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FortuneJack Casino refuses to pay 20 BTC that I had won from a jackpot simply because they said that there was bugged money in play. A user suggested I should post here with the hopes of getting some input from the community. Their website is www.fortunejack.com (http://www.fortunejack.com). There's a TL:DR below for those who want to know the basic gist of it.

Hello, someone on BTCointalk said that I should inquire to you about a problem I have recently had with FJ if you could please take a look.

Hello FortuneJack community my username is < username removed > on the website known popularly as fortunejack.com. I am coming to you today as a recent player on it's website who has not been paid my earnings and have been robbed because of a bug which occured on one of there games. Below is a full break down of the events that have occurred.

(TL;DR below)

Yesterday, I had made a small deposit to FortuneJack. They had recently sent me a notifcation asking to try a new game and I was intrigued. During the game I had accrued some amount of funds roughly amounting 2 BTC. I, in my belief was that I had acquired these winnings fairly without any fraudulent or illegal play. Later I try to make a small withdrawal of roughly a quarter of my winnings around .45 BTC, which then said was undergoing review. I thought everything was fine up till this point.

This is where it gets interesting. As the night progresses, I am still on the site gambling for nearly 8 hours, eventually heading over to there plinko page. I keep playing and playing and then the jackpot hit. You should understand I was literally speechless when this happened. It was a payout of 20 BTC.

About 15 minutes later however, all the funds in my account were subtracted and later they had claimed that my winnings on Adrenaline were obtained due to a bug, and that they therefore would have to penalize ALL the money I acquired. Clearly this is unjustifiable. Even if the winnings I won in Adrenaline were from a bug. I had been on the casino website for nearly 8 hours. I am sure I have wagered over 10000x my initial deposit. Even if the casino were to claim that I won a small amount from a bug, the plinko bet was won fair and square. They even know this because they have nothing to say about it, but simply because of the Adrenaline game which THEY advertised me to play, they are refusing my winnings. I am coming to the community here today to see what they have to say about this. I am being robbed for playing a game they had suggested to me?

TL;DR Won a total of 22 BTC -20 from Plinko jackpot 1000x and 2 from Adrenaline. Fortunejack siezed all earnings claiming a bug from the game Adrenaline which was advertised by them.

This is a simple copy and paste of the original draft I had posted on another popular site that mediates online gambling called www.AskGamblers.com (http://www.AskGamblers.com) You can find the whole conversation thread regarding this incident here. https://www.askgamblers.com/casino-complaints/fortunejack-casino-uses-excuse-for-bug-in-one-game-to-refuse-payment-of-another-games-jackpot (https://www.askgamblers.com/casino-complaints/fortunejack-casino-uses-excuse-for-bug-in-one-game-to-refuse-payment-of-another-games-jackpot)

I know it is a long shot and I know you guys may have questions of your own that you would like to ask, so feel free and I will respond accordingly. I am admitting 0 fault or liability and placing 100% gross negligence towards the casino and it's staff members, as well as management.

Thank you for your time.

I''ve seen this countless times.  Whenever you win big at these casinos they always say there was some type of bug or they wont let you withdraw for verification reasons.  They are scammers plain and simple.

Hello Dear Player,



As a FortuneJack Casino Representative, I would like to issue a final response on this thread to clear up the situation.



We have launched an investigation within the company for this very delicate case which involved several departments, including thorough relations with game developers to determine if the win was made from the bug money. This is what we have finally concluded:



In the attached file you can see Bet ID (first column), Spin ID (second column), Real BPS (third column), User BPS (fourth column), Bet Amount (fifth column), Win Amount (sixth column), Key (seventh column) and Hash (eighth column). In the usual cases of winning Win Amount equals of Bet Amount multiplied on RealBPS.



WinAmount = BetAmount × RealBPS



View Bet History:   https://drive.google.com/file/d/1iLLzeap4MdHwMeVyun3lHA2JxUkPG8lg/view?usp=sharing

As we can see in the file Win Amounts are almost the same every time and are more than Bet Amount × Real BPS. Based on these facts we can state that bet from the player was affected by the bug from the game and finally, an inadequate winning was made.



Also, I’m attaching the screenshot of our back-office. (all the personal information is hidden due to a privacy policy.) In this screenshot, you can see that in every bet BPS is 200 which is another proof of the sad happening on the game site and evidence that game had an unexpected and undetermined bug.

https://imgur.com/a/xNcg85q (https://imgur.com/a/xNcg85q)



As said in our Terms & Conditions and I believe that any casino representative would agree with me, we are not able to issue a winning made with bug money. According to all mentioned above and because of the bet made by verusfides was with money earned by the bug we are unable to consider winning as a relevant.



We, of course, realize the delicacy of the situation and we are not trying to put the blame on players. We understand this is the inconvenience and we are deeply sorry for this confusing situation.



But despite everything and our positive attitude to the user verusfides, we have to strictly follow our rules this is the only way we can react in this case.



The Player has already received Large Bug Bounty (0.2 BTC) plus his initial deposit back, and as a personal present from me, 30 Free Spins with minimum x2 wagering requirement. I am afraid this is all we can do here, I was personally curating this case and wanted to be 100% sure, that's why it took a little bit of time. The Player himself is a very gentle and polite human, and casino staff shared deep sympathy towards him, but in this case, there is nothing else we could do. We are deeply sorry for the inconvenience, but consider that our treatment, in this case, is entirely fair.

Also, I want to mention that this is the misuse of scam accusation rules because there is nothing in this situation which should be considered as a scam.

Cheers,

If it was really a bug, then it was handled rather properly.

Actually, they didn't need to do any of this.

Why does this require me to sign in to gmail? Make it publicly accessible.

Just go away.

I think you're misunderstanding. The bug was from a previous game. They did not give out knowledge to it's players of the bug being in affect even though they had already known of the issue at hand. I played that game upon their notifications and their advertising and in between that game and the plinko game where I won the jackpot 13 hours later they failed to notice anybody of the situation at hand or to even show any sort of customer support regarding the situation. They were only concerned with reacquiring the jackpot I had hit and were quick to say they can not issue the money to me because it is from bugged money. Yet these people can not prove that it was from the bugged money alone or if it was with the bugged money at all. I had money I had personally deposited to play initially. You'd have to understand that this was within the course of 13 hours and I had played on the website all day and on all different games. I did not immediately jump from a bugged game to the Plinko game where I had hit the jackpot. They fail to acknowledge their own Limits of Liability rules and only adhere to this one rule: 7. Bets and any winnings made during malfunctioning of a game shall be void. Any subsequent Games or Services that you participate in with funds obtained from a malfunctioning Game shall also be void.

However lets look at the whole Limits of Liability rules they lay out for their players:

1. Your participation in the Games and Services is solely at your own risk. No warranty regarding the use of the Website, Games or Services is provided by us.We do not warrant that the software, Games, Services or the Website (collectively: “our services”) are appropriate for you or for their purpose.

2. We do not warrant that our services are free from any errors.

3. We do not warrant that our services are free from interruptions.

4. We are not liable for any damages, expenses, or losses which may or may not have arisen from the use of our services.

5. Nothing contained herein shall be considered as excluding FortuneJack of liability in cases where exclusion of liability would be illegal under the relevant laws, including in cases caused by our gross negligence.

6. Bets and any winnings made during malfunctioning of a game shall be void. Any subsequent Games or Services that you participate in with funds obtained from a malfunctioning Game shall also be void.

7. Our maximum liability in relation to your use of the Website shall not exceed the value of the wagers you placed in respect to the wager or product that the liability arose from, or otherwise exceed 30 BTC or equivalent monetary value.


I repeatedly question them about the rules that lay above and below their rule that stripped me of my jackpot in the first place yet they refuse to reply to anything related to those rules. They were in gross negligence for not warning players before hand and allowing a malfunctioning game to be allowed to be playable even after they were notified and they clearly knew the situation at hand. My jackpot was only 20 BTC yet it states in any liability that is directly caused by the influence of FortuneJack they would pay out no more than up to 30 BTC max. Yet I have had to stay up nights to respond to them because we live on different time zones. Only to have them delay me another day, and then the day becomes a week, the week now becomes three weeks and now soon to be a month. The other thing is, if these people even at once considered the well-being of their players and had that much respect in regards to myself or any other person on the website. They would have at least suggested a courteous notion to ask when the best time to reach me would be. These people haven't done a single thing in the right. So please don't side with them when they are simply not showing you the whole picture. I am and have been willing to show everyone that this Casino is fully neglecting the people who make such an establishment possible.

They had so much of a nerve to ask me would a casino pay out any money won from a bug. I told them a casino would not allow a bugged machine to run rampant for more than half a day so they could strip it's players at the door as they try to withdraw.

I'm not really sure why you continue to bang on the drums regarding this one.. Everything has been explained to you but you are still trying to find some sort of loophole to get your ineligible win.

Just drop it.

If you have a legal issue, you ask gamblers?

And if you are injured, you go to the bakery?

You're convincing me more so than ever that you have some part in all of their decision. I'm not the one using one rule in the plethora of Terms and Conditions to avoid paying a player. That's the FortuneJack casino so stop trolling when you can't even solidify a good reason why the Casino shouldn't pay me. Just go back to sidelining and let the big boys talk it out ok? No need to get your brain all worked up in information you clearly don't understand or comprehend.

They shouldn't pay you because there was a bug in the game that made you win a bunch of money. Sure, they should have caught it earlier but it was a bug nonetheless.

Out of curiosity, what was your initial deposit?

Could you have made the bets you did on Plinko without winning the first 2 BTC?

During the time when he made the bets for Plinko and won the jackpot, nothing of his account balance was declared as bug.

Afterwards ForuneJack is only allowed to cancel money he unfustifiably received through the bug, but not his whole account balance or winnings.

If my bank puts mistakenly or by a bug $10,000 to my account balance and I transfer it to an investment platform and win $100,000 and transfer it back to my bank account, then my bank can only withdraw the mistakenly given $10,000 and not my whole $100,000!

However, verusfides is a typical brain wash victim!

First he drives cars without insurance while he could have played with consumer protection service inclusive and after being scammed he asks gamblers and brain washers! :D

IIRC he deposited 0.009BTC and placed bets on plinko for ~0.02BTC.

So no, he could not have made those same bets without the ineligible winnings.

Interesting.

First of all, I'd like FortuneJack to be a bit more transparent and make that google doc actually viewable to the public.

I think there are a few fair ways to approach this.

1. Re-evaluate his bets on non-bugged games (plinko, etc.) and treat it as if his starting balance was .009 for this series of bets. Any bet made for more than his total balance would be considered an all in. Given he said he was gambling for 8+ hours, it is possible he would've started plinko with more than .009 and still won the entire jackpot.
2. Re-evaluate his bets on non-bugged games (plinko, etc.) and treat his bets as proportional to the size of his bankroll at the time. Assuming he tried to cash out .45 of the 2 BTC he won at the beginning, he would've started the legitimate betting series with a bankroll of 1.55 BTC, or 172x his deposit. So, simply reduce every bet by a factor of 172.

Considering it was ultimately FortuneJack's error, I think it would be fairest to go with the higher value of the approaches mentioned above.

The value for the second comes out to .116 BTC, meaning the additional bug bounty he received is only .09 BTC.

A closer look at the other wagers is necessary to determine the value from the first approach.

Provide evidence of that exact statement. I played in more than 20 games in 13 hours that night. You're willing to say 100% that that couldn't have been my deposit money? You can't satisfy that claim with any proof told you to stop trying to comment things you're severely unaware of. Idc how much of a model citizen you seem to be on bitcointalk because right now you're acting like FortuneJacks very own clown.

You deposited 0.009BTC, the game you were playing was the game where the bug happened, the game that you gave you a high balance. If you deposit 0.009BTC it is impossible for you to bet 0.0197BTC on a single spin/roll/game, is it not?

And I know you'll say "There's no way they can know if I would deposit again or not to bet that amount on plinko", but we can only look at the data that has been presented to us. We can't start thinking about what could have happened if something else would have happened.

Also let me add something on top of this. I had clearly made it aware even without the bug I would've kept depositing, as they can even see I deposited nearly 1600 USD after they had removed the jackpot funds from me. Show me proof they wouldn't have taken the jackpot under some flawed Liability Rule they have. It's amazing the amount of ignorance you're putting into this. I already know you don't read things all the way through so go on over to their limits of liability under terms and conditions and read every rule. Tell me why they're allowed to only keep the one rule that'll protect them from returning my funds to me while ignoring every other rule placed on there. You said to me I'm twisting words. What were am I twisting under those terms of liability that they are supposed to adhere by.

Wtf are you saying? Do you listen to your words before you type? Me depositing after is data that shows I would've kept going regardless of the bug. Also what you say is true in the regard that it would be impossible to bet that amount on a single roll, but by you denying the factors of all the other games that I had partaken that evening you are neglecting the deposit money that was in play at that current standing. Furthermore, if we delve further into that fact the amount I used to make that Plinko bet could've been funds that I had won with my balance in those other games.

