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Author Topic: ASICMINER: Entering the Future of ASIC Mining by Inventing It  (Read 3885488 times)
SebastianJu
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March 22, 2013, 12:52:07 AM
 #2481

I really don't get why one of the established exchanges isn't being used.  Seems like the shares in the passthroughs work just fine.

I'd say it's because they aren't really established. Other than MPEx they have only been around for a few months, and have relatively low trade volumes. Bitfountain has a fine dividend system in place, and we have the option of using BTC-TC and Bitfunder to trade our shares if we want to take that risk.

Risk in an exchange would only apply for money in the exchange and the asset infos. If an exchange gives out that info regularly to the asset issuer and if no real btc is shared in there, for example because money left is always sent back to an address owned by the shareholder, then i dont see much risk. At least no risk like it happened in glbse.com.
Anyway... bitfountain decided to create an own exchange and already did this. It wont happen that shares will be traded on another share anymore. Thinking about this is pointless i believe. Its only a matter of time if friedcat and team can solve the problems, get the remaining TH online and have time to test the exchange before letting go it live. It still sounds they are working pretty hard so it might take some time till thats happening.

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March 22, 2013, 12:54:05 AM
 #2482

I really don't get why one of the established exchanges isn't being used.  Seems like the shares in the passthroughs work just fine.

I'd say it's because they aren't really established. Other than MPEx they have only been around for a few months, and have relatively low trade volumes. Bitfountain has a fine dividend system in place, and we have the option of using BTC-TC and Bitfunder to trade our shares if we want to take that risk.

Bitfunder has about 640btc 24hr volume right now, probly not as high as mpex, but nothing to sneeze at.
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March 22, 2013, 01:33:38 AM
 #2483

bitfountain decided to create an own exchange and already did this.
Oh. An "exchange". "already" you say.

And where is this exchange where I can buy/sell, please?

--

Actually, my question is rhetorical since I've already transferred all my shares to BitFunder and sold out.

IMO, 0.8+ BTC per share is about twice the 'proper' price.

And I recognize that is fairly open to debate. I made my assumptions and estimates for the next twelve months and made my decision.
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March 22, 2013, 03:33:40 AM
 #2484

Why not use a stripped down version of the bitcoin code? Each share is a coin, no decimal places allowed, and blocks can be generated using the issuers signing key instead of mining. Shares can be traded p2p and transactions confirmed by the issuer.

Why would you want to give issuers the power to veto transactions?

1) Possibly there are legal reasons they must.

2) ASICMINER has that power right now.

3) An issuer in general always has the ultimate power:  they can inflate their own shares, or simply stop producing useful revenue.

1) Why should we care about that?  We have the means of making a better system.  Law always plays catch-up anyway.

2) True.  And before they had the sole ability, GLBSE had it.  All of the "stock exchanges" are just ledger books, even MPEX.  By and large, we don't accept money that is only ours because someone says it is ours, we prefer money that is cryptographically ours.  Why do we still accept fiat securities while we reject fiat money?

3) They always have the ability to do things globally.  Why should they also have the ability to selectively veto private transfers?

I worked out a system (probably like the 50th person to do so, but whatever)  with a merged mine chain that was a bit like namecoin, but with quantities.  Totally decentralized, like bitcoin.  You'd need brokers still, but that's pretty much the case when trading bitcoin also.

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March 22, 2013, 11:16:34 AM
 #2485

bitfountain decided to create an own exchange and already did this.
Oh. An "exchange". "already" you say.

And where is this exchange where I can buy/sell, please?

Its not online yet. But friedcat wrote that they already paid someone who created it. Im not sure why it isnt online, maybe it has to be tested before or similar but he claimed its work to do before it can go online and he doesnt have the time.
Because he already paid for an own exchange i doubt they now will start to use another exchange. So the discussion how good other exchanges are doesnt make sense anymore.
I didnt say more.

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March 22, 2013, 02:10:59 PM
 #2486

1) Why should we care about that?  We have the means of making a better system.  Law always plays catch-up anyway.

2) True.  And before they had the sole ability, GLBSE had it.  All of the "stock exchanges" are just ledger books, even MPEX.  By and large, we don't accept money that is only ours because someone says it is ours, we prefer money that is cryptographically ours.  Why do we still accept fiat securities while we reject fiat money?

3) They always have the ability to do things globally.  Why should they also have the ability to selectively veto private transfers?

I worked out a system (probably like the 50th person to do so, but whatever)  with a merged mine chain that was a bit like namecoin, but with quantities.  Totally decentralized, like bitcoin.  You'd need brokers still, but that's pretty much the case when trading bitcoin also.

Unless/until you have good answers for these problems you're by and large wasting your time is my guess.

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March 22, 2013, 02:59:03 PM
 #2487

1) Why should we care about that?  We have the means of making a better system.  Law always plays catch-up anyway.

