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Author Topic: ASICMINER: Entering the Future of ASIC Mining by Inventing It  (Read 3885596 times)
keystroke
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March 15, 2013, 03:16:56 AM
 #2361

As a shareholder I wouldn't mind voting my shares to put ASICMINER on the BTC Guild donation queue for some period of time. I think this would be a decent thing for us to do to help the pool owner. It would be good will for ASICMINER and show the world how the Bitcoin community sticks together. Is anyone else interested? Shareholder replies only please.

"The difference between a castle and a prison is only a question of who holds the keys."
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The forum strives to allow free discussion of any ideas. All policies are built around this principle. This doesn't mean you can post garbage, though: posts should actually contain ideas, and these ideas should be argued reasonably.
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March 15, 2013, 03:22:43 AM
 #2362

I will rephrase this..
I believe in Darwin..
Either make yourself useful or die.
Basically asicminer is not very different from a fpga farm, they wont be here long unless they will prove themselves useful.
They were the first, congrats (it is second time i do congrats them, check my posts), but in the long run if you do not integrate, you wont survive.
Except than increasing difficulty, what else did you do for btc ecosystem?
BTCguild is missing 1250 BTC, did you donated 1 btc for it?
You can keep your distance, you may consider you did your job since you donate 5%, but in one month bfl will be here, and I don't like them (actaully fu them too),  you think you will still be here kicking?
Either bind with ecosystem or be gone, and this is scientific (if you want to go in details, give me few days and i'll provide papers.. Smiley )


If you're a shareholder of ASICMINER, just use the dividend from the shares to donate anything you want. Please do not force a company into donation. This is not the best practice in corporate governance.

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March 15, 2013, 03:29:36 AM
 #2363

If you're a shareholder of ASICMINER, just use the dividend from the shares to donate anything you want. Please do not force a company into donation. This is not the best practice in corporate governance.
this.

It's unfortunate that this happened. But it's part of the operational risk which relies with running a pool. The only reason for bitfountain to return anything is if they were pulling money from the hotwallet during the time of the incident. The pool operator may decide to increase fees to compensate for the increased risk, but then  bitfountain has to reevaluate the cost/benefit of putting the hashing power onto btcguild.

The ASICMINER Project https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=99497.0
"The way you solve things is by making it politically profitable for the wrong people to do the right thing.", Milton Friedman
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March 15, 2013, 03:34:03 AM
 #2364


By early April the next batch of finished devices will be available for deploying. At that time we will have a full team for installing and maintainance. If we get the 60TH/s online (conservative) in late April, and the hashrate of the full network from that time is 200TH/s which linearly increases to 1,000TH/s in late December. (200+1000)/2 = 600. So we will have 10% in average of the full network from late April to late December. That translates to about 88,000 Bitcoins total mined. That is 0.22BTC/share of gross income in eight months.


So if they have 10% of the network, my understanding is that in the near term (12 months) does this mean that we can expect a regular dividend of ~0.0063 (0.22 BTC / 8 months * 12months / 52 weeks) BTC per week?

Edit: I realise now that 0.33 BTC/share per year is gross, so expenses need to come out. Even so, the Price/Earnings ratio still seems good if asicminer can maintain that share for a many years to come.
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March 15, 2013, 03:49:31 AM
 #2365

Update

Status Quo
The PCB production of the main board and the power module has started. For safety the second batch has no changes with respect to the PCB design. However the mechanical parts will meet some improvements to cope with more heat introduced by possible aggressive overclocking.

The deploying of the first batch had met more stagnation since the rewiring for increasing of power capacity of the new place has still been going on since the last week. There are no accidents like fire or steal. Our devices are fused from the house level to the board level, and our workshops (both old and new) have both a public (district-based) and a private (building-based) security system. Most of the boards ran 24/7 without any dysfunction or slowdown. Sometime one or two PSUs may stop working but that's because in our original setting they are a way close to be overloaded.

Further Plans
We definitely will move to better technology. And in the next few years we will keep benefit from our design experience of IC and PCB boards, our accumulated contacts to the manufacturers, and not-yet-fully raised low costs in mainland China.

I only claim that all you talk about how network needs you was all crap, and that you failed the first simple test of proving your necessity to btc ecosystem, you are useless and you will go extinct in short time..

