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What's the difference between a dark wallet and a regular booooolberry wallet? Color scheme?
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Some major dumps on bittrex today:  Looks like someone was in a hurry to get rid of ~85k aeon. Edit: someone could come fill all my buy orders on Cryptopia and arb them over to Bittrex for a quick 0.002 BTC or so  |
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lol, google translate does a really poor job on that page, but maybe japanese bar maids are the future of skeincoin... |
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Firstly, for someone who has stated repeatedly that you have very little QORA and don't care one way or the other, why is it that you keep on posting (more and more text and now with pictures) about this?
Secondly, why don't you explain to us all why Microsoft would offer a free service that would have no possible revenue potential to themselves?
Sorry, I guess I just can't help myself when I see misinformation and conspiracy theories being bandied about like they were chiseled on stone tablets by Moses himself. Also, why are you bringing up the fact again that I have very little Qora again (for the record I have ~4M Qora) when you state yourself that you have no Qora (despite being paid 50 or 100M Qora to work on AT)? As for the second question: no possible revenue potential to themselves? You think Azure instances are free? They want people to put templates up so more people will want to and be able to quickly spin up instances to provide backend servers for their services. More people running instances = more money for Microsoft. You also didn't answer my questions: Can someone explain what exactly they're afraid of with regards to Qora getting on Azure's BaaS template repo? Is the fear really that Microsoft will somehow gain control over the copyrights or other intellectual property? Just that nodes will become centralized on Azure? |
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Can someone explain what exactly they're afraid of with regards to Qora getting on Azure's BaaS template repo? Is the fear really that Microsoft will somehow gain control over the copyrights or other intellectual property? Just that nodes will become centralized on Azure? Here is the list of templates available: https://github.com/Azure/azure-quickstart-templatesYou'll see among them "ethereum-cpp-on-ubuntu", "bitshares-ubuntu-vm", and "monero-on-ubuntu". It's one thing to think, "OK, ETH, BTS, and XMR probably just overlooked something in the contributor license agreement and now they're gonna get pwned by M$." However, here's a few more templates on the list: "ubuntu-desktop-gnome", "wordpress-mysql-replication", and "mongodb-nodejs-high-availability". Do you really think Ubuntu and Gnome, or Wordpress and Mysql, or Mongodb and Nodejs are going to push their software onto something that will forfeit their intellectual property rights to Microsoft? No, this is ridiculous. The only thing that Microsoft claims any dominion over is the install script, and that's because you're pushing it to their Github repo. There's been talk of NEM paying some extra fee so they didn't have to sign the agreement; they mention it in this blog post: https://forum.nem.io/t/status-on-the-azure-project/2017Having given it due consideration and thoughts, we have decided that NEM should be independent. Instead, we are proposing to still put it on Azure as a docker but we pay for it. By paying for it, we are assuming to be a customer of MS instead. However, afaict they don't pay any extra fee and they aren't actually on the BaaS template list. They've forked the template list to their own github repo ( https://github.com/NewEconomyMovement/azure-quickstart-templates ), but they aren't even listed on that one. They link to a quasi-news article in their blog post that is nothing but vague ramblings about how Microsoft is trying to "kneecap" the blockchain industry, but read the comments on their blog post, people are telling them the same thing I've been posting here for the last day or two, for instance: Isn't this an overreaction due to a misinterpretation ? My understanding is that the agreement covers the template contributed, not nem software itself.
and I don't think you understand the agreement. Anybody can go into github and submit your project to Microsoft, but the only thing that they're giving away is the code it's actually pushed to the MS repository. Not your software. There's also comments going along with the conspiracy circle-jerk, about how this is going to turn over NEM into the diabolical hands of Microsoft. This is insane. Just remember, "Anybody can go into github and submit your project to Microsoft, but the only thing that they're giving away is the code it's actually pushed to the MS repository. Not your software."  |
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Agreement is wholly irrelevant. Every Qora developer, every person on this thread, and every person who owns a single Qora could all agree that Qora should not be on Azure, and it wouldn't matter - anyone with a Github account and enough knowledge to get Qora running on a Linux machine can make the pull request to Azure's Github account with an install script and a readme, sign the agreement themselves, and then Qora will be on Azure.
So please do that and stop posting here (for someone who supposedly doesn't have hardly any QORA and doesn't care your continued posting makes you look very much like a liar). I don't think that this community really needs members such as yourself. I certainly own more Qora than you, since you admit to having zero. If you think I'm off topic or something there's a report button, or this is a self-moderated thread, so you ping the person who started it and ask them to delete my posts. I don't think I care whether or not you think this community needs members such as myself. |
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I don't know what is the best for Qora...
