ASICMINER: Entering the Future of ASIC Mining by Inventing It

[freedomno1]

This might be a bit off topic, but I have no idea where else to ask. Does anyone know where I can find potential sellers of ASICMINER direct shares? I want to buy some.

Why not buy at Havelock and then convert yourself? Its not much of a market but the best thing we have right now.

There are many signs pointing to the shares being underpriced on the exchanges (currently 0.78BTC on HL). I personally want to stay as far away from HL and all other exchanges seem down. Looking in the auction forums you can see that there are multiple threads of folks offering to buy direct shares but nobody selling. I think the current valuation of ASICminer is closer to 1BTC than anything else, but is being kept low because nobody wants to put money on the exchanges. Meanwhile all the big holders sold around 3BTC and nobody who bought at this price wants to take the loss [i do see some folks making money via arbitrage if willing to take the gamble]. We're experiencing illiquidity, which is not good for the commodity's price or the holders. We need a new leader like BTC.TC was that the community believes in. Short of that, holders need to believe in the cat.

Well if shares are undervalued at havelock, simply buy some there, and convert to direct shares. In a few days time you end up with cheap direct shares .... don't see the risk, unless you think havelock is going under this week?

But yeah, the whole "virtual" share market is a mess at the moment. Isn't that on AM's to-do list still?

The fact that they allied with a Panamanian Exchange and still have a working relationship with the banks through canadianbitcoins hints that their are no real signs of a close down in the short term or mid but I admit one exchange on the block does make it a bit worrysome and it will take some time for people to start regaining confidence in exchanges in general again.
Not including 796 Chinese version or crypto-stocks

As for auction price I think no one wants to take a loss and most auctions were above 1
So the market is undersupplied for direct share selling at these levels

[1715086255]

1715086255

[1715086255]

1715086255

[AMuppInTime]

Why not buy at Havelock and then convert yourself? Its not much of a market but the best thing we have right now.

(...)


May I ask why your so weary of Havelock? Is it because of the precedent or something else?

I have no intel on anything, I am just worried about the stability of the operation. Right now they are playing the Canadian card as they should. I just don't have as much faith in the people involved as I had in burnside, to the point where I see no point in risking my direct shares or Bitcoins involved. That might change down the line, but I would say auction forum might work fine too: securities gain liquidity from being traded on exchanges but then you're trading something that is already abstracted an extra time. Simply put: I like my direct shares. I trust burnside and I hope friedcat comes up with an alternative exchange platform - wait and see for now.

[bitcoin.newsfeed]

Meanwhile all the big holders sold around 3BTC and nobody who bought at this price wants to take the loss [i do see some folks making money via arbitrage if willing to take the gamble].

Not "all", hardly anyone. When you make shareholders address analysis, you'll see that we had only 2-3 sellers from big guys at recent spike.

I wonder if the current price of bitcoins shouldnt lead to the stop of divs kept back.

Do you think that AM is still retaining something from dividends? I don't think so, from where? For last div we had 375 BTC from mining & 170 from franchising, it gives you 0.00136/share (without expenses), despite this we received awesome 0.0029/share (more than double), thanks to HW sales maybe. This week seem to be slowest ever, AM is not in rush and we'll likely see another ATL dividends.

But if the things are on the right track for long term, i am OK with that.

I hope that we'll see some update from Friedcat this weekend, not just CUBE announcement.(its more than month from last one, i dont count "quick updates")

[Puppet]

At this point it doesn't matter as much WHEN you come to market, the ASIC 'new tech' rush is over

I beg to differ. Market value of those asics is directly and proportionally related to difficulty and therefore to your time to market. Whats true for an individual miner is just as true as for a company selfmining or selling gear. You go tell a KnC or HF customer it doesnt really matter when they get their gear.

And if you meant to say they lost the race anyway and it doesnt matter anymore if its February or June, I also beg to differ -except for the part where they lost. This race is far from over; in fact it has barely even begun yet and it will continue until next summer at least. Every month you are late your margins are almost cut in half. KnC very much did the right thing by "rushing" to market with a far from perfect product. Their profits from their october shipments alone would pay for another, more perfect design.