So this is where the big question comes into play. The amount is a little shy of 2x my initial deposit. Meaning from the bug money that would be roughly 5% of that bug money which had actually been used. Also to point that if you can give and take all the funds that I may or may not have won with my deposit would be only slightly greater or lesser or maybe not even any of the bug money.

But it is a useless discussion because you didn't win on those other games with your initial deposit, you won on the other games from the ineligible win you had on Adrenaline, which was your first game. What happened after really doesn't matter as it is, again, "what if" scenarios.

I'll stop responding now, if I were you I'd talk to MadZ as he seems to be willing to help you out.

Then by their standards since I had not used up that whole 2.0 BTC to get to that bet and the equal or lesser value of 5% of it was used they should only be allowed to subtract 5% of that plinko wager since that would indeed be the amount of bugged money that was in play BECAUSE they can not 100% ascertain that it was with either my initial deposit or the casinos bugged money. Am I being clear to you?

Lets follow your scenario since this right here is the pinnacle of stupidity. I stated I only played that game because of their suggestions and advertising. They advertised this game while it was bugged. So since they had coaxed me into playing a game that I would've most likely disregarded had it not been their suggestion for me to play I would not be in this very chatroom arguing with a belligerent who only seems to be fitting the pieces of the case at hand the way he sees fit for his own viewing. Talk about skewed and one sided perception right?

You really can't use choice two because they've seen all my bets that day. They know I barely touched that bug money except that one occasion in where I tried to pull out a few BTC (I believed I was ahead and that I won the game through fair play). In all of the transactions they can confirm I did not bet in any extreme or outrageous manner. I treated all earnings as if I had won them and that I should do in my best not to lose such gained winnings by trying to blow it all for a huge payout.

So for them to 172x in funds I had not even touched would be absurd. Other than that I appreciate your statistical revealings.

Sorry for the link issue, the link in response has now been updated and bets are now public and can be viewed on this link https://drive.google.com/file/d/1iLLzeap4MdHwMeVyun3lHA2JxUkPG8lg/view?usp=sharing

Are these all of the bets of the users made on the game?

This are bet history of player on adrenaline, wins made of the bug money. User just spinned all around x200 and to be short, incredible advantage was taken over the bug. If community wishes so, we are open to publicly post any bet history of related data as well.

What constitutes a losing bet if BPS is always positive? How do you calculate the profit/loss from each roll? Where are the other bets he made after the bugged game?

I just assumed I just hit start to play stop when finish. That's all it said to do in their directions. Don't know what the number 200 is referring to. Thought that was just the times amount I won.

and no I was in there 13 hours I hardly stayed on adrenaline for maybe 2 hours at best.

Also I'd like your opinion on what I have realized and lmk what you thibk. So on their website, they have a free play currency which is virtually used for strats, and theories, and idk maybe find bugs? What is concerning to me is that they post on my original topic that they were planning on releasing the game with the bugs as a community Easter hunt of sorts. What's real baffling to me is. Why on earth would they freely allow the use of real money when they can use FJC to promote the game? Why would they go through the hassle of having to intentionally reset everyone's initial bankroll. Over allowing people to play with free funds to find the bugs? I mean if there whole means was to uncover bugs shouldn't that be the only logical option. I mean unless they planned to reduce the site's loss of profit that day. Is it crazy of me to think such an action be made possible by the casino?

Posting here again to update on Verusfides Case. As promised we decided to make more files public and to cut it short, we decided to make all records public. Here in this document, you see the whole betting history of the player from the beginning of the play on Adrenaline, where the bug affected his winnings to the alleged jackpot win on Plinko.

See Betting history from Verusfides here ==>> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/11r_GqS-eVadHHJxRAdCaVSqqBosQWz4y98F48CyvvPs/edit#gid=492165691

After making a deposit of 9.4mBTC  in sum player started to play Adrenaline game on our website. As we already said, the game was first tested in public in those days, and FortuneJack made an official announcement on it as well. We offered players a bug bounty as a gesture that we care and listen to our community and wanted to make all this game development process a community thing as well, so just put the game out and challenged players to find bugs in it.

At some point of the game, severe bug affected the play of some players online at that very moment. This is the moment when player Verusfides set auto cash out on 60. As you see from his bet history game starts to bug, and every bet turns out to be won and player suddenly after realizing this firstly doubles the bet and continues to play the bugged game and after 20 minutes or so raises auto cash out from 60 to 200 continuing to stream money from the bugged game. As you see in history, every single bet is won, and I am talking about 70 consecutive bets. I have already posted the formula making us think that the game was bugged. In the usual cases of winning Win Amount equals of Bet Amount multiplied on RealBPS. WinAmount = BetAmount × RealBPS, here it was all out of control. It does not require rocket science to conclude that the game had suffered a significant bug. And this is not an only player effected from the bug; actually, we learned about the bug from players, who wrote to our support that game was doing funny things and asked us to check it out.

We found the bug and improved it as soon as we could, it took time to determine all the players affected, some of them willingly wrote us themselves and gave the money back and have received a bug bounty, because, I don't know, every player knows that no casino on earth will issue a bug winning. Yes, this is unfortunate accident, but things like this happen, games sometimes are affected by bugs, and we improve it and issue bug bounty and go on.

But Verusfides continued to play, as you see from his game history and he moves on Plinko where alleged jackpot win has happened. 3 Hours after finishing playing on adrenaline Player moves to Plinko, where starts bets with 0.1mBTC and raising money from time-to-time, finally reaching a single bet of 25.6mBTC. In sum, the player had made more than 5 000 bets before reaching a point when the jackpot was won.

Firstly, as the discussion arose to this, there is no chance that player would have made 5 000 bets with this amount on a single bet with his deposit of 9.4mBTC, please review the betting history as a proof of this.

Secondly, this is not even a subject of discussion, as the win made from the bug abuse on our website has triggered a point in our T&C: Bets and any winnings made during malfunctioning of a game shall be void. Any subsequent Games or Services that you participate in with funds obtained from a malfunctioning Game shall also be void.

Thirdly, a player was communicated with this matters several times and at some point, has accepted to get Large Bug Bounty, which is 0.2btc, got his deposit back and also got 30 Free Spins with minimum x2 Wagering because, to be honest, I liked the guy and thought  giving him some additional bonus because of the trouble would have been a nice gesture. But after losing the amount he got from Casino, he started to ask for the money again.

We certainly can not continue with this, from files now made public, it's evident that player got winnings from bug money and rules are entirely clear with this - company has right to seize bug winnings.

Cheers,
David.

The user has already accepted/received the bug bounty? If so, that combined with the following:

= there's no case here. If anything, I'd be more inclined to tag the user for demanding the money after accepting the compensation.

c'mon verusfides how can you keep complaining after:


I know 0.2btc isn't that 20btc jackpot, but at least the casino was nice giving you this $740 as a bug bounty.

Sometimes casinos make mistakes and code fail, but if you find a bug that makes you win again and again, the right thing to do is to report it to the casino and not to exploit it. I learned this by the hard way when i was exploiting a bug on a casino and they decided to freeze my account with 0.05btc on it. I lost my money and get zero bug bounty for exploit it and not report it. After that, i had reported more than 5 bugs in different casinos and they always say thanks with a nice bounty.

Casinos appreciate users who report the bugs. Take this as a lesson and as a happy end, at least you get a nice prize, so wasn't just a waste of time.

I believe that doing this is actually illegal. If the demands started only after he lost the money (by gambling), it would be even more illegal. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Yes, here is also screenshot of him accepting the bounty. I was so disappointed with his action to be honest, because I really wanted to help and I told him that I was going on honeymoon next day and tried to solve the situation before. But apparently player just got the money and lost it and than started to demand money again, while I was on vacation :(

https://i.imgur.com/Q0WL1fI.png

Without bugged wins, was it possible for player to place plinko bet and all other bets before they played plinko?

If answer is no, case closed. If answer is yes, you own them 20BTC, it is simple as that.

Answer is no, irrespective of that the post above is enough evidence that FJ owes him nothing

What research took your staff so long that I did in the span of 30 minutes. I'm literally so dumbfounded by what you said I feel so bad that your own casino can't feed your correct information for you to relay back to your community that you are trying to look good for. Anyways moving on.

In this next post I will provide deposits that were made immediately after the management of FortuneJack stripped me of my winnings to prove to the community that in fact I would have gotten to this bet without the bugged money. I am just simply a player who does not like to deposit a gross amount of funds all at once and like to divide them into sections to try to limit my gambling habit. Please note that ALL deposits were made subsequently back to back to back to back to back. Showing even more likelihood that I would have gotten to that Plinko game no matter what kind of bug they try to blame.

https://i.imgur.com/Z1OZGwI.png

Lastly I'd like to hear why you insist on lying to the players and the community respectively. You did nothing to prevent such events from occurring. Would you still have us believe that you did not do this with the inclination of reversing everyone's winnings that day?  How about you show us the logs of every persons deposit you altered that night. Tell me this the not all seem fishy to all the players out there.

Keep it up David you're doing great. How many FortuneJack workers does it take to relay the correct transaction log of one player? I'm doing what seems to be taking you guys days and days to do. You guys just don't like your jobs or the way the casino direction goes right. Don't worry man I'm with you all the way. You're literally creating a tombstone for FortuneJack and you really just can't seem to stop.

Btw since you just released my information without my approval you don't really get to make any other choices for your company. I'll let them know what you did here. You really don't know how to act professionally do you. Thanks for that.

P.S. Don't bother trying to edit this information I'm letting your support be aware of your violation of privacy right now.

You really can't be anymore ignorant right now. I'm sorry but, your not gonna get past this one so easily. I'll make sure of it.

You again? Didn't I already explained to you what gross negligence is (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=774929.msg49164496#msg49164496) in FJ's ANN thread? Yet you still continue to claim what is not rightfully yours. Like I have said before if you have obtained substantial and unfabricated evidence showing that they have done a willful neglect on their job in spotting the bug before you got an error in your winnings you must show it to us. Because just posting here playing around your words won't really help you progress at your case at all. Just be happy that you got a refund from your deposit because of the bug.

I just did jackass or are you too stupid to read the information given to you? Furthermore David and his bandwagon of associates claimed I was only in the casino for three hours going straight from Adrenaline to Plinko the posts above show the clear timeline of events. So you can actually take time to do some actual reading or stfu and stop trying to support a man who clearly has no idea how to approach this situation in a professional matter.

If you haven't noticed I'm not planning on approaching you dejects kindly anymore because you clearly comment just to troll and arouse accusations of things you don't even know. He tried to show his evidence and I'm showing mine, so lets see who's facts actually fucking add up then shall we?

Privacy violation?

https://s14-eu5.startpage.com/cgi-bin/serveimage?url=https%3A%2F%2Fc1.staticflickr.com%2F9%2F8253%2F8695964086_ed8e1082b4_c.jpg&sp=e21db60cc45cd52ebc60dcddfa820223

If you take a compensation (in this case a bug bounty), you are legally entitled to nothing. Demanding money like this afterwards is in fact illegal.

Forced upon me. Not given. Only agreed when they made it seem like I had no choice. So again not doing anything illegal.

Doesn't matter if they tell you 100 times that it is only what they can give, once you accept any compensation you lose legal ground for anything.

I reported the photo that was there, but I have the screenshot. He released my Discord SN along with the photo of myself I had in it without my knowledge or my consent. Can't really look at this guy too professionally after that.

That'd be true if they didn't forcibly change the amount that was in my account to begin with. Also let's not jump to conclusions you don't know what Curacao's jurisdiction will say.

You could argue that leaking the connection to this user account and an exact discord username was a mistake. However, the photo thing is nonsense. I literally see your photo right now, as does anyone else who is on at least one discord server as you. That is in no way private information.

Not really. You can look up similar cases and any lawyer is going to advise you not to take any kind of compensation in any form (gift cards, items, balances, whatever). I think you can find some information in certain subreddits if you don't feel like reading verdicts.

They'll probably shrug it off. There's a reason certain types of businesses settle in Curacao.

Private information is who I choose to disclose the information to. So if it is a discord group I disclose that I am ok with all the members seeing my information I amd allowing them to view my profile and my username. See the point I'm trying to make whether it's a picture of my face from 20 feet away or from 5 feet away. He's not allowed to disclose anything without asking first or taking time to crop out the information to prevent other users from seeing.

Yeah, yeah. Go ahead and sue him for "disclosing private information" that anyone can access at any given time. Great arguments you are making here.

What? Who said I'm gonna sue him? People attempt those things? From nearly opposite ends of the world? It is valid enough information to prevent him from being able to partake any further in this case. Or maybe fire him altogether. Haven't seen lots of companies willing to keep people who can't seem to follow basic privacy acts.

No it is not.

Then complain to FJ administration directly not to the forum's community.

Last time a casino didn't make a payout for reasons that were beyond their control, they were labeled as scammers and everyone wearing a signature advertisement for them was harassed until they removed the signature.

Now that Lauda is the one advertising for a company that has fallen victim to their own poor operation and refusing to make payouts, it will be interesting to watch the double standard unfold.

