cryptonote coins protect against blockchain anaylsis, unlike other coins(Darkcoin).

Take the time and can unravel the "randomization" - well that's what it's designed to prevent. It removes the link from inputs to outputs. There is no correlation in the blockchain anymore.

"How do you know those 100+ are actually different people? They could all be NSA."

That arguement could be used for any coin or any item online, including Bitcoin, Darkcoin, Google, Facebook, etc. Not very practical.

Well you brought it up so that's why.

" 1 Darkcoin is divisible by 100,000,000. They won't run out."

That doesn't matter as all altcoins besides Bitcoin as of now have low prices per coin, making denominations almost irrelevant. That's why you need as much coins as you can to be on the markets, not locked up in masternodes taking liquidity away.

What does that even mean? 

[ffmad]

please add BBR to your comparison chart. It should be noted that for CryptoNote based coins a minimum mixin should be used for each transaction. BBR requires this while it is optional for other CryptoNote coins:

http://www.slideshare.net/boolberry/boolberry-solves-cryptonoteflaws-37055246?next_slideshow=1

Sorry, but with current state of Boolberry (not even in top 100 marketcap - no development since months) and the few differences with XMR or XDN, it doesn't seem to be useful to put Boolberry in the comparison

[gnargnar]

 
that is a biaised "comparison". goal = promo for shadowcoin.
 
i like how the subject say "...the most known..."  like, is SDC really that known?

where is navajo? where is stealthcoin?  and there are others too...

[Joshuar]

"With on chain anonymity everything is in one database. Forever. With off chain anonymity no one has all the information."

Not true, you can see look at the blockchain and see the mixings happening and if you take the time and can unravel the "randomization", you might be able to identify the reciever and sender(Since it is coinjoin) . Cryptonote coins protect against blockchain anaylsis, unlike other coins(Darkcoin).

Take the time and can unravel the "randomization" - well that's what it's designed to prevent. It removes the link from inputs to outputs. There is no correlation in the blockchain anymore.

"How do you know those 100+ are actually different people? They could all be NSA."

That arguement could be used for any coin or any item online, including Bitcoin, Darkcoin, Google, Facebook, etc. Not very practical.

Well you brought it up so that's why.

" 1 Darkcoin is divisible by 100,000,000. They won't run out."

That doesn't matter as all altcoins besides Bitcoin as of now have low prices per coin, making denominations almost irrelevant. That's why you need as much coins as you can to be on the markets, not locked up in masternodes taking liquidity away.

What does that even mean?  

I meant it's unfeasible to think that the NSA is everyone out there but yourself(Which is impossible, they are no omnipresent, lol). The 100 was just a random number, it could be even 20,000, etc etc, which is one of the beauties of Monero/ring signatures/cryptonote.

Ok, ill your word on the inputs being separated from the outputs

Denominations are almost irrelevant at this stage, since most people use the term "1 Darkcoin", not "1 Darkoshi etc". This is because the coin has a relatively low price, and using denominations would make the price of one coin even "lower", which is unnessecary. That's why taking darkcoins out of the markets and stocking them up on masternodes is such a bad idea, unless you plan for Darkcoin to be used solely as a commodity.

[dasource]

Firstly, if the cryptography is compromised the least of my worries is remaining anonymous; you would have alot of other things to worry about.
Secondly, there is something called "stealth address" oh and of-course if that cryptography is broken well then sir you have more more to worry about than remaining anonymous.
Thirdly, see 1 and 2 and oh yeah why not send a note to Satoshi about it whilst you was as it about how dumb his idea was of creating a crypto currency.

That is a very common fallacy. Or maybe you just have nothing to hide?

When the cryptography securing on chain anonymity is broken, everything in there will be revealed. New algorithms will be implemented to secure everything else from future attacks like your coins so they can't be stolen, but what has been put into the chain will be there and can't be made anymore secure.