But I know that we should find an agreement what is for all acceptable! Discussion is good, but if the discussion get out of control (if people are no more friendly) then this is bad for all of us!!!!
I have seen that @CIYAM have done a very good job for Qora (so I mean his opinion is very important for our community) and I don't love all big players (like microsoft) because as larger somebody is as more he want to make all rules for all things - therefor I would stay away from Azure...
On the other hand @jwinterm has arguments and he is trying to give us HIS opinion. Maybe he is right to play with the big people as much as necessary... But the problem is nobody knows what the the future will bring - it can be that we are today unable to see, what Azure or microsoft can do to our Qora!
Please to all, can we think a little bit longer? Can we watch what is happening to the other coins in azure and then maybe in some month we can speak again about joining or not!?
Agreement is wholly irrelevant. Every Qora developer, every person on this thread, and every person who owns a single Qora could all agree that Qora should not be on Azure, and it wouldn't matter - anyone with a Github account and enough knowledge to get Qora running on a Linux machine can make the pull request to Azure's Github account with an install script and a readme, sign the agreement themselves, and then Qora will be on Azure. |
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first time i put password mon my myr wallet but i notice something not right there is no look & unlock wallet option or i did not see it you can only unlock wallet when send coins but after it s send wallet stays open  so what the point to crypt if it s stay open You can lock and unlock the wallet from the console in the help/debug menu I think, or unlock it for like a few minutes. |
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I'll say it again, I don't care if Qora gets on Azure, I don't think it matters much either way, but the idea that if it does go up on Azure that Microsoft is going to somehow own or exercise control over future development of Qora is just unsupported by reality.
And I'll say this just once (as I don't need to repeat myself unlike you). Why would MS bother to enforce you to make an agreement that just gives them ownership of a README file and an installation script? And how do you think MS is going to profit from this? (or do you think they are offering free cloud services from the good of their heart) And again (this part I will repeat) you say you have virtually no Qora and you don't care - but here you are posting again in support of Azure - why? I'm not in support of MS or Azure, just supporting facts, logic, and reality. MS bother's to enforce an agreement that gives them ownership of a readme and installation script because you are storing those files on their github repo, so I'm guessing if the installation script did something malicious or unintended, that would give them complete freedom to modify or delete the script. |
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You're willfully ignoring the fact that the only code you submit to them, and thus the only code that is covered by the two page license agreement, is modifying a json template and adding a readme. I added the template and a bitshares example above.
Again - just because Bitshares does something doesn't mean that it is the right thing to do. I don't understand how you don't understand this, but I'll try one last time. Let's take the Bitshares Azure repo for example: https://github.com/Azure/azure-quickstart-templates/tree/master/bitshares-ubuntu-vmThe only code that the Larimers or someone acting on their behalf submitted was a modified json template file, a readme, and a build_bitshares.sh script, which installs a bunch of dependencies, clones the Bitshares repo, and builds Bitshares from source. They never submitted any actual Bitshares code to get on Azure, it's just a script that clones their repo and builds it from source. The only "code" which the license agreement signatory is giving to Microsoft is the build script. I'm not sure how you can't see that by looking at a short two-page license agreement and an actual example repo. (Besides the fact that the Larimers run their blockchain like a corporation and they probably did run the whole process by a lawyer or a few.) I'll say it again, I don't care if Qora gets on Azure, I don't think it matters much either way, but the idea that if it does go up on Azure that Microsoft is going to somehow own or exercise control over future development of Qora is just unsupported by reality. |
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I think you should watch the documentary about what Microsoft did to Netscape before you post anything else (maybe that was before you were born?).
Microsoft have always been anti-open source and have always used copyright and patents as their main "weapon" of choice (as do other such corporations).
To call that "insane ramblings" just shows your incredible amount of ignorance and/or naivety.
You're willfully ignoring the fact that the only code you submit to them, and thus the only code that is covered by the two page license agreement, is modifying a json template and adding a readme. I added the template and a bitshares example above. |
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Please feel free to continue with your insane ramblings at this time...