Obviously if the player played by the rules and won, they are due the jackpot.  I'm sure FortuneJack isn't going to find all the people negatively effected by the bug and give them their money back...

Source?[1] Not all "reasons beyond their control" fall into the same bag.

This is not double standard, this is how it is usually done nowadays. If you accept something as a compensation, then it is over for you from a legal perspective (a notable case where people were advised not to accept anything was recent Bethesda's shenanigans). ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

---

[1] Betcoin maybe? Not even remotely similar.

Actually I'm asking for the logs of every player that played Adrenaline that night and see how many accounts they had reversed by the end of the night using the bug as an excuse. Don't you guys find it funny that they didn't even need to have the live deposits available for that game. If they did mean to release the game in order for players to find bugs. Wouldn't they have just let players use FJC(freeplay currency on its website) only. Kind makes you wonder was this really just some kind of unknown freak accident or was it really indeed a premeditated incident.

If you think that you can win, then nobody is preventing you from suing them. A 'might-be-right-might-be-wrong' case on this forum (depending on who sees the case and how) won't bring you back any money.

This is my current opinion on bugs and compensations and we can leave it at that.

Of course it is...  Considering it is the exact opposite response you would and have had if/when you weren't wearing their signature.  Funny how your ethics depend on whether or not you're paid by the offender.  Your word is meaningless and your opinions clouded by greed.  This is yet another example of why you belong nowhere near any sort of position of trust.

Yeah. That'd be true if I thought I might be wrong or might right, but I'm 100% sure I'm right and 200% sure they're wrong. After all David seemed really flustered when I started mentioning why they wouldn't release a bugged game to be only playable with FJC and not real deposits. Started declaring war on me and here we are now. Guys tryna find proof of my wrong doing when his own support can't even give him the right information. Yet he has his FortuneJackals come once in awhile to try and fan the flames, yet when I tell them they either have to be stupid or physically blind to be unable to see the evidence in case that I have shown in response to his evidence. They just dissipate and come back once more when they're summoned like zombies being mind controlled by one slightly smarter zombie.

You really need to stop spreading unecessary lies and derailing the thread. Thanks.

Here I was referring to how the forum members will react to this thread, some might side with you others might not. Recent legal precedence does not (as I've mentioned), but that doesn't necessarily mean you'd lose if you actually sued them.

Also btw, I'm pretty sure he's asking the people with signatures to respond to the forums. I haven't asked anyone to defend or represent me. The people that are defending me are just random passerbys who obviously see the poor state in which you guys are assuming your position so I have a majority favor of unbiased people who don't agree with FortuneJack, where as FortuneJack has... it's affiliates. Really looking good there boys. Keep it up.

You really need to stop being tied to scams.  Literally everything you touch turns into a scam.  ICOs you escrow, signatures you wear, somehow people always end up having their money stolen, and it always seems to not be your fault, then it happens again.  

I swear we're gonna see a wave of users with no signatures just because I posted this arguing against me. Well at least we can't say I didn't see that coming. Good luck with the endeavors and good luck defending anything David posted because he seemingly just chose to ignore the other 10 hours I played on the website and just tried to wing it and reach the finish with his shoes untied.

Can't see any credibility when you compare his evidence to mine. Yet in fact few hours from not guaranteed he'll jump right back on here and say something close to his previous statement because you guys like to ride that bug pony over and over again. Just can't seem to point out anything different. Where I pointed out everything that was wrong with this case from it's inception. Regarding rules, bugged money, my money, removal of my money, and the companies gross negligence. So bring the troopers out. I'm ready to hear every half-assed speech coming out of FortuneJack and it's investors/sig holders.

I'm with Lauda on this one, in an open case like this one you cannot choose what information you just want to show as in any legal court that can be considered as withholding information/evidence. After all you are not asking any permission from FJ when you are posting your screenshots by yourself, why can't they do it too? I know its hard to look at but with your convo with David it seems to look like you really appreciated that they refunded your deposit back, what it looks to me now is you are unsatisfied with what you got (who knows what happened in your mind) and you are trying to extort the money out from FJ.

FJ has not asked me to do anything, ever IIRC. I think I found it either randomly looking at the section or by looking through the post history of the troll Butterscotch Cartman; can't remember anymore.

I'm not a FJ affiliate and I would strongly advise you against making false accusations of collusion as that will: 1) Kill your case. 2) Kill your reputation. This wouldn't be the first time that it backfired on someone; nobody likes liars/conspiracy loons.

Lol, shots fired.

Whoa poncho relax I didn't say you, but makes you wonder what made you jump to that conclusion on your own when I never brought up any names. *thinking*

While wearing an FJ signature.  You can't make this stuff up folks.  Lauda really is this delusional. 

https://talkimg.com/images/2024/01/11/sxsJN.png

Also is that advice you're giving to David? Because I think he really needed to hear that from someone I just didn't want to be the one to say it.

Says the biggest liar & scammer on the forum

Nothing new to see here. Another Fortune Jack scam and their paid shills defending them.

Lol dang, think there's people out to get you Lauda. Is this the conspiracy I've been warned about?!

Admit that you don't deserve the 20 BTC. As far as I can understand the issue, you:

-saw a new game introduced
-then saw a bug bounty for it
-then played the game
-then you notice that you're repeatedly winning it
-then instead of reporting the bug, you continued to play the game repeatedly for a number of hours
-then you think that you deserve the win

LOL

sigh I hate the fact that I have to repost this story every God damn time one of these comes along.

Hopefully this clears it for you and the next 5 clones exactly like you assuming exactly the same thing.

Hello, someone on BTCointalk said that I should inquire to you about a problem I have recently had with FJ if you could please take a look.

Hello FortuneJack community my username is < username removed > on the website known popularly as fortunejack.com. I am coming to you today as a recent player on it's website who has not been paid my earnings and have been robbed because of a bug which occured on one of there games. Below is a full break down of the events that have occurred.

(TL;DR below)

Yesterday, I had made a small deposit to FortuneJack. They had recently sent me a notifcation asking to try a new game and I was intrigued. During the game I had accrued some amount of funds roughly amounting 2 BTC. I, in my belief was that I had acquired these winnings fairly without any fraudulent or illegal play. Later I try to make a small withdrawal of roughly a quarter of my winnings around .45 BTC, which then said was undergoing review. I thought everything was fine up till this point.

This is where it gets interesting. As the night progresses, I am still on the site gambling for nearly 8 hours, eventually heading over to there plinko page. I keep playing and playing and then the jackpot hit. You should understand I was literally speechless when this happened. It was a payout of 20 BTC.

About 15 minutes later however, all the funds in my account were subtracted and later they had claimed that my winnings on Adrenaline were obtained due to a bug, and that they therefore would have to penalize ALL the money I acquired. Clearly this is unjustifiable. Even if the winnings I won in Adrenaline were from a bug. I had been on the casino website for nearly 8 hours. I am sure I have wagered over 10000x my initial deposit. Even if the casino were to claim that I won a small amount from a bug, the plinko bet was won fair and square. They even know this because they have nothing to say about it, but simply because of the Adrenaline game which THEY advertised me to play, they are refusing my winnings. I am coming to the community here today to see what they have to say about this. I am being robbed for playing a game they had suggested to me?

TL;DR Won a total of 22 BTC -20 from Plinko jackpot 1000x and 2 from Adrenaline. Fortunejack siezed all earnings claiming a bug from the game Adrenaline which was advertised by them

If the OP would have been issued the bug bounty from his encounter from the new game, he could have used that money to play the 2nd game and win the jackpot.

I don’t see any reason why the new game being buggy would affect the OPs ability to win the jackpot.

I am not surprised to see certain people wearing a FJ signature defending FJ, even though they have taken an opposite stance in similar situations in the past.

Jesus Christ finally someone that thinks with some logic.

My whole problem would be the fact he was allowed to play for apparently 13 hours. If FJ was being messaged by other players about this bug, why weren't all funds from everyone playing this game frozen? Why was the player allowed to keep playing? What times frames are we looking at between the bug starting, players reporting the bug, user making x number of WD attempts?

Either incompetence or because they thought he would lose eventually and they wanted to keep his money

Possibly correct. We prob wouldn't be discussing this had there not been a large jackpot won.

I'm not a gambler and never used FortuneJack, but that sounds like something a casino would do--especially a crypto one.

My question is whether OP was gambling with funds he obtained via the bug when he hit the jackpot, and whether that's acceptable or not.  I honestly don't have a hard and fast opinion on that, but it would seem to be that if this was the case (that he didn't legitimately win the money he used to win the jackpot), FJ is in the right.  And that's what their argument is, too. 

What would happen if you were in a real casino and knew a slot machine was broken in such a way that the casino no longer had the edge, and the casino didn't happen to know that.  You use the broken machine to win some money that you later bet on the blackjack table--and you win big there.  Should the casino honor any of your bets?  I really don't know the rules, but it seems sketchy on the gambler's part in that case, because he knows he's playing a broken machine.  Sure you could say, "Well, that's not my problem, it's the casino's" but that doesn't sound right to me.

With what was presented here, I think it's at best way too early to start calling FJ sig campaigners as scam promoters, especially when there are long-standing grudges obviously coming out and the typical mudslinging as a result.  If OP broke FJ's rules, he shouldn't keep the money.  If FJ doesn't have any rules covering such a situation, they should pay out.  I'm just going to see how this goes down.

 I have not gone into much details of your problem, i don't know if you got scammed or trying to scam but I skimmed real fast though the comments and here is a thing you should know

- You still reserve the right to file a lawsuit even after accepting compensation as long as you have not signed a legal agreement that forbids you from suing them for the exact same case , if you signed on something like that, then it's game over, if not ! then you can still demand your 20btc + compensation.

---

depending on the proof / judge and what law-zone the website is obligated to follow your chances of winning the case can vary from guaranteed to nothing.
20BTC is a lot of money, call a lawyer and seek advice, but keep in mind if you are attempting to b.s and they can prove anything against you, you can be in deep shit too.

however there are two things i find "funny" from both of you

This goes to you .

1- why did you wait all this long to post on scam accusation, and if you were 100% sure you are right, why did you accept a compensation of 0.2btc only?

This goes to  FortuneJack

2- if you were so sure this player was abusing a bug on your system, why did you have to compensate him + give him his deposit back?

I got to that conclusion as well and that would fall under their negligence would it not?

So was this game Adrenaline possible to lose at? Or could you only win. Surely there are safeguards that would trigger and alert somebody that there is somethin irregular happening in a game.

Timezone also plays a role. They seem to be mostly around during the 8 to 5 workday (Curacao time).

Apparently he gambled away his bug bounty. Unless something else was meant with the 'lost' statement by FJ.

Good question. Although they seem to have some sort of bug bounty, I wouldn't award anything to an abuser.

Apparently it bugged out at some point which led to 70 consecutive wins.

---

You'd get stripped away from all winnings and get kicked out. It would be similar to how they handle people that attempt cheating in 'traditional' ways.

I was told no matter what they couldn't do anything more for me regarding the situation at the time. I kept pushing which is why we're here now also it's because the original post was started on their thread page and I was suggested by another user to come here and I sought this page as a way of expanding my case and get more awareness from other users and not just from the users of the FortuneJack web page.

Original post can be found here starts at I believe page 305 https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=774929.6160 (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=774929.6160)

See this is another problem I'm having with the way he's telling the story to people. The story he told me had me convinced they knew of this situation hours before hand and that they were well aware of the game causing this problem.

if they knew that the game had an error and kept it open then its all their fault and they have to pay.

There is also the fact that verusfides had a good plinko seed. Had he have lost all of his money, he may have decided to redeposit and still end up playing plinko, winning the jackpot. It's not uncommon for gamblers to keep adding more money when they lose.

In my opinion, he should be paid out for the plinko jackpot as it was a legitimate win; there was no bug on plinko. All other losses should be deducted from the plinko win amount. Perhaps all of his Adrenaline bets could be fixed to show the correct winning/losing amount, and have his net loss/profit added to his plinko win amount.

Which is why I have been so adamant and relentless thus far in my attempt to request they refund my jackpot.

See, I would agree with this but how the hell do you prove that?  It also wouldn't make sense unless FJ really thought OP was going to lose everything.  Otherwise it would make more sense for the casino to step in and put a stop to it before a problem like this arose.  The only thing the casino would have to gain would be OP's original deposit, right?  I mean in the case that FJ knew it would eventually deny his claim to his winnings and let him play anyway.  

I don't know if FJ would do that; if it would be worth the hassle for them; and how anyone could show their intent to do that.  Again, I'm not really taking FJ's side, but I'm looking at OP's assertion with a skeptical eye.

Edit:
You got that right.  And what DarkStar_ said basically what I said, the whole thing rests on whether they knew about the bug and chose not to fix it and let OP continue to play in the hopes that he'd lose his original deposit.  I'm not sure a reputational smear is worth that for a casino, but who knows. 

Say verusfides never tried to withdraw(that was halted and needed further approval).. continued to play with the 2btc he had won.. loses it all. Stops playing. Would FortuneJack have contacted him that the game he was playing was bugged and caused him to lose his initial deposit and that they would refund it for him.

