If the cost to secure the network tends to zero, then the cost to attack the network tends to zero is well.
The is the essence of the "nothing-at-stake" problem with PoS that, despite claims to the contrary, remains unsolved (and IMO very likely unsolvable).
In PoS every currency unit is a small mining rig, and they are all created at Genesis block and it costs nothing. You don't have to make new regular capital investments into hardware, at least not significant ones, as for PoS any old computer will do that can run a wallet and the currency units inside the wallet do the mining. So the cost of securing the network is minimal, not zero, but perhaps 1-2% of the cost of the PoW network. Cost of the attack of the PoS network is larger than cost of the attack on PoW network, as it's easier to buy hardware than to buy 51% currency units in existance in a PoS system, as that would drive the price billions and billions high. No one has proven that it is possible to solve the "nothing-at-stake" problem. In fact it is becoming clear that any PoX-type system can be attacked if the attacker holds 51% of the critical resource X (X = W for PoW and X = S for PoS). It is easy to calculate the cost of an attack on PoW (it is the cost to acquire 51% of the hash power). But what is the cost to attack a PoS system? Do you understand the "nothing-at-stake" problem (aka the "history re-write" problem)? So why is this not already happening? If you know how to kill it why don't you do so? Honest questions.. |
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Not sure I understand the question mate!  Don't worry about it... it had something to do with klee == Nxt Initial Stakeholder!  Good luck vibes lol If this goes well I bet they will invite me to participate in every coin IPO  |
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Congrats!
Is the Nothing at Stake attack relevant for Simcoin? If yes, how do you plan to solve it?
Thanks.
Hi klee... always a pleasure to read your posts as you have a very grounded perspective/approach to all things crypto... do you have any comments on the following???  Exo, Come from beyond! You hit the Bull's Eye pointing to Nxt in relation to eXo... but you have the wrong Nxt Initial Stakeholder in mind...  Not sure I understand the question mate! |
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All current PoW coins have to prove they can't become centralised (highly unlikely) and PoS ones that they are secure...
That said, be careful with your money people!
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Congrats!
Is the Nothing at Stake attack relevant for Simcoin? If yes, how do you plan to solve it?
Thanks.
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rpietila, I am very surprised that you are not invested in NXT. Between the java platform, proof of stake done correctly and decentralized exchange it is definitely a value adding block chain.
The bigger the idle stake, the bigger your interest in keeping the system working and you can act upon this by simply holding on to your stake. With bitcoin, miners for example have a big say on the state of the system even if they hold no btc. In NXT, on the other hand, the only entities with a significant say in the state of the system are the ones holding actual stakes in the system.
My problem with NXT is that it was IPOed, which I think is not a way to create a coin, because there are no economic ways to distribute it. Due to that issue, I haven't cared to even look what it is doing, since I don't believe it can fly based on that alone. It will never be 3rd on coinmarketcap for sure! That something is not only questionable, but also overvalued, does not make it any more interesting as an investment for me  Speaking of Bitcoin? I am confused sorry  |
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rpietila, I am very surprised that you are not invested in NXT. Between the java platform, proof of stake done correctly and decentralized exchange it is definitely a value adding block chain.
The bigger the idle stake, the bigger your interest in keeping the system working and you can act upon this by simply holding on to your stake. With bitcoin, miners for example have a big say on the state of the system even if they hold no btc. In NXT, on the other hand, the only entities with a significant say in the state of the system are the ones holding actual stakes in the system.
My problem with NXT is that it was IPOed, which I think is not a way to create a coin, because there are no economic ways to distribute it. Due to that issue, I haven't cared to even look what it is doing, since I don't believe it can fly based on that alone. It will never be 3rd on coinmarketcap for sure! |
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So... We can say - Good bye market floor of NEM tokens-price went up!
Those,who didn't buy a little of NEM tokens-THIS IS YOUR LAST CHANCE TO BUY TICKET TO THE MOON WITH NEM!!!
HURRY!
Dead cat bounce! |
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Why I have the impression that people here lately basically wanna buy NEM?? |
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Sounds like he want to pick DaT's brain.
I believe they believe they have a solution however based on what is publicly available I don't believe they are correct.  Still I don't see much sense in communicating privately. I rarely sign NDAs and I can't remember ever signing one when I wasn't being compensated. Even with compensation I doubt I would be willing to sign one as I would find it very frustrating if the code confirms my suspicious and then I am unable to use that code to support an argument. Eventually the code will be open sources and we can debate it in the open. At this point I can't definitively say the NXT team and their unreleased code hasn't solve the nothing at stake problem. My argument is more than it is dubious to claim something is solved based on secret code. The public can't independently verify that claim, nor can they look to skeptics for a counterargument. I believe in Bitcoin but I do read articles written by skeptics but they are an outside viewpoint and sometimes that is useful. Where did you see the NDA demand? |
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the raise has stopped, i think the op is right, we are heading back to $300
I can confirm. Buy orders between 240-320 are ready. Why so high? Better to buy @140, don't be a bull! |
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Good luck then - I have no issues with LTC, PPC, NMC or any alt.