EDIT: cool translation: and this is how things work in darwinian world we live in, you are necessary, you survive, you are not necessary, you are out.. it is not hatred, its cool math, cope with this or don't expect world to remember you... it's just a warning. you have a board which vote this and that, consider this post just a mere advice..
We contribute to the network security as all other miners do. If you think that miners are not necessary for the btc ecosystem then we are not. Objectively every single dime spent on mining devices by people inside the community reduces a little probability of Bitcoin being taken down by malicious organizations.

ASIC manufactures sell devices to miners. We are both an ASIC manufacture and a miner. Does this make us less useful and more evil than both?

The next batch will come at the end of this month? And what will be the timeframe to bring them online, now as you made contracts with workshops and so on? Any estimation?
I only wonder how it will be handled that asicminer lacks competition. I mean if really 62TH will be online soon than we will have 200% of the network hashingrate like it is now. Or 66.6% when its online. Competition should start to move then.
Yes. We expect late April to be fully online, but that would require we successfully get enough right employees and there's nothing unexpected during the production process.

We expect a long-lasting, sharp and harsh difficulty rising therefore this will not likely to be a concern. If it becomes very fortunate for us that the difficulty climbs up slow, selling the devices at that moment at a low price as the current market price is not wise and too early. Refraining the hashpower for several days or weeks may be a better choice.

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March 15, 2013, 04:23:49 AM
 #2366

Where/how can one buy shares?

If i wanted to buy 10 shares, what % of ASICMINERS network total would that be equal to. Also what would 10 shares cost? And are any shares available?

You can buy 11 shares of DMC on Bitfunder and trade them (someday) for 1 ASICMINER.

If you just want the exposure, buy into a pass-through or a mining fund holding the shares, such has JAH.

https://bitfunder.com/asset/DMC
https://bitfunder.com/asset/JAH
https://bitfunder.com/asset/G.ASICMINER-PT

I'm buying all three!   Cool

Would buying DMC at current values not give you the same exposure to ASICMINER as buying a share for 0.50 (or close to).  Seems like a better deal then the pass-throughs.

In theory it would, yes.

In practice Diablo has a declared policy on paying out half received dividends as dividends and using half to execute buybacks of shares.  Last dividend he actually paid out over half as dividends, used well under half for buybacks and kept about 1/4 as cash.  No idea why - so you take on the gamble of his semi-random actions.  On the bright side, every time he buys back you own more ASICMINER shares/share - so its good for long-term exposire.  On bad side he pays dividends monthly so you have to wait for them then see what random percent he pays out, what random percent he buys back with and what random percent he keeps as cash for no stated reason.

No, I actually calculated it wrong. I calculated the buyback using the 1000 shares DMC owns, but not in addition to the 371 I'm using the dividends from to speed the DMC repair effort, but paid DMC dividends from the entire 1371. Its supposed to be 50/50, but I buy shares over time as prices fluctuate. What you claim as quarter of cash is closer to 1/8th and it was sitting on Bitfunder waiting for the order to be fulfilled, so it was still being used on buyback.

The actual difference should be 1000 shares worth of dividends buy back, 1371 shares worth of dividends paid as dividends.

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March 15, 2013, 04:41:25 AM
 #2367

No, I actually calculated it wrong. I calculated the buyback using the 1000 shares DMC owns, but not in addition to the 371 I'm using the dividends from to speed the DMC repair effort, but paid DMC dividends from the entire 1371. Its supposed to be 50/50, but I buy shares over time as prices fluctuate. What you claim as quarter of cash is closer to 1/8th and it was sitting on Bitfunder waiting for the order to be fulfilled, so it was still being used on buyback.

The actual difference should be 1000 shares worth of dividends buy back, 1371 shares worth of dividends paid as dividends.

Are you saying that, as you buy back DMC shares, 11 shares of DMC will be worth more than 1 AM share?

Or does the buy-back and extra 371 only effect dividends?


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March 15, 2013, 04:51:59 AM
 #2368

No, I actually calculated it wrong. I calculated the buyback using the 1000 shares DMC owns, but not in addition to the 371 I'm using the dividends from to speed the DMC repair effort, but paid DMC dividends from the entire 1371. Its supposed to be 50/50, but I buy shares over time as prices fluctuate. What you claim as quarter of cash is closer to 1/8th and it was sitting on Bitfunder waiting for the order to be fulfilled, so it was still being used on buyback.