After the bug occurred, in FortuneJack's point of view, there is no point in fixing his balance until the player decides to withdraw everything. All FortuneJack has to gain is verusfides's deposit, but they have nothing to lose. If verusfides won (like in this case), they could blame the bug, and return only his deposit. FortuneJack is basically freerolling verusfides - letting them place bets, taking his money if he lost, and not paying out if he won. This is not okay.

I don't know if there was more malice behind this, but if FortuneJack knew verusfides was a plinko player and had a good plinko win coming up from his seed, they might have wanted him to win using "fake balance" to avoid paying out a large win.


I bet the answer would be no.

dont know.

but OP writes:


and i dont know if this is true or not.

thats why I wrote "if they knew".

there is to much money on the table to hope that everybody is honest...... maybe somebody can prove it.

This seems like a conspiracy theory at best, do you really think they are monitoring players like that? Especially ones who make a 0.009BTC deposit?

Probably not if they aren't even monitoring their own games paying 70 consecutive wins in a row and immediately contacting the effected players.

Hogwash. Your attempts to paint the OP as an abuser and a cheat is lame.

In FortuneJack's thread own words:

Why are they sympathetic towards the OP if he is a cheat? It makes no sense at all.
 

FJ is going to claim he would have not had the funds to make the bet on plinko had he not bet the buggy game 1st. We have no idea how much btc the OP has and whether he would have redopsited on plinko trying to win. The winning bet was rather high(.025btc i believe) and compared to his .0094 initial deposit amount, I would guess the OP would not have been betting .025 bets on his own money.(Obviously i could be wrong but the facts show this to be a reasonable assumption.)

IMO FJ was contacted by multiple players(see quote below) and was aware the game was buggy. How long between the players reporting the bugs and the bug being fixed? Why were the players testing the game with real money? If you're gonna basically run a BETA test, why not use the FJ currency as mentioned by someone before in this soon to be mega thread?

If players are risking real money seems like FJ is saying we are willing to take the loss?

In reality, the OP most likely would not have won a 20btc jackpot on his own funds, but the bug issue is so fucked up I almost think FJ has no choice here but to pay the Jackpot. They took the risk to let the public use real money for testing their new game, they should assume the risks of the events that transpired after his play on the bugged game.

They only way to truely settle something like this is by getting a lawyer. Everybody is dying to give you their opinion on this but it isn't going to help you at all.

Emphasis on "more malice". I highly doubt this is the case, but it is a possibility. I think it's most likely that FortuneJack is incompetent and/or wanted to freeroll verusfides. Occam's razor.

OP is no saint here. He could have showed good moral judgement and messaged support. He instead decided to exploit the bug and ended up hitting a jackpot. Be it not for FJ irresponsible error of letting the public play a possibly buggy game with real money(all new games could have bugs, this is why you do BETA tests first), I would be vote for the casino.

I guess that depends on several factors such as:

Do they have a specific system in place that can detect undetected bugs?
Did they have the correct personnel available at the time? (They should at all times, but perhaps they didn't at this time, right?)
Do they have it as normal protocol to monitor all games at all times? (Like some high tech security center at a vegas casino ((doubt it))).

Not disagreeing with you, but it is pretty reasonable to have staff monitor a newly released game that was basically in a beta state where players were betting real money.

There have been and currently are companies large and small, that grow too fast too quick. They see the influx of money and profit coming in and they get greedy. They do not hire the correct amount of staff, instill the proper securities, and instead spend the money on marketing.
Any online casino/exchange that I can answer No to any single one of your questions asked would raise the largest red flag. (think exchange and you get a big ol clear picture of past happenings and why this should be worrying)

We all know why they're registered in some buttfuck nowhere shell company haven areas. So that lawyers don't even think it worthwhile to be involved.

Quite reasonable, but these thing happen in every industry (see teeGUMES's post while I was writing). If there was no malice, then it was handled properly. However, if there was malice then the casino deserves consequences. Given that they had very little to gain from this, I highly doubt someone intentionally acted malliciously (given that you could destroy your reputation for pocket change).


Could say the same for Facebook, heh.

I wasn't the one calling the OP a "saint". That would be fortunejack in their attempt at sweettalking the op into abandoning his win.


Hush money.

Actually I read through some archives and they do have some program called a PBA? Which is short for Player Bet Analysis. I'm guessing it gives insight into whether players were betting very erratically as if they had acquired funds through exploits of casino grounds. It's in one of the resolved posts in AskGamblers FortuneJack complaints and mentioned in a staff members response to a player. Prior to that I had no knowledge they had that kind of software for players.

FJ should clarify why this was not caught by this detection system (if it exists/is being used?) or the staff sooner.

---

Also I'm reminding you again to merge posts. :)

but I wanted it to be a separate post and unique in its own right as a means to end the ongoing problem with the casino in hopes we may all move on to greater things in life. Like taking unexpected shots at Lauda unexpectedly and out of the blue. :)

The quality of your posts is sharply decreasing. Stop trying to pander to the side that are partially against FJ/Lauda/FJ Sigs and stick to posting facts.

Sorry I'm just trying to be a little hopeful seeing as how the solution provided above are based strictly on facts. I'm simply demonstrating a solution where the casino could deem this scenario as something that would have most likely happened, if they had acted upon their initial wrongdoing sooner. I am in no way saying they should not acknowledge what clearly shows their own negligence but, allowing them to save a little face. I have already stated it's almost embarrassing  in regards to what the FJ representative David has shown for evidence. Which doesn't even come close to the amount of information I have provided this thread without any hidden logs. I was just trying to lighten the mood on the situation as it has caused a great amount of stress on me, but in no way have I forgotten why I have been forced to start a thread to prove to the casino and it's staff the way they are proceeding regarding my case is highly unprofessional. I advise you not to think so lightly of me that I would for a second forget how hard I have been fighting for this ever since they denied this from me.

They took compensation for Adrenaline. 20BTC came from plinko bet.

Player won $42M, casino said it was slot malfunction and she took compensation (free meal)
https://youtu.be/FmNiiu6QrAA?t=130
$42 Million Win a Slot Malfunction?
According to articles, case was investigated by Colorado Division of Gaming and she was payed additional 7$:
https://www.denverpost.com/2010/05/19/42-9-million-slot-jackpot-should-have-been-20/
https://spectrum.ieee.org/riskfactor/computing/software/woman-who-thought-she-won-42-million-at-casino-gets-2018

Similar case, player won €43M because of slot error, casino offered him free dinner which player denied, case was taken on a court of law and rumor says settlement was €1M:
http://www.comps4free.com/merlaku-bregenz-slots-jackpot/
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2215072/Casino-rejected-mans-40m-slot-machine-win-software-error-agrees-pay-1m-settle-claim.html
https://www.thelocal.ch/20121011/swiss-mans-jackpot-win-slashed-in-casino-deal

OP hire a lawyer. This is best you can do right now.

Credit to FortuneJack for making the bet history public. Although I disagree with their verdict, I appreciate the transparency in comparison to other casinos that have been in similar positions.

Here is my take on the matter after looking at the bets and withdrawal history more closely. I'd appreciate if both parties read it in its entirety before dismissing any points.

To start with, verusfides did receive 2+ BTC from the bugged rounds of Adrenaline. However, I think it is hard to say this is due to intentional abuse. Here is my reasoning for that:

1. Verusfides only doubled his bet sizing once, and that was after the second bugged round. I think this is pretty reasonable to do after doubling one's initial deposit, and 2 60x wins in a row doesn't necessarily indicate a game is bugged.
2. Adrenaline is essentially a re-skinned version of Moneypot. Setting an auto-cashout multiplier doesn't stop the player from manually cashing out at a certain point. Verus continued to manually cash out at low multipliers, even after upping the auto-cashout to 200x. If he was intentionally abusing what he perceived to be a bug, he would be losing money by doing this.
3. All of his higher wagers above .2 mBTC were not made during bugged rounds, and half of them did not have an auto cashout set. He actually lost money during this part.
4. Adrenaline was a recent addition to the website, and this was verusfides' first time playing. Owing to the nature of slot machine "jackpots", where users can trigger a set of bonus spins that award very high multipliers consecutively, it is entirely possible a new user might believe this to be an intended game mechanic.

Owing to the above reasons, I think it is fair to say that verusfides did not act in bad faith by continuing to play with his winnings.

The next question is did FortuneJack act in good faith as well?

According to FortuneJack's logs, verusfides immediately tried to cash out. This brought his bugged winnings to the site's attention. Indeed, FortuneJack manually reviewed his withdrawal (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=774929.msg48894380#msg48894380) and denied it. Rather than freezing his account, however, they allowed him to keep playing.

This means that FortuneJack was aware that verusfides' balance was illegitimate prior to winning the plinko jackpot, not after.

To me, it feels unethical to essentially "freeroll" a customer, allowing them to continue gambling with no intention of ever paying out in the event that they were to win anything else.

In my opinion, FJ should have frozen his account at this point, awarded him with the .2 BTC bounty for major bugs (https://www.reddit.com/r/FortuneJackCasino/comments/a400vp/bug_bounty_we_will_give_you_bitcoins_for_finding/), and adjusted his balance accordingly. If that had happened, neither party would be in this situation.

It also seems to me unfair to retroactively penalize someone for hitting a jackpot they earned in good faith. Given verusfides not only identified a critical bug through his play, which in itself should have earned him the .2 BTC bounty, but also lost out on a large potential financial windfall through no fault of his own, I believe he deserves higher compensation.

First, I looked to see what would have happened if verusfides had been credited the .2 BTC immediately and placed the same wagers on Plinko. A graph of his balance is shown below.

https://i.imgur.com/ia8n6zg.png

Verusfides would have busted and been down over 1 BTC before finally hitting the jackpot. Given his previous deposits to the site total less than .5 BTC, it is unlikely he would have continued this betting pattern and achieved the same result. Therefore, I don't think FortuneJack should be forced to pay out the full 20 BTC.

What I propose as a reasonable solution, and I hope both parties will agree to this, is to re-evaluate verusfides' plinko bets as if he started with the .2 BTC balance FJ should have paid him anyway, instead of the 2.082 BTC he had at the time. Rather than take the face value of each bet, count them proportionally to what his correct bankroll should have been at the time, ie. 10% of what he actually wagered. This would result in verusfides hitting the jackpot for 2 BTC, instead of 20 BTC.

In my opinion, a 2 BTC payout is the fairest solution. This is arguably what the outcome would have been had FJ been more proactive with the situation, and also happens to fit nicely between the numbers both parties are offering by a factor of 10 on each side.

Hm, ok...
Has everyone else received 0.2BTC as compensation for Adrenaline bug(not plinko bug) or only you?

There are often places where you can receive free lawyer consultation up to 30minutes.
Nothing done or said in this thread will end in FortuneJack paying you the 20btc. What is currently happening is the decision to either leave it or to paint the trust page of FortuneJack with red negatives and have it be a shame to wear the FortuneJack signature/avatar. (Whether this does 20btc worth of damage to their reputation/traffic is debatable)

I don't know also if I am the only one that did receive it that's something they should personally explain. Like I said I told them I wasn't even satisfied with their outcome in the first place. Which led me to question everything they've said to me which is why this thread even exists currently.

What really grinds my gears is that they knew of this whole thing in occurrence even before I had assumed my starting play position on Adrenaline. Like the other users have posted why didn't they just freeze the account or disable the game. They're in gross negligence aren't they?

Thank you for that post @MadZ, I also think that would be a fair solution that everyone involved should be happy with.

What does OP think about it?

I bet you're the only one who got 0.2BTC because you won the 20BTC, and they're hoping it will keep you quiet about the larger win.

They have a bug bounty program that they've been talking about in their official Discord. It is meant for people to find bugs and get rewarded (They have different sizes of the reward).

I highly doubt that this would be anything close to hush money.

True, I didn't properly research this. This is the official policy:

He was given 0.12BTC more than he should have been given. All other players were given 0.08BTC:

Apparently he was given 0.08 first, but then they increased it to 0.2BTC. If this was meant to be hush money, perhaps. I think they felt with the guy though (from the conversations I've seen screenshots of).

Agreed. Would be nice to get some official FortuneJack statements though (are you able to ask them to respond?)

yeah judging by everyone's outputs and my own opinion I feel they were trying to just quickly diffuse the situation knowing very well it could turn into something like this very rapidly depending on the person's knowledge of forums and ability to communicate accordingly with others. Idk why they are willing to take it this far though. Also regarding the bug bounties they never addressed it for Adrenaline. Wouldn't it have been in everyones best interest for them to not have allowed the game to continue running during the time the bug took into effect? Doesn't it really seem as is they let people play with money they couldn't withdrawal to prevent the casino from seeing any losses from players who played with the adrenaline bug in effect. I mean all of this seems so convenient to them but inconvenient to the players they claim to put first.

I can ask David to respond in this thread ASAP, but he works office hours so he won't be here for another 5-6 hours.