2) True.  And before they had the sole ability, GLBSE had it.  All of the "stock exchanges" are just ledger books, even MPEX.  By and large, we don't accept money that is only ours because someone says it is ours, we prefer money that is cryptographically ours.  Why do we still accept fiat securities while we reject fiat money?

3) They always have the ability to do things globally.  Why should they also have the ability to selectively veto private transfers?

I worked out a system (probably like the 50th person to do so, but whatever)  with a merged mine chain that was a bit like namecoin, but with quantities.  Totally decentralized, like bitcoin.  You'd need brokers still, but that's pretty much the case when trading bitcoin also.

Unless/until you have good answers for these problems you're by and large wasting your time is my guess.

Well, I start by not assuming that there are no brokerages or exchanges...  that takes care of problems 0, 1, 2, 3 and 4.  I could go into detail on each point, but I think the mechanics are pretty simple, once you get rid of that one (silly) assumption.  If anyone is unable to work through each one on their own, I'd be happy to start a new thread.

A bitcoin-like system for exchanging securities has pretty much all of the same advantages and disadvantages that bitcoin has.  Note that all transactions in bitcoin are simple donations.  Real world transactions are only possible when one party or the other is willing to trust the other for a little while.  That same level of trust would be needed for a distributed securities exchange system.

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March 22, 2013, 04:34:00 PM
 #2488

So, how is it going with the weekly update?
ThickAsThieves
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March 22, 2013, 04:39:44 PM
 #2489

Friedcat, will there be an update this week?
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March 22, 2013, 06:08:43 PM
 #2490

Update

Board members
A mail has been sent to the board member mailing list. We are sorry for the long interval between the last one and this.

OP
The main thread is under a re-writing since much information of the original one is out-dated. The old OP is backed-up by forum members in the replies.

Status
This week's dividends will be paid twice. The first is to pay the rest of the 0.1BTC/share, that is 0.00750846BTC/share. The second is to start the normal payment which splits proportionally between ASICMINER and Bitfountain.

This week meets more stagnancy of deploying. But in the last few days we poured 0.5TH/s into our mining farm as the installing of power cables in the new place goes on. The total hashrate grows much less than this, mostly possibly because of the bottleneck in our local network setting. We are still identifying and fixing the problem.

Next batch
The critical path is on either the packaging company's testing, or the interval between ordering and delivering of some components. Either way the assembly will finish in next month. Here is what the next batch improves over this one:

* The chips are functionality tested by the packaging company using automatic devices instead of by ourselves.
* The power supply will be sufficient for most, if not all, of the devices and cooling settings even with overclocking. No further large-scale migration will be needed.
* With better heat solutions, they are to be all overclocked by default.
* More people will do the deploying and maintainance for us.

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March 22, 2013, 06:11:10 PM
 #2491

If people are interested in the "shareholder registry", enabling decentralized exchange, it could be written fairly quickly by myself.

No fee or bounty, though donations are always welcome.


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ThickAsThieves
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March 22, 2013, 06:13:16 PM
 #2492

Can you clarify your estimated dates for increased hashing? Next month is only a week away and we don't know whether you are talking about getting to 12TH, 15TH or 60TH or what when? Thank you sir!
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March 22, 2013, 06:22:12 PM
 #2493

Can you clarify your estimated dates for increased hashing? Next month is only a week away and we don't know whether you are talking about getting to 12TH, 15TH or 60TH or what when? Thank you sir!
Next batch is at least 50TH/s, which will be assembled and available in the early or middle of next month. Before that we have to gather more employees to form a deploying team because it's nearly a magnitude larger. We also have to deploy the rest of the first batch during this period (between now and the time next batch arrives) with or without new members to the company.

And this is estimation. We had somehow missed of the chips production cycle (actual arriving date: late December, estimated: late October to November) and the production/deploying cycle (actual deploying date: still going on, estimated: within March). Unexpected things happen, but we are fully aware of the reason of delays of the first batch and avoided the most in the next one.

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March 22, 2013, 06:25:41 PM
 #2494

If people are interested in the "shareholder registry", enabling decentralized exchange, it could be written fairly quickly by myself.

No fee or bounty, though donations are always welcome.

Iirc they had a thing developed in house over the course of > 3 months to do this. It's not been mentioned again, so I guess fail on that score?

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ThickAsThieves
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March 22, 2013, 06:26:14 PM
 #2495

Can you clarify your estimated dates for increased hashing? Next month is only a week away and we don't know whether you are talking about getting to 12TH, 15TH or 60TH or what when? Thank you sir!
Next batch is at least 50TH/s, which will be assembled and available in the early or middle of next month. Before that we have to gather more employees to form a deploying team because it's nearly a magnitude larger. We also have to deploy the rest of the first batch during this period (between now and the time next batch arrives) with or without new members to the company.

And this is estimation. We had somehow missed of the chips production cycle (actual arriving date: late December, estimated: late October to November) and the production/deploying cycle (actual deploying date: still going on, estimated: within March). Unexpected things happen, but we are fully aware of the reason of delays of the first batch and avoided the most in the next one.