The actual difference should be 1000 shares worth of dividends buy back, 1371 shares worth of dividends paid as dividends.

Are you saying that, as you buy back DMC shares, 11 shares of DMC will be worth more than 1 AM share?

Or does the buy-back and extra 371 only effect dividends?

The 371 shares remain my property, but the dividends from those are spent towards the buyback and DMC dividends 50/50. If you're pricing DMC by dividend, you count all 1371 shares; if you're pricing by asset value, you count 1000 shares.

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March 15, 2013, 05:04:54 AM
 #2369

Status Quo
The PCB production of the main board and the power module has started. For safety the second batch has no changes with respect to the PCB design. However the mechanical parts will meet some improvements to cope with more heat introduced by possible aggressive overclocking.

Good news. I hope what will using freon cooling in the future, for extreme overclocking. After slowdown the increase performance of chips of course (14nm, SOI, Tri-gate and etc.).

Novacoin we trust!
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March 15, 2013, 05:10:53 AM
 #2370

If you're a shareholder of ASICMINER, just use the dividend from the shares to donate anything you want.
Yep.

Charity is voluntary.

Coerced 'contributions' is theft.

This is Bitcoin. Not the Democratic Party of the USA.

-- edit --

I do sympathize with eleuthria.

However, he has no right to, nor has he asked for, 'taxation' on the overall community to cover his mistake.

It was a somewhat costly mistake. Been there, done that. Learn from it.
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March 15, 2013, 05:12:20 AM
 #2371

I don't think ASICMINER is going to jump from 120nm (or whatever it is now?) to 14nm..
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March 15, 2013, 05:29:54 AM
 #2372

I don't think ASICMINER is going to jump from 120nm (or whatever it is now?) to 14nm..
It can progress step-by-step 130->65->28->14 nm, on each step sell ASIC of previous generation after deploy new generation ASIC. One step per 8-12 months it possible?

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March 15, 2013, 08:37:27 AM
 #2373

Why monthly divs? Mining is probably only business where weekly dividends are a must.

While reading what I wrote, use the most friendliest and relaxing voice in your head.
BTW, Things in BTC bubble universes are getting ugly....
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March 15, 2013, 08:44:40 AM
 #2374

Why monthly divs? Mining is probably only business where weekly dividends are a must.

Monthly divs? ASICMINER is currently paying out weekly divs. DMC is monthly, but that's DMC and not directly ASICMINER.
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March 15, 2013, 09:27:47 AM
 #2375

this is how things work in darwinian world we live in, you are necessary, you survive, you are not necessary, you are out..

That is called the Gaia hypothesis and no one believes it. Nothing to do with Darwinian evolution. See also: Medea hypothesis.

Sorry for being both pedantic and off-topic.

ASICMiner is helpful to Bitcoin by the mere fact that it is increasing the work done. If this is not enough, or is a problem, then there is something wrong with the "ecosystem". How this is affecting miners' profitability is completely irrelevant.
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March 15, 2013, 10:31:53 AM
 #2376

We expect a long-lasting, sharp and harsh difficulty rising therefore this will not likely to be a concern. If it becomes very fortunate for us that the difficulty climbs up slow, selling the devices at that moment at a low price as the current market price is not wise and too early. Refraining the hashpower for several days or weeks may be a better choice.

I trust your judgement on that. But please re-evaluate the situation frequently. It might be wise to still grab some marketshare of pre-orders from bfl...
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March 15, 2013, 11:25:38 AM
 #2377

Yes. We expect late April to be fully online, but that would require we successfully get enough right employees and there's nothing unexpected during the production process.

We expect a long-lasting, sharp and harsh difficulty rising therefore this will not likely to be a concern. If it becomes very fortunate for us that the difficulty climbs up slow, selling the devices at that moment at a low price as the current market price is not wise and too early. Refraining the hashpower for several days or weeks may be a better choice.

I wish you luck in finding good and trustworthy employees.

Regarding the selling... i see it the same and thought about refraining too. Alternatively one could calculate if a price of 12 months mining income or so would be paid. Thats probably not a bad business then.

