Yes, read sections 5.4.2 and 6 of the white paper. Prime Controllers don't have anything to do until POS starts.
But when POS starts, the nearest prime controller to the transmitting node verifies and locks the transaction, then broadcasts it to other nodes and controllers. If a consensus of prime controllers agree that it is a valid transaction it gets added to the blockchain.
The weight (number/quantity) of the staked coins that prime controllers have give them more authority to verify. The weight of the staked coins also disincentive-izes the prime controllers (or a consortium of prime controller owners) from performing illicit transactions.
Considering all..most of the ponzicoins will be stored on under Gaw's control wouldn't that give them control of the blockchain..similar to a bitcoin pool having 96% of the hashrate? A large amount of the initial 12.5million coins are staked in the prime controllers. This weight is what gives these special nodes authority for the transaction's authenticity. There are 50 prime controllers staked with at least 1% of all available coins. The rest of the coins are now in the hands of the former hashlet owners' wallets, and the last little bit are being mined now... and floating around on exchanges. So... no... GAW doesn't control 96% of the hashrate or the stake rate. Vericoin had to hard fork their POS shitcoin when mintpal got hacked just to avoid a 51% attack by the hacker staking his stolen coins. And mintpal wasn't a shit coin staking site, just an exchange. I guess you are asking about prime controller collusion? Just as it's very expensive to pull off a 51% attack on bitcoin, and counter-productive... it's the same concept in paycoin-land. So prime controllers basically means Visa/Mastercard/Paypal where Gaw can change/block/reverse any transaction they chose, they will control the ponzicoin blcokchain....that's not crypto
Or... you could go read the source code and point to where this is possible? |
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Another question - which merchants are exclusive to Paycoin? I think I missed that announcement if there was one.
Is that even necessary? What would that prove? A retailer is going to want to make it easy for anyone (including paycoin holders) to buy their crap. Why would they not accept bitcoin too? |
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Ok, so what about the pink elephant in the room... what's the exchange rate going to be when I buy something with Paycoin through GoCoin? Because if it's $20 then I'm writing an apology and rushing to spend my 0.34 XPY right away. But somehow I think it's not that simple, is it?
Another question: What happened to the "Bitcoin is so OLD and SLOOOW. Paycoin is modern and FAST" BS? Now the plan is to convert from Paycoin (SLOW-Sorry dudes) and then PAY (hence PAYcoin) to convert it into that oh so old and slow dinosaur, Bitcoin, which can then be spent? Hmm let's see, let me do the math here: New and slow plus old and slow = FAST?? Nope it don't, it = twice as slow. Sorry morons. Such an amazing load of BS. It is truly frightening that there are thousands of people who still believe this guy. Suggestion to any moron who still believes that PAYcoin is going to replace Bitcoin: Umm, the plan is to convert PAYcoin into Bitcoin (at a fee) and then use BITCOIN. Wake up! The point is to work with bitcoin, this has been stated before. Bitcoin already has it's own momentum, why fight it? Why not work with it, and get in niches where new retailers are just getting on-board with cryptocurrency a chance to work with existing ecosystems of bitcoin and/or paycoin. "But BTC is slow you said..." you don't build Rome in a day. You want to make paybase compatible with as much as possible from the get-go... then work in the advantages of paycoin to retailers to either supplant bitcoin (supporting the reverse transaction if you wanted to support paycoin-only transaction with someone's BTC stored on paybase)... or just provide another way for a retailer to get the sale via paycoin holders. |
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Gocoin?? WTF is that? I seriously think that Titcoin has more merchants lined up than Paycoin. OK- They are mostly porno, but the last time I checked, that is the #1 business on the net , right??
P.S: What is next ?? Integration with Ripoff coin?