You are missing the point again ... when you cannot find any weaknesses is the design of both CN/Shadow you have to resort to breaking the one thing which fundamentally makes crypto currencies secure.

But if you want to play this game lets play.

For arguments sake lets say ECDSA is broken ... so now for every address that has ever made a transaction we can derive the private key.
So as a average crypto user; I could simple import this private key into my wallet and reindex. Voila! I now have every transaction that address every made. Good luck with your dual network or whatever you call it as simple chain analysis will reveal all!

Now try doing that with a solution that uses ring sigs and stealth address. You have to break a single algo to deanonymize DRK and yet would have to break multiple to have the same effect on CN/Shadow.

^ see how your logic is flawed! just like the masternode design.

Darksend does not reuse addresses.

And that is all you can say? whether it uses or not is irrelevant ... I can de-anonymize 100% of the network for all completed transactions. Every time you make a new transaction because I know the previous history I can also accurate analyze it. That was based on your/drk logic.

Regardless I like the way you answered the one part that suited you.
The point is "You have to break a single algo to deanonymize DRK and yet would have to break multiple to have the same effect on CN/Shadow" and that is ignoring the design flaws such as 92% of your MN reside at 9 different ASNs etc etc etc

I look forward to the day a cryptographer has anything good to say about the DRKs MN design ... IMO never will happen!

[ffmad]

that is a biaised "comparison". goal = promo for shadowcoin.
 
i like how the subject say "...the most known..."  like, is SDC really that known?

where is navajo? where is stealthcoin?  and there are others too...

Please, Stealthcoin is not even anonymous. Could you tell me what makes it anonymous ?  

For Navajo I don't think anyone have seen anything until now. It will be added if it proves its tech for some weeks.

This comparison can be perfected, but there is no reason to put coins that don't have the tech.

[illodin]

Firstly, if the cryptography is compromised the least of my worries is remaining anonymous; you would have alot of other things to worry about.
Secondly, there is something called "stealth address" oh and of-course if that cryptography is broken well then sir you have more more to worry about than remaining anonymous.
Thirdly, see 1 and 2 and oh yeah why not send a note to Satoshi about it whilst you was as it about how dumb his idea was of creating a crypto currency.

That is a very common fallacy. Or maybe you just have nothing to hide?

When the cryptography securing on chain anonymity is broken, everything in there will be revealed. New algorithms will be implemented to secure everything else from future attacks like your coins so they can't be stolen, but what has been put into the chain will be there and can't be made anymore secure.

You are missing the point again ... when you cannot find any weaknesses is the design of both CN/Shadow you have to resort to breaking the one thing which fundamentally makes crypto currencies secure.

But if you want to play this game lets play.

For arguments sake lets say ECDSA is broken ... so now for every address that has ever made a transaction we can derive the private key.
So as a average crypto user; I could simple import this private key into my wallet and reindex. Voila! I now have every transaction that address every made. Good luck with your dual network or whatever you call it as simple chain analysis will reveal all!

Now try doing that with a solution that uses ring sigs and stealth address. You have to break a single algo to deanonymize DRK and yet would have to break multiple to have the same effect on CN/Shadow.

^ see how your logic is flawed! just like the masternode design.

Darksend does not reuse addresses.

And that is all you can say? whether it uses or not is irrelevant ... I can de-anonymize 100% of the network for all completed transactions. Every time you make a new transaction because I know the previous history I can also accurate analyze it. That was based on your/drk logic.

Regardless I like the way you answered the one part that suited you.
The point is "You have to break a single algo to deanonymize DRK and yet would have to break multiple to have the same effect on CN/Shadow" and that is ignoring the design flaws such as 92% of your MN reside at 9 different ASNs etc etc etc

I look forward to the day a cryptographer has anything good to say about the DRKs MN design ... IMO never will happen!

I buy Darkcoins from a party that is KYC compliant, and transfer them to my wallet address A. Now the address A can be linked to me.

