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Author Topic: ASICMINER: Entering the Future of ASIC Mining by Inventing It  (Read 3888287 times)
friedcat
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March 21, 2013, 04:31:14 PM
 #2461

Pre-Update

I'm in the farm and fixing the network connection problem. Using a cellphone to write this post.

This week's update will cover the stagnancy of this batch, the production status of the next, and a rewritten OP to reduce the number of recent growing mails and PMs asking for long-non-available IPO shares.

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March 21, 2013, 04:44:23 PM
 #2462

How about this:  make it possible for users to create their own decentralized exchange.

  • Register a bitcoin address for each shareholder, if not already.  This enables the ability to authenticate cryptographically signed digital messages.  See this stackexchange answer for a guide.  Most bitcoin clients support signing messages.  Registering a GPG key for each shareholder is an alternative, though that requires additional software beyond a bitcoin client.
  • Publicly declare a bitcoin address and GPG key for official ASICMINER messages.
  • Publicly declare an email address for emailing ASICMINER robot
  • At the end of every day, ASICMINER robot produces a message listing all shareholders, by key and share count.  Attach bitcoin and GPG digital signatures.
  • To trade ASICMINER shares, the seller sends a digitally-signed message "transfer N shares to bitcoin address FOO" to the ASICMINER robot.

That is all that is needed on the ASICMINER side:  maintain a shareholder registry.  changes to the shareholder registry may be both pseudonymous and secure.

Then anyone may build an exchange that trades shares.  Anyone may trade ASICMINER shares at any time, using this method.



Sounds good to me. If we could move shares around like currency it would be a real boost.

They would only need depositing into an exchange account when you want to sell them.

I guess this would be treating shares like a kind of currency.
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March 21, 2013, 08:26:45 PM
 #2463

How about this:  make it possible for users to create their own decentralized exchange.

  • Register a bitcoin address for each shareholder, if not already.  This enables the ability to authenticate cryptographically signed digital messages.  See this stackexchange answer for a guide.  Most bitcoin clients support signing messages.  Registering a GPG key for each shareholder is an alternative, though that requires additional software beyond a bitcoin client.
  • Publicly declare a bitcoin address and GPG key for official ASICMINER messages.
  • Publicly declare an email address for emailing ASICMINER robot
  • At the end of every day, ASICMINER robot produces a message listing all shareholders, by key and share count.  Attach bitcoin and GPG digital signatures.
  • To trade ASICMINER shares, the seller sends a digitally-signed message "transfer N shares to bitcoin address FOO" to the ASICMINER robot.

That is all that is needed on the ASICMINER side:  maintain a shareholder registry.  changes to the shareholder registry may be both pseudonymous and secure.

Then anyone may build an exchange that trades shares.  Anyone may trade ASICMINER shares at any time, using this method.



So, as I understand your proposal, one does not even need to be a miner to implement this.  All you need to do is run a bitcoin client and have some additional robot code which adds, transfers and reports on shares.  Fascinating.  Now find a way to host it which provides plausible deniability (because you'd be violating securities laws) and can't be taken down.  I2P or a Tor hidden service perhaps?

This idea deserves its own thread in Project Development!

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March 21, 2013, 08:33:21 PM
 #2464

How about this:  make it possible for users to create their own decentralized exchange.

So, as I understand your proposal, one does not even need to be a miner to implement this.

Correct.

Quote
All you need to do is run a bitcoin client and have some additional robot code which adds, transfers and reports on shares.

Shareholders don't need any robot code:

1) ASICMINER runs the "shareholder registry" robot.

2) Shareholders do not need anything but a bitcoin client with the "sign message" feature.

3) A person-to-person share trade looks like this:

     a) Alice sends 100 BTC to Bob
     b) Alice sends bitcoin address ABCDEF to Bob
     c) Bob emails ASICMINER robot, with signed message "transfer ownership of my 50 shares to address ABCDEF"
     d) The next time ASICMINER robot publishes a shareholder registry, it says "50 shares owned by ABCDEF"

4) If you want to run an automated share trading market, create a website that accepts bitcoin or ASICMINER share deposits, ....


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March 21, 2013, 08:33:50 PM
 #2465

How about this:  make it possible for users to create their own decentralized exchange.

  • Register a bitcoin address for each shareholder, if not already.  This enables the ability to authenticate cryptographically signed digital messages.  See this stackexchange answer for a guide.  Most bitcoin clients support signing messages.  Registering a GPG key for each shareholder is an alternative, though that requires additional software beyond a bitcoin client.
  • Publicly declare a bitcoin address and GPG key for official ASICMINER messages.
  • Publicly declare an email address for emailing ASICMINER robot
  • At the end of every day, ASICMINER robot produces a message listing all shareholders, by key and share count.  Attach bitcoin and GPG digital signatures.
  • To trade ASICMINER shares, the seller sends a digitally-signed message "transfer N shares to bitcoin address FOO" to the ASICMINER robot.

