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I'm exhausted from last night trying to catch the bottom. So please BTC no more action so I can get a good night's sleep.
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So I have a doubt... The FinCen claims Casascius selling the coins makes him an unregistered “money transmitter”.
If Casascius were to sell the coins with just the set of keys, but no BTC in them, would he be completely ok ?
I'm sure the Trezor guys won't be labeled a "money transmitter" right? It's like selling an ipod or whatnot..
This is correct but Casascius has stated that he will never sell empty hologramed coins. The fact is that there are too many unknowing customers out there on ebay, etc. Not everyone realizes you have to check the balance. I have sold many coins and asked them if they wanted to check the balance and have been given a "nope looks great" reply. Too risky for unloaded coins to be sold for full price. Although that's a little naive on the buyer's part, Buyers can always chargeback if you're screwing them if paying by credit card on PayPal. If not credit card, then a dispute will also likely go in their favor. |
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If you buy 100k USD in BTC, and by next April 15 these are worth 1 million USD, will you have to pay ~300k USD to the IRS?
Does it matter whether the IRS considers Bitcoin a "stock" or a "foreign currency"?
This is not legal advice so I'm not held liable if you screw anything up on your taxes. Most people consider BTC capital assets. You only pay taxes if you sell. So if you sell at 1 million USD and buy back at 1 million USD. Then price drops to $500USD/BTC now. You'll be in big trouble because you'll still have to pay taxes on 1 million USD unless you sell again. Thanks, but that seems a question people should worry about: "will the IRS (or your nation's equivalent) consider BTC capital or cash?" Again not legal advice, but IRS has pretty much said "No official classification yet but you still have to pay taxes on it." |
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If you buy 100k USD in BTC, and by next April 15 these are worth 1 million USD, will you have to pay ~300k USD to the IRS?
Does it matter whether the IRS considers Bitcoin a "stock" or a "foreign currency"?
This is not legal advice so I'm not held liable if you screw anything up on your taxes. Most people consider BTC capital assets. You only pay taxes if you sell. So if you sell at 1 million USD and buy back at 1 million USD. Then price drops to $500USD/BTC now. You'll be in big trouble because you'll still have to pay taxes on 1 million USD unless you sell again. |
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Let me know if I have this right for US Tax laws.
Anyone who sold $1000USD/BTC and rebought at $800USD/BTC needs to sell again before end of Dec 31 to recognize Capital losses. If they don't sell before Dec 31, then they'll be forced to pay taxes on $1000 USD/BTC capital gains and will only be able to deduct $3000 capital losses once per year starting next year.
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It is all just luck, remember. Nobody can predict the future.  Right on cue!!!!! *clap* *clap* |
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Where's Rico? (Oops is it Risto?) It would be hilarious if he popped in just now.
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Mtgox Resistance up to 550 already!!! These guys want to sell bad (or manipulation)
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Wow... 2300 BTC support @ 550 destroyed just like that!  |
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Lots of resistance preventing a new 24-Hour Low.  |
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Looks to me new lows are coming tonight.
Discuss.
i hope your right. if not tonight maybe tomorrow or in a few days, you gata love the bear market! it doesn't last forever. Haha you seem to like it even more than me. Are you all in fiat? I'm still heavily in coins just that I let about 20% go at 900. Thought it was fairly obvious technically that this was coming. I know it's easy to say it in retrospect but if you've spent a lot of time looking at charts you kind of get a feel for these things. I have to say though swing trading bitcoins like this is way harder for me compared to stocks or futures. Much harder selling some coins when you have a good sense of what they are really worth. i'm never all fiat, i'm very bullish. always have been. but i'm also kinda poor so.... the market recently ran me over ( started selling at 400, little by little, got an avg price of about 600-750 a coin i guess. ) and i took some profits off the table, now i'm looking to invest 10K, bought in 1K so far, looking forward to cheap coins! So if you weren't poor, what % BTC would you be? Still 90% fiat? |
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Was this clause there 2 weeks ago?