@beekeeper... it would have been way better if you hadnt come accusing Asicminer but instead asking for donations. This topic was completely unknown in this thread. At least i read the first time about it yesterday. And im sure some people will donate something. I will do this too, unfortunately the height of loss is way out of my league so i only will be a small help.

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March 17, 2013, 02:50:22 PM
 #2378

A small warning... while i thought i can buy for 0.6 (at least some people here think its highly overvalued Smiley, and no im not thinking so like my posts state) i ended up to buy at 0.72 now. And even though there is a unified orderbook thread for asicminer shares here in the forum there are Passthroughs too at real exchanges. And even though you dont own the actual asicminer shares there the prices are at 0.8BTC now there. And are traded this way. It looks to me that a real trading platform leads to higher prices for some reason. So if you plan to buy more shares i would think about this now, before friedcat opens the exchange. I can be wrong but it doesnt look like the shareprice will drop soon again.
See the "trade history" of this passthrough here: https://bitfunder.com/asset/G.ASICMINER-PT or even here: https://btct.co/security/ASICMINER-PT 0.9BTC there...

Maybe im wrong with rising prices on a fast real exchange. Its only an subjective observation.

You're not wrong.  Liquidity adds to the value of shares (provided there's no ceiling in place).  Being able to sell/trade them makes them worth more - you still have all the benefits you had when they were impossible/hard to trade and now also have the ability to sell them if you need/want to.  That increases demand - as people who wouldn't buy them if they were hard/difficult to sell (if necessary) now can/will.
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March 17, 2013, 02:55:37 PM
 #2379

I am wondering, if I purchase shares here on the forum, how do I hold the shares?  I mean what sort of record is there for who is holding shares?  I am using BTC to purchase pass-through, but what if I purchase here on the forum?
Thanks.

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March 17, 2013, 03:00:47 PM
 #2380

A small warning... while i thought i can buy for 0.6 (at least some people here think its highly overvalued Smiley, and no im not thinking so like my posts state) i ended up to buy at 0.72 now. And even though there is a unified orderbook thread for asicminer shares here in the forum there are Passthroughs too at real exchanges. And even though you dont own the actual asicminer shares there the prices are at 0.8BTC now there. And are traded this way. It looks to me that a real trading platform leads to higher prices for some reason. So if you plan to buy more shares i would think about this now, before friedcat opens the exchange. I can be wrong but it doesnt look like the shareprice will drop soon again.
See the "trade history" of this passthrough here: https://bitfunder.com/asset/G.ASICMINER-PT or even here: https://btct.co/security/ASICMINER-PT 0.9BTC there...

Maybe im wrong with rising prices on a fast real exchange. Its only an subjective observation.

You're not wrong.  Liquidity adds to the value of shares (provided there's no ceiling in place).  Being able to sell/trade them makes them worth more - you still have all the benefits you had when they were impossible/hard to trade and now also have the ability to sell them if you need/want to.  That increases demand - as people who wouldn't buy them if they were hard/difficult to sell (if necessary) now can/will.

I thought it will be somehow this way. Thats probably why the Passthroughs for asicminer are traded even higher than the real shares at the orderbook thread: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=148282.new;topicseen#new Only because there is a real exchange in place. So for those that want to buy shares its still better that Bitfountain didnt release the exchange yet.

I am wondering, if I purchase shares here on the forum, how do I hold the shares?  I mean what sort of record is there for who is holding shares?  I am using BTC to purchase pass-through, but what if I purchase here on the forum?
Thanks.

You go to the thread and claim your price. If someone goes in on it you search an escrow from here https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=108716.msg1180916#msg1180916
Then you will get a contract and a bitcoin address from the escrow. If you sent the money to the escrow the buyer will be informed and he will inform friedcat. Friedcat then puts the shares to your account. He needs an email, your bitcoin address for dividends and your forum name. He then informs you about the shares bound to your account and you can tell the escrow to release the btc.
I used john (the one with the puppy, its in the list too) and it went fine. If all is done you can give him a reward, because he does the escrow for free.
So friedcat is the one who tells you that you now own shares. Make sure its the real one and no scammer that created a new, duplicated account.

Please ALWAYS contact me through bitcointalk pm before sending someone coins.
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