If Qora was not rescued by @Vrontis and the CIYAM Developers we wouldn't even be having this discussion (the coin would have already died). So if you want to start calling me names then don't be surprised if I simply decide to no longer care about the project (insulting the people that made you money is not generally considered a wise move). As soon as the public realise that the AT support has gone then Qora will die - so better do your pump and dump quickly. If you didn't realise it I own *zero* QORA and so I simply would not be affected if its value went to zero. I didn't call you names. I only added the insane ramblings bit because you were subtly accusing me of working for Microsoft, which is, frankly, insane. I don't care what you've done for Qora, I don't care if you continue, and I also don't hold very much Qora, it just bugs me to see people continually regurgitating outlandish theories in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary. Edit: Here's the template you fill out and submit to them: https://github.com/Azure/azure-blockchain-projects/tree/master/baas-templateThis is all the code that you send, plus a readme file. Here's the bitshares repo: https://github.com/Azure/azure-quickstart-templates/tree/master/bitshares-ubuntu-vmI'm sure Dan and Stan were happy to sign away all their rights to bitshares, right? |
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There is a legal document that talks about IP rights is there not (a license)?
Yet you don't seem to want any lawyer to look at it to determine if there could be any problem (that is rather suspicious in my mind). Instead you'd rather just go ahead and sign the agreement because you read some non-lawyer on IRC say "it'll be fine".
Microsoft are not a charity so why do you think they are doing this?
If you worked for Netscape then I think you'd have a very different opinion about Microsoft (and for that shit alone I would never, ever co-operate with such a despicable company).
Decentralisation is not helped at all by such cloud services as they can be shut down (every single node) with a single phone call.
This is about control and keeping it out of the hands of greedy corporations.
I posted the document that the submitter has to sign ( http://windowsazure.github.io/docs/Contribution%20License%20Agreement.pdf ). It's only two pages. Here are some relevant excerpts: 1. Definitions.
“Code” means the computer software code, whether in human-readable or machine-executable form, that is delivered by You to Microsoft under this Agreement.
...
4. Licenses.
a. Copyright License. You grant Microsoft, and those who receive the Code directly or indirectly from Microsoft, a perpetual, worldwide, non-exclusive, royalty-free, irrevocable license in the Submission to reproduce, prepare derivative works of, publicly display, publicly perform, and distribute the Submission and such derivative works, and to sublicense any or all of the foregoing rights to third parties.
b. Patent License. You grant Microsoft, and those who receive the Code directly or indirectly from Microsoft, a perpetual, worldwide, non-exclusive, royalty-free, irrevocable license under your patent claims that directly read on the Code to make, have made, use, offer to sell, sell and import or otherwise dispose of the Code. That sounds scary, I guess, but as I also wrote several times (after speaking with people who have gone through this process), you don't submit any code to them that is in the actual github repo (even though there is nothing they could do to change the MIT license, but this is beside the point); all you submit is an install script that calls wget or git clone. That is the the code "that is delivered by You to Microsoft under this Agreement", you don't submit the entire repo, just an install script, so the only code Microsoft is saying they have copyright and patent licensing over is the install script. Please feel free to continue with your insane ramblings at this time... |
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I'm not a big fan of Microsoft, and I don't care one way or another whether Qora gets added to the Azure BaaS system, but can you guys with the crazy conspiracy theories provide a little bit of evidence as to what the fuck you're actually concerned about?
I'm concerned Azure is a tactic of MS to centralize the diverse crypto infrastructure we have now into a mega server farm platform they control, similar to what large shopping Malls and giant retailers have done to independent store owners. I see people like Blythe Masters and the big banks trying to do the same basic thing to the whole 'blockchain' concept itself - they want to control things, own things, things that should be open, because openness threatens their monopoly power & profits. They don't care about anything but profits, but what we have with decentralization can make a big difference in the world. These are the type of people who want to patent everything they can get their hands on, so they can 'own' basic knowledge and make $$. I hate that! Look, I'm not trying to troll the thread, and as I said before I don't care if Qora is added or not, but you didn't provide any evidence that MS will have or want any control over Qora, not even a little bit. Just more speculation, that in my mind sounds like some tinfoil hat type of speculation. People already run nodes on Azure, Amazon, Google, etc. The only thing this does is add an install script so you can start up an instance with Qora already installed and syncing the blockchain immediately. |
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Why is Bitcoin C++? Btcd written in Go isn't Bitcoin? Bitcoinj in Java not Bitcoin either? Bitcoin is a protocol that can be implemented in any language.
You are showing your ignorance now - this is not true as only the libconsensus code can be used to mine Bitcoin (without risk of forking) and that code only exists in C++. Other implementations can be used for wallets and for blockchain explorers, etc. but not for mining Bitcoin (so such other implementations are *not Bitcoin* in any true sense). It is becoming very clear that you have an agenda if you keep on insisting that Bitcoin wallet software is the same thing as Bitcoin itself. Yea, this seems extremely relevant, since I'm sure there's going to be lots of people setting up nodes to mine on Azure... |
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What part of "Run A Full Bitcoin Node in the Cloud" isn't Bitcoin? It's not Bitcoin-Qt/Core, but it's certainly Bitcoin. It's strange being called a troll for bringing facts to the discussion rather than wild conspiracy theories.