I know he'll be in here because he's dying to see the communities response. Also I know he's expecting that majority agree with the decision of the casino but pretty upsetting because when he tries that on the FortuneJack thread and people didn't agree he wasn't planning on accepting that answer and still kept using the same damn excuse he is now to refuse the jackpot.

Is this normal for everyone who wins at FJ? Any of you gamblers out there cashed out big at FJ(2btc+) without any issues? If you check their feedback you'll see I have tagged them in the past and came to a mutual understanding they would fix issues causing me to change the tag to neutral, but I wouldn't mind seeing some players verify you can actually win at FJ without having to deal with security and support for your win.

I would want to see the calculations as to why FJ thinks the bug started at line 184 of the "full betting history" (going up). Or some other explanation as to why they believe there is a bug in the game.

If I am reading the spreadsheet correctly, it looks like the OP's "spins" would never have resulted in a loss with a "cash out" of 0.99 or less. In other words, someone could have bet 260+ times to win 1.99x (winning 99% of the bet, and getting the bet back) and won each of those times. As such, I think it is fairly likely there is in fact a bug, however I would want a more detailed explanation from FJ.

The number of bets presented is small, however one scenario could be that the correct formula should be :
It appears the payout formula during when the OP was playing the new game was:
If this was the case, it looks like the OP would have won 67 of his 78 bets during the claimed "bug" (if this is the case, the entire betting history for the new game was likely "bugged", and the OP simply had lost bets prior to when FJ claimed the "bug" started).

Other possibilities would be that the SpinBPS was otherwise being calculated incorrectly.

This game is currently up on FJ's website, and is claimed to be provably fair, so FJ presumably knows what the issue was and should be able to show what the outcomes should have been.

---

---

I think if the "correct" outcomes from the OP playing the new game would have resulted in the OP having sufficient funds to make the plinko bets up until he won the jackpot, the entire jackpot should be paid out.

If the above is not the case, the floor the OP should receive is what MadZ suggested above. However there are other considerations that would make me believe the OP should receive more, such as FJ essentially "freerolling" their players, and the possibility that the OP may have made different sized rolls had he had a different bankroll size.

I've cashed out multiple 2+btc wins before without any issues (Before I ever joined their campaign or managed it).

I was a bit confused by this as well. The game is similar to Moneypot, where the bet multiplier will continually increase to a certain point, at which it crashes and you receive nothing if you haven't cashed out yet. "SpinBPS" is the crash point of the round, and "BPS" is the user's cashout point, which can be both set automatically or done manually. Whenever BPS < SpinBPS, the user loses their initial wager.

Both SpinBPS and BPS are only included in the second Google doc, so the first one doesn't really give any info.

I don't think the issue here is the system's provable fairness, although I haven't verified it. The bug was that for a certain number of rounds, the user would get paid out their auto-cashout multiplier regardless of whether it was higher than SpinBPS.

Such thing doesn't exist in this space. Casino isn't charity organization. There must be specific reason why player was funded with additional 0.12btc, if it was for a bug then everyone else should also receive 0.2btc, if it is because his plinko win was big then something is wrong here.
I have to agree with you.

Quoted in case one of you or MadZ starts wearing a FortuneJack campaign sig tomorrow. Agree 100% with the above and MadZ's post on the other page.

edit add: joke post. very nice unbiased posts/research from the above I quoted/listed.

They allowed the freerolling. They don't get to just walk away from that and give me a tenth of the jackpot. They want to argue bug money then I'll argue my deposit. My deposit amount of coins 1000x. That should be considered fair, considering the amount of grief they keep giving me in regards to this godforsaken situation at hand. Lets stop bringing graphs and factors into this no amount of graphing, adding, subtracting, multiplying, or dividing, could ever prove that my money was not mixed in with the bug money at the time of the jackpot. They want to keep arguing I couldn't have made it in one deposit alone. I'll say this. They can't know that this isn't physical currency where you can keep track of which dollar was in play. It's a mixed pool so they could never know if it was all my currency that made that bet or all of FortuneJacks bug money. Only thing we know for certain is that they caused the problem.

Their provably fair is actually not provably fair. The bust points are provably predetermined, but there's nothing that requires them to have a degree of randomness or keep true to their 2% edge. This is how the system works: (screenshot) (https://i.imgur.com/AJE3WrC.png)


This is what the "provably fair" (https://i.imgur.com/c1duqrz.png) section looks like. It's a list of hashes and the hashed value.

Basically, how it works is that they generate the next 10 bust points before they happen, and combine it with a random hash as well as the game ID. For example, for game #148861, they would give the hash of the game ahead of time:

Once the game has been played, they reveal the unhashed value:

I have four issues with this setup:

1. Each bust point is supposedly randomly generated, however this can't be proved. We only know that the result was predetermined. We can't know that the result was generated fairly. Each bust point is independent of the previous bust points (unlike how bustabit works, which uses hash chains). FortuneJack can easily cheat and the game can still verify as "provably fair". If there is a whale playing the game, the next 10 bust points might be legitimately randomly generated, but after that, FortuneJack can purposely provide hashes that are lower than they should. Is the whale constantly cashing out above 2x? FortuneJack can feed them bust points always below 2x, and it would still appear as "provably fair". However, this is clearly not fair.

bustabit counters this by using a chain of hashes. RHavar generated 10 million hashes, and posted the first one publicly. (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2807542.0) The last hash is used to generate the first bust point, and was obtained by hashing the second last hash. The second last hash is used to generate the second bust point, and was obtained by hashing the third last hash. This method, combined with a random seed allows for provably fair full randomness.

FortuneJack has no proof of randomness in their provably fair. RollinCoin (scam) (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1469732.0) used a very similar system, and kolloh's response perfectly points out the issue:

NLNico (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=107762) (arguably one of the top minds in the provably fair gambling space) agrees:


If I was FortuneJack and a whale started playing, I am able to give them only 10 rounds that are fair, and feed them hashes with low bust values after the 10. A big whale, baaaitcoin (https://www.bustabit.com/user/baaaitcoin) played 884 rounds on bustabit (with that account. IIRC they made multiple), and bet on average 10.85BTC per bet. If they played on FortuneJack, FJ could have manipulated all of the bust points after the first 10 rounds to have lower bust points than they should, causing baaaitcoin to go bankrupt very quickly. Something like this could have been given:


If baaaitcoin was aiming for multipliers above 1.38, that's an easy 70BTC in profit for FortuneJack. And the best part is, the games would verify as provably fair. I don't know if FortuneJack did this to cheat anyone, and I can't download the ~148k bust points from games played to see if the bust points hover near a 2% house edge. I don't think they cheated anyone (most likely incompetence), but any system that allows a casino to undetectably cheat is not provably fair.

---

2. There is no history for prior games available as far as I know. The provably fair list given only shows the last 19 game results. No available prior bust history combined with no proof of random bust points means that it is impossible for the community to verify that the bust points deviate around the x1.98 bust point (based off of 2% house edge). For all we know, the game code could be set to generate bust points with an average at x1.8, which would significantly increase the house edge. There is no way for the player to even attempt the verify that the game is fair.

3. Even if the game history is provided, and the bust points deviate from x1.98, FortuneJack could simply fill in some very high bust points when no one is playing the game. The chance that someone would join the game and play in 10 rounds is low, and the chance that the player who joined would be chasing a very high multiplier is even lower. This could allow them to have the bust points deviate from a higher bust point when no one is playing, and a lower bust point when someone is playing. This gives them fully undetectable "provably fair" where they can easily cheat.

4. Let's pretend they do have a legitimate bust value generation in the background, and can provide a hash chain + seed that gives all of the bust points. Let's also pretend that we have access to the full game history that has no chance of being modified. There is still an issue with this: they did not post a hash chain publicly and find the seed in a fair way. They can easily manipulate this to give themselves a much higher edge. RHavar explains how in this post. (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5088875.msg49092702#msg49092702) This leaves them with no way of proving that all bust points were generated fairly in the backend.

However, it's much more likely that they're using a Math.random(); in the backend which they can freely modify.

5. Game hashes are only provided 10 games in advance. This makes it hard for gamblers to verify their bets, as every time, a new game hash is given, they need to write it down somewhere to verify later. This is incredibly tedious to do (especially if you make hundreds of bets) and more likely than not, players won't be doing this and just trusting that FortuneJack won't modify the hash. Knowing this, FortuneJack can modify hashes with a very low risk of detection, and even if they were detected, it's the player's voice against FortuneJack's. (their page is set up in a way that can't be archived). Ironically, RollinCoin had a better system than this. Furthermore, having no past history further amplifies this problem. A player needs to verify each game before 19 more games has passed, as they can't check the data for older games. FortuneJack makes it very difficult and annoying for a player to reasonably verify their games. Provably fair systems should be easy and intuitive to use, as players would be heavily discouraged from verifying bets otherwise.

If FortuneJack did swap hashes and a player came here to complain, you can bet that a bunch of people who are conveniently wearing FortuneJack signatures will come defend them, using arguments like "FortuneJack is an established and old casino, why would they cheat you? Go away." or "FortuneJack is trustworthy, they paid me for my signature! Stop spreading FUD." FortuneJack can swap game hashes with very low risk of being detected. Even if they were detected, it's the player(s) word against FortuneJack and if that player had no reputation somewhere (ie bitcointalk), people would quickly reject the player(s) claims.

---

Summary
There is no proof that bust points are generated to only have a 2% house edge. FortuneJack can very easily manipulate the bust points for each round, if they do it 10 rounds prior and there is no way to detect this. This essentially allows them to cheat, with 'provably fair' still showing the game was fair. NLNico, owner of DiceSites.com (https://dicesites.com) and one of the most well known people in the provably fair space suggests to "ignore such sites."

They should fix this by copying a working provably fair system, like the one bustabit uses.

TLDR: Read bolded lines

---

edit: fixed incorrect explanation of bustabit's system
edit2: added fifth point

Dice provably fair checks out. It's possible that they are generating client seeds that combine with the server seed to favor high/low numbers or to have an X losing streak within X amount of bets, but there's really no point in doing this and players can set the provably fair client seed to whatever they want. Red walls are quite common in dice after a certain amount of bets, and those complaints are usually from players who think that martingale is a risk free way to make money. You can use a streak calculator (https://www.sportsbookreview.com/picks/tools/streak-calculator/) to see this. For example, in the span of 10k bets at 2x payout, the chance of a 13 loss streak occurring in that span is 49.7%.

They use (for DICE) client seed + server seed + nonce where only nonce changes, only way to manipulate this is to show wrong result. Unless there is proof they are doing it, it shouldn't be mentioned in this thread at all.

Yep... but that FortuneJack response team though...

Nope. Says so right on the machine:

https://bloximages.chicago2.vip.townnews.com/theoaklandpress.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/e/dd/eddecf44-c58d-11e8-a88e-6f2d014157e7/5bb23be8a601b.image.jpg?resize=400%2C294

"MALFUNCTION VOIDS ALL PAYS AND PLAYS". FortuneJack has the same terms (all online casinos do - they'd be crazy not to), and non-computer gambling games have similar rules about dealer errors and the like.

I'd like to point out a keyword in that sentence that makes your whole argument invalid.

What would happen if you were in a real casino and knew a slot machine was broken in such a way that the casino no longer had the edge, and the casino didn't happen to know that.  You use the broken machine to win some money that you later bet on the blackjack table--and you win big there.  Should the casino honor any of your bets?

Let me know if you understand what I'm implying to you or if you need bigger and more bolder words to specify what I mean.

Edit. Sorry if I'm coming out like an asshole but between you and the couple dozen of people who clearly posted the same thing as you it's a little annoying that you don't read the basis of the original post in full before deciding to post your own assumption regarding my case.

FortuneJack claimed the game was provably fair, but it is not provably fair. Given, that the whole game malfunctioned (by not being provably fair), do you think FortuneJack should refund everyone who lost money playing Adrenaline and take money from everyone who profited playing Adrenaline? Do you think that FortuneJack will do so? This is their policy:

Also, the issue here is that verusfides won their 20 BTC on a non-malfunctioning game (Plinko). They got the balance to win from the malfunctioning game. How do you think that should be handled? (which is the whole point that we're debating)

Awesome Work Madz, Great fucking work - it is brilliant to see the community coming forward and looking at data to give impartial views, has to be said props to QS for not taking his personal views and using them as an attack tool. It is really unfortunate that an EX "most trusted member of the forum" is actually using this as a tool for a personal vendetta against some members, actually I would class it as sad.

Anyway - bottom line is OP accepted the bounty payment, signed up to the sites T&C's and is a total degenerate. In this hypothetical situation, as the above graph proves that even if he had jumped straight on and used the 0.2 on plinko with the same betting pattern he would of busted.

People here need to remember that OP did Click yes to the T&C (even if he didn't read them, I mean come on which degen actually does) and he ACCEPTED the bounty pay out, no one can realistically think that he has any legal or moral standing after that. Internet lawyers are not experts in the Jurisdiction of the license or where the owners of the site actually reside, lets be realistic here - anything else is just hyperbole.

