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1621  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: WHY PEOPLE ARE NOT TAKING THEIR PRIVACY SERIOUSLY. on: December 10, 2023, 11:40:55 PM
I did nothing wrong. But I have surrendered my legal privacy to 49 btc.

I should be able to not surrender privacy in this case.

years ago i split my hoard up into different pots of funds for that exact reason
short term play/trade/exit money
mid term hoarding to play the occassional market price wave
long term just hoard

dont blame the CEX that you decided to keep all coin on one UTXO/address
1622  Economy / Economics / Re: I need financial advice for my careless uncle. on: December 10, 2023, 11:26:14 PM
telling an adult to not have a social life wont get you far
older people dont take younger people serious so they would be quick to tell the nephew to buzz off and mind his own business


so the first trick. while he is in the remorse stage of poverty. get him to set up a joint bank account with the wife. where he cant access the account without her permission

then when he gets paid the money goes into that account instead of his personal debit card.
and by joint account i dont mean debit card account. but one that requires going to a physical bank to move funds out of the account or needs the wife to log-in to move funds into his debit card.

then THEY(husband/wife) can set a budget to still socialise but not to excess.. after all, no money = no spending
and because THEY need to set budgets, its not your problem to worry about

but first, they need to put that mechanism in place to push them into budgeting
1623  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: WHY PEOPLE ARE NOT TAKING THEIR PRIVACY SERIOUSLY. on: December 10, 2023, 11:18:35 PM
people just need to get smarter and stop thinking privacy is default..
after all an empty house does not come with curtains or blinds. when you move in you need to get curtains and blinds to stop the neighbours peeking in your windows, yep privacy in your own home is not default when you move in

a few idea's for those talking about "privacy coins" and "anonymity enhanced subnetworks"

heres an idea for you
create a network in secret and write a white paper
dont mention privacy, dont mention cryptocurrency, dont mention virtual asset(VA)

instead describe it as a PPDA "private property digital asset" and file it with the patent office... and bam you have invented a new class of technology which can be defended in court if governments wanted to re classify as a currency, cryptocurrency or Virtual Asset
(NFT are treated differently than cryptocurrencies, so make a PPDA as different to CC as possible in its descriptions)

now part of the white paper would be to not call services that swap fiat for your PPDA as an exchange/Money Service. instead call them retailers that allow the buy.. and auctions that allow the sell of the PPDA

use terms that ensure your privacy coin is not a privacy coin even if it at code level provides that utility for people who use it

the government are themselves putting their 'CBDC distributed ledger' in a different category to 'VA blockchains' even though they are very similar in their technology

be smart. learn what regulators are categorising and think of something outside of that..

its why uber didnt use the name ubercab's  to avoid taxicab regulations
1624  Economy / Economics / Re: strange indicators to know economy is bad on: December 10, 2023, 04:47:04 PM
having a lil think..

hammer & screwdriver index: people preferring to do DIY instead of calling a repairman
band-aid index: for countries without fre national health, prefer to sort injuries themselves instead of visiting a doctor
woolly sweater index: people wear thick clothing at home instead of using the central heating
hand-me-down index: people getting thrifty/charitable with clothing instead of buying new
dish-cloth diaper index: using re-usable washable fabric as diaper/sanitary pads instead of commercial single use products
1625  Economy / Economics / Re: a fun little economics thing to try on: December 10, 2023, 04:37:12 PM
This must be from the countries where minimum wages are settled to the per hour income however there are countries where the minimum wage is even lower. Unfortunately, when we walk through the store they do not differentiate between the 15/hour and 150/hour earners, both pay the same rate for everything. This void is what is disturbing all the time. Many price tags can come from the above-average wagering requirement, meaning they are a bit high for the low or minimum-wage guy.

In my country, it is even worse. You get based on what skills you have. We have the labor categories, blue collar, and white collar categories. Everybody earns a different income. The issue is even the white-collar guys are not earning enough, so just imagine what might be the condition of blue-collar to labor zone earners?

I think this is a very detailed discussion topic. That is why we ended up making long economic books to understand it thoroughly. The OP maths is correct but it doesn't apply equally everywhere.

understand and completely agree on all points. which is why i wanted other people to post their numbers based on their situations IF they were min wage earners

usually i get 90% of interactions from americans on this forum which is why even as a brit i default my economics to "US speak"
1626  Economy / Economics / Re: a fun little economics thing to try on: December 10, 2023, 04:26:58 PM
Nah. As I said even with minimum wage, bills would barely reach 2.5% and that is in extreme cases of an extremely low income and a wasteful household. You see these things are really ultra cheap here. Let me do a quick calculation here with some numbers:
- Minimum wage is like 60 mil Rial per month.
- Electricity is ~600 Rial/kwh which with all the discounts it would be like 200k-300k per 2 months (or free for those who decrease their consumption compared to previous year LOL)
- Gas is 414 rial per cubic meter in cold seasons and 1350 in warm seasons and according to the gas company 90% of all the bills are less than 1000k rials and the bill is every 2 months too.
- Water is 1860 per cubic meter, that's less than 500k bill every two months.
(300k+500k+500k)/2 = 650k Rial per month which is 1.08% of minimum wage Cheesy

The bills I paid last month were 460k gas + 300k water + 160k electric = 920k rial for 2 months or 460k per month which is like 0.1%-0.3% of my monthly salary (even less of my total income). Grin
The gas bill a couple of months ago when it was warmer was about half that.

I excluded phone bill because I have no idea what the average is and what I pay is only data/internet cost.

the percentages/scenario math i used are not my design/suggestion, im from UK living way way more then min wage standards, so even my personal numbers differ from it. and yea its been years since i was on minimum wage so i dont economise the same way as a min wage person would in the UK/US.
the percentages are based on the US financial economics of things like the "golden ratio" 50:30:20
where the 50 is housing and bills(30:20)
then the 30 is the groceries and transport(20:10) and the 20 is luxuries or savings
i did tweak things a lil

anyways i travel alot and see many different cultures and economics. but not yet been to the region that use the rial
but i now have become interested as 1-2% for bills compared to min wage, which seems like micro percentages compared to my bitcoin life, far better then us/uk/euro economics (i also like the regions like thailand, so not sure where i wanna settle down to later in life)

(using google conversion rate)
UK min wage is 95m rial a month
landline phone/internet is MINIMUM 1m-2m rial
electric even used conservatively is 1.5m-3m rial
gas even used conservatively is 1.5m-3m rial
water (not metered but 'estimated') charge 2m rial
cell phone contracts can be 3m rial per person

so 13%+ for a single person but can be more for families(cell phone per person soon adds up)
1627  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Finally Bitcoin Devolpers planning to kill Ordinals and Inscription on: December 10, 2023, 03:53:38 PM
if ordinals had been baked into the protocol by satoshi himself and always had been a part of bitcoin then your argument would be pretty strong.
Ok, so let's say we ban this method of embedding arbitrary data in to the blockchain. Ordinals then move to embedding data in to public keys instead, which takes up more space and so the spam problem gets worse, rather than better. That would be fair game at that point because embedding data in to public keys has been possible since day 1 of the protocol?

ordinals wasnt baked in since satoshis day.. ordinals only became possible later in bitcoin life
multisig wasnt baked in since satoshis day.. multisig only became possible later in bitcoin life


heck a bitcoin block wasnt even able to surpass 0.5mb until 2013 let alone 4mb of junk which was not even possible until 2017+
the ability to add upto 4Gigabyte of junk is not something that was baked in as an ability to utilise even in 2023..
i dare you or larry to even try and make a junk meme video of 4gigabyte and add it into the blockchain
you cant because rules that were baked in prevent it..
however over time the rules have been relaxed to by pass things, no longer even requiring consensus activations when opcodes were set as conditioned with rules. now idiots can use a whole class of opcodes that are unconditioned which in the olden days nodes would not even relay

You're right. I've never touched them, but that hasn't stopped me from wanting to learn about them. The underlying system is a brilliant idea that only one person had ever put forward before. Ordinals have reinvigorated interest & sparked lively debate in Bitcoin in a way that not much could, besides the Bitcoin ETF, which is kind of boring in comparison.

I've put franknbeans on ignore as all his arguments eventually devolve into a personal attack, if not immediately. He's not here to learn anything -- he's here to lecture all about his opinion. The problem is, on a technical level, he's often wrong. And he'll never admit it, which is why its not worth engaging with him.

nutildah doesnt want to learn. he doesnt even understand how they works still. not the code nor the economics. he just loves promoting them .. as he says entertaining his trollisms of discussion

its not a brilliant idea because its not even what it promises to be

as for him admitting to be ignorant by putting people on ignore when they try to show him the technical and economic flaws.. that is proof enough he doesnt care to learn.

When everyone knows what the limits are, people are free to transact.  And yes, some people will inevitably find methods of exploiting or abusing those limits.  But if those limits keep getting tighter, to try and catch out the ones exploiting it, you'll also catch innocent parties who are suddenly outside of a limit they were previously within.

In that case, limiting Taproot script size

remember the "promise" of taproot
'it wil look like a normal tx that only uses one signature length' pfft. promise broke from day one.
1628  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Bitcoin feels like a Western-type Democracy... on: December 10, 2023, 03:48:58 PM
Any thing that becomes powerful will become an interest of the powerful people.

Bitcoin became popular.  So it became an interest of the powerful and Wealthy.  I was hoping Bitcoin would not become what it is today but the more power it gains the less likely it will offer the same freedom it once did.

See Micro Strategy.  Every body is cheering them for purchasing so many Bitcoin.  Currently Micro Strategy owns around 1 percent of the Bitcoin supply.  We cheer them for purchasing Bitcoin but we forget they are a business, Saylor is a businessman and one day this could turn into a catastrophe.  We were supposed to cheer for Decentralization.  Not for the Rich using Bitcoin as a tool to gain further power.

They own 1 percent which is already a LOT.  Imagine how many other institutions and corporations are buying Bitcoin too.  If Bitcoin was meant to offer a refuge from the Rich and some sort of equilibrum between the Rich and the Poor.  Now Bitcoin is only another asset and method of the Wealthy to gain more wealth and for the Poor to become more Poor.

This is unfortunate but I guess we have to accept our fate.  Bitcoin has changed like franky1 said. 

microstrategy has sponsored core devs to aid in the crappy subnetwork LN development. taking core devs away from actually working on bitcoin for bitcoin utility
DCG also sponsored core devs to aid in doing things that make bitcoin more annoying to use just to promote off chain services..

their game plan is to make bitcoin annoying and expensive to transact, so that they can take small % fee's via middlemen services

then we get the affiliate/sig spammer trolls screaming "dont allow more transactions per block, everyone should just pay more fees" all playing into the roadmap where the "solution" is not proper consensus utilised code to enforce rules of clean fit-for-purpose bitcoin use on bitcoin. but "solution: move over to this other network that will fulfil your dreams"
1629  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Technical Support / Re: Vulnerability that allowed Ordinals to exist now has its own CVE code on: December 10, 2023, 03:38:30 PM
they wont do anything because the CVE did not cater to describing all of the subclass of opcodes that allow validation bypasses
If you are talking about OP_SUCCESS that bypasses validation, it is non-standard already so nodes never relayed such transactions from the start.

if you look at the github conversations. there is alot of "whatabout"ism's
"what about using op_true"
basically saying making op_false become conditional or disabled will just push ordinal junkers to just use a different opcode, as the excuse to do nothing at all about the problem
heck even the unconditioned op_success class of codes.
"what about if they pushTX direct to mining pool"
1630  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: The Sanction On Mixers Would Make This Forum Boring on: December 10, 2023, 03:32:14 PM
What do you think?

Make this forum boring? I doubt that, Mixer is not that popular topic

i dont think he is on about the lack of mixer topic discussions... but imagine a world without the trolls who only post garbage just to get their post count up for their sig-campaign earnings. imagine less junk posts

but then again
i expect theymos already has a business plan to clean out the dead wood sig spammers of mixers, so he can then cleanly incorporate some more institutional advertisers to offer next gen trolls sig campaign spam earnings
1631  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Finally Bitcoin Devolpers planning to kill Ordinals and Inscription on: December 10, 2023, 08:45:52 AM
demanding less transactions but higher fee premiums is not the economic dynamics of keeping the network useful and fruitful

How about demanding more transactions with lower fees by increasing blocksize ? Isn't the outcome of a block reward the same ? Who benefits from something like that ? Because the way i see it , current status only favors miners . If onchain transactions go down , this favors users . More transactions in each block would benefit both miners and users . But for sure the only entities that earn more than anybody else with current model are pools . It's basically free money for them .
An argument would be that there is no interest currently to transact on btc so no need to increase blocksize . Global transactions in crypto are hundreds of millions transactions per day . Merchants could use bitcoin instead of visa but as btc works you can't advertise it as an alternative method of payment . Of course , not everyone would be able to run a node , which is against maxis ethics .
By your logic , if blocksize never increases and subsidy is zero , network would still work fine . I'm not saying that it won't work , what i argue is that it won't be secure .

when you learn how cores fee estimator works, then you will see how your notions fail

core doesnt count fees once tx confirmed.. it instead uses the UNCONFIRMED mempool transaction fees and how delayed they are of even getting in a block to estimate the fee new transactions should try to push a tx forward

meaning if the fee was high and pools declined to accept transactions below a certain rate, even if it meant doing part filled blocks/empty blocks... users wont be happy.. the more delayed a tx gets the higher fees go.snow ball effect because users wont transact if costs are high and still not getting in. and if pools are demanding high fee it helps no one

your "if onchain transactions go down, this favours users" doesnt play out if users are still paying huge fees which still sitting in mempool

as for the debunked comparison idiots make about visa.. please do get a new song sheet
only idiots use the visa song as a reason to suggest bitcoin shouldnt scale at all unless its to those extremes.. which isnt even scaling.. its exaggeratingly leaping.. and debunks itself to use leaping song to avoid scaling discussion/options

and you then go extremes of the opposite about not scaling at all, to then say it wont be secure
..and your other illogical fallacies...
you have been trained very (un)well to only assume the two options are do nothing or exaggerate to a huge leaping massive size

..
anyway back to my point
if the only users that can afford huge fee's enough to get accepted into a block are the scammers that overcharge victims on a scam market that 1sat is worth $10k, and need to pay $100 in fee to get the special sat.. then normal bitcoin users will stop transacting.. and all thats left is the scammy crap
(one scammer was willing to pay 83btc in fee just to get coins he hacked moved quickly)
no one will be able to outbid scammers.. and we should not condone the crap that end up penalising/costing all genuine users utility
1632  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Qatar's sovereign wealth fund eyes $500B bitcoin investment on: December 10, 2023, 07:56:19 AM
to quash all speculation
they are not going to throw $500B into bitcoin

the entire fund is $475b and they are divested into many many investments. recently buying into southern china's region of retail

in short NO they are not going to be throwing 100's of billions into bitcoin.. the original story writer used the numbers of entire fund thats divested into thousands of investments. and saying bitcoin has peaked their interest. meaning only small percentages of small percentages.. not the whole lump
1633  Economy / Economics / Re: a fun little economics thing to try on: December 10, 2023, 07:42:57 AM
lucky for you to live with relatives.
I own a house! Bought it years ago with cash and with no loans hence the zero extra costs such as rent or loan payment (only repairs and stuff).

i was at first going to question your 1% bill assumption
It's pretty simple, energy is ultra cheap in my country.

ok so your not part of the "many people talk about their low incomes and their expenses"
i still think if your eating through 15% of groceries.. your electric, gas, water, telephone might of been higher then 1%
but good for you if your combined bills are only 1% high income.

sorry for assuming you were on low income and not having to pay any costs, though this topic was more for the low income earners struggling to find ways to economise and budget enough to invest

i too am on the wealthy side, i was looking for opinions from those in the low income side about how they budget their finances
1634  Economy / Economics / Re: a fun little economics thing to try on: December 10, 2023, 06:40:32 AM
i was at first going to question your 1% bill assumption. but then i seen your housing is 0%
lucky for you to live with relatives.
and yes with that much excess funds, investing a high percentage would work for you.
(if only i was 20 years younger when i started investing)
make the most of it while you can
1635  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Technical Support / Re: Vulnerability that allowed Ordinals to exist now has its own CVE code on: December 10, 2023, 06:25:21 AM
the CVE thing got a little too specific by mentioning just a couple opcodes...
the thing is there a large group of unconditioned opcodes that are treated as valid without checking the content after the opcode.. so core dev github comments are not addressing the issue and instead are just playing 'buzzword whataboutisms' by saying
'but what about if they use [insert buzzword] opcode'

they wont do anything because the CVE did not cater to describing all of the subclass of opcodes that allow validation bypasses

the easy solution is
a. any opcode that does not have any formatting data content requirement (that uses isvalid) disable it
or
b. fee rate that particular transaction using such opcodes as requiring 1000x 'fee estimate' else treat as dust and dont relay/add to block

and yes code can be made to do this. and yes it can be enforced... well if devs decide to be devs and not 'we cant do it' echoers
1636  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Finally Bitcoin Devolpers planning to kill Ordinals and Inscription on: December 10, 2023, 05:42:15 AM
bitcoins white paper was not titled

"put whatever lame data you like that bypasses validity checks as long as you pay higher fee then other people, its allowed"
1637  Economy / Economics / Re: a fun little economics thing to try on: December 10, 2023, 04:41:06 AM
15/h is 120 a day

if you earn 14 a day in your local currency multiply your expenses by 8.5 to equal the sums equivalent in the title post
if you earn 13 a day in your local currency multiply your expenses by 9.25 to equal the sums equivalent in the title post
if you earn 12 a day in your local currency multiply your expenses by 10 to equal the sums equivalent in the title post

That only works for US based employees or those that have a really high paying jobs in countries that don't get paid in USD, 15 USD an hour is a dream come true for so many people here in my country because most of us get paid in minimum 11 USD a day so I don't know how are we going to do that? Even at your lowest, that's already a big dream for many people here. Maybe if this equation can be translated to a local currency for each country, we could be discussing something big because I feel like if we're to follow this, there's a possibility that a little relaxation in finances will be the reward. I still wish to get paid this way though maybe in the near future.

the great thing about economics.. is math
if your getting paid 11 a day. assuming a 8 hour work day. thus 1 hour = 1.375
if you look at YOUR native expenses and multiply your expenses by 10.9 you get topic post equivalent of 15/h
if you look at the numbers in the topic post and / 10.9 you get your native equivalent of 1.375/h

math is great, right

how about i do one better:
             your pay after tax [100%]
            invest[10%]        housing[30%]      
               bills[20%]      transport[10%]
        groceries[20%]        clothing[5% ]
             repairs[2%]         hobbies[1%]
  entertainment[1%]         luxuries[1%]

now you can work out some numbers
1638  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Finally Bitcoin Devolpers planning to kill Ordinals and Inscription on: December 10, 2023, 02:54:09 AM
come on franky. nutildah is a pretty smart person and knows alot about the ordinals and bitcoin ecosystems. but doesn't mean he buys and sells them. so i think you might be making a leap of logic there. but even if he did buy and sell them for profit, that's what they exist for is to make profit. that's why people are involved with them i would imagine. and maybe a few people just like having a picture of a monkey stored on the blockchain so they can tell their friends.  Shocked

nutildah isnt actually as smart as you want to think he is. he is a follower of promoted stuff but misses many factual concepts that can be proven by data and code

also its one thing for the creator first adding the junk for posterity.. but the events after of suckering victims into handing them money for the false claim of pretend passing of ownership, is not legit profit. its scam tricks

ordinals is not just a blight on bitcoin due to excess waste of bytes causing everyone else to pay a premium in some bidding war.... its also selling scam junk that the victims have no real controllable claim over

if certain people want the crap to continue.. then let those wanting to do the crap pay the price. instead of everyone else penalised just to keep the crap going
1639  Economy / Economics / Re: a fun little economics thing to try on: December 10, 2023, 02:29:28 AM
15/h is 120 a day

if you earn 14 a day in your local currency multiply your expenses by 8.5 to equal the sums equivalent in the title post
if you earn 13 a day in your local currency multiply your expenses by 9.25 to equal the sums equivalent in the title post
if you earn 12 a day in your local currency multiply your expenses by 10 to equal the sums equivalent in the title post
1640  Economy / Economics / a fun little economics thing to try on: December 10, 2023, 01:04:22 AM
so i see many people talk about their low incomes and their expenses and how to economise to either support a nice lifestyle or to maximise investments..

and so here is 2 scenarios of people on $15/hour and $20/hour and a basic breakdown of expected expense..
things like putting 15% into pension before tax.
then after tax putting ~10% into savings/personal choice investments
30% into housing. and so on



so lets see people views on how they would tweak the numbers of expenses to their personal preference to still cover essentials but maximise either a nicer lifestyle or more investing

its not a marked exam, its a fun experiment

to make it easy you can copy below to then adjust in your own post

                $15/h         total 1990                 ||                      $20/h       total 2514
                                                                 ||
            invest[$200]        housing[$600]      ||             invest[$250]        housing[$755]            
               bills[$400]      transport[$200]      ||                bills[$505]      transport[$250]
        groceries[$400]        clothing[$90 ]      ||         groceries[$504]        clothing[$125]
           repairs[$40]          hobbies[$20]       ||            repairs[$50]          hobbies[$25]
entertainment[$20]         luxuries[$20]        ||  entertainment[$25]         luxuries[$25]

maybe explain your choices too
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