That is all that is needed on the ASICMINER side:  maintain a shareholder registry.  changes to the shareholder registry may be both pseudonymous and secure.

Then anyone may build an exchange that trades shares.  Anyone may trade ASICMINER shares at any time, using this method.



So, as I understand your proposal, one does not even need to be a miner to implement this.  All you need to do is run a bitcoin client and have some additional robot code which adds, transfers and reports on shares.  Fascinating.  Now find a way to host it which provides plausible deniability and can't be taken down.  I2P or a Tor hidden service perhaps?

This idea deserves its own thread in Project Development!

If I understand this correctly, when you lose your wallet, all of your shares would be lost in addition to your coins?  That poses some interesting problems for shareholders and issuer alike.

The rest of it (gpg trading) is roughly what MPEx does I think?  Definitely seems to be a sound trade mechanism.


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March 21, 2013, 08:56:34 PM
 #2466

How about this:  make it possible for users to create their own decentralized exchange.

  • Register a bitcoin address for each shareholder, if not already.  This enables the ability to authenticate cryptographically signed digital messages.  See this stackexchange answer for a guide.  Most bitcoin clients support signing messages.  Registering a GPG key for each shareholder is an alternative, though that requires additional software beyond a bitcoin client.
  • Publicly declare a bitcoin address and GPG key for official ASICMINER messages.
  • Publicly declare an email address for emailing ASICMINER robot
  • At the end of every day, ASICMINER robot produces a message listing all shareholders, by key and share count.  Attach bitcoin and GPG digital signatures.
  • To trade ASICMINER shares, the seller sends a digitally-signed message "transfer N shares to bitcoin address FOO" to the ASICMINER robot.

That is all that is needed on the ASICMINER side:  maintain a shareholder registry.  changes to the shareholder registry may be both pseudonymous and secure.

Then anyone may build an exchange that trades shares.  Anyone may trade ASICMINER shares at any time, using this method.



So, as I understand your proposal, one does not even need to be a miner to implement this.  All you need to do is run a bitcoin client and have some additional robot code which adds, transfers and reports on shares.  Fascinating.  Now find a way to host it which provides plausible deniability and can't be taken down.  I2P or a Tor hidden service perhaps?

This idea deserves its own thread in Project Development!

If I understand this correctly, when you lose your wallet, all of your shares would be lost in addition to your coins?  That poses some interesting problems for shareholders and issuer alike.

The rest of it (gpg trading) is roughly what MPEx does I think?  Definitely seems to be a sound trade mechanism.



If you allow Bitcoin OR gpg signing, then you'd have to lose both
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March 21, 2013, 09:07:38 PM
 #2467

That is all that is needed on the ASICMINER side:  maintain a shareholder registry.  changes to the shareholder registry may be both pseudonymous and secure.

Then anyone may build an exchange that trades shares.  Anyone may trade ASICMINER shares at any time, using this method.
Reminds me of a few DNS email robot systems I have seen. What is required is a definition of an API which works through email.

As a security feature he may still want to manually "check" each trade, to make sure there are not hacking attempts. But it would be highly automized, allowing for a higher throughput.

The ASICMINER Project https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=99497.0
"The way you solve things is by making it politically profitable for the wrong people to do the right thing.", Milton Friedman
jgarzik
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March 21, 2013, 09:07:42 PM
 #2468

The core idea is simple:  Each company maintains their own shareholder registry.  Changes to the shareholder registry must be cryptographically signed and verified.  The registry must be published in a public medium on a regular basis for auditing/anti-cheating purposes.


Jeff Garzik, Bloq CEO, former bitcoin core dev team; opinions are my own.
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March 21, 2013, 09:11:51 PM
 #2469

As a security feature he may still want to manually "check" each trade, to make sure there are not hacking attempts. But it would be highly automized, allowing for a higher throughput.

Yes.  Some legal juridictions may be required to manually check each trade, to make sure they have legally-required investor information.

