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1401  Bitcoin / Pools / Re: Only Getting around 5-27 GH/s with Butterfly 50GH/s Unit on: November 25, 2013, 07:27:03 AM
Deepbit makes sense.  Their servers are outdated and still use getwork.  Don't waste your time trying to use an ASIC over getwork.


What's strange is BTC Guild output showing 27 GH/s.  I do see one work submit delay, which could have been a disconnect/loss of connection on 3G.  The hardware errors seem a little high, but I'm not too familiar with BFL ASICs.  Your reject rate looks sane for BFL + 3G (higher latency) connection.

I'm actually wondering if you've been given a 25 GH/s mini-single instead of a 50 GH/s full single.
1402  Bitcoin / Pools / Re: [1400 TH] BTC Guild - Pays TxFees+Orphan, Stratum, MergedMining, Private Servers on: November 25, 2013, 06:54:53 AM
regarding login procedure: is 2FA or CAPTCHA a thought which is worth to think about for security reasons?

thank you!

Captcha is just a pain in the ass for everybody, and there's no way to make it look good and fit with the interface the way the current login does.

2FA is something I've considered, but it's an extra layer I don't feel is needed.  If your email is locked, you're safe unless your email is compromised and used to compromise your BTC Guild account.  If your wallet is locked, you're safe even if your email and BTC Guild account are compromised.  2FA is a support nightmare when somebody loses/bricks/wipes their phone authenticator.  It's bad enough dealing with people who formatted their hard drive and lost their locked wallet, I'm sure phones are formatted/bricked/lost a hell of a lot more frequently than that.
1403  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Decentralized Mining & Preventing Centralization in Pools on: November 25, 2013, 05:45:43 AM
Couldn't the pool validate your shares without knowing the full merkle tree?  So the miner provides the PoW via the block header, plus a merkle branch which proves that the pool is paid in the coinbase transaction.

To submit a block, the pool has to have the entire raw block worth of data.  So if the block is 500KB, the miner would have to upload the full 500KB being used to build the block to the pool, plus a bit of overhead for the JSON markup, assuming the miner was actually involved in building the block.

There are *some* ways to shrink this, where the pool dictates what transactions can be selected, with a tx-id integer (instead of full hash) so the miner could just upload a list of the transactions they included in the block, or a list of ones they excluded.  But once the miner is introducing their own transactions from their local node that the pool wasn't originally aware of, this is no longer possible, since the pool needs to know the raw transaction.


Reading this, only understanding 30% of it Sad

Sincere question, maybe it was covered here but I couldn't understand it.  What is the real world chance that one day in the close future (next 12 months say), somebody will do something like this 51% attack thing, or some fault will be discovered, that creates big problems for bitcoin?  Is it a high risk of happening?

A 51% is extremely unlikely.  Even the largest pools now represent less than 30% of the actual network hash rate.  Luck spikes make their 24-hour block percentage above 30%, but this can't be predicted and is not reliable.  The 51% attack threat is having enough power to guarantee eventually you will make the longest chain as long as you keep trying.  If the largest pools were DDoS'd, most of that hash rate filters down to backup pools, so the argument that you just DDoS the largest pools to make a 51% attack easier is not quite accurate.
1404  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Decentralized Mining & Preventing Centralization in Pools on: November 25, 2013, 05:20:10 AM
I thinking the pool operator (server) does so little relative to work of the pool miners that it doesn't need to charge a very high fee. Thus there isn't much ability (incentive for pool miners) to uncut competitors based on fee.

So there just needs to be a slightest incentive to encourage pool miners to seek out another pool as a pool grows large. This will encourage a poliferation of pools.

How do pool miners know that a pool server isn't cheating them by paying some of the earnings to themselves pretending to be a pool miner?

Go down that line of thought and you will discover what I am thinking.

The only way you can prove a pool isn't cheating is by estimating the hash rate of the pool and comparing it to the number of blocks found.  Unfortunately, you could probably still skim a couple of a percent this way.