Next I put them through the Darksend mixing process, and now instead of having coins in address A, I have coins in addresses B1, ..., B10 for example. Then I proceed to spend the money in address B5 by sending it to a public donation address of WikiLeaks.

However, you strongly oppose WikiLeaks and everyone who supports it, and want to know who that B5 is. You import private key of the address B5, and then what?

[Macno]

I buy Darkcoins from a party that is KYC compliant, and transfer them to my wallet address A. Now the address A can be linked to me.

Next I put them through the Darksend mixing process, and now instead of having coins in address A, I have coins in addresses B1, ..., B10 for example. Then I proceed to spend the money in address B5 by sending it to ya public donation address of WikiLeaks.

Later when you find out she's been doing business you get angry and try to find out who's been paying her. You import private key of the address B5, and then what?

The part with his xxx was completely unecessary.
I am a DRK/Dash-investor and I enjoy this thread and the discussion, please stay on topic.

[iCEBREAKER]

I look forward to the day a cryptographer has anything good to say about the DRKs MN design ... IMO never will happen!

Be ↄareful, the ↄult of Darshↄoin uses Scientology's 'Attack the Attacker' strategy against its ↄritics.   

Dark just renamed to Dash. Its still a bitcoin codebase covered with anon confetti

QFT.

[illodin]

The part with his momma was completely unecessary.
I am a DRK/Dash-investor and I enjoy this thread and the discussion, please stay on topic.

I just can't resist momma jokes for some reason. It was inappropriate, I made a mistake and I apologize. Sometimes when spending too much time on this forum it's easy to forget there are also civilized people reading. I edited my post and hope you will edit the quote as well.

[dasource]

I buy Darkcoins from a party that is KYC compliant, and transfer them to my wallet address A. Now the address A can be linked to me.

Next I put them through the Darksend mixing process, and now instead of having coins in address A, I have coins in addresses B1, ..., B10 for example. Then I proceed to spend the money in address B5 by sending it to your momma for her sexual services.

Later when you find out she's been doing business you get angry and try to find out who's been paying her. You import private key of the address B5, and then what?

The part with his momma was completely unecessary.
I am a DRK/Dash-investor and I enjoy this thread and the discussion, please stay on topic.

It is okay, children do that since they know I am showing clear flaws in its design.
He is frustrated he is bag holding a technology that has little future outside of the pumps organized by the mass instamine and early adopters..

[Este Nuno]

Sorry, but with current state of Boolberry (not even in top 100 marketcap - no development since months) and the few differences with XMR or XDN, it doesn't seem to be useful to put Boolberry in the comparison

Unlinkable transaction upgrade to CryptoNote and blockchain bloat reduction are probably the two biggest upgrades to any CryptoNote currency so far. XMR has probably done a bunch of stuff too but I can't think of a specific thing off the top of my head that could be more important than those two upgrades. XMR devs plan to do their own versions of these upgrades down the line, but they have a lot on their plate so I wouldn't expect them anytime soon.

CryptoZoidberg is still around. He's done a lot of work and it's a bit silly that you would dismiss that and have the balls to put Ducknote above BBR in relevance.

[Macno]

I buy Darkcoins from a party that is KYC compliant, and transfer them to my wallet address A. Now the address A can be linked to me.

Next I put them through the Darksend mixing process, and now instead of having coins in address A, I have coins in addresses B1, ..., B10 for example. Then I proceed to spend the money in address B5 by sending it to Wikileaks.

Later when you find out she's been doing business you get angry and try to find out who's been paying her. You import private key of the address B5, and then what?

The part with his momma was completely unecessary.
I am a DRK/Dash-investor and I enjoy this thread and the discussion, please stay on topic.

It is okay, children do that since they know I am showing clear flaws in its design.
He is frustrated he is bag holding a technology that has little future outside of the pumps organized by the mass instamine and early adopters..