Thanks for the added info, much appreciated  Grin
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March 22, 2013, 06:44:17 PM
 #2496

Thanks for the update friedcat!  Smiley

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March 22, 2013, 06:59:55 PM
 #2497

Thanks for the update Friedcat!

Nice to know what to expect in the next weeks/months  Smiley

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March 22, 2013, 08:54:32 PM
 #2498

Can you clarify your estimated dates for increased hashing? Next month is only a week away and we don't know whether you are talking about getting to 12TH, 15TH or 60TH or what when? Thank you sir!
Next batch is at least 50TH/s, which will be assembled and available in the early or middle of next month. Before that we have to gather more employees to form a deploying team because it's nearly a magnitude larger. We also have to deploy the rest of the first batch during this period (between now and the time next batch arrives) with or without new members to the company.

And this is estimation. We had somehow missed of the chips production cycle (actual arriving date: late December, estimated: late October to November) and the production/deploying cycle (actual deploying date: still going on, estimated: within March). Unexpected things happen, but we are fully aware of the reason of delays of the first batch and avoided the most in the next one.

This is extremely bullish.

Reasons:

(1) BFL is going to ship next month, not this month... even more delays.  They will still only be able to ship 42 TH/s at best.
(2) Avalons are more expensive now.
-> Competitors not going to add too much hashrate to the network.  Let's assume it's 130 TH/s without us.
(3) Bitfountain will be able to deploy much more rapidly this time, since our racks will come fully assembled in mid-April.

This gives us at least April and early May to hash at 60 TH/s, and possibly more with overclocking, which would be at least 25% of the network.  Per share dividends per week: (1/4) 3600 * 7 / 400000 = .01575.  Thus, a reasonable level of profitability can be reasonably expected to continue well into May.

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March 22, 2013, 08:57:38 PM
 #2499

Can you clarify your estimated dates for increased hashing? Next month is only a week away and we don't know whether you are talking about getting to 12TH, 15TH or 60TH or what when? Thank you sir!
Next batch is at least 50TH/s, which will be assembled and available in the early or middle of next month. Before that we have to gather more employees to form a deploying team because it's nearly a magnitude larger. We also have to deploy the rest of the first batch during this period (between now and the time next batch arrives) with or without new members to the company.

And this is estimation. We had somehow missed of the chips production cycle (actual arriving date: late December, estimated: late October to November) and the production/deploying cycle (actual deploying date: still going on, estimated: within March). Unexpected things happen, but we are fully aware of the reason of delays of the first batch and avoided the most in the next one.

This is extremely bullish.

Reasons:

(1) BFL is going to ship next month, not this month... even more delays.  They will still only be able to ship 42 TH/s at best.
(2) Avalons are more expensive now.
-> Competitors not going to add too much hashrate to the network.  Let's assume it's 130 TH/s without us.
(3) Bitfountain will be able to deploy much more rapidly this time, since our racks will come fully assembled in mid-April.

This gives us at least April and early May to hash at 60 TH/s, and possibly more with overclocking, which would be at least 25% of the network.  Per share dividends per week: (1/4) 3600 * 7 / 400000 = .01575.  Thus, a reasonable level of profitability can be reasonably expected to continue well into May.

You sure you still want to sell all those shares then?  Cheesy

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March 22, 2013, 09:13:12 PM
 #2500

Can you clarify your estimated dates for increased hashing? Next month is only a week away and we don't know whether you are talking about getting to 12TH, 15TH or 60TH or what when? Thank you sir!
Next batch is at least 50TH/s, which will be assembled and available in the early or middle of next month. Before that we have to gather more employees to form a deploying team because it's nearly a magnitude larger. We also have to deploy the rest of the first batch during this period (between now and the time next batch arrives) with or without new members to the company.

And this is estimation. We had somehow missed of the chips production cycle (actual arriving date: late December, estimated: late October to November) and the production/deploying cycle (actual deploying date: still going on, estimated: within March). Unexpected things happen, but we are fully aware of the reason of delays of the first batch and avoided the most in the next one.

This is extremely bullish.

Reasons:

(1) BFL is going to ship next month, not this month... even more delays.  They will still only be able to ship 42 TH/s at best.
(2) Avalons are more expensive now.
-> Competitors not going to add too much hashrate to the network.  Let's assume it's 130 TH/s without us.
(3) Bitfountain will be able to deploy much more rapidly this time, since our racks will come fully assembled in mid-April.

This gives us at least April and early May to hash at 60 TH/s, and possibly more with overclocking, which would be at least 25% of the network.  Per share dividends per week: (1/4) 3600 * 7 / 400000 = .01575.  Thus, a reasonable level of profitability can be reasonably expected to continue well into May.

You sure you still want to sell all those shares then?  Cheesy

Well, I started selling before the update... not sure anymore what to do Tongue

(BFL)^2 < 0
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