I am happy that FJ are active in dealing with complaints like this and not on radio silence which was the case before I and others joined the campaign - one of the agreements I had with FJ was that the community touch would be much more hands on if/when issues arose.

I really don't. It makes no difference whether you knew or not, except that if you did, and the casino could prove it, you'd be arrested for fraud. But either way you don't get to keep your winnings.

EDIT:
OP couldn't have won any real bitcoins, because they didn't wager any real bitcoins; they wagered void credit, so that's what they won.

I am reading this thread and will try to respond on them, but firstly what private information? are you kidding me? you are posting with that account on public chats on discord. The Records show that you won obviously form bug and you might have mentioned it and took advantage as well. I mean, any player who has ever played any game in any casino can tell that there is no chance to have above 70 winning bets in strike on a game like Adrenaline. Players who have mentioned it wrote to us and reported the bug, you are probably the only one who decided to keep the obvious bug winnings and play massive bets on other game later.

Please, stop this cacaphony, FJ was fair giving you a large bug bounty and your initial deposit back, also free spins. your problem is that, you have lost them in minutes and now trying to get more. I explained to you million times and literary got team inside the office to review your case thoroughly as you asked, I have requested all the data and got people analysing it and now that data is online, if anyone has questions please, see the betting history again, which is fully available online here ==>> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/11r_GqS-eVadHHJxRAdCaVSqqBosQWz4y98F48CyvvPs/edit#gid=492165691

I will read comments now and in case there is something else needed to comment I will comment it separately.

Cheers,
David.

Which is why I'm strongly inclined to align with the casino on this case. He was betting with something that shouldn't exist to begin with, so the win should never have existed either. Plus, once you take a bug bounty compensation it makes your case even weaker.

This is also what bothers me about OP. Did you lose the bug bounty on FJ as well?

yes, he did.

Gambling addiction is real. If this guy was gambling on FJ for 8 to 13 hours... of course he has a problem.. by giving him free spins thats nice and all.. but how long does that last (long enough where it ends up being.. ok one more spin, nvm I meant one more after that.. or trips to the atm to withdraw $50.. gone.. ok this $100 is the last of it, fuck it with $200 more I can break even) and how quickly was the 0.2BTC dumped back into the site. A nice gesture but with sinister motives behind it. These guys at the online gambling sites know what they're doing and how to kickstart the gambling addiction that so many have.

Not much to do with the case but it's why you gave the guy free spins on top of everything else. Business model/marketing 101 in that line of work but don't pretend like it was you doing him a favor. Deep down we know free spins are just a fishing hook reeling in a gambler that can't stop.

are you seriously fucking moaning about the site giving him money and spins? They cant refund him without you making them look bad and they cant not refund him without someone else moaning? WTF is this shit about?

seriously people be objective here - OP is a DEGENERATE GAMBLER, he got paid out after being a little sneaky (not saying its wrong, 75% of people here might of tried there luck) and then dumps it all into the casino and comes here and moans. Get real, forget any personal issues and look at the fucking facts. FJ has been stand up, FJ has been here answering questions, FJ paid a shit ton more than OP deserves - what would you prefer? them to Ban him as he is a problem gambler? next thread from OP will be "FJ banned me and wont let me try to win my money back"

GTFO people with nothing objective to say.

@DarkStar - any chance of you and David having a chat about the provably fair issue? I feel that is a much bigger point that needs addressing over the stupid OP here, I would appreciate if you could take the time to speak to them as I respect what you have to say and feel that you are objective enough to get to the truth.

I will reply here as well, this post was sent to game provider and game developers and I would like to thank you firstly for thorough examination of the game and secondly, can assure you to get back to you as soon as I hear from them.

Cheers,
David.

I see it now. The spreadsheet was hard to read because the line with the labels was not frozen at the top.

It should be fairly clear there was a bug, provided the information from FJ can be believed.

I agree that most casinos do not normally payout winnings when a machine is not working properly, however casinos can choose to do so. My concern about the OP's case is FJ did something very similar to giving the OP chips, which is the same as paying out -- the OP subsequently used those chips to bet on another game and won.

I would also point out, according to FJ, over 15 hours elapsed from when the OP stopped using the bugged game to when he won the jackpot on plinko. I believe if FJ intended to not honor subsequent bets from funds won from the new game, they should have frozen his account as soon as they were aware of the bug, which should have been far before 15 hours later IMO.

According to my calculations, while playing plinko, he was down at most, 004096 BTC, and his subsequent bet was 0.0256 BTC, resulting in a total required bankroll of 0.06556 BTC to place the subsequent bet after his low point. During the majority of the OP's plinko betting session, he was making very small bets, and he was down by this much less than an hour prior to his jackpot win, and he was previously down nominal amounts two hours prior to his jackpot win.

The OP initially deposited ~0.009 BTC, and if you assume the subsequent bet would result in the OP having a zero balance, he would need to make bets approximately 13.727% of his actual plinko bets, resulting in a payout of approximately 2.745 BTC from the jackpot.

The OP was however due a bug bounty of 0.08 BTC (he actually received 0.2 BTC, but the advertised amount was 0.08). It is unclear when this would be payable to the OP, but I don't think it would be unreasonable to say he should have received it within 12 hours of finishing play on the bugged game. If the winnings from the bugged game were removed, and the bug bounty was added to the OP's account, he would have sufficient funds to cover the bet that resulted in his jackpot win, and as such, I believe there is a strong argument he should receive the entire jackpot win.

---

Separately, I am concerned about how their bug bounty (https://www.reddit.com/r/FortuneJackCasino/comments/a400vp/bug_bounty_we_will_give_you_bitcoins_for_finding/) thread reads. Specifically, it says "...find bugs in two new games just released...", which implies they did not invest resources required to release a working game. There is also the implication that FJ may have been trying to "freeroll" their customers by displaying large wins -- if for example, someone deposited 0.1 BTC, thought they won 2 BTC, and subsequently lost  0.102 BTC (after increasing their bet size) on another game might have their entire deposit seized, but this player might not have made as large of bets had they not thought they were up 1.9 BTC.

I really fail to see the issue here. The Terms & Conditions are quite clear:



You agree to the T&C when signing up on FortuneJack so the OP should've been aware of it. They have refunded his bets and even given him 0.2 BTC (which he accepted). He then proceeds to lose that 0.2 and is now complaining that they aren't paying out the jackpot (which is covered in the T&C).

look, this is impossible, The bug bounty was issued only after seizing the jackpot winnings, what obviously means that firstly jackpot was won using the bug money, than the winning was seized and only after the bounty was given. I will upload another screen from our back office (information hidden are usernames of other players affected by bug and given bounty as well)

https://i.imgur.com/5ykxEv0.png

The bounty was raised only after my involvement to 0.2 adding 0.12 to players account, this is the moment when I thought we were settling and raised bug bounty because player was in rare rage and really felt bad for him and situation was delicate as well.

https://i.imgur.com/RjRsF5B.png

Hope this is the last one on this topic, we are open to make more files public, that guided us to the decision and is interesting for community.

Cheers,
David.

I'm willing to chat with them about it. I've joined their Discord so they can feel free to message me there, or through any other public communications channels I have (ie Forum PM, Telegram). I think my post outlines all of the issues with it though, so there's likely no need. (though I do want a bug bounty for reporting the issue  :P)

---

My final thoughts on OP's issue: 0.2BTC was a good enough payout for something he shouldn't have been able to win in the first place.

uhm... Okay but wtf... Lol listen to what you're saying. Is it just me or did you just admit that adrenaline does have a real problem and is not probably fair. So regardless of anything you did it was indeed your site's fault. That's what your saying right doesn't matter about any bets that came after regardless.

Also don't expect everyone to know what kind of game adrenaline is. That was my first time playing a game like that who're you to immediately make the assumption that I'm like every other gambler on the page.

No it would've been voided credit if they addressed it to us as voided credit. Or it would've been FJC if they allowed the game to be only played as FJC which is their free play credit they allowed real money to get poured into the damn thing. Then let me play over and over without doing a damn thing regarding the money. So hows it my fault. Why not just misguide every other gambler too and give them all jackpots and reverse there accounts too. The fact is you let me receive something then took it away saying it's a bug from something that shouldn't have happened. So take responsibility comparing 80,000 to 80 Dollars in my opinion isn't considered being responsible. Feel free to say something in regards to that.

And also you said you'll make more files public. Show the amounts of all accounts you reversed that day. Post amounts after adrenaline. Let's address everyone then. You wanna keep pointing fingers at me saying I'm acting out of hand. Show the results for all gamblers who had any ties with adrenaline bug. Then show results of the amount in their account after they had played with your voided credit and then show the reversal you did. I'm sure the community will understand what I'm getting at.

If you didn't want us to play with voided credit you wouldn't have allowed credit to be used in the first place. It's clearly obvious you guys did this to manipulate your losses.

Imagine that advertising to everyone one day to come play Adrenaline. Introducing new and old gamblers. With a whole crowd of people on your website I'm sure they all touched that game once. Let me guess something. You never gave any bounty to the people that lost on the adrenaline game that day did you? Tell us David. I'm sure you have some lovely explanation for that.

What you're saying states that you forced everyone to comply to your liability rule when none of those players had knowledge, see you guys never once addressed adrenaline would have bugs, yet on reddit you have bug bounties for mine and plinko. Why is it you guys didn't make public adrenaline might have issues when you knew it would?

Do we even have any proof you didn't intentionally malfunction that game to begin with? After all Darkstar pointed out that the game in fact could be manipulated. Maybe you slipped in that erroneous error knowing you could then in fact be entitled to reverse anyone's account as you freely chose. I'd like anyone to try to prove what I'm saying is wrong.

Also one last edit. I deposited 0.0095 BTC that night but that's myself. What about the players who had a higher account balance that night lets say people with 1 BTC or higher and wouldve made higher wagers on other games. I think this is good enough to accuse the casino of safeguarding losses.

You had released your other two games knowing it would come with bugs and you released that in a statement to reddit. Why didn't you release the same statement in reddit regarding adrenaline if you knew it would have a bug, if this was indeed your bug bounty in progress you would've told them about the event would you have not. In those games you knew they would have bugs so doesn't that mean in fact you could've known adrenaline had this kind of bug? My question is who was actually bug abusing was is the players or was it the casino themselves.

It's very questionable that a staff would not notice this kind of bug. Regardless of how human they are. The bug in itself is pretty noticeable for anyone who has knowledge of the game correct? So how did absolutely no one on your developer side notice this? You guys are pretending to play stupid aren't you?

I think you're kinda playing stupid too - you won a 200x payout 69 times in a row. The chance of that happening is so minuscule that you probably would have known that there was a bug. Assuming zero house edge, the chance of that happening is 1.694066 * 10^-159 (basically impossible)

If this does indeed turn out to be the case, it is no longer debatable whether or not FortuneJack is a scam and those promoting it should take appropriate action immediately for the good of the forum.  Thank god FortuneJack, Lauda & Hhampuz weren’t able to quickly silence the user making complaints, otherwise this may have never been discovered.

Am I? I didn't know how I won so that playing stupid? Let's say even if I did know. You're gonna tell me that excuses the casino somehow? No right? So why should any of us have to return any funds we won in a casinos attempted underhanded tactic to prevent its own losses from its players. All of a sudden because I revealed it are they willing to retract what they did? I doubt it because if they did they'd be in too much debt because of the amount of damage the bug would've done. So they don't really have a choice but to say they cheated all those players and refuse to return any kind of winning to anybody. Hows that work out for all the players. You think they're all ok with that? We prevented x amount of winnings but in return we'll give you 23 dollars as compensation!

Are you gonna be OK with that? Is a player who had a 3500 dollar account limit be OK with that when they clearly could have won more? Clearly who gains the advantage here? They limit anyone from making any gains for a single day. While sending 23 dollars to each player. This is clearly malicious manipulation.

Tell me Darkstar you pointed out there game was indeed available to manipulation so could there be in fact a way they could make this event seem like a bug yet it was actually the casinos malicious intent to make it seem the program was glitched?

From what I'm beginning to understand is they had every intention of doing this but since there was a player with about 0.009 BTC who miraculously hit the jackpot on plinko and made a big deal about them not paying out they explained the fact how I couldn't have possibly won with 0.009 BTC expecting you all to believe that's the whole basis of the case, but no that isn't.

The whole basis is the fact that FortuneJack screwed people intentionally with deposits whether big or small. So they should follow that very rule of bugs voiding casino winnings. They should reverse all reversals in the accounts for purposefully abusing the bug which made the accounts to be altered to begin with.

I'm very certain that it is the case, but that doesn't mean they did it in malice. I'm betting that the flawed provably fair system was due to incompetence, and not malice. All other provably fair games should be provably fair. It's not too rare to see a new casino have a flawed provably fair system.

The correct and non-scammy thing to do here is for FortuneJack to refund all users who had losses playing Adrenaline, as they could have been cheated, while allowing those who made a profit to keep their profit (excluding those who profited from the always win bug however) as they made a profit when the casino could have been cheating, which is fine.