If exchanges get into play, most changes to the shareholder registry will be boring:

(example)
  • 2013-Mar-21 00:23:11 transfer 100 shares from FOO EXCHANGE to BAR EXCHANGE
  • 2013-Mar-21 00:23:12 transfer 800 shares from FOO EXCHANGE to BIFF EXCHANGE
  • 2013-Mar-21 00:23:14 transfer 1000 shares from BAZ EXCHANGE to FOO EXCHANGE
  • 2013-Mar-21 00:23:19 transfer 18 shares from FOO EXCHANGE to Jeff Garzik


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March 21, 2013, 09:14:37 PM
 #2470

The core idea is simple:  Each company maintains their own shareholder registry.  Changes to the shareholder registry must be cryptographically signed and verified.  The registry must be published in a public medium on a regular basis for auditing/anti-cheating purposes.



I was gonna say... can't wait 'till all the pirates out there get ahold of this software.  We're gonna have "IPO's" all over the place with no visibility into the actual underlying numbers.  Wink
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March 21, 2013, 09:17:31 PM
 #2471

Why not use a stripped down version of the bitcoin code? Each share is a coin, no decimal places allowed, and blocks can be generated using the issuers signing key instead of mining. Shares can be traded p2p and transactions confirmed by the issuer.

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March 21, 2013, 09:25:43 PM
 #2472

Why not use a stripped down version of the bitcoin code? Each share is a coin, no decimal places allowed, and blocks can be generated using the issuers signing key instead of mining. Shares can be traded p2p and transactions confirmed by the issuer.
That's the concept of colored coins.

However, there may be a need to keep track of shareholders for various legal reasons. Thus a central maintenance is advisable, where friedcat has at least an email address to contact you.

The ASICMINER Project https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=99497.0
"The way you solve things is by making it politically profitable for the wrong people to do the right thing.", Milton Friedman
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March 21, 2013, 10:29:16 PM
 #2473

Why not use a stripped down version of the bitcoin code? Each share is a coin, no decimal places allowed, and blocks can be generated using the issuers signing key instead of mining. Shares can be traded p2p and transactions confirmed by the issuer.

Why would you want to give issuers the power to veto transactions?

The issuer would also be able to retract the entire issue, or do whatever games they wanted to with that chain.  But they probably wouldn't do too much of that, since it would all be out in public.

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March 21, 2013, 10:31:28 PM
 #2474

Why not use a stripped down version of the bitcoin code? Each share is a coin, no decimal places allowed, and blocks can be generated using the issuers signing key instead of mining. Shares can be traded p2p and transactions confirmed by the issuer.

Why would you want to give issuers the power to veto transactions?

The issuer would also be able to retract the entire issue, or do whatever games they wanted to with that chain.  But they probably wouldn't do too much of that, since it would all be out in public.
The issuer could just go AWOL already. Kinda like TSA forbidding pilots carry nail clippers or something.
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March 21, 2013, 10:55:23 PM
 #2475

The core idea is simple:  Each company maintains their own shareholder registry.  Changes to the shareholder registry must be cryptographically signed and verified.  The registry must be published in a public medium on a regular basis for auditing/anti-cheating purposes.


...and exchanges can then be meta-exchanges, providing services such as escrow, or regulatory compliance, or protection from regulatory bodies, etc. - whatever an investor prefers, while companies are shielded from the chaos of various preferences of various investors. At the same time, companies would still have access to the whole world of investors - not limiting themselves to certain subgroup with certain preferences. It's a win-win-win situation.

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March 21, 2013, 11:38:10 PM
 #2476

Why not use a stripped down version of the bitcoin code? Each share is a coin, no decimal places allowed, and blocks can be generated using the issuers signing key instead of mining. Shares can be traded p2p and transactions confirmed by the issuer.

Why would you want to give issuers the power to veto transactions?

1) Possibly there are legal reasons they must.

2) ASICMINER has that power right now.

3) An issuer in general always has the ultimate power:  they can inflate their own shares, or simply stop producing useful revenue.


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March 22, 2013, 12:26:01 AM
 #2477

I really don't get why one of the established exchanges isn't being used.  Seems like the shares in the passthroughs work just fine.

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March 22, 2013, 12:28:48 AM
 #2478

I really don't get why one of the established exchanges isn't being used.  Seems like the shares in the passthroughs work just fine.
Bitfountain doesn't get much advantage considering each transfer takes around, 30 secs to verify? They already have the div payments system in place.
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March 22, 2013, 12:28:54 AM
 #2479

I really don't get why one of the established exchanges isn't being used.  Seems like the shares in the passthroughs work just fine.
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March 22, 2013, 12:46:46 AM
 #2480

I really don't get why one of the established exchanges isn't being used.  Seems like the shares in the passthroughs work just fine.

I'd say it's because they aren't really established. Other than MPEx they have only been around for a few months, and have relatively low trade volumes. Bitfountain has a fine dividend system in place, and we have the option of using BTC-TC and Bitfunder to trade our shares if we want to take that risk.
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