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1481  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: Submersing a rig on: January 25, 2012, 09:17:16 AM
What about if you used a metal box like an ammo box that you can just fit the cards into. Leave the fans on the cards to circulate the oil. Because the cards fit snugly into the box not as much oil is needed to submerge them, this way you can use the mineral oil rather than run the risk of vegetable oil.

Place the metal box into a larger plastic container of water. Place it the top of the metal box is sitting above the top of the plastic container so any accidental water overflow goes onto the floor not into the box. Pump water into the plastic container and use gravity to take it back to the pond via an overflow. The oil/metal/water interface should be a good heat conductor.

Make sure you put a zinc in the water to stop galvanic series eating the box away.

While this may work, you effectively reduce the surface area for the thermal transfer to the size of the box. I suspect an oil cooler would have a larger surface area, and for my setup at least, its much easier to drop a cooler in my existent filters where I already have waterflow, than create a box and somehow circulate large amounts of water through there without overflowing it due to pump head. With gravity return that means HUGE pipes or low flow.  You would also risk a fair amount of water evaporating in a place where I dont want humidity, ie, in the shed where my rigs are.

The idea of an ammo box is excellent though.


Oh, and no zinc in the water. My Koi dont like it Smiley

Quote
I cannot see the issue about thermal grease being eaten away, if it was wouldn't just be replaced by the oil that ate it??

Yes, the problem is thermal grease can be conductive. You dont want it dissolved in the oil. But indeed, for temperatures it should not be a big concern as it would be replaced by oil.  To make sure no air gets trapped, you will want to smear some oil on the die before re-mounting the heatsink.
1482  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: Submersing a rig on: January 25, 2012, 08:55:04 AM
Its not so far out of the box, since I got the idea while reading about mineral oil often being used to seal other liquids. So why not vegetable oil Smiley
Anyway, Ill go shopping this weekend and Im buying some extra parts to build a rig around an old 8800GT to experiment with.

Some other points I came across:
- thermal grease will dissolve in oil. Before plunging in the cards, youlll have to remove all thermal grease. I hope the vrm pads will manage.
- I came across one report of overheating with a S775 CPUs, despite the oil being cool. apparently caused by air trapped in the socket; though Im not quite sure I understand how that would work, Im assuming this is not a problem with GPUs as there are no sockets.
1483  Bitcoin / Mining support / Re: Will minning bitcoins kill your card? on: January 25, 2012, 08:13:44 AM
Temp1-3 are different sensors, no? I don't see any others with gpu-z.

INdeed, you posted all 3. Still its worth pointing out that your 850/300 temps are unsurprisingly lower than your 960/300 temps despite lower fan speeds, so my point stands. Its also a fair point to make that gaming cards are not designed to run what AMD would consider a thermal virus 24/7. Professional compute cards from AMD and nVidia (firepro and quadro) are mostly based on the chips as the gaming cards, but they generally run at lower clocks and voltages. These cards are designed to run 24/7 at max load.
1484  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: Submersing a rig on: January 25, 2012, 08:07:22 AM
Ive been reading and searching further on this subject to decide on the oil. I can not find a cheap local source of mineral oil, so Im gonna go for vegetable oil. Im aware this is less stable and can oxidize (go rancid). It seems the biggest factors contributing to oxidation are sunlight and humidity. The first is easy enough to tackle, I have no need for a transparent aquarium, by setup is going to be butt ugly anyway.

To counter humidity, Im going to try to add a layer of mineral oil on top of the vegetable oil as sealant. Mineral oil is lighter and should therefore float on top, but Ill have to see if it mixes or not.

If anyone has other suggestions, Im all ears. Is there something lighter than mineral oil that is stable and not conductive to use as sealant?
1485  Bitcoin / Mining support / Re: Will minning bitcoins kill your card? on: January 25, 2012, 07:47:34 AM
I know. I mean it should work at least 2-3 years with 24/7 mode and with temp <70C. Overclocking + undervolting will kill a card faster if temp is in safe spot (<70C), than stock freq/volt with >80C?

Obviously not. Both current and temperature are key exacerbating factors of electromigration. Clockspeed afaik, is not. But its a false dilemma, because a higher clockspeed will result in higher temperature and require higher voltage, regardless of what your testing shows (hint: there are several temperature sensors in the GPU, you are measuring only one, quite possibly GpuIO which is the memory controller. Try checking the shader sensor).
1486  Other / CPU/GPU Bitcoin mining hardware / Re: Does anyone else have stability issues with linuxcoin on: January 24, 2012, 09:55:16 PM

As RJK mentioned; those are the worst, because of the design. Its 2 slots and 2 sockets.
Without extender, so plugging a card straight in to the motherboard, you have a single non-soldered socket. With a regular extender cable you have 2. With your clumsy extender there are 4 per device!
1487  Other / CPU/GPU Bitcoin mining hardware / Re: Does anyone else have stability issues with linuxcoin on: January 24, 2012, 07:40:49 PM
Technically the extender is just a cable extender and it is dumb ( has no extra circuitry ) so should work as long as it is within the 19 cm or so spec limit.

Its not just length, there is much more to it. Just the fact you have a connector is a huge issue and greatly limits clockspeeds and can introduce all kind of problems. There is a reason soldered GDDR (vram) is so much faster than socketed DDR ram (and a reason you can not socket GDDR).
1488  Other / CPU/GPU Bitcoin mining hardware / Re: Does anyone else have stability issues with linuxcoin on: January 24, 2012, 07:07:51 PM
Maybe it has something to do with the fact that these new boards have UEFI and fancy chips like PLX PEX8608, NF200, Lucid Hydra and these chips add extra latency to the routing and the extenders also do that and the driver cuts off any cards that do not respond within a certain ms limit or something ?

UEFI; no not likely a factor. But you may have a point, if the motherboard has a PCIe switch onboard, it may give you less headroom to use extenders. Extenders do not conform to the PCIe spec, it just exploits some headroom, but there might not be enough on complex boards with long traces or perhaps slightly more crappy PCIe controllers.
1489  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Technical Support / Re: Ubuntu with multiple 6970s not working - need serious help on: January 24, 2012, 05:48:52 PM
Do you get the ubuntu splash screen before it turns black? Can you SSH in to the machine? Does the numlock still turn on and off?
Have you tried booting with nomodeset
1490  Other / CPU/GPU Bitcoin mining hardware / Re: Mining on an older mobo: Practical? on: January 24, 2012, 03:57:25 PM
It did set fire to the motherboard so that was a negative.

Pfft. Nitpicking. And really, it did you a favor Smiley
1491  Bitcoin / Mining support / Re: Will minning bitcoins kill your card? on: January 24, 2012, 03:50:30 PM
I don't think videocard can die if everything tuned properly, otherwise it can die even from playing games with high AA @ stock frequencies!

And its not like videocards that are not used for mining ever die  Huh

Its really simple, any silicon chip thats used will eventually die. Its a given. The only question is how long it will take. It could be centuries, it could be days. But stressing these chips will reduce their lifespan, particularly when overvolting and overheating. If you are lucky, you may never notice, but it doesnt change the facts.
1492  Other / CPU/GPU Bitcoin mining hardware / Re: Buy or sell 5970?! on: January 24, 2012, 03:33:26 PM
I think your analysis is flawed.  If mining is not helping to dictate prices on high end cards, why is the price of used 5970's rising?  

I might believe for used 5970s prices bitcoin mining is perhaps not entirely irrelevant, after all, this is a really niche product and really attractive for mining. I dont know how many AMD ever sold, but to put this in perspective, the entire bitcoin network represents only ~10.000 5970s. Considering AMD sold millions of cypress based cards, bitcoin really is not that important in setting prices. For 7970, Id be shocked if 1% was bought for mining.

Here, another datapoint:

In the very near future, as we overcome supply constraints, we will be increasing shipments of 5800 series graphics processors by roughly an order of magnitude, moving from thousands of units shipped per week to tens of thousands.  This should alleviate some of the pent-up demand.
http://www.hardwareheaven.com/news.php?newsid=322

So the entire bitcoin network represents roughly 1 week worth of AMD 58x0 sales.
1493  Other / CPU/GPU Bitcoin mining hardware / Re: Buy or sell 5970?! on: January 24, 2012, 03:13:16 PM
Will Kepler continue Nvdia's stellar record of absolute dogshit for mining?  If so, I think the resale value of the 7970 will stay high due to the mining demand.  If Kepler kills it in both gaming and mining, then I could see resale value of the 7970 plummeting.  

I have no idea if it will be any good for mining; but mining is like 0.1% of the highend GPU market, if that, its not setting prices. If list prices of 7970s plummet to $299, its not gonna help your resale value for a used one Smiley. And $299 in a few months is pretty much a given, at least if you believe semiaccurate, a site notorious for bashing nvidia and cheer leading ati, yet they claim Kepler will run circles around the 79x0 cards and launch at $299.
http://semiaccurate.com/2012/01/19/nvidia-kepler-vs-amd-gcn-has-a-clear-winner/

(price is mentioned elsewhere)
1494  Other / CPU/GPU Bitcoin mining hardware / Re: Buy or sell 5970?! on: January 24, 2012, 02:59:03 PM
I dont think resale value of the 7970s will be much better. It is of course now, but expect those prices to implode once nvidia's Kepler hits the market in a few months. Better hang on to those 5970s IMO, far better MH/$ now and comparable (if not superior) MH/W depending how much you can undervolt either card.
1495  Bitcoin / Pools / Re: [90 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! *** on: January 24, 2012, 02:39:44 PM
Just curious, what was the problem?
1496  Bitcoin / Pools / Re: [18 GH][0% Fee] A1BITCOINPOOL.COM 13 BTC BONUS PROPORTIONAL POOL on: January 24, 2012, 10:43:56 AM
Pool is down.
1497  Bitcoin / Pools / Re: [90 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! *** on: January 24, 2012, 10:41:24 AM
ozcoin is down too. Could it be a DDoS attack? most other big pools appear to be working though.
1498  Bitcoin / Pools / Re: [90 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! *** on: January 24, 2012, 08:51:01 AM
While the website is down, the backend still seems to work. Im not seeing any real problems?
1499  Economy / Goods / Re: [WTS]New Replacement fans ATI Video Card 4350 4870 4890 5450 5650 5850 5870 5970 on: January 24, 2012, 08:18:03 AM
For the most part, all these cards do indeed use the same fan (although Ive seen slight variations in amperage/wattage). The lowest end cards usually have a different non ref cooler, 5450s even tend to be passive, but for the cards that matter, these fans can be interchanged - for reference coolers.
1500  Other / CPU/GPU Bitcoin mining hardware / Re: Does anyone else have stability issues with linuxcoin on: January 24, 2012, 07:52:43 AM
Sounds like you have too many potential sources of problems. If I were you, Id start by plugging in a single card, with no extender cable and see what happens. If that magically solves all problems, slowly build form there, by adding the cables and extra cards and see when the problem occurs.
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