You're a overreacting a bit I think. If FortuneJack does not void all plays on Adrenaline (inline with their own policy of "All wagers and bets shall be void in case of a system failure. The original wager shall be refunded.") at the minimum (optimally they should let those who won keep their winnings), then it might be worth calling them a "scam".

You say new casino. The casinos been up and running for 5 years. There's no way they wouldn't know the differentiation between the two and even then this begs in question as to why there wasn't any notification of a possible bug in this game when they had in fact did so well in notifying bug existences of other games to its players.

Do they not in fact test the games themselves before final release? I'm telling you there's no way in this world that could have gone unnoticed by the numerous amount of developers they had. How could they deny knowledge of its existence when it seems like everybody else could see the problem pretty plainly. Are you saying the developers were as stupid as I am or did they simply turn a blind eye.

system failure
A hardware or operating system malfunction. See fault tolerant.

Source: https://www.pcmag.com/encyclopedia/term/52395/system-failure
https://www.yourdictionary.com/system-failure


malfuncation
1. a failure to function in a normal or satisfactory manner.

satisfactory
1. fulfilling expectations or needs; acceptable, though not outstanding or perfect.

Source: Google Dictionary/OxfordDictionaries (http://oxforddictionaries.com)

---

There was a system failure because the game did not function to expectations and needs (being provably fair)

Sorry for the double post, but this is for a different-ish topic than my other post and I'd rather keep them separate.

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verusfides went to AskGamblers for mediation:


This was AskGamblers response:

---

Given that verusfides has taken compensation, and mediation ruled against them, I think this case can be considered settled on the forum. (if verusfides wishes to proceed with their argument, they should get a lawyer). There's only the issue of fake provably fair left.

A system failure can occur because of a hardware failure or a severe software issue, causing the system to freeze, reboot, or stop functioning altogether. A system failure may or may not result in an error being displayed on the screen.

Keyword is freeze, reboot, or stop functioning altogether.

I didn't see the site fall into any non op status the whole time I was there.

And also in that regard I'm asking. How would that not go unnoticed. That should have been noticed in testing grounds. This is clearly negligence your telling me that not once did this error happen during the time they tested and released but miraculously just happened to begin upon its release? That's ridiculous

Is there a way you could manipulate the game and make it look like a glitch. In regards to the post you commented about the probably fair of the game itself not being provably fair because I refuse to believe for one second that this happened unknowingly and out of the blue on a game which was announced via email and notification to come play.

Does "you" refer to FortuneJack or the player? In this case, the player can't manipulate the game as the crash value is fully generated on the server side and there is quite a bit of time before that crash value is played. FortuneJack could manipulate the game and make it look like a glitch, but there's no point for them to do that because it would mean they pay out a 0.08BTC bug bounty to everyone affected and they could undetectably modify bust values to make everyone lose if there was a high roller playing.

You're beating a dead horse at this point I think - you went for mediation, and mediation ruled against you. No point making conspiracy theories.


FortuneJack has shown that they are pretty incompetent at running a casino, so I'm pretty confident that the fake provably fair was made out of incompetence and not malice. For example, they took over 20 days and their "top specialists" to fix a simple visual error and compensate the player for it. (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1623116.0)

We'll see how FortuneJack responds - optimally, they should refund all players who lost money playing Adrenaline as those players expected a fair game, but could have been cheated at any time. (and/or consistently, if the bust point deviates from a lower value than x1.98 for their 2% house edge)

By you I do mean FortuneJack, and it's not a conspiracy it's just a theory because compared to the 0.08 they would have to pay out for the bug, what if the amount they had prevented in their casino from losing was greater? Wouldn't that just seem out of convenience a bug like that was in play that very given day? Considering an 80 BTC loss to 8 BTC loss (from bug bounty awards) wouldn't seem highly unlikely would it?

Also could you explain that last part? Does that mean that if the number stops before 1.98 in BPS? Sorry not very good at understanding the house edge for these games sometimes.

I doubt there were any whales playing at the time. If there were, it's more profitable for them to abuse their broken provably fair, and take the whale's 80 BTC or whatever balance they had through bad crash points.


The BPS is supposed to average at x1.98 bust. If they have flawed RNG or cheat, they could average the bust at x1.75 for example which increases the house edge as it's harder for the player to win.

Yeah but, what if there's more than one whale. lets say 10 people with a balance of 10 BTC each all came to that casino to play on their machines only to find due to one being bugged none of those people earned any profits?

Also in reference to that link you sent me. Isn't that another clear example of manipulation? Its very funny that the events of global deposit manipulation happens on all their provably fair games. With that example they have the opportunity to reverse all bets at that time simply due to the fact that it was playing on opposite ends and claim due to a bug they have to reverse everyone's dice wager and all subsequent bets after right? Was this person awarded more bug bounty for making it aware on forums like I was? Because it seems to me they're subjectively glitching or creating small bugs on purpose with the intention of altering bets due to that event it's just that nobody thought of it to this extent. Dice is also a game that shouldn't even be subject to manipulation in anyway. How did that even occur? I've seen so many people use the same exact Dice format as FJ casino in so many other casino's yet none of them run into a glitch like that. Isn't the simplicity of provably fair the reason why it's promoted so well? Yet somehow on here, unexpectedly it would happen and that just so happens to return wagers of every person that came into contact with that game on that specific day. Whether they fell into a win or a loss. Isn't it strange that things like this very nature would happen over and over again?

This isn't even the fact of whether they're competent or incompetent. Who here has seen a Dice game glitch on where it rolls at opposite sides? Anyone see a glitch like that ever? I've never seen so much as a single problem other than lag in dice roll games. Tell me I'm wrong.

To be entirely fair, given enough time, there will be a set of 60 consecutive games in which the SpinBPS is >200 -- simply saying this is unlikely does not mean it should not have happened. Being that the game is not provably fair, it is difficult to say one way or another there were a sequence of games that should have had a SpinBPS of over 200.

In regards to your rationale that there was a "system failure" because the game was not provably fair, I would not agree with you on this. The game not being provably fair is the result of FJ misrepresenting a feature of the game. I would note the game is presently not provably fair.

One could argue (reasonably) the game paying out wins on a 200 BPS, when the SpinBPS was under 200 is a "system failure", and I would agree to the extent it can be believed the seeds were not changed after the fact to make the SpinBPS be under 200.

I was under the impression the OP was eligible for the bug bounty from reading this reddit thread (https://old.reddit.com/r/FortuneJackCasino/comments/a400vp/bug_bounty_we_will_give_you_bitcoins_for_finding/), but it looks like that bounty only applied to PLINKO and MINES, not the game in question.

The delay in adjusting the OP's account is still concerning because the OP was under the impression his balance was higher than it was, and likely made larger bets accordingly. This effectively guarantees a player will either lose their entire deposit or will have any winnings clawed back, effectively making any bets by the player risk free to the casino.

It continues to be my position that FJ should payout a minimum of what was described here (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5097164.msg49252728#msg49252728) by MadZ (and agreeing with his logic).

Given that the OP has shown to frequent your casino, it is reasonable to say he would have gambled absent the win via the bugged game.

could I also add to this extent that the bounty was 0.2 I deposited 0.5 subsequently throughout the day and continuing onwards for the next night the amount total I would have had to wager altogether right before the plinko bet was 0.670 meaning I would've gotten to that bet regardless. I really don't see why they keep ignoring this logic. I'm supposed to accept its my bad luck that got a jackpot taken from me. It's more like they used an excuse to keep it for themselves.

I told him to add the amount I deposited after my jackpot had been removed but this guy seems to only care about his own position instead trying to be relatively fair in any regards to my case.

If I was next in line to buy a scratch off, oh shit why didn't I chose 2 different numbers on the lottery - WOW if I had left the house 30 seconds later I would of been involved in that car crash.

Sorry bud but it isn't going to fly here, Even QS is no longer stating that you are due the 20BTC, the mediation service has sided with the casino - I do not see the point in you continuing. However I am interested to hear feedback from DarkStar when he has spoken with FJ, pretty sure the other senior members who wear the signature are in the same boat as me.

this and that have nothing to do with each other. Implying I had a certain balance and then reversing said balance when in regardless of it all with or without their bug money I would've had said balance for plinko bet is really completely different from what you're stating. I would've had the money to make the bet regardless isn't that what it all comes down to. I assumed I won money you can't assume I didn't have the money to play if I didn't have the bug money cuhz I readily made the deposits. You're gonna side with the casino for what to save your sig money? Really don't be a jackass. In my shoes you wouldn't argue anything your saying so don't assume the casinos position when you know you'd probably be arguing just the same as I am to receive payment. They can't negate all factors of what happened till this point and argue because of the bug they can't pay me. I've deposited and kept depositing so who's to argue I wouldn't get there that day. They created the what if possibility simply because they delayed the bug bounty. And keep this in mind even if they only gave 0.08 with the deposits I made after that would still have been enough for the jackpot. I'm gonna argue why they were so late with bug payment when seemingly to me they gave everyone's payment earlier. Also they'd have to pay anyone who clicked auto play even once the bug bounty because even if the bug was used under the BPS auto pay option it would still be considered being a bug. Anyone who won from the auto play but lost money overall should get the bug bounty. You wanna argue trite information like that to defend the company tell me I'm wrong in saying they should pay all users 0.08 BTC. Anybody in correlation shouldve gotten paid. If they didn't though and they start doing that now because of what everyone on this forum has said, that begs in question why they can't allow the deposits I made after to correlate the plinko bets. After all that's considered their fault too is it not? Are they now suddenly inclined to only correct faults of their choosing? They can't defend their position on bugs without accepting my position because that contradicts that they can't reverse anything that's been done. There's even conversation suggesting hes willing to reverse someone's winning they had paid out in adrenaline. Regardless of whether the bug had anything to do with it isn't the problem. If the company is so willing to reverse the decision of all problems that arose from the game Adrenaline then they would have to include all the possibilities that could've happened without the game in play.

They're trying to make it sound like it couldn't have happened without the bugged money but yes it damn well would have bugged money or not this isn't a theory it's a fact.

wall of text - not reading. Why do you not accept the word of the Casino, mediator and many many senior people here? you are behaving more like cryptofuck with each post.

1) you signed up to TOS (not anyone else's fault if you didn't fucking read them)
2) you accepted the bounty payment.

Please explain to me in a concise way how the above statements are incorrect, because if you cant then you have 0 argument - end of..

I signed up to the ToS so I also signed up to the part they would be liable of anything cause by their gross negligence. Also in ToS it says they will pay up to 30 BTC or its monetary value in terms of any problem arising out of the casino. Did I cause this problem? They did fully not me.

Yes I accepted but shouldn't that just be given anyways? Was a bug bounty supposedly right?

What I would also really like to know is why do they ignore explaining their liability rules 6 and 8 at all costs. Everytime I bring this up they ignore this and move to a different notion not once have I been given anything straightforward in its regards.

Argument is dead then fella, I hate to say it but you have as much as an argument here as a flat-earth believer.

my advice, take some time off the forum, come back on monday - spend the weekend wanking, smoking J's going for walks or hitting the gym. When you come back, take yourself out of the situation, stop being emotional and re read the thread - if you still feel the same way - tough shit, but in all likely hood you might be a little more reasonable. I am in no way having a go at you "if" I were in the situation I would probably want to get my hands on $70K as well, so I am not blaming you - but I am slightly concerned for your health here, continuing down this path could lead to serious problem gambling as you want to "win it back off those casino cunts" but that wont happen - the house always wins.

please take my words as concern for you and not me talking on behalf of FJ or trying to pull the wool over your eyes - take time off, come back with a clear head - the forum will still be here & FJ will still be here

Firstly, I would like to close the case verusfides. Actually, I don't think there is anything left here to discuss, we made our point and player is clearly panicking and we can not continue with this. For last argument even askgamblers and its team made it clear that FortuneJack did everything possible to act fair in this case. See the complaint record here ===>> https://www.askgamblers.com/casino-complaints/fortunejack-casino-uses-excuse-for-bug-in-one-game-to-refuse-payment-of-another-games-jackpot.



I would like to touch a post made by  DarkStar_. I think I am voicing companies position here, we value research and opinion and point made by dear community member very much. The post has been sent to game creators team and they are thoroughly studying it. I would like to ask user to write me personally on discord, I would like to be personally in touch with him, FortuneJack team is working on the case and detailed explanation will be issued by company publicly as well. Sorry it takes a little bit of time, differences between time zones are killing it.

Cheers,
David.

@fortunejack just give him some more funds and end this crazy fight.

in a legal matter you will lose depending where he is based from if you are licensed or not in that area.

just settle with him at an amount and end this fight that is not helping you at all.

It's settled (https://www.askgamblers.com/casino-complaints/fortunejack-casino-uses-excuse-for-bug-in-one-game-to-refuse-payment-of-another-games-jackpot) - they gave him compensation (0.2BTC), he went to mediation to fight them, and mediation ruled against him. If OP wishes to proceed with their fight, they should do so in a legal system.

There's really no more reason to be arguing this on the forum.

