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1101  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: Ethereum & BitShares Partnership!! on: August 16, 2014, 02:34:34 AM
Does it mean both Vitalik and Dan are so afraid of NXT that they have to join efforts now? Wink
1102  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [NXT] Nxt - Official Thread on: August 15, 2014, 09:34:56 PM

Once you start rolling back the blockchain how is this decentralized or unlike fiat's credit card system?

Cryptos are quickly becoming fiat 2.0.  This is a tough choice cause $1.25 million is a lot of money to make up for but it definitely sets a bad precedent.  I'm not sure what the correct choice would be but if more and more coins do rollbacks then it would bring up other issues related to fiat and controlled, centralized systems. 

Centralized system - one entity decides what to do.
Decentralized system - 51% of forging power (hash rate in PoW terms) decide what to do.
Can you see the difference?
1103  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: rpietila Altcoin Observer on: August 15, 2014, 09:25:43 PM
This is good for them, but I am still out for now, the fact that this was on the table scares me.

It also presented an interesting argument about the trouble of large thefts of Nxt actually causing long term harm to the security of the Nxt chain, as each coin is essentially like a miner.

You don't seriously expect full unanimity among hundreds or thousands of people, do you? Of course someone would suggest something like that, but it's 51% of the forging power that decides what to do, not forum users. So you may regret your decision to sell very soon. The price can take a dump in the near term, because of lack of liquidity at exchanges (bter was the biggest exchange) and many people wanting to get out, but longer term NXT will be stronger than before after this incident, because it functions exactly as designed.
1104  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Marketplace (Altcoins) / Re: bter hacked and lost 50m nxt on: August 15, 2014, 09:00:50 PM
The idea that an exchange can rollback a cryptocoin "blockchain" is very damaging to the confidence -- that's not something anyone should fiddle with.

An exchange can't rollback anything in NXT. Only forgers can attempt to do that, if they amass 51% of forging power to create a longer chain. Same is true for any other coin. In the future, when Transparent Forging is implemented, forgers would have to amass 90% of forging power to be able to rewrite history. Judging by reaction of forgers to today's incident, this is not gonna happen, ever. Most forgers are for irreversability of transactions, which is one of the main ideas of crypto currencies.
1105  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: Ask me anything about NXT! on: August 15, 2014, 08:48:15 PM
lol, this thread........  Grin

How ironic it has become after today's events.

What's ironic?
NXT today is exactly as NXT yesterday, nothing changed. It operates strictly as designed.
1106  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: Asking DEVS to provide some defense against "Concentration"/Robbery attacks on: August 15, 2014, 08:29:54 PM
That's a long wall of text, sorry, I will answer only one question.

Quote
Why not cater to everybody?

Because you can't. Crypto currencies are not for everyone, because they imply responsibility on the part of users. If users are irreponsible with their finances, they need to use banks to keep their money for them. Everybody will never be responsible, humans are all different and are not equal in that aspect. That's why cryptos can't cater to everybody, whether we like it or not. We have to accept this fact and live with it, and educate people about being their own banks and not trust third party to keep their funds for them. That's all we, as a crypto community, can do. But in the end, everyone will be their own success or failure, depending on whether they learn from others' and their own experience or not learn from it.
1107  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: Asking DEVS to provide some defense against "Concentration"/Robbery attacks on: August 15, 2014, 07:07:53 PM
Don't store funds at exchanges, be your own bank. It's as simple as that. If you need to trade, deposit, buy/sell, withdraw, all within an hour, don't keep funds at exchanges longer. Exchanges are a point of failure. Cryptos are quite vulnerable due to various factors as is. Why add another danger by keeping funds at exchanges is beyond my understanding.
1108  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Marketplace (Altcoins) / Re: bter hacked and lost 50m nxt on: August 15, 2014, 06:41:41 PM
When Transparent Forging is implemented within NXT, the timeframe for a rollback will be only 10 blocks/minutes.
Right now, its 720blocks/12 hours, so even that window is now effectively closed.

Well, not yet, it will close at block 210605, which would be 720 blocks after the hack.
1109  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: Ask me anything about NXT! on: August 15, 2014, 06:00:47 PM
Are nxt supporters encouraged to spread FUD about other coins in order to try and steal their portion of market share?, as this practice might seem profitable in the short term the caustic atmosphere it creates will do damage in the long run by making the whole CryptoCurrency sector look like its just full of crypto-slugs slithering around not very attractive for anyone new.

NXT is super duper decentralized, nobody is encouraged to do anything, everyone does what they themselves think they should or must do.
My personal opinion - all is fair in love and war as they say. It's a crypto currency war, no prisoners will be taken, so get used to it.
1110  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Marketplace (Altcoins) / Re: bter hacked and lost 50m nxt on: August 15, 2014, 05:39:52 PM
roll it back already!!!