It is not Bitcoin software (which is written in C++) it is node.js software and if you don't know the difference then that just shows the sort of problem that we have here. That MS is against open source software is no conspiracy theory. Why is Bitcoin C++? Btcd written in Go isn't Bitcoin? Bitcoinj in Java not Bitcoin either? Bitcoin is a protocol that can be implemented in any language. Is Qora not real cryptocurrency because it's implemented in Java? Bitcore is a full node that syncs the entire blockchain: Prerequisites
Node.js v0.12
~100GB of disk storage
~4GB of RAM Saying that it's not Bitcoin is ridiculous. |
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That is not Bitcoin - that is BitPay's Bitcore (please check the content of your link before typing next time unless it is your intention to mislead of course). It's strange that suddenly this topic is starting to become "trollish" with a lot of MS supporters now appearing. I do hope that the original dev is noticing this and what is happening to Qora. What part of "Run A Full Bitcoin Node in the Cloud" isn't Bitcoin? It's not Bitcoin-Qt/Core, but it's certainly Bitcoin. It's strange being called a troll for bringing facts to the discussion rather than wild conspiracy theories. |
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For one, I haven't made up my mind yet since I have lots of time to still reflect upon this issue which from current discussion prove to be quite important. I would like an expert law interpreter (specifically in this particular field) to shed more light on what the interpretation of terms concretely would most likely boil down to and then I can make a much better informed decision as to yah or nah.
Exactly what I want - but unfortunately we have a community that seemingly can't even raise enough funds for that so they rely upon stuff posted in IRC as their proof that Microsoft (who are well known to be against open source) are not going to be any threat. You do notice that Bitcoin is not on Azure do you not? Anyway - as stated previously if Qora goes down this path then CIYAM and Qora will be parting ways. Bitcoin is on Azure, fyi: https://blog.bitpay.com/bitcore-for-microsoft-azure/ |
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@jwinterm It's a concern about IP ownership if you missed the previous posts. There is also no evidence to the contrary.
Look on the previous page or two of this thread. There's no evidence that Microsoft is trying to acquire IP ownership and plenty of evidence to the contrary. In fact, I posted the actual contributor license agreement if you'd care to take a look at the actual agreement rather than just listen to random internet people spew conspiracy theories. |
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As I mentioned in my post, we will be able to reach major corporations, banks, and other institutional players by getting on Azure. Also, by getting on Azure, we will have a lot more chance to get picked up by major news outlets like CNBC and get the press time and recognition we deserve. Having said that, I recognize this is a decision that must be made by the entire community because this move will affect the value of all your investment. Therefore, I'd like to take this opportunity and urge everyone to withdraw your Qora from the exchanges and participate in the vote. You can participate in the poll by casting your vote via the decentralized voting system in Qora client (Voting tab), and you can monitor the progress of the poll here: http://qora.co.in:9090/index/blockexplorer.html?poll=%20do%20you%20want%20qora%20to%20join%20microsoft%20azure%20baas%3FAs mentioned previously, the poll will run for 2 weeks and close on 15th of April. You, as a Qora holder, now have a chance to direct the destiny of Qora, so please vote confidently.  Happy voting, everyone!It's so great the Qora coin holders have the chance to vote on this MAJOR issue. Ask yourself this, if Qora gets into 'bed' with MS & Azure, do you think Microsoft will let us 'vote' on other important issues? NO, of course not, they will want to control things their way, and in any disputes they'll bully Qora community into getting whatever they want. Microsoft does not care about decentralisation, so vote NO, and keep Qora independent!What the everloving fuck are you talking about? What's with all the fear-mongering and tinfoil hat talk about M$ taking over Qora and controlling future development? First off, Microsoft doesn't give one or two shits about Qora. Second, there is absolutely no control handed over to Microsoft for getting Qora added as a BaaS; they get rights over what you put on their github repo and servers, i.e. a script that sets up Qora and starts syncing the blockchain. Third, if you're going to make outrageous claims, at least provide some evidence; all the people on this thread shouting about turning control over to Microsoft have supplied exactly zero relevant links backing up their (outrageous) claims of Microsoft pursuing control or adversarial legal action against Qora. I'm not a big fan of Microsoft, and I don't care one way or another whether Qora gets added to the Azure BaaS system, but can you guys with the crazy conspiracy theories provide a little bit of evidence as to what the fuck you're actually concerned about? |
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