Modern protocols (GBT & Stratum) both have the full coinbase transaction visible to the miners, meaning you can verify that the block being built will be paid to a certain address or has a certain message encoded in the block that identifies the pool.  This allows you to audit if the pool is trying to skim blocks if certain users start seeing work without a coinbase message that identifies the pool.  In the case of BTC Guild, it's both, they always pay to the same address and always include "Mined by BTC Guild" in the coinbase message.

It's not no-trust, but all it would take is a few % of users monitoring this to determine if a pool was trying to skim blocks by sending a certain % of work that doesn't include identifying marks.
1405  Bitcoin / Pools / Re: [1200 TH] BTC Guild - Pays TxFees+Orphan, Stratum, MergedMining, Private Servers on: November 24, 2013, 09:09:15 PM
I know this has been talked about before... anyways, AFAIK high duplicate count is normally attributed to client side.
But I still find it hard to understand how the fault is on my side. I got my Jupiter and my Saturn on the same ethernet switch, with same interwebs connection and still, my Sat duplicate count is always through the roof at the guild...
Running latest firmware .99. Using bfgminer mod behaves the same...

Any new info regarding this subject?

They are 100% client side, and they will happen on ANY other pool at the same rate (unless the pool is sloppy and actually pays you multiple times for the same submission), BTC Guild is just one of the few pools that actually publishes the stat to your dashboard instead of ignoring it.  They are most commonly firmware related or hardware bug related.

Thnks for replying.
...hmmm firmware or hardware bug... I wonder, theyr running the same firmware so, what kind of hardware bug could cause this?
Will setting worker difficulty higher ease the problem?

In *all* my experience with FPGAs/ASICs, duplicates are meaningless.  They're a firmware bug in that the hardware is resubmitting a result to the controller, rather than the miner actually doing the same work twice.  That's why I'm considering removing it (I already exclude it from your reject %), it's literally just a sort of visual artifact with no meaning/impact on results.
1406  Bitcoin / Pools / Re: [1200 TH] BTC Guild - Pays TxFees+Orphan, Stratum, MergedMining, Private Servers on: November 24, 2013, 08:48:16 PM
Automatic payouts (mostly the small ones under 0.10) were getting delayed earlier today.  A lot of people dropped their payout to <0.10, and as a result there was a backlog started.  I've re-run the small auto payout script a few times just now to clear out the backlog, and updated the pool payout schedule to run twice hourly for all 3 categories of payouts:

Large auto payouts (0.10+) now process 7 minutes after the hour and 37 minutes after the hour.
Small auto payouts (Under 0.10) now process 27 minutes after the hour and 57 minutes after the hour.
Manual payouts now process 17 minutes after the hour and 47 minutes after the hour.
1407  Bitcoin / Pools / Re: [1200 TH] BTC Guild - Pays TxFees+Orphan, Stratum, MergedMining, Private Servers on: November 24, 2013, 08:45:35 PM
I know this has been talked about before... anyways, AFAIK high duplicate count is normally attributed to client side.
But I still find it hard to understand how the fault is on my side. I got my Jupiter and my Saturn on the same ethernet switch, with same interwebs connection and still, my Sat duplicate count is always through the roof at the guild...
Running latest firmware .99. Using bfgminer mod behaves the same...

Any new info regarding this subject?

They are 100% client side, and they will happen on ANY other pool at the same rate (unless the pool is sloppy and actually pays you multiple times for the same submission), BTC Guild is just one of the few pools that actually publishes the stat to your dashboard instead of ignoring it.  They are most commonly firmware related or hardware bug related.
1408  Bitcoin / Pools / Re: Neighbourhood Pool Watch 16.2 Mapping the historical pool hashrate on: November 24, 2013, 07:46:30 AM
Sorry I can't give you the May 2011 through ~October 2011 speeds for BTC Guild.  All that information was wiped when the pool switched from free proportional to PPS Sad.

I thought this would be a problem, so the charts don't show hashrate - just blocks per week and then blocks per week as a percentage of total of network blocks per week. Do you have block history going back before that?