---

DM sent

Why is not he willing to do it in a legal system?

Why did he ask gamblers?

Are gamblers lawyers or lawyers are gamblers? :D

OP = please ignore this nutjob, should you wish to go legal - do it with someone local to you. This poster is just a crackjob

Really?

err... I think a better reference would be 4000+ posts on this forum and only 4 merits.

I have seen pajeet newbies who can barely put a sentence of English together have a better hit rate than that - Jog on back to your hole, adults are talking here

Oh no way, a moderator on another forum called you "the experts"! That must mean it's true ;)

If you require a lawyer, actually seek out a local lawyer. GP is not a lawyer.

As it is SBR, correct!

Dumb brain washers like you would not have any chance to post mentally ill nonsense shit there! ;)


Do you suggest that if I am scammed by an online casino abroad while resident in China, I should contact a Chinese lawyer?


As you are just a signature spammer, you surely missed it but Game Protect forwards cases to appropriate lawyers. ;)

High ranked friends just trade merit back and forth, why the fuck do you even care about merit you piece of shit wearing a gambling signature.

Wow what a shocker! all the people wearing scam casino signatures are defending these corrupt assholes.

No one in this thread is defending any corrupt companies AFAIK. We're just simply suggesting that GP isn't a good approach for companies w/ legitimate issues/concerns.


No, believe me, I haven't missed anything. You have failed to provide any sort of evidence that you are working w/ lawyers in the past.
It would obviously depend on each situation/country the person is living in.

You thinking I'm "just a signature scammer" means you clearly have failed to leverage this forum for anything other than bashing casinos and trying to stir up business.

Yesterday you said seek out a local lawyer, today you say it obviously depends on each situation/country.

Let us see what you will advise tomorrow? :D

Oh, and please explain us how victims can properly assess each situation/country?

Please list how many lawyers you have contacts with in Azerbaijan

How is Azerbaijan related of being scammed by an online casino?

How do you know OP didn't live there? you shilling this shit in every thread is wank - you do not know where the posters are located so how can you be sure you can help them? if you cant help them then its off topic and your forum account can be banned for breaking rules.

you need to dictate which jurisdictions you can assist with and which you cant, do you even know the laws around online gambling in Botswana ? you are not an expert in your field you are a sham, stop proclaiming you can help people when we are yet to see solid evidence of anything here in this forum.

@ verusfides

Asking brain washers did not lead to get your jackpot and asking gamblers (I personally prefer to ask bakers) also not!

What is your next step?

Listening to the sane people and ignoring the fool who provides 0 evidence

Anyone fallen into the brainwash trap from TMAN? :D

I've been following the talk, and it seems like you're the one who has a completely washed brain, I'm sorry to say this! ::)

From the looks of it, both you and TMAN have collectively derailed this thread and likely have removed any realistic possibility the OP will receive additional compensation due to community pressure.

They lost at mediation (from a mediator they chose), so I highly doubt the community would be supporting them without game-protect and TMAN.

Yes the OP lost mediation. The mediator gave their logic as to why they came to the conclusion they came to, and this was largely based on FJs TOS. To my knowledge, the mediation was not binding.

If you agree with the mediators logic, you will support FJ, and if you don’t you will support the OP.

The bickering between GP and TMAN will cause others to ignore the thread and controversy.

---

My primary concern with this situation is that FJ was effectively able to freeroll their customers. The OP had lost a decent amount playing this game he won the jackpot before won the jackpot. The amount was greater than his initial deposit. I would question if a FJ would have invalidated the bets of the second game if he lost more than his deposit when he stopped gambling. 

1) After the community's pressure, FJ announced to not pay the legitimately won jackpot. I joined the discussion after FJ's decision, because in my opinion it does not make much sense to discuss with brain washers! Asking gamblers also does not make much sense in my opinion. However, if you go to the bakery after being injured, asking gamblers might be also a good idea if you have a legal issue! :D

2) Everyone with a decent working brain in his head can see that TMAN has started to attack Game Protect with lies and brain wash nonsense!

3) Verusfides contacted Game Protect one month ago and received the offer to enforce his claim without spending one cent on a contingency fee basis. I am currently trying to figure out why he preferred to discuss with brain washers or ask gamblers.

Right now, I'm especially interested in what his next step is and if he is misleaded by the brain wash nonsense posted here?

Is the bitcointalk community the judge?

Is their judge anyhow related to publicly stated and applicable laws?

Are gamblers judges? Is a mediation by gamblers juridical valid? :D

@game protect, do you post just to make a post number weekly or what?

I think all that were to said were said in this topic. Main mistake of OP is that he accepted their offer. I would've go with them to court depending on his jurisdiction.

Dude just close this topic, you have accepted 0.2 btc from the casino, what else do you want more? Anyhow i suggest fortune jack to pay him another 0.2 and just end this story that is not helping the casino at all.

No. But they can help pressure companies who clearly did something wrong.


No. Try reading the mediation case: (https://www.askgamblers.com/casino-complaints/fortunejack-casino-uses-excuse-for-bug-in-one-game-to-refuse-payment-of-another-games-jackpot)

Is ask gamblers able to state the name of the alleged relevant regulatory body?

Ask gamblers and brain wash forum failed to enforce your legitimate win, what is your next strategy?

Ask bakers?

I reopened this case with askGamblers today and I'd like to inform everyone on the forum and players of the site that with the research I have done I am more than entitled to that money and FortuneJack should no longer have a say in this matter.

The reason I say this with such confidence is this. Fortunejack does not bind or notify players of its T&C. Not when you sign up, not when you try to get your bonuses, never. Since I have never adhered to such terms and conditions or willfully agreed by terms or clickwrap. (A form of T&C agreement which makes you check a box before finishing sign up to the website or before making use of their services.) You guys are more than welcome to check yourselves that this is true. I the player having not been notified of such T&C till the winnings were removed from me and even then I was not told to abide by the terms and conditions. Since I have never entered any agreement. All the bug winnings play and plinko jackpot plays. So God damn it hand me my jackpot or I'll fly over there and have you cover the flight, the hotel fees and the days I missed work because you guys had no right to take anything from me in the first place!

Explain your way out of this one David.

PS if I take this to court all of your T&C will be VOID for the event as well as any other event that has occurred prior.

PSS this rule applies to ALL players. So if any of you guys on here are players of FortuneJack and have been wronged. You can apply this so they can't hide behind their T&C.

https://i.imgur.com/BGR7kuV.png

Either you are blinded by your greed or just stupid?

::)

I just checked my signup email. It also mentions T&C at the bottom.

mentioning doesn't hold you liable to it.

Also any rules that were modified without player knowledge is voided even if player did clickwrap. Meaning players should be notified every single time T&C changes if not all T&C that were adjusted before prior knowledge would be void. I know I find it funny to. Let's keep the smiles coming. :)

I like how the defenders of the gate are up nice and early.

I don’t see anything about the T&C on the Mobile version. If you don’t affirmatively accept the T&C, they cannot bind you to it.

Mentioning it is insufficient. You must take affirmative action to accept it.

Also the user Lauda fails to realize this is the site as is now. When I first had that account opened it simply asked by checking the box you agree you are over 21 years of age in the district you reside in. Something along those lines. Was too wordy on age restriction with no T&C agreement.

What about any time you logged into your account? Were you ever asked to acknowledge and accept the T&C?

Nope never in the time I have had the account did it say "I agree to the terms and conditions". There were very vague notes of changes to terms and conditions but never anything asking me to confirm or abide to such T&C. I have also mentioned this too in my argument I believe that they don't notify players of any of these changes until weeks after which means that even if they wrote a new T&C since they take so long to notify players the period in which players are not notified are justifiably voided to the rules until site notification. Also the rules have to be worded specifically or clickwrapped once again. Meaning you can't just write we have updated our terms and conditions check them out here. If it isn't clickwrapped it's all prone to being void in court.

Can you prove this? If not, go away. You won't get any money I stand firm on this as I have before.

http://imgur.com/JmKDFCp

Feel free to fuck off now stubborn little shit stick.

Why don't you stop trying to save the Titanic. It's a done deal they know it. I know cuhz their discord mod tried to delete my post and only after I had asked if that's really the best thing to do atm they stopped. So stop unless you recently made commissions with them you have no reason to protect and if you do commission with them then you deserve to be on that sinking ship so fuck outta my way.

Can you prove that you've signed up on the mobile version? You can not. Which, combined with the timeline of the re-opening means that you are a greedy liar trying to scam FortuneJack. Prove me wrong.

I'm extremely sensitive to lying. Your next response will either prove or destroy the case for good. Prove that you signed up without clicking the checkbox.

---

Editing does not work, I've tagged you with an archived version.

Cheerio.

Dear everybody who signed up on that site before it got revamped knows there were never any highlighted yellow letters labeled Terms and Conditions. Back then the only thing on sign up said by checking this box you acknowledge you are 21 years of age in the residence you reside in. Shit was so wordy you couldn't fit Terms and Conditions on the same page.

I removed a post because I feel I'm getting more aggressive towards you than I should be so I apologize for that. But I know the only reason why they would try to do something as stupid as what they did on their discord is because they know what I say is truth. It's truth they can't even hide from because it's their own fault.

You're missing the bigger picture here. There was a story David told me about one player who had claimed over 300 BTC from a bug. Im sure there is more than one person like this imagine they found out they were never bound by T&C. They would have to pay. Also why do I need to prove it anyways I'm confident they already have all that information at hand and I'm sure they know what I say is true. I don't need to scam anybody they just dug their own graves.

If stories, rumours, claims are true, then go via the legal option. You can't adequately prove them here, if you could then this case would be trivial. FJ isn't even that active on any of these platforms. What someone knows, thinks, might have said or actually said, I don't care without evidence. My rating stands until you can provide satisfying/adequate proof of said claim(s).

---

The biased baboon teeGUMES can go away. This case is too large for his brain to process.

whoa you started the bias first in the new origin post I'm willing to fly out to whatever strip of land they're in and take more than what I should've got. Look it now these clowns kicked me off their Discord page for what reason? You and I both know if David could fight this battle he 100% would. You've seen him before goes so far as to provide every detailed fucking log. Why can't he say something here? Best action is to drop me from FJ discord. They know they can't hide from this and shit if enough people feel they are entitled to a reward guess we gonna have an international class action. Think they can provide rooms for everyone before they run out of money? I mean they could've just paid me right from the start instead they had to get technical.

The part you missed is that

1) Illegal online casinos like FortuneJack can not have juridical valid terms and conditions

2) The applicable civil laws stand above private terms and conditions. I know that this claim is against the brain wash theories spread on forums, but nevertheless true.

3) The law firm cooperating with Game Protect offers to enforce your claim on a no cure no pay basis. That will be much more intelligent than ask gamblers of discuss with brain washers! :)

I checked mobile version and ToS is not on sign-up screen. However, I couldn't sign-up so I can't either confirm or deny that it is/was possible to sign up without checking ToS box. Another thing is, IIRC, FJ did send message to everyone when they changed ToS - does it apply to users who were not forced to agree to ToS in order to use FJ's services? I would say no, but I would also say that it doesn't apply to anyone. If you want people to agree to new terms and conditions - they have to agree by ticking that box, every time changes are made.

Would anyone agree if FJ change ToS and put in there "we will take 50% of your deposit as a fee for our service", doesn't share this with players and simple start taking 50% just because they said they will?  I don't think anyone would.

That is nothing different than any other change in ToS. The rule "we can change our ToS every time we want" is correct, but when they do change it, they need to inform users about it and users need to confirm that they are aware of changes and that they agree with new ToS.

Whatever is not in ToS doesn't apply as a rule.

These are all holes in system and if OP is telling the truth they should hire a lawyer. (of course, if you have received compensation from them and you took it - in that case you should lock this topic, I don't think you have a case then).

Agreed, and he did, 4 months ago.

Did he sign a contract when he accepted a compensation for his 20 BTC?

Ask gamblers will fail because it is a biased service, otherwise criminal casinos would not use it!

Thereafter he can ask bakers and still has the option to engage Game Protect. :)

Let's just recap what this person just said Lardo. Do you notice something? If OP is telling the truth then it doesn't matter what they gave me. Also even though game-protect is like the Saul of BTCtalk. He's right. I didn't sign anything, also matters were handled outside of the website domain so it wouldn't affect regardless. Also, you notice how FJ hasn't said anything regarding another individual 20 dollars and bonus spins? Pettiness on a whole another level lol.

Nope I said previously T&C that is enforced upon players is only enforced at the time of through the remainder of your interaction with the website from then on. It would not apply to any matters prior to that point.

Other than that, what you said is pretty much on point. Glad someone still uses the power of basic deduction, instead of going on 10 separate tangents of why I shouldn't be getting any money.

Also, covered that part to, I let people know that it wouldn't apply to everyone.

I'm just asking for a public response. Best to hear the answer straight from the source. I mean, has anyone seen proof from them that I'm wrong? I presented my proof. Doesn't get more solid than the coverpage of their Sign-Up page without the T&C agreement.