Those who want NXT to fail want exactly that - rollback. Forgers are voting against this with their forging power. The only legitimate case in a crypto currency to rewrite the blockchain is a software bug. Just like in Bitcoin. Period.
1111  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Marketplace (Altcoins) / Re: bter hacked and lost 50m nxt on: August 15, 2014, 04:12:10 PM
well, it looks like the idea of doing a rollback is not catching on with forgers, so the show is over, you can all go back to your usual daily business )
1112  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Marketplace (Altcoins) / Re: bter hacked and lost 50m nxt on: August 15, 2014, 02:14:42 PM
The NXT protocol allows to rewrite the last 720 blocks with transactions in them if 51% of forgers decide to do it. This is by design until TF is implemented. We're now going to find out if 51% of forgers are for or against rewriting history, in about 15-16 hours. So basically, it's all standard operation, maybe a stress test mode for NXT network if you wish.


You can NOT rewrite history and be taken seriously

This is no different from Bitcoin. If 51% of miners decide to rewrite history, they can secretly mine a longer chain and reverse all txs in the orphaned chain. Bitcoin is taken seriously. Not by all.

And has all the Bitcoin miners gotten together and mined a longer chain? EVER?

Well, we don't know for sure, there were orphaned blocks, I've seen myself, and you don't know for sure how much of that happens, because it's a secret chain, it's called selfish mining Smiley

Well, that hasn't happened in NXT yet, so why all this agitation Smiley Forgers have a choice, that's true, which choice will they take - that is for all to see in a few hours. This is how crypto currencies operate Smiley
1113  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Marketplace (Altcoins) / Re: bter hacked and lost 50m nxt on: August 15, 2014, 02:10:45 PM

bter is frozen and no trades on cryptsy in the last hours... any other exchanges to get a look at the price?


Dunno, those were the biggest, maybe dgex.com, but price would be all over the place now, I think, no reason to look at it, unless you want to buy some cheap NXTs, some people would panic sell I guess.
1114  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Marketplace (Altcoins) / Re: bter hacked and lost 50m nxt on: August 15, 2014, 02:09:46 PM
The NXT protocol allows to rewrite the last 720 blocks with transactions in them if 51% of forgers decide to do it. This is by design until TF is implemented. We're now going to find out if 51% of forgers are for or against rewriting history, in about 15-16 hours. So basically, it's all standard operation, maybe a stress test mode for NXT network if you wish.


You can NOT rewrite history and be taken seriously

This is no different from Bitcoin. If 51% of miners decide to rewrite history, they can secretly mine a longer chain and reverse all txs in the orphaned chain. Bitcoin is taken seriously. Not by all.
1115  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Marketplace (Altcoins) / Re: bter hacked and lost 50m nxt on: August 15, 2014, 02:05:12 PM
The NXT protocol allows to rewrite the last 720 blocks with transactions in them if 51% of forgers decide to do it. This is by design until TF is implemented. We're now going to find out if 51% of forgers are for or against rewriting history, in about 15-16 hours. So basically, it's all standard operation, maybe a stress test mode for NXT network if you wish.
1116  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Marketplace (Altcoins) / Re: bter hacked and lost 50m nxt on: August 15, 2014, 01:59:32 PM
This incident will make NXT stronger.

I think i saw those kind of statements in the vrc thread also...What happened next?

VRC was too centralized I think, NXT is not. It could hurt NXT short-term, that's not out of the question.
1117  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Marketplace (Altcoins) / Re: bter hacked and lost 50m nxt on: August 15, 2014, 01:53:56 PM
This incident will make NXT stronger.
1118  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Marketplace (Altcoins) / Re: bter hacked and lost 50m nxt on: August 15, 2014, 01:43:58 PM
In NXT the last 720 blocks are reversible (there are rolling checkpoints), which means if forgers gather 51% of power and decide to rewrite those last 720 blocks, they can.

When TF is implemented (scheduled in a few months), rogue forgers will have to gather 90% of forging power and they would be able to rewrite only the last 10 blocks.

BTER get hacked and lose a bunch of NXT. Crypti price gets creamed. BTC withdrawals from BTER are frozen.

People are arguing about whether to roll back or not (probably only a few serious minds really know the answer to this based on the NXT code even though everyone seems to have an opinion about it).

A large investor threatens to sue everyone on planet earth before sending them to jail.

Interesting stuff. Question: If it is correct to say that there are checkpoints in the NXT blockchain, would it be possible and in that event would it make sense to unravel the fraudulent transaction whilst leaving legitimate transactions intact or is this an oversimplification?

It will be possible if 51% of forging power is sent to forge on the new chain, the longest chain wins. Only forgers (stakeholders who forge) decide whether to mine on the old chain or to join the new chain.
1119  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Marketplace (Altcoins) / Re: bter hacked and lost 50m nxt on: August 15, 2014, 01:36:15 PM
In about 16 hours it will be clear which chain wins, it will be exactly 720 blocks since the hack.
1120  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Marketplace (Altcoins) / Re: bter hacked and lost 50m nxt on: August 15, 2014, 01:34:27 PM
In NXT the last 720 blocks are reversible (there are rolling checkpoints), which means if forgers gather 51% of power and decide to rewrite those last 720 blocks, they can.

When TF is implemented (scheduled in a few months), rogue forgers will have to gather 90% of forging power and they would be able to rewrite only the last 10 blocks.
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