Wait if it's a bitcoin address, isn't it technically a bitcoin transaction? I don't see how any of those transactions would count as paycoin transactions. I could make purchases in altcoin converted to bitcoin instantly using shapeshift just as well couldn't I? You are missing the point. Why do that manually when you can do it directly and transparently through paybase? Joe Sixpack doesn't know the difference between BTC, XPY, DOGE, LTC, or a hundred other coins. But he does know that he can use this one coin and payment processing system without having to worry about multiple steps, sending funds here, there and everywhere. They just get what they want as easy as using fiat. |
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Wrong. In order to use your Paycoin to get something from an online retailer, you will need to use the plug-in to use GAW as a middleman in the transaction. Or do you think Walmart accepts Paycoin directly? :rolfing: You might want to check up on the latest announcement. rolfing indeed. Incorrect. They have not released a registration number, so they are not registered. Let's go ahead and accept that already and stop being delusional, yes? Once again, they have until January 15th. Until then this is a moot point. Wrong again. At this point you're just trying to antagonize me. I admit, I'm poking a little bit. But it's not like you haven't done the same. I'll keep it civil. Agreed. But it's to prevent massive dumping, making it more of a trickle. If their reserve gets tapped, they start selling a new hashlet. They've already hinted about this. I think we're making some progress here. I'm not mad... they are a business. They have a vested interest in making paycoin a success. |
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So what happens to the blockchain when POW ends soon? There are no Prime Controllers or Orion nodes to control the network and record transactions. They are supposed to handle transactions and mint coins when needed. If there are no miners and these parts of the infrastructure are not online the blockchain will stop growing and transactions and trades will become impossible to perform.
Actually according to the timeline, the prime controllers were already created on Monday the 15th. So they are already out there. http://www.tiki-toki.com/timeline/entry/376190/GAW-Timeline/Are you sure? Any evidence of that in the source code? Or how else is that going to work? Yes, read sections 5.4.2 and 6 of the white paper. Prime Controllers don't have anything to do until POS starts. But when POS starts, the nearest prime controller to the transmitting node verifies and locks the transaction, then broadcasts it to other nodes and controllers. If a consensus of prime controllers agree that it is a valid transaction it gets added to the blockchain. The weight (number/quantity) of the staked coins that prime controllers have give them more authority to verify. The weight of the staked coins also disincentive-izes the prime controllers (or a consortium of prime controller owners) from performing illicit transactions. |
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What if a winning lotto ticket falls off of a passenger pigeon's wing and falls into my hand?
The thing is they are doing what they said they would. (In regards to paycoin) Yes some have been rocky or late but they still have been doing what they said. Tom don't turn shill on us now. They haven't done anything yet. What we say is fact, we're not speculating into the future. Hang, on... there's been plenty of speculation in this thread on both sides. Their PaySave violates retailer's terms of service, so it's likely it will get shut down in a major way just like ZincSave. You haven't seen the plug-in or how it works, you are speculating based on what you think it is. They have no registration number for MSB. They have until the 15th of Jan before they allow Fiat exchange on paybase. More speculation? The coin is trading at $6 in free market. Well, the first fact in your post so far. Their verification is overstepping A LOT, even compared to other MSB companies.
Agreed. But it's to prevent massive dumping, making it more of a trickle. If their reserve gets tapped, they start selling a new hashlet. They've already hinted about this. |
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Really i believe josh is trying to do what he claims to do, and he takes a huge risk, for me he is not a proven scammer, but someone who risks other his + other peoples asses to get to the moooooon  So while this shit can termporarely work out (the 20$ thing and stuff like that)... i'm pretty sure in long term this is total fail... That's just basic business common sense... OPM. |
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So what happens to the blockchain when POW ends soon? There are no Prime Controllers or Orion nodes to control the network and record transactions. They are supposed to handle transactions and mint coins when needed. If there are no miners and these parts of the infrastructure are not online the blockchain will stop growing and transactions and trades will become impossible to perform.
Actually according to the timeline, the prime controllers were already created on Monday the 15th. So they are already out there. http://www.tiki-toki.com/timeline/entry/376190/GAW-Timeline/ |
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Call me slow, Im still trying to understand how it supposedly works  So staked coins do the mining and gaw will hold like nearly all of them. What happens if someone with a few staked coins decides to DDoS GAW. Can he double spend at will? No, because GAW doesn't own the coins. They just host the online wallets in Zencloud. There is no reason you have to hold your coins in Zencloud. You can stake in your own personal wallet for a 5% APY. Plus, there will be plenty of nodes and "orion" controllers outside of GAW's ecosystem. Some prime controllers also probably live outside of GAW's data center too. The Prime controllers hold the vast amount of coins. |
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You still haven't explained why they need to buy any coin from an exchange to prop up a floor that simply doesn't exist until paybase is opened. They are just wasting money to buy coins they don't need.