@Illodin: edited and thanks for your reply.
@dasource: great, now you are the one picking up an unnecessary fight...pretty childish, since illodin even apologized. I`m interested in the "technology that has little future" part, the instamine case is settled imho (and it is FUD regurgitating it).

[P3RS3US]

I buy Darkcoins from a party that is KYC compliant, and transfer them to my wallet address A. Now the address A can be linked to me.

Next I put them through the Darksend mixing process, and now instead of having coins in address A, I have coins in addresses B1, ..., B10 for example. Then I proceed to spend the money in address B5 by sending it to your momma for her sexual services.

Later when you find out she's been doing business you get angry and try to find out who's been paying her. You import private key of the address B5, and then what?

The part with his momma was completely unecessary.
I am a DRK/Dash-investor and I enjoy this thread and the discussion, please stay on topic.

It is okay, children do that since they know I am showing clear flaws in its design.
He is frustrated he is bag holding a technology that has little future outside of the pumps organized by the mass instamine and early adopters..

@Illodin: edited and thanks for your reply.
@dasource: great, now you are the one picking up an unnecessary fight...pretty childish, since illodin even apologized. I`m interested in the "technology that has little future" part, the instamine case is settled imho (and it is FUD regurgitating it).

Bear in mind there is a bit of history here.
Nevertheless I know dasource to be a gentlmen and I'm sure he'll get back to his well explained technical position.

dasoure, by the way, is a member of the Shadow Dev Team and is therefor intimately involved in the project and well-suited to explain the technical aspects of it.

This thread is getting better and better in my opinion. Sure there's FUD here and there but overall a debate IS happening. Unusual in crypto. Keep it up!

[dasource]

Macno, no-one is picking a fight. I am stating a fact... "children" resort to using momma jokes when they get frustrated. I have yet to meet a adult that does that.

Secondly, IMO in a world where decentralisation and cryptography secure technology exists there is no room for DRK MNs

Thirdly, Instamine; In your opinion but not mine and many others in the know.

Lastly, to answer the question in hand ... the accusation was that a cryptographically secured anonymous transactions are flawed (this argument is a lame attempt from the DRK camp since its the only weakness they can think of) ... I showed that if a crypto algo such as ECDSA was compromised it would cause more damage to DarkSend and DRK than it would to for example Shadow (you still have ring sigs and stealth address to work your way through).

[illodin]

I showed that if a crypto algo such as ECDSA was compromised it would cause more damage to DarkSend and DRK than it would to for example Shadow.

I'm no cryptography expert or part of any dev team so could you please explain that example I gave.

[dasource]

I showed that if a crypto algo such as ECDSA was compromised it would cause more damage to DarkSend and DRK than it would to for example Shadow.

I'm no cryptography expert or part of any dev team so could you please explain that example I gave.

Firstly I am not cryptography expert or ever claimed to be.

Secondly I have already answered this ... if ECDSA is cracked all your DRK funds, private keys, transactions are mine.
If ECDSA is cracked then only SDC funds, private keys and SDC transactions are mine. SDT transactions i.e. all anonymous transactions are still 100% anonymous and secure.

Now tell me who has been hurt more as a currency?
But this is only part of the problem with DRK MN design; I am directly answering your question in relation to "cryptographically secured anonymous transactions are flawed"

Fact is a cracked crypto algo in the example I posted is far worse for DRK than it is for Shadow (as stated above you have to go through multiple layers).

[ffmad]

Instamine

derp herp http://www.devtome.com/doku.php?id=a_massive_investigation_of_instamines_and_fastmines_for_the_top_alt_coins#darkcoin

heres the summary: XMR = genuine anonymous crypto, XDN/SDC/DRK(DASH) = scam

did you know lying is a sin.

I don't see SDC into that list ... And saying it's a scam is insulting to all the people that have worked a lot on this project.

[deliveryman]

DRKs anon system is too slow to function. SDC is instant. I believe the only instant one.