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[JPred]

@jwinterm  It's a concern about IP ownership if you missed the previous posts.  There is also no evidence to the contrary.

For one, I haven't made up my mind yet since I have lots of time to still reflect upon this issue which from current discussion prove to be quite important. I would like an expert law interpreter (specifically in this particular field) to shed more light on what the interpretation of terms concretely would most likely boil down to and then I can make a much better informed decision as to yah  or nah.

[CIYAM]

For one, I haven't made up my mind yet since I have lots of time to still reflect upon this issue which from current discussion prove to be quite important. I would like an expert law interpreter (specifically in this particular field) to shed more light on what the interpretation of terms concretely would most likely boil down to and then I can make a much better informed decision as to yah  or nah.

Exactly what I want - but unfortunately we have a community that seemingly can't even raise enough funds for that so they rely upon stuff posted in IRC as their proof that Microsoft (who are well known to be against open source) are not going to be any threat.

You do notice that Bitcoin is not on Azure do you not?

Anyway - as stated previously if Qora goes down this path then CIYAM and Qora will be parting ways.

[jwinterm]

For one, I haven't made up my mind yet since I have lots of time to still reflect upon this issue which from current discussion prove to be quite important. I would like an expert law interpreter (specifically in this particular field) to shed more light on what the interpretation of terms concretely would most likely boil down to and then I can make a much better informed decision as to yah  or nah.

Exactly what I want - but unfortunately we have a community that seemingly can't even raise enough funds for that so they rely upon stuff posted in IRC as their proof that Microsoft (who are well known to be against open source) are not going to be any threat.

You do notice that Bitcoin is not on Azure do you not?

Anyway - as stated previously if Qora goes down this path then CIYAM and Qora will be parting ways.

Bitcoin is on Azure, fyi:
https://blog.bitpay.com/bitcore-for-microsoft-azure/

[CIYAM]

Bitcoin is on Azure, fyi:
https://blog.bitpay.com/bitcore-for-microsoft-azure/

That is not Bitcoin - that is BitPay's Bitcore (please check the content of your link before typing next time unless it is your intention to mislead of course).

It's strange that suddenly this topic is starting to become "trollish" with a lot of MS supporters now appearing.

I do hope that the original dev is noticing this and what is happening to Qora.

[jwinterm]

Bitcoin is on Azure, fyi:
https://blog.bitpay.com/bitcore-for-microsoft-azure/

That is not Bitcoin - that is BitPay's Bitcore (please check the content of your link before typing next time unless it is your intention to mislead of course).

It's strange that suddenly this topic is starting to become "trollish" with a lot of MS supporters now appearing.

I do hope that the original dev is noticing this and what is happening to Qora.

What part of "Run A Full Bitcoin Node in the Cloud" isn't Bitcoin? It's not Bitcoin-Qt/Core, but it's certainly Bitcoin. It's strange being called a troll for bringing facts to the discussion rather than wild conspiracy theories.

[CIYAM]

What part of "Run A Full Bitcoin Node in the Cloud" isn't Bitcoin? It's not Bitcoin-Qt/Core, but it's certainly Bitcoin. It's strange being called a troll for bringing facts to the discussion rather than wild conspiracy theories.

It is not Bitcoin software (which is written in C++)  it is node.js software (written in Javascript) and if you don't know the difference then that just shows the sort of problem that we have here.

That MS is against open source software is no conspiracy theory.

http://techrights.org/2010/09/17/microsoft-management-mocks-open-source/

If you're so confident that Azure will pose no threat then please hire a law firm to check into it.

[jwinterm]

What part of "Run A Full Bