Obviously you cannot appreciate the fact that I have never lied in response to a direct question.
But you have lied on the forums, you know like when you first arrived here and claimed to be a fucking genius with a 120+ IQ, or the fact that you hid your BFL association and agenda for months. Yup you're a lying, misleading sack of shit but you can be proud you have never lied to a direct question, fucking idiot. |
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And why do people keep asking me this?
You write like him VERY similar: writing style (use of sarcastic humour and lots of meme's) post formatting thread topics of interest He knew BCP19's first name and that he worked at BFL, nothing else he claims about BF Labs has been substantiated yet. It doesn't matter much at this point anyway, OP is currently unwilling or unable to substantiate his claims (either for legitimate reasons or for some other ones). Do I believe BFL are up to no good and could be mining the hell out of customer gear, or shipping to industrial client and generally lying through their teeth? ABSOLUTELY I believe that, but we have no hard evidence of it yet so it's all still speculation at this point. Do I believe OP is PG, yes but again until something he claims can be substantiated it doesn't much matter. Nibb, whomever you are, thank you for the information about BCP. As for the rest I think most people here just want the truth and while most people suspect or would not be surprised if most of your claims were true we simply shouldn't use your unsubstantiated information as evidence. |
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From 'A point of order: Conduct in this subforum' :
".... Generally the subject matter should be boring —
technical, procedural, dry things. ..."
This thread might not fully comply with this rule I guess:)
Indeed not but it's been enjoyable watching it. Anyway I've been watching to try and decide where it fits so I'm now moving it to scam accusations. This is so sad! Now I'm labeled as a scammer when all I was trying to do is help you guys. This is one reason why I can't give my real name because somebody on this forum can claim stuff about me and it will be on the internet for ever. I am so mad now! I come here and tell the truth and am labeled a scammer. Butterfly labs misuses millions of dollars of other peoples money and is not. What kind of place is this forum anyway? This sub forum and the thread being moved here does not mean you're the scammer. I shouldn't speak for the mods but the sub this was originally in is technically for technical issues. If the thread is about the hardware manufacture scamming it's customers then this is technically the right sub for it to be in. It's kinda weird here, threads go massively OT and aren't moderated, some threads stay in the wrong sub for ever or too long, some get moved right away. I think the mods do the best they can but nothing is perfect. I wouldn't take this as the forums accusing you of being the scammer. If I remember correctly Josh on the BFL forum said you were the scammer. I don't remember anyone here giving a rats ass about the bitcents someone gave you. |
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I think there should be enough legal grounds here to go after Bitmine.ch.
There's two ways to legally go "after" Bitmine: Criminally - you will need to provide some type of proof to the authorities and then let them investigate and press charges Civilly - You will need to show a contract between yourself (or class of people) and Bitmine, in which you can show Bitmine breeched the contract and caused you damage. Dude Bitmine and AMT are both fucking the pony, but unfortunately AMT customers only have a contract with AMT. If AMT lost X million dollars because of a breech of contract with Bitmine, then AMT could go after Bitmine. It's just how the process works man, focus the energy in the right spot would be my advice FWIW. |
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Goat is next to Phin, the OP never worked for BFL, BFL did not sell any 28nm chips, nice try. Next.
SLoK, Goat is next to Josh, I am next to Phin. No one cares. How long has BFL been shipping the Monarch to its secret customer base? You dodged it three times so we now know its true, now we want to know how long? No Monarchs have been shipped but they are shipping the cock off the Monark! |
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To the guy that mentioned some lawsuit, like I said I don't want to get involved with any of that having to think about my family and all.
I think most people can respect that position and obviously it's your choice. BFL has a caused a lot of damage to the mining community, LOTS of people looking for blood so don't be surprised if you get a fair amount of attention with a controversial post like this. |
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bcp19, do you work for Butterfly Labs ?
Are you asking me? I'm not bcp19/Bruce. I used to work for Butterfly Labs, but not anymore. Apologies for not stating when or why I left but it was recent. I just don't want them to get a bearing on whom I am. No, not asking you. Asking bcp19 publicly as I'm sure he will see this post. Stupid me! I am so sorry. I misunderstood. For the person above this post who asked: "If this is legit information, thanks!" Is legit, and you are welcome. Since you're now curious as to where all them miners went and are continuing to go, here... http://www.coinware.io/. I wonder if we will see this in Jody's shipping blog lol. All kidding aside, if legit you should consider contacting the law firm with the lawsuit against BF Labs, you may have information which could help in the prosecution. If you're claims are legit you would be doing a great service to the mining community by talking to the law firm. You definitely don't understand it correct, no one that is still waiting for a Monarch will ever make their BTC back. |
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Yeah, we're there. Lets be practical. If the S3 sells for more BTC than it can mine @ 18% diff increases, then lets not buy it.
There has to be some incentive in it for the miner.
OK ?
Unfortunately that's not how real world economics work, ASIC manufacture's have figured this out but the people haven't. Simply put: In a market with imperfect data, price is determined by the most optimistic (STUPID) investors. BTC is the poster child of imperfect data: Electrical costs vary greatly, difficulty rate increase estimations vary, did I break even in terms of BTC or fiat, reliability of vendor and shipping time, extremely short term skew of supply vs demand. The Asic manufacture's understand that with sooooo much guessing going into ROI calculations that they simply need to find a number that enough stupid people will buy up everything they produce. Anything less than this is leaving money on the table and not smart business. |
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That being said AMT does not have to disclose that IMET was their manufacturer. This is actually more common than you think. Most large electronics companies source their stuff out like this. Foxconn is one of the more well known of these types of companies...(who are well known for making Apple products). They are known only because people are looking but not because they are disclosed.
Of course they don't have to disclose that information but they did (or someone found it out?). IMET appears to be in between a rock and a hard place either way. If we believe IMET, then we can safely assume they are simply looking for the best, cheapest easiest way to be made whole. They likely know litigation will be expensive and probably fruitless at the end of the day, so they should be willing to find the best way short of litigation to be made as whole as possible. Selling boards to AMT customers is probably a really bad idea for IMET. AMT and IMET need to fix this between themselves and involving AMT investomers some how is probably not a good option for IMET at this point (IMO). If we believe AMT, then IMET could be in for some heat. They would not be made whole and could face future litigation. IMET is eating a shit sandwich for doing business with AMT one way or another, but its largely irrelevant to AMT investomers. Supplier competency is just one of the many reasons (although it appears to be the only reason in miner manufacturing) that a company needs to be properly capitalized. Customers do not see or participate in the supplier negotiations, contracts etc, they also don't take any of those risks associated with those contracts. As you say most of the time it's not even disclosed to the customer. From a pure business stand point the entire miner manufacturing world is so fascinating. Almost all of the current manufacture's have done an almost text book perfect job of fucking up every basic business fundamental yet they thrive because short term supply and demand is EXTREMELY skewed. It is an enigma that will not last if BTC hangs around. The sustainability of business models used by most current manufactures is a HUGE joke. It's quite amusing to think that AMT can fight or settle the class action, pay for enough new miners to fulfil current obligations plus MPP plus sell enough new machines in a RAPIDLY declining market to stay afloat and pay off all their other accumulated debt, well that is laughable at best. Try taking that plan to the bank (without personal collateral) or VC and watch how fast they laugh your sorry ass out of the room. Everyone from AMT to it's suppliers to it's investomers are probably fucked because these half wits decided to break rule #1 (under capitalize their idiotic idea). |
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I know you're goofing phin, but it's not defamation if it's true. http://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/defamation-law-made-simple-29718.htmlSo it's really just a statement. One I've not seen refuted by the way. So unless they are lying about the check they have no grounds to sue for defamation. IMET on the other hand could sue if it was not their manufacturing process that cause the issue with the boards since AMT has openly blamed them. And this could obviously injure them financially. The problem here is that while its possible AMT issued a bad check, it's also entirely possible they are also lying to cover their asses. Consider this. Why is it that AMT's miner happened to be the ONLY group of miners that had these defects (technobit versions did not have these problems from those who had them), just A1 versions? No other manufacturers had issues that could not be fixed with firmware, this was hardware. The thing is these issues would have had to have happened at the point they chips got mounted. The fact that dpot settings would not stick also indicate a major hardware defect.... This is not firmware related. That much is obvious. Maybe AMT mounted the heatsinks. That would not necessarily explain the other overheat issues (maybe one or two cases but not all of them). There were alot of things that could have been prevented here. There are obvious flags on the fact it was hardware. Since IMET was sourced out to do this it seems like a likely situation. Bad check or not, the hardware given was still faulty. And IMET's story has changed. First they said AMT had 300 of 900 boards. About 1/3rd originally....and now more recently its changed to most of them? This again raises flags. And they admitted an interest in the bitcoin mining business which taints their motive. An IMET made miner is essentially what we got. Considering I had one that systematically failed with 5 boards dropping off within minutes of being powered on and 5 more dying over a period of days seems kinda odd to want a miner from them. I am not the only one with this story of the hardware failing in this manner. I imagine a more through search and post-mortem would identify more problems on the boards themselves just based on the symptomatic reactions the boards each had. Just think its important to demonstrate that this issue is not all just on AMT either despite the issues. Hell if we knew about IMET before the lawsuit they could have been named in all this. But its not the case now. Might not be too late to amend the case to include them. But I have to question their need to come on here and give few real concrete answers and do what is a clear CYA campaign. Explain to me why two of the AMT press releases that mention IMET were both censored (i.e. not published)? Why did AMT hide the fact that IMET was their manufacturer? There are 50+ miners that are missing in the wild unaccounted for. If IMET were to be believed, AMT is running a farce that they are shipping known broken miners to customers to give the impression that (1) they have nothing but broken miners. (2) they are mining with customer hardware. That is the only conclusion that does make sense. We'll find out more when we get more details in the lawsuit. Well, explain to me how IMET should be a defendant in the lawsuit? How can AMT claim damages when they didn't pay in full for their parts? IMET could not be named a co-defendant in the civil class action suit because no one within the class of plaintiffs ever had a contract, sales agreement or even any contact with IMET. IMET and AMT had a contract IF that contract was broken and IF that breech caused damage then legal recourse is available to the party involved in the contract that was damaged. This is just how the real world works, suggesting that IMET could be named in the civil class action is a joke at best and shows a lack of understanding the real world. This is pretty basic stuff and honestly CUSTOMERS do not take the risk of supplier competency , that is a something the company negotiates and takes the risk on. There is two contracts here one between AMT and their victims and one between AMT and IMET. They will be dealt with separately because they are separate contracts. Half the people in this forum have seriously misguided thoughts on how business works and how the legal system works, it's utterly amusing and discouraging all at the same time. IMET has EXACTLY ZERO legal obligations to ANY AMT investomer for ANY reason what so ever. |
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Some newer posts in the bfl forums seem to be worth further review. Particularly slok saying there is no class action suit. LOL.
Did the suit get class certification? As far as I know the suit hasn't been given class certification, yet. Clearly it's SOP misdirection tactic by camp BFL. Since the suit isn't certified class action yet he can claim there is no class action law suit and unsuspecting marks will hopefully get the idea things are fine and dandy. The comment had ONE single purpose and that was to PORTRAY a certain image, while trying desperately to maintain an air of legitimacy in order to make the new marks fell more secure... BFL is a propaganda JUGGERNAUT, and a good propaganda campaign can work on the unwashed masses for a LONG time. You know things are starting to unravel when the assholes start grasping at straws like this. Time is not on their side, the piper is coming, all that is left is to determine how much he wants and when he is coming for it. |
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When push comes to shove it is irrelevant what you wanted to do, what is relevant is what you did do. You took his money, end of mate. If you really didn't want to you wouldn't have, no matter how much he begged... If I beg you for 4 weeks for a $1000 gift will you just give it to me? Probably not because you really don't want to, I suspect no matter how much I beg you are extremely unlikely to gift me $1000. Can I have a $1000, please, seriously please I am begging!!! |
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Holy shit is AMT trolling someone that is suing them in public? What fucking goons.
The stupid is EXTREMELY strong with these halfwits. My guess is they are looking for a reaction from Clenell. They want something and he should be careful with their games. The smart money here is for him to ignore them completely, advise legal council and do EXACTLY what his legal council advises him to do, my guess is that advice will be STFU and let the lawyer do the talking... And some people wonder why others want to see these fucktards get their comuppins! Edit: Wow just noticed this little gem lol. AMT felt it appropriate to release a voice mail left by one of the plaintiff's which included the dudes fucking phone number... They then go on to taunt him some more, OMFG calling AMT fucktards is an insult to actuall fucking fucktards... You just can't make this shit up wow!  |
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I just had another Jalapeno trip the current protection on my power supply.
That makes it the third unit to do this.
You will be happy to know that you some how had the EXTREME misfortune of receiving 3 units that fell into the <2% failure rate, unless of course you bought 150 units then ok my apologies your within the BFL official failure rates. Let me clear up a few points here real quick: [BFL stole nothing. Unless someone can provide some proof to the contrary, they are lying. BFL has scammed no one. Unless someone can provide proof to the contrary, they are lying. (Go on, ask for proof from the trolls claiming scams, you'll never get it.) BFL gave refund for over six months past the estimated shipping date. BFL only stopped giving refunds after shipping started. Anyone who tells you differently is lying. There was no promised shipping date for the Monarch line and in fact there were big bold text stating that it is a preorder and subject to delay. Anyone who tells you the Monarch is late and that BFL made promises on delivery time is lying. ]BFL has shipped over 50,000 products in the 65nm line. The failure rate is less than 1% (0.72%) not including power supplies. If you include power supplies, that goes to 1.65%. Far lower than industry average and a simply awesome (lack of) failure rate. Contrast to the other mining companies equipment, which has double digit failure rates and it's even better. Anyone who tells you differently is lying.[/li][/list] OP's experience is the norm. People rarely come to a forum to post when they have a positive experience, they usually come and post to complain. After 50,000 units shipped and you look at the complaints, that should tell you something. Most people are not complaining, just a handful of disgruntled people and a whole lot of trolls who aren't even customers.[/li][/list] The only people who get rude responses from me are people who initiate a conversation with rudeness or lies. Go on, ask one of the trolls to provide proof to the contrary, you won't find it. The secret is being respectful and polite and you get the same in return. Be an asshole and you get the same in return... funny how that works. [/list] Over 6000+ complaints to PayPal and the FTC... Trolls indeed. I've seen the FTC proof (even though there were at least 10% duplicate items there), but the only "proof" to this is the statement by the probation officer. Don't you have a nice spreadsheet from paypal like the FTC had? C'mon Bickster, you're slacking here, get on the ball and get'r done! You need more proof than a United States Probation Officers under oath testimony in open court... Even defence council isn't stupid enough to question the validity of that statement... |
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Curious RickJamesBTC....what is your order number? Do you have one? Dont see you on the unofficial lists....Pot Kettle, Black? You have no real motivation in here either. Customers have all teh reason inthe world to bitch. I dont question their motives...but I will happily question yours. I have noticed no real contributions from you technical or otherwise come to think of it. Just bitching. I solve problems...its my job....I solve problems of a technical nature BUT occasionally I have to solve people problems that distract from solutions. In this case you are one of them. You are distracting people from getting their miners....I am one of those people distracted by having to respond to your useless bullshit.
If you are a customer well then you sympathise with the potential problem/solution here. We have a shot at making ourselves whole and I am working to make sure its a win-win for everyone. The lawsuit ultimatly will drain alot of money for AMT which means a partial or substandard results I do not want. By helping AMT (a few of us clients who are doing the same) we get the benefit of helping solve engineering problems and get them profitable to a point where they can make good on the MPP for those of us bound by it (they know its a thing that has to be honored for those who came before) there is now a lawsuit to enforce the accountability of all that. Assuming that goes well enough in our favor then at least those clients like myself working with them have a bit of say in how the end product turns out....we want a quality product. Hence our reasons. But again you never really stated your order number. Just wondering if you never were a customer and just butting in, or have some other reason for it. I wont come at AMT's customers this way because I know they ahve a reason to be pissed. But other busy bodies don't....or they do if the competition is trying to bury AMT....by paying people to do it.
You sir do not have the right to tell people (customers or not) what they can post and where they can post. If a non customer wants to post ANYTHING about the company on this forum, guess what they are ALLOWED to do this. I like how it always someone else fault if things don't go the way AMT wants. Guess what pal, AMT fucked everything up, everything is AMT's fault, AMT earned in spades the great big fat shit sandwich they are eating and I for one hope it tastes horrendous, they deserve it. If you wish to help them perpetuate the ponzi further by bringing in new money to pay off old debt so YOU get paid back, go for it, but don't you think for a second other peoples opinion on the situation aren't valid simply because they didn't buy from these scammers... If people are done giving AMT slack and want to bash them, sue them or whatever legal means they can, AMT fucking owns that shit. If they (and you) want people to stop bashing the fuck out of them ALL they have to do is start following the law and provide refunds, stop being ignorant cocksuckers to their investomers, stop making and breaking promises, you know act like a real fucking business. They can change this, and anyone wanting to point out their bullshit and lies should able to do so until AMT PROVES it has changed. I get that you are trying to work towards a resolution but you look like an asshole bashing anyone that doesn't have an order. People are pissed off and deal with it in different ways and guess what this forum allows ALL people to express themselves in their own way, if that doesn't help your cause then maybe your cause if a fucking deadbeat. AMT created the fire and now you have to deal with the heat, it's called life man, deal with it. A default response of "prove your a customer or fuck off" doesn't compel people to your side. |
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A reply of yours, quoted below, was deleted by the starter of a self-moderated topic. There are no rules of self-moderation, so this deletion cannot be appealed. Do not continue posting in this topic if the topic-starter has requested that you leave. You can create a new topic if you are unsatisfied with this one. If the topic-starter is scamming, post about it in Scam Accusations. Quote from: AMT_miners on June 05, 2014, 04:37:24 PM
You are one of the main reasons we are all in this mess. Go back to your corner and stop annoying the hell out of your counsel.
This is funny, I actually thought the main reasons for you being in this mess was your decision to: -use an extremely risky business model to fund the start up -fail to follow through with statements/promises/claims -"abuse" your clients in a public venue -illegally withhold refunds -ignore customers and not provide real updates, you even decided to ignore a number of customers who were actively trying to resolve the problems with you -what ever else I missed!!! That user doesn't even factor into the equation, you still can't see that and that right there guys is the main reason you're eating a big old nasty shit sandwich. You want investomers to look at it from your point of view, how about you look at it from theirs for a second. If you honestly do, it should be of little surprise to you that some folks took what was surely perceived as the only legal way to get anything done, YOU left them no choice. Making statements like this makes me believe you've learned nothing from the shit storm you're in. You're full of shit IMO and have no chance of fixing this and coming out of it with a thriving business. |
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A reply of yours, quoted below, was deleted by the starter of a self-moderated topic. There are no rules of self-moderation, so this deletion cannot be appealed. Do not continue posting in this topic if the topic-starter has requested that you leave. You can create a new topic if you are unsatisfied with this one. If the topic-starter is scamming, post about it in Scam Accusations. Quote from: AMT_miners on June 05, 2014, 04:37:24 PM
You are one of the main reasons we are all in this mess. Go back to your corner and stop annoying the hell out of your counsel.
This is funny, I actually thought the main reasons for you being in this mess was your decision to: -use an extremely risky business model to fund the start up -fail to follow through with statements/promises/claims -"abuse" your clients in a public venue -illegally withhold refunds -ignore customers and not provide real updates, you even decided to ignore a number of customers who were actively trying to resolve the problems with you -what ever else I missed!!! That user doesn't even factor into the equation, you still can't see that and that right there guys is the main reason you're eating a big old nasty shit sandwich. You want investomers to look at it from your point of view, how about you look at it from theirs for a second. If you honestly do, it should be of little surprise to you that some folks took what was surely perceived as the only legal way to get anything done, YOU left them no choice. Making statements like this makes me believe you've learned nothing from the shit storm you're in. You're full of shit IMO and have no chance of fixing this and coming out of it with a thriving business. |
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It's always amused me how incredibly bad most of the miner manufacture's are at the business side of things. It's like they all assumed that the incredibly lopsided supply and demand scenario would last forever. These guys wouldn't last 5 seconds in the real world, they have no concept of customer acquisition cost and the value of a good loyal repeat client (hint, repeat clients drive CAC way down!). All these companies appear to have a single fatal flaw from a business PoV, they were all under capitalized. Because of this they had to resort to tactics that were down right illegal and moronic just to try and stay afloat. Not surprisingly it isn't working to well and it isn't likely to start working better any time soon, that's probably why the real world doesn't use that particular business model. The piper is coming and he wants paying from them all, it's really just a matter of when and how much, oh and how many lawyers are getting new swimming pools and BMW's  |
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How much of the $825,000 does AMT have left? Why did you not use this money to refund customers who requested a refund? You know you were massively delayed by flawed manufacturing, why did you not refund customers? Why are you holding customers money hostage to make sure you can finally get your manufacturing corrected?
The only real logical conclusion is they under capitalized the business and as such probably used the lions share of any pre-order money on start up and daily operating costs. Using any "left over" money for refunds likely would have killed the business altogether (read: left them cashless with massive liabilities and no way to pay them..) and left them no new way to generate "profit" which they need to have in order to start making restitution. This is the problem companies run into when they spend the "profit" before they have made any... Now the only option they have is to try and stay in business to make "new" profits to pay back the old profit they spent but didn't actually fucking earn. They're behind the 8 ball in a big way now and are scrambling and grasping at straws. They are bleeding cash like a stuck pig at this point, no new revenue is coming in and liabilities are piling up by the day. It's hard to see how anything less than an infusion of NEW and ACTUAL capital will right the SS Minnow at this point. I really don't know any of the technical product stuff but from a strictly business POV it is hard to see how a company like AMT can turn this around. Honest to goodness companies with real business skills (which AMT doesn't appear to have) fail EVERYDAY. AMT has shown at every opportunity that they are completely incompetent and I believe there is approximately a 0% chance they have the skill and mind set to turn this around. All they are doing is delaying the inevitable and making things worse for themselves. The writing is on the wall and one way or another sooner or later the AMT ship is sunk. If they were smart business men the only thing they would be doing is figuring out where they can get cash (read: selling personal assets) to pay back their initial investomers. Until this is done, using a single nickel on the "new" business model is tantamount to fraud. If they somehow managed to pay back everyone then and only then would it be time for them to invest more of their own fucking money to produce a stock product to sell in the future. That way they are the ones taking the risk and the company can pay them back when and if it ever can and not the fucking customers... |
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IMET is a reputable contract manufacturing and product development company that has been in business for 14 years. Our reputation is utmost important, so we wanted to address the negative allegations presented by AMT and Josh Zipkin.
IMET was contracted to build Printed Circuit Boards (PCBs) for AMT miners in February of 2014. The Printed Circuit Boards (PCBs) were built to print from various design revisions that were supplied by AMT through Bitmine. IMET did supply the parts and any part substitutions/placement changes were approved in advance by Bitmine and/or AMT. IMET does not buy parts from the gray market. Per our ISO-9000 requirements, we only purchase parts from approved vendors.
After thorough inspection including AOI (Automatic Optical Inspection), the PCBs were delivered to AMT. Prior to delivery, IMET did verify that the individual PCBs would hash at approximately 200gh/s. The only discrepancy seen was when there were bad cores in an A1 chip. In this case, the hash rate was lower depending on the number of working cores.
AMT was responsible for the mechanical designs, thermal designs (heatsinks), assembly, final test and QC. The IMET engineering team can confirm that the boards (hash, main, and backplane) worked fine as delivered prior to processing by AMT.
IMET is very competitive in our industry and the prices we charged AMT were fair and reasonable for the work that we did. Some engineering time was gratis to help keep things moving. During our last meeting, Josh/AMT wrote a check for services rendered but the bank account had inadequate funds.
The material that was still left in the shop is being held as collateral until final payment is made. In the meantime, the IMET engineering team used new boards that were never in AMT’s possession to build up working miners. The problem is not in the electronics hardware; however, there are opportunities for the PCBs to be optimized. IMET will give the manufacturing plans to AMT after payment in full for previous and current services rendered.
I was well aware of Joshua Zipkin writing checks he couldn't honor back in March. Sadly, you ain't the only guys. I'm going to try my best to retrieve the posts proving such, but bear in mind that Josh had me delete a many posts on the old thread prior to firing up his self-moderated thread where ALL my posts were deleted. Now, he has reverted to threatening to kill me. Josh Zipkin is a highly unstable individual, and you can take that to the bank... Oops! Apologies. Isn't this site mirrored somewhere, might be able to check there.. |
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