[empoweoqwj]

Why not buy at Havelock and then convert yourself? Its not much of a market but the best thing we have right now.

(...)


May I ask why your so weary of Havelock? Is it because of the precedent or something else?

I have no intel on anything, I am just worried about the stability of the operation. Right now they are playing the Canadian card as they should. I just don't have as much faith in the people involved as I had in burnside, to the point where I see no point in risking my direct shares or Bitcoins involved. That might change down the line, but I would say auction forum might work fine too: securities gain liquidity from being traded on exchanges but then you're trading something that is already abstracted an extra time. Simply put: I like my direct shares. I trust burnside and I hope friedcat comes up with an alternative exchange platform - wait and see for now.

You only have to trust havelock will be around for a week in order to (a) put some funds into havelock, (b) buy some PT shares, (c) convert them to direct shares.

Of all the risks in the bitcoin world, that's pretty far down the list.

You can pay 0.7B to 0.8B at havelock, or 1B+ at auction. You really want to pay a 20%+ premium for the risk of using havelock for a week?

[AMuppInTime]

I agree - not all big holders sold, only some. And yes there is money to be made for somebody willing to play arbitrage game. Somebody Else.

[adara]

In friendly cooperation with highend-computer.de (the point of contact for powerful,
water-cooled Silent PCs), we can now offer water coolers for the blades, manufactured by ekwb

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=246020.msg3528099#msg3528099 for more and pics

There are a lot of reliable cooling solutions out there. If friedcat's own distributors are selling third party solutions, who will sell his?
Seems like AM is building castles in the sky and taking the wrong path with the cooling and computer centers stuff for which there are already excellent solutions out there and many strong competitors long fighting successfully on that space. Friedcat should better concentrate on the ASIC race or lose it completely.

[empoweoqwj]

In friendly cooperation with highend-computer.de (the point of contact for powerful,
water-cooled Silent PCs), we can now offer water coolers for the blades, manufactured by ekwb

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=246020.msg3528099#msg3528099 for more and pics

There are a lot of reliable cooling solutions out there. If friedcat's own distributors are selling third party solutions, who will sell his?
Seems like AM is building castles in the sky and taking the wrong path with the cooling and computer centers stuff for which there are already excellent solutions out there and many strong competitors long fighting successfully on that space. Friedcat should better concentrate on the ASIC race or lose it completely.

Completely different, and very basic, water-based cooling. Its like saying "other people sell cooling fans, why should AM bother with this stuff."

I trust AM have done their market research and found there is a real need for the advanced solution AM has developed, and they can add value to their company with all the time and money invested in it.

If they haven't done the research, and their solution adds little value, then sure, they are sunk, but I don't believe for a minute AM are that stupid not to pick their projects carefully. Time will tell though.

[empoweoqwj]

AM realize one thing - the days of "home mining" are swiftly coming to an end. Its not a market worth looking at. There will be nobody mining at home this time next year.

They are looking forward at a future they see as inevitable (mining on an industrial scale only) and planning solutions for it. I for one love innovative, forward thinking companies, not "I'm only prepared to copy other people" companies. If they fail, they fail, but better to fail trying.

[adara]

AM realize one thing - the days of "home mining" are swiftly coming to an end. Its not a market worth looking at. There will be nobody mining at home this time next year.

They are looking forward at a future they see as inevitable (mining on an industrial scale only) and planning solutions for it. I for one love innovative, forward thinking companies, not "I'm only prepared to copy other people" companies. If they fail, they fail, but better to fail trying.

The day bitcoin mining is just done by a few corporations and/or entities/governments, as you imply, that day bitcoin will be dead and we'll then better look for another coin folks. Centralization is not good. You better build solutions for the regular guy and for small enterprises. That's exactly what makes bitcoin so successful.

[velacreations]

The day bitcoin mining is just done by a few corporations and/or entities/governments, as you imply, that day bitcoin will be dead and we'll then better look for another coin folks. Centralization is not good. You better build solutions for the regular guy and for small enterprises. That's exactly what makes bitcoin so successful.

centralization and industrialization are not the same thing.

how much of the current network are small guys, and how much are big guys?

no one builds computers in their basements anymore, but computer manufacturing is anything but centralized.