I give up. This has been explained to you numerous times, I'm not quite sure why you're still so adamantly denying simple math. $5 < $20. I think I get what puwha is saying (can't believe I see his point, but its worth thinking through). Let me try without all the smoke and mirrors. Take the 500,000 mined PoW coins. Lets assume for the sake of argument that GAW mined zero of them, which is worst case for GAW. Who are the buyers? (for this purpose, a miner who retains a coin is economically the same as a buyer) (1) Speculators who think the price will go up. This group probably divides into (a) short term (betting on GAW trying to establish a floor price), and (b) long term (betting on long term rise in price of Paycoin irregardless of the floor). (2) Stakers/Commercials who need coins to stake. These are probably not the Orion Controller folks who most certainly would have bought coins in the $2 ICO round, but rather are folks who want to stake their wallets with GAW and/or their downloaded wallets for the 5% yield. If GAW does in fact establish the "floor", then most of 1(a) will dump, folks in 1(b) will dump a percentage of their holdings to lock in profits but will retain a position for the long term, and folks in 2 won't care. Let's say dump percentages in that case are 1(a) - 90%, 1(b) - 50%, and 2 - 5% If you assume a 50/50 distribution between speculators and commercials, and an equal distribution also between short and long term speculators, I think what puwha is saying is that GAW doesn't need to buy ALL the 500,000 wild XPY; they only need to buy 90 % of the coins held by 1(a) group, 50% of the 1(b) coins, and 5% of the coins held by group 2. So the likely cost is much less even at a flat $20/coin than the assumed $3,000,000 max. Moreover, if GAW tries to buy all 500,000 wild caught coins for $6 in market now, a massive buy like that would quickly escalate the price well above $6. That would mean that the long term speculators 1(b) and commercials 2 would pay more for their coins... so GAW would be hurting is loyal base by doing so. Whether puwha is right depends heavily on your assumptions about how many coins are going into holders in each group, and what those holders are expecting in terms of exit price tiers. And you actually believe that this is what has been running through puwha's mind and he just opted to never verbalize any of it? You seriously can not. His point about GAW not having to buy any paycoins was based solely on him not comprehending basic math and he proved that many times over. It is that simple. No... just too lazy to do the math. Thanks eightcylinders. I step away to eat dinner with the family for a few hours, and now have to go absorb what the hell is happening tonight. |
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You have insulted yourself far more than anyone ever could by simply continuing to open your mouth and spew utterly ridiculous comments and questions. It seems as though you are a glutton for punishment as you never shut up and say the same things over and over ad nauseam. Does someone actually have to slap you upside the head to get you to understand all of this or to at least attempt to get your presimian brain to wrap around such basic math?
Ugh... you don't want to discuss anything do you? I hope you see the irony in your statements considering you do nothing but state the same things over and over again. Though, you do usually come up with unique insults, I'll give you that. puwaha, we've discussed it over and over. It comes down to this. You guys/gals all believe Josh on face value and are unwilling to entertain the possibility of what we are saying to be true. You keep asking for proof that it is a ponzi. We have provided many red flags and issues, crappy videos without sound showing minimal mining when they said they'd do a clear walk through, lack of transparency to show mining etc. You continue to ask for definite proof that it is a scam yet you can't provide any proof yourself that it isn't a scam. You're unwilling to believe us and we are unwilling to believe you. The people here questioning it work on logic and facts of which none have been provided to us. When we ask questions of supporters such as yourself the answer are always indirect and dance around the issue. I get it... many have invested a alot and don't want to believe that it is a scam. The end result is we can't help you and you can't help us. Make up your own mind and be done with it. You won't convince us here and we won't convince you likely. I'll be the bigger man and in a years time if its shown as legitimate has all regulatory bodies involved and is transparent i will retract each and every one of my statements and apologize. I would hope that should this be exposed you will also return to this topic stating the same. Nobody here is commenting against GAW because they are jealous of success etc... many have money and could invest if they so choose. The fact they don't and are criticising GAW to this degree with valid questions should indicates something just isn't right. No, I get it now. |
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You don't think GAW has run these models?