I don't mind if BTC will be the only one someday too nor if another one will take it's place.
I am here to use these coins to make more USD - some of these coins have their uses and I will use them (Ripple is fast, NXT has the Asset Exchange, an anonymous coin is always useful etc.)
Still haven't seen the coin that I will BELIEVE in it.
But I dare to say that I am more open minded for exactly the reasons I mentioned and don't have illusions about any coin.
Easy come easy go for all of them...
I no longer hold any altcoin. I sold all my LTC and PPC (not that much) on their peak 5/6 months ago. (and the little NMC I had way before that). To put it another way - 'Nothing is true, everything is permitted', Hassan i Sabbah |
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Good luck then - I have no issues with LTC, PPC, NMC or any alt.
I don't mind if BTC will be the only one someday too nor if another one will take it's place.
I am here to use these coins to make more USD - some of these coins have their uses and I will use them (Ripple is fast, NXT has the Asset Exchange, an anonymous coin is always useful etc.)
Still haven't seen the coin that I will BELIEVE in it.
But I dare to say that I am more open minded for exactly the reasons I mentioned and don't have illusions about any coin.
Easy come easy go for all of them...
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Just like the others said: sell.
A few weeks back, I bought some cheap blackcoin at 3000 satoshis. At 90000 satoshis, I refused to sell. Look where it is now. Don't let it happen to you.
Can anyone show me one shitcoin that ever recovered from it's initial pump n dump? Lucky you only said one, I can't think of any others: Dogecoin. there's always litecoin!! how about peercoin and namecoin? He said shitcoins. LTC, PPC and NMC are not. LMFAO If you think those are shitcoins all altcoins are shitcoin. Those are the only 3 I don't consider shitcoins. Where do you draw the line? Created for a specific purpose which at least has the possibility of being useful. And how are LTC & PPC useful? And why not choose an enhanced clone of them? LTC Scrypt PPC PoS No clones because of first mover advantage. PPC <> PoS Scrypt with ASICS, right... Peercoin, has proof of Stake. ASICs don't harm Scrypt mining, in fact they make it more secure just as for Bitcoin. Litecoin is Bitcoins failsafe. You do understand that your arguments are very 2012 era? |
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Just like the others said: sell.
A few weeks back, I bought some cheap blackcoin at 3000 satoshis. At 90000 satoshis, I refused to sell. Look where it is now. Don't let it happen to you.
Can anyone show me one shitcoin that ever recovered from it's initial pump n dump? Lucky you only said one, I can't think of any others: Dogecoin. there's always litecoin!! how about peercoin and namecoin? He said shitcoins. LTC, PPC and NMC are not. LMFAO If you think those are shitcoins all altcoins are shitcoin. Those are the only 3 I don't consider shitcoins. Where do you draw the line? Created for a specific purpose which at least has the possibility of being useful. And how are LTC & PPC useful? And why not choose an enhanced clone of them? LTC Scrypt PPC PoS No clones because of first mover advantage. PPC <> PoS Scrypt with ASICS, right... |
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Just like the others said: sell.
A few weeks back, I bought some cheap blackcoin at 3000 satoshis. At 90000 satoshis, I refused to sell. Look where it is now. Don't let it happen to you.
Can anyone show me one shitcoin that ever recovered from it's initial pump n dump? Lucky you only said one, I can't think of any others: Dogecoin. there's always litecoin!! how about peercoin and namecoin? He said shitcoins. LTC, PPC and NMC are not. LMFAO If you think those are shitcoins all altcoins are shitcoin. Those are the only 3 I don't consider shitcoins. Where do you draw the line? Created for a specific purpose which at least has the possibility of being useful. And how are LTC & PPC useful? And why not choose an enhanced clone of them? |
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Just like the others said: sell.
A few weeks back, I bought some cheap blackcoin at 3000 satoshis. At 90000 satoshis, I refused to sell. Look where it is now. Don't let it happen to you.
Can anyone show me one shitcoin that ever recovered from it's initial pump n dump? Lucky you only said one, I can't think of any others: Dogecoin. there's always litecoin!! how about peercoin and namecoin? He said shitcoins. LTC, PPC and NMC are not. LMFAO If you think those are shitcoins all altcoins are shitcoin. Those are the only 3 I don't consider shitcoins. Where do you draw the line? |
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People act like this one feature of a truly anonymous coin is going to somehow catapult it to a multi-hundred million valuation, when they forget that this so called "feature" can be replicated over and over by other new alt-coins.
Forget new altcoins: Bitcoin will integrate w/e is found to be valuable. More easily said than done (from a software POV - not even to mention politics)... |
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Just like the others said: sell.
A few weeks back, I bought some cheap blackcoin at 3000 satoshis. At 90000 satoshis, I refused to sell. Look where it is now. Don't let it happen to you.
Can anyone show me one shitcoin that ever recovered from it's initial pump n dump? Lucky you only said one, I can't think of any others: Dogecoin. there's always litecoin!! how about peercoin and namecoin? He said shitcoins. LTC, PPC and NMC are not. LMFAO |
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