"We don't accept international wire transfers from US Citizens or from US Banks
All transfers from US Citizens or US Bank will be refused by bank"
I just noticed this. But after I sent my money 2 weeks ago. Well it still hasn't come back to my account.
Failed international wire transfers can indeed take weeks to "come back". Its best to contact the bank you sent from and they will investigate. It hurries the process along. I called the bank. But the status showed Transfer Complete. Just what does that mean if BTC-E didn't get it. If the bank says the wire reached the recipient then 99% sure that is what happened. Draw your own conclusions after that. I did, but BTC-E customer service is a joke. I hope I get my money back. |
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Was that huge sell off before the Winklevoss AMA or after? haha
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Was this clause there 2 weeks ago?
"We don't accept international wire transfers from US Citizens or from US Banks
All transfers from US Citizens or US Bank will be refused by bank"
I just noticed this. But after I sent my money 2 weeks ago. Well it still hasn't come back to my account.
Failed international wire transfers can indeed take weeks to "come back". Its best to contact the bank you sent from and they will investigate. It hurries the process along. I called the bank. But the status showed Transfer Complete. Just what does that mean if BTC-E didn't get it. |
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Hilariously, what we think of as digital signatures (cryptographic) are pretty much just an afterthought to most of those laws. Typically, those laws are about fax machines, and web buttons labelled "I agree" and other such nonsense. Bullshit. If you made a website with the following elements: "I own all your shit now" and a button stating "I agree" A visitor clicking said button would not transfer ownership. Similarly a "these are Risto's coins" message is not a contract and isn't binding. The "I agree" thing is called in the legal community Clickwrap. And it depends on what you're agreeing to as to whether a court will enforce it. Courts normally don't like it. A digital signature is just as valid for most things, such as entering into a contract, as a signature signed on paper with a pen. Remember, most contracts aren't even required to be in writing, much less have a signature. But no. You can't "trick" someone into signing away rights. That would be fraud. I believe one day we will see a court case where someone wrote from their BTC address on a digital sig "They would send BTC after receiving 10 LTC." but not sending the BTC afterwards. And all the evidence will be in the blockchain. It will be interesting how that case will go. |
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Was this clause there 2 weeks ago?
"We don't accept international wire transfers from US Citizens or from US Banks
All transfers from US Citizens or US Bank will be refused by bank"
I just noticed this. But after I sent my money 2 weeks ago. Well it still hasn't come back to my account.
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Lol. This is the stupidest fucking thread derail in the history of bitcointalk.
The price hasn't been going anywhere the last 24 hours other than bouncing between 880-1000. We need something to fill the time. |
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china will go thru 5500 soon, they already punctured it and now they are oversold
Having seen my magic, perhaps you can now publicly acknowledge that I have 10,000 bitcoins, apologize, stfu and gtfo. OK? If you want to prove that just sign a message with an address holding 10k and put that signed message in your signature - no need for nobody to "acknowledge", that would be a hard cold proof. That's pure non spoofable crypto, heart and soul of Bitcoin. That's not hard cold proof. It's susceptible to Man in the Middle attack. Care to elaborate that? How could rpietila perform "a man in the middle attack" and make bitcointalk.org users to believe he signed a message with an address holding 10k BTC if he is not in control of an address with such an amount? Because there is nothing linking the Bitcoin address to his forum account. Hypothetically speaking, he could just ask a friend who has access to 10K BTC to sign a message and just post it. The difference is there is the possibility he can get 10K BTC account to sign a message, but he may not necessary control it. But that's no man in the middle attack, in that case Risto would just be "borrowing" the coins for a specific purpose - signing the message, which is a proof he can have access (at least for that very purpose of signing the message) to 10k coins. In any case, only a retard would accept to use 10k of his own coins to sign a message like "this coins belong to Risto Pietila", in