No, I really don't they seem like they are totally winging it. Even you have to admit that. Things change on a day by day basis. Their master plan seems to be: survive until tomorrrow. It looks bad from this angle, no doubt. |
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Except... you still haven't explained *why* they need to buy those coins from the exchanges for $5. Then they will be accused of price manipulation and owning 100% of the coins in existence. Just more fodder for what you are trying to do here.
So the hypothetical $7.5M out of GAW's pocket is the price they pay *not* to look like they are manipulating the coin? Are you serious? You think they have to buy all 500K coins at the end of POW? Some will go to other exchanges, some will get staked, some will get home wallet staked, some will get cashed. You don't think GAW has run these models? |
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You still haven't explained why they need to buy any coin from an exchange to prop up a floor that simply doesn't exist until paybase is opened. They are just wasting money to buy coins they don't need.
I give up. This has been explained to you numerous times, I'm not quite sure why you're still so adamantly denying simple math. $5 < $20. I think his whole purpose here is just to annoy us actually. Ignore if he bugs you. I love you too interstellar. I love how the haters complain about the heavy handedness at hashtalk but can't take a dose of their own medicine here... then complain that they wish they could have a moderated forum. |
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You still haven't explained why they need to buy any coin from an exchange to prop up a floor that simply doesn't exist until paybase is opened. They are just wasting money to buy coins they don't need.
I give up. This has been explained to you numerous times, I'm not quite sure why you're still so adamantly denying simple math. $5 < $20. I'll try one more time. What's more important to GAW, satisfying their current hashlet customers by keeping enough reserve to satisfy an expected dump?... or... 1. Trying to artificially pump up non-official exchanges 2. Buying coins they don't need, meaning they further decrease what reserve they have to satisfy the hashlet customers 3. Locking up some reserve in a stock of coins they then have to re-sell over time 4. Satisfy your whims, and look bad in the process? |
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Now... if you don't understand that they don't have to buy back all those coins because of natural market forces (arbitrage, and home stakers), then you will most likely never understand.
Finances are never as black and white as you imagine them to be.
 Cool GIF, bro. |
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As soon as they complete the HP->XPY conversion, they are going to need a shitload of BTC to cover those who decide to cash out their XPY.
Then they are going to need another shitload of BTC to cover all the miners who held their coin to cash out their XPY.
Then they are going to need yet another shitload of BTC to cover all the speculators (ie, mostly their own cultists) who bought XPY on the exchanges in hopes of arbitrage.
That my friend is going to be a hell of a lot of BTC going out the door on monday so they better have a damn big BTC wallet ready to go.
Yep... they are going to need a lot of BTC. But they have been mining it in reserve in return for the HP for a while now. I think you guys forget, that there will be a limit on how much BTC you can take out of Paybase without verification. |
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I am new to PoS systems .. never followed Peercoin much. So feel free to send me to a link that explains this, but as a programmer I am interested in how this works generally and in Paycoin specifically. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proof-of-stakeWhere does the 5% APY come from? It's the algorithm programmed into the wallet and the coin ecosystem. Presumably new coins? What is the verification process for this? Miners have to check each and every wallet address to calculate the time they sat unused, and then award new coins for unused wallet address balances? Luckily, no. The wallet keeps track of this for you. Does this calculation happen each block? That would seem to put an enormous strain on mining as the block chain grows and wallet addresses multiply (Big O time would be polynomial I am pretty sure, which would limit growth of the system very substantially).
Timestamps. The verification of the newly minted coins in POS would require block processing time, but it's pretty automatic. |
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I'm not missing the point. You guys are missing the point that GAW doesn't have to buy any coins. They already have the coins they need to fulfill the HP->XPY conversion. Please acknowledge that you understand this before moving on.
Yes, you are correct. GAW *does not* need to buy any coins to fund their HP->XPY conversion. That was accounted for in the premine. What do *you* think all the people who have been buying up coin at $4-$7 are going to do with it? Sit on it? Stake it? Some will move them to paybase and buy some crap, some will convert to BTC and walk away, some will wait until Jan 15th to convert to USD and walk away, some will stake in their home wallets, and some will stake in their hashstakers. There's a lot of moving parts here that you all seem to think will only happen one way. |
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