Unfortunately, BTC Guild history pre-October 2011 is pretty much lost Sad.  It was only about 5 months old, and I was still learning as I went along back then.  I didn't quite realize importance of keeping all that just for historical accuracy back then, after only being involved in BTC for half a year, paired with the long sustained decline in value after the 2011 bubble popped.  We didn't start signing the coinbase until PoolServerJ was released.
1409  Bitcoin / Pools / Re: [1200 TH] BTC Guild - Pays TxFees+Orphan, Stratum, MergedMining, Private Servers on: November 24, 2013, 07:43:15 AM
So I've recently gone from 1.3gh to 19gh/s and im wondering if .015btc/24hr is the "right" amount to be receiving, I really lazily used the 50btc.com MH/s calculator and they claim i should be getting .03btc/24hr, Wich is double what btcguild is giving right now, Thats alot more than 2% (the fee)

So, are we having badluck?, Is it somekind of AntiHop mechanism in action? Is 50btc lying by 200% to get people to mine at their pool?
The http://www.alcula.com/calculators/finance/bitcoin-mining/ calculator says .015btc/24hr, so it would seem 50btc is lying out their ass

Considering 50BTC's history about quite a lot of things, including their PPS rates by cheating miners out of more than a few % due to rounding off the decimals...not a surprise.  I'm surprised so many people actually believe they're going to get any money out of them when they haven't made a post in almost a month.  Even if they were hacked, it's looking like they used it as an excuse to run off with whatever was left in the cold wallets at this point.
1410  Bitcoin / Pools / Re: [1200 TH] BTC Guild - Pays TxFees+Orphan, Stratum, MergedMining, Private Servers on: November 23, 2013, 08:27:04 PM
sorry, wasn't really trying to be a dick, just standing up for our man E

Try to keep it civil please (says the person who drops f-bombs regularly in IRC).
1411  Bitcoin / Pools / Re: Neighbourhood Pool Watch 16.2 Mapping the historical pool hashrate on: November 23, 2013, 06:54:44 PM
Sorry I can't give you the May 2011 through ~October 2011 speeds for BTC Guild.  All that information was wiped when the pool switched from free proportional to PPS Sad.

One request/suggestion:  Perhaps a graph which only shows a smaller subset of pools?  It's virtually impossible to distinguish them when their colors are so similar.
1412  Bitcoin / Pools / Re: [1200 TH] BTC Guild - Pays TxFees+Orphan, Stratum, MergedMining, Private Servers on: November 23, 2013, 06:49:53 PM
Can the operator then help a brother out? I only have 25 NMC set my NMC address and set the auto payout to be .1. I've waited several hours and those aren't moving. Can you tell me what I'm doing wrong? Thanks.


Automatic payouts are processed every hour, and it sends *the amount you set it to*.  Set your auto payout to 25 and you'll get 25 NMC.  At 0.1, you'll only get 0.1/hr.
1413  Economy / Speculation / Re: what xmas around the corner and thanksgiving around the corner on: November 23, 2013, 05:57:46 AM
I remember my first Christmas in Bitcoin-land.  I figured the price would take a hit due to large selloffs as people sold their BTC stash to buy gifts...then the price went up instead and my first major prediction on BTC market movement was dead wrong.
1414  Bitcoin / Mining / Re: Pools please rais blocksize limit! on: November 23, 2013, 02:43:14 AM
Also 150KB for free txs per block?  Awesome that is pretty generous.

It's not 150KB free (that's blockprioritysize, not minblocksize).  The space set aside for freebies/low-fee is 27KB.  If it doesn't have 150KB of transactions, it will include extra freebies to fill up the space.
1415  Bitcoin / Pools / Re: [1200 TH] BTC Guild - Pays TxFees+Orphan, Stratum, MergedMining, Private Servers on: November 22, 2013, 09:38:08 PM
I have an other question, what is better:

a) delivering shares with an diff of 1024 (on my Jupiter) or shares with an lower diff (on eligius my shares mixed 128 / 256 / 512 but no 1024)
    Will the shares with higher diff paid better?


The higher the difficulty, the higher the variance. Over days, weeks, years, decades, it all should average out. Simply, if your choice is 1024 or 128, the 1024 shares will pay 8 times more than the 128 shares, but you will find the 128 shares 8 times as often, on average.

I will switch to 128 with 1024 i have an avg. of 360,000 shares per shift.
Is is to low or ok.