practical terms Risto's "friend" would be handing to Risto the control of those bitcoins. That's like signing a contract, explain to a judge that "it was just a favor". No. The owner of those coins could sign the message for him. Risto would never need to control them. Virtualfaqs is right. Finally: If I have to prove on a forum that I own a $10M mansion, how about uploading a valid and verifiable contract of ownership of such mansion in my name? Wouldn't you consider that a proof of ownership? Justin Bieber could be my friend and he could have signed the contract as a favour, without ever handing to me the keys. But that's beyond retarded and plainly ridiculous. As retarded, ridiculous and unlikely as expecting someone to cryptographically sign a message such as "This 10k BTC belong to Risto Pietila" with an address holding 10k BTC that do NOT belong to Risto. Probably you do not fully understand the strong implications of such a message - any cryptographically signed message is potentially binding, and that's why the QT client warns you about signing only messages to which content you fully agree. If Risto has such "friends" that sign those messages for him I congratulate and envy him. Uh, no, that's not the meatspace equivalent. There's no practical significance to signing someone else's message with your address. The person with the private key maintains full and absolute control. Said owner could simply transfer those coins after a suitable amount of time passed to satisfy everyone. The meatspace equivalent is telling Risto's buddies that he owns your house. We will have to agree to disagree: i) For you cryptographically signed messages have no significance, ii) for me they have a very strong significance. You do not "own" the coins; the private keys "own" the coins. Using the private key of an addy holding 10k BTC of your coins to sign a message stating than the owner is an individual other than you has a very strong significance for me and I wouldn't do it. As a start, I would be worried about that individual claiming in the future that that priv keys were stolen from him. Sure no judge would understand nothing about this (yet), so you might be right about the lack of "practical" significances as there are no legal precedents on that sense - but I bet there will be a lot of practical significances in the futures. I believe we will see a lot of smart properties/contracts implemented on the blockchain and a lot of legally binding agreements based on message-signing with addresses privkeys. In any case: I don't think rpietila has 10k BTC nor the access to someone with 10k BTC willing to sign on his behalf the following message: "these 10k BTC belong to Risto Pietila"Yes, it will be interesting to see how a court case deals with verified sigs. But they'd also have to link verified sigs to a person's identity. That may not be so easy either as multiple people could have access, hacks, and other reasons. I'd change it this: "these 10k BTC belong to Risto Pietila aka bitcointalk.org username: rpietila" This is so people like me know there's a probable link to his forum account. |
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china will go thru 5500 soon, they already punctured it and now they are oversold
Having seen my magic, perhaps you can now publicly acknowledge that I have 10,000 bitcoins, apologize, stfu and gtfo. OK? If you want to prove that just sign a message with an address holding 10k and put that signed message in your signature - no need for nobody to "acknowledge", that would be a hard cold proof. That's pure non spoofable crypto, heart and soul of Bitcoin. That's not hard cold proof. It's susceptible to Man in the Middle attack. Care to elaborate that? How could rpietila perform "a man in the middle attack" and make bitcointalk.org users to believe he signed a message with an address holding 10k BTC if he is not in control of an address with such an amount? Because there is nothing linking the Bitcoin address to his forum account. Hypothetically speaking, he could just ask a friend who has access to 10K BTC to sign a message and just post it. The difference is there is the possibility he can get 10K BTC account to sign a message, but he may not necessary control it. |
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china will go thru 5500 soon, they already punctured it and now they are oversold
Having seen my magic, perhaps you can now publicly acknowledge that I have 10,000 bitcoins, apologize, stfu and gtfo. OK? If you want to prove that just sign a message with an address holding 10k and put that signed message in your signature - no need for nobody to "acknowledge", that would be a hard cold proof. That's pure non spoofable crypto, heart and soul of Bitcoin. That's not hard cold proof. It's susceptible to Man in the Middle attack. |
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