[101111]

AM realize one thing - the days of "home mining" are swiftly coming to an end. Its not a market worth looking at. There will be nobody mining at home this time next year.

They are looking forward at a future they see as inevitable (mining on an industrial scale only) and planning solutions for it. I for one love innovative, forward thinking companies, not "I'm only prepared to copy other people" companies. If they fail, they fail, but better to fail trying.

The day bitcoin mining is just done by a few corporations and/or entities/governments, as you imply, that day bitcoin will be dead and we'll then better look for another coin folks. Centralization is not good. You better build solutions for the regular guy and for small enterprises. That's exactly what makes bitcoin so successful.

Agree with empoweoqwj. I don't see the implication there will only be a few large miners. There can be many industrial scale farms, and they in turn can be owned by many shareholders, in addition to corporations (thus more shareholders indirectly) and gov't depts (public, so even more 'indirect beneficiaries') that require their own in-house facilities. So if anything, more de-centralised than ever before, as it would shift from the tech savvy home operator segment into the mainstream.

[Endlessa]

In friendly cooperation with highend-computer.de (the point of contact for powerful,
water-cooled Silent PCs), we can now offer water coolers for the blades, manufactured by ekwb

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=246020.msg3528099#msg3528099 for more and pics

There are a lot of reliable cooling solutions out there. If friedcat's own distributors are selling third party solutions, who will sell his?
Seems like AM is building castles in the sky and taking the wrong path with the cooling and computer centers stuff for which there are already excellent solutions out there and many strong competitors long fighting successfully on that space. Friedcat should better concentrate on the ASIC race or lose it completely.

Completely different, and very basic, water-based cooling. Its like saying "other people sell cooling fans, why should AM bother with this stuff."

I trust AM have done their market research and found there is a real need for the advanced solution AM has developed, and they can add value to their company with all the time and money invested in it.

If they haven't done the research, and their solution adds little value, then sure, they are sunk, but I don't believe for a minute AM are that stupid not to pick their projects carefully. Time will tell though.

I'm sorry these already existed before FC made them (atleast on a functional level) and have been done for several years. . . http://www.grcooling.com/
In fact, if you look at the diagrams that slide by on the home page with the shipping container cooling solution, you'll see that it's pretty much the same thing.  It's an extremely niche market, that's already established solutions that have a high level of efficiency,  seems like a silly road (lol SR) to go down with limited funds.  The reason AM exists is because it was in a high demand market with few solutions.  Now that alternatives have begun to saturate the asic market, the solution is to run to a market that has been saturated solved and refined for years?  What's going to give the credibility and brand name recognition to FC that will allow a foot in the door? Look we were first to market in bitcoin, now you should buy a water cooing system from us!  I don't think they have anything that will affect share price, because the premise is not logical.   Now, in all fairness, it looks more like FC found a solution that is cheaper (than buying a professional product) for them to use in their own facility.  And that would make sense, but if you think this is some revolutionary concept your going to surprise the server hosting industry with and make millions.. . .then that's just a lack of knowledge imo.  I could be wrong, but this doesn't seem like something that should be touted as a new innovative solution.  

[SebastianJu]

Do you think that AM is still retaining something from dividends? I don't think so, from where? For last div we had 375 BTC from mining & 170 from franchising, it gives you 0.00136/share (without expenses), despite this we received awesome 0.0029/share (more than double), thanks to HW sales maybe. This week seem to be slowest ever, AM is not in rush and we'll likely see another ATL dividends.

Im pretty sure divs are retained. Since friedcat claimed this will move on some weeks and the divs constantly dropped over the weeks. If the retaining would have stopped then iam sure we would have seen a bigger div one week. I doubt that the retaining only is 10% so that we wouldnt notice when it stops.

[chairforce1]

What is the average count of mined blocks a day for AM? So far we have four today.
https://blockchain.info/blocks/ASICMiner

[SmiGueL]

What is the average count of mined blocks a day for AM? So far we have four today.
https://blockchain.info/blocks/ASICMiner

Then my calculations say that for today until now the average is 4.

_{*The mined blocks depends on the actual difficulty, the hashrate, and a little bit of luck.. So it actually varies every day..
According to the hashrate of the last few weeks 4 blocks in less than 1 day is pretty nice. (Which is probably because of that little bit of luck. It equals 100+ TH/s. )}

[DeathAndTaxes]

Immersion cooling is probably impractical for home miners.

I hope to change that.  It probably will be impractical for "the what is a Bitcoin, I just want to buy something, push a button, and get lots of coinz" miner but for the hobbyist I think it is possible (not certain but possible) for immersion cooling to be used.  There is an added bonus for home use of immersion cooling and that is using the waste heat.  A moderate sized rig has sufficient thermal output to provide a home with "free" (or at least 0 energy cost) hot water and/or whole house heating.

As for AM immersion cooling operation.  People shouldn't assume it is a slam dunk super duper money maker.  The economics are challenging however there are two potential bright spots:

1) Immersion cooling at its simplest form is a tank with fluid, a condenser and some mechanism to remove heat from the condenser (i.e. chilled water supply, freon, warm water) .  As hardware evolves old hardware can be replaced with new hardware.  Hardware from one vendor can be replaced with hardware from another vendor.  If it can fit in the tank it can be cooled with immersion cooling.  Compare this to heatsinks, heatpipe coolers, and waterblocks.  They are generally work on a specific system and must be scrapped when the board is obsolete.  Try mounting a Avalon heatsink on a Hasfast mining board.  The capital costs of immersion cooling are higher but they have a long lifespan long enough to support multiple generations of ASIC hardware.  The tank itself has no moving parts and the mechanism for cooling the condenser can be adapted to the location.

2) SHA-2 ASICS are extremely energy dense and the the density has been rising.  One reason that immersion cooling has never caught on in the server world is that while a server may use a lot of power (say 1200W for high end quad core, high memory server) it occupies a relatively large volume.  This mean a large amount of (very expensive) working fluid is needed.  Now one "could" redesign a server to be more compact but then you trade reduced fluid cost for higher custom fabrication costs.  It is a lose-lose without massive (i.e. millions of servers) economies of scale.   Bitcoin ASICs are very energy dense and getting more energy dense.  Take a look at HashFast or Cointerra.  300W+ in a board that is 100mm by 300mm.  This brings its own complications.  We have gone from low capacity heatsinks and fans (ASICMiner/Avalon) to Copper Heat Pipe CPU Coolers (KNC) to Waterblocks (HF & Cointerra). 

[bitcoin.newsfeed]

Do you think that AM is still retaining something from dividends? I don't think so, from where? For last div we had 375 BTC from mining & 170 from franchising, it gives you 0.00136/share (without expenses), despite this we received awesome 0.0029/share (more than double), thanks to HW sales maybe. This week seem to be slowest ever, AM is not in rush and we'll likely see another ATL dividends.

Im pretty sure divs are retained. Since friedcat claimed this will move on some weeks and the divs constantly dropped over the weeks. If the retaining would have stopped then iam sure we would have seen a bigger div one week. I doubt that the retaining only is 10% so that we wouldnt notice when it stops.

You say bigger divs ... from where? BTCs aren't growing on trees, AM has BTCs from mining,sales and franchising.

1. Please show me from where should be these BTC retained?
2. And tell me for what? AM has already millions cash on accounts another millions in products and thousands of BTCs surplus in AM wallets, check last financial statement

[KS]

...
1. Please show me from where should be these BTC retained?
...

Not mining, but possibly hardware sales.

It's not really the time to worry about a 10% difference in divs (number totally made up), they're going down to zero ATM. Mining revenue is exponentially decreasing and so is hardware sale revenue (since the price is tied to the potential mining revenue generated by the equipment).

Hopefully AM will rise again, but now, it's winter time.

[chriswilmer]

Hmm... AM is having a lucky mining day.