I will see it when the next shift is filled.

Is it correct, that I will be paid for every delivered / accepted share inside the shift?

Thanx for feedback.

Is there any other thread about btc gulid?

Your shares per shift should roughly reflect your speed vs the pool speed.  So if you have 1300 GH/s and the pool is 1300 TH/s, you should be 0.1% of the shares in a shift.  At this time, shifts are 1 billion shares.  It will fluctuate between shifts based on your personal luck, as well as the pool's speed fluctuations.


Without knowing your mining speed, I can't provide much guidance on the proper difficulty.  128 should be fine as a starting point, the pool will adjust it higher if it's needed.
1416  Bitcoin / Pools / Re: [1200 TH] BTC Guild - Pays TxFees+Orphan, Stratum, MergedMining, Private Servers on: November 22, 2013, 08:08:16 PM
API apps may currently be broken due to attack mode being activated on Cloudflare.  Somebody is slamming the web server pretty hard.  The new API server is hopefully coming up within the next few days which will not be required to go through a cloudflare server [which breaks most API pollers when Attack Mode is turned on].
1417  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Decentralized Mining & Preventing Centralization in Pools on: November 22, 2013, 06:25:10 AM
How about people start adopting this new mining protocol? https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Getblocktemplate

This allows the miner to build the block rather than the pool, so the miner can implement their own policy as to what goes into the block.  This means that pool operators with a large share of hashing power cannot abuse that power to do things like exclude certain transactions from blocks, or have unreasonably high fee thresholds.  The content of the block would be based on the transaction policies of the person who happened to mine it, which would have a lot of variation since each block would likely come from a different miner.

This also means that the miner who first finds the block can broadcast the block, which makes it impossible for the pool to do "selfish mining".

No pool at this time actually supports miners picking and choosing transactions with GBT.  They use GBT the same way pools use stratum.  They give you the block contents, you mine it.  You have no say.

There is a whole new level of complication added to the Miner<->Pool dynamic when it comes to letting miners pick transactions.  Specifically, the pool needs to know which transactions you're including every time you send in shares so it can validate your share results are correct.  This is a MASSIVE amount of bandwidth that would be required when looking at even a 10% fraction of the pool opting for it, not to mention a large increase in stale rates for most miners since they would have to upload 300-500KB to the pool to tell them the block contents.  Hell, GBT is already a complete major bandwidth hog compared to Stratum because it has to send miners the entire block contents when it pushes work instead of just a merklebranch.
1418  Bitcoin / Pools / Re: [1200 TH] BTC Guild - Pays TxFees+Orphan, Stratum, MergedMining, Private Servers on: November 22, 2013, 06:21:11 AM
Hey eleuthria, have the AM folks gotten back to you about the Cubes?

They have, but I'm not sure if I'm going to bite on them.  Due to the big fluctuations in BTC:USD, they're quoting a price in USD for once.  Unfortunately, that puts me in the situation where by buying cubes for inventory, I'm basically betting against the value of BTC rising between the time I place the order and the time I sell them.
1419  Bitcoin / Pools / Re: [1200 TH] BTC Guild - Pays TxFees+Orphan, Stratum, MergedMining, Private Servers on: November 22, 2013, 04:58:31 AM
Small automatic payouts (payouts under 0.10 get processed in a separate batch) got stuck a little earlier today.  A few runs of the automatic payout script were run to clear up any backlog that was caused by the delay.  Larger auto payouts and manual payouts were unaffected.
1420  Bitcoin / Mining / Re: Pools please rais blocksize limit! on: November 22, 2013, 02:18:17 AM
BTC Guild has been using a max size of 500KB and min size of 150KB for months (the only gap being when we had the 0.8 hardfork event and had to wait a few months to give everybody time to upgrade before allowing another potential hardfork block due to the bug in 0.7 and earlier versions).

Orphans are a concern for all pools, but my experience has shown that these sizes did not materially affect orphan rates, and actually reduced stale shares for users.  The minimum size helped our nodes clear out the memory pool faster, which is the biggest slowdown when a new block is found and bitcoind recalculates the priority of everything in the memory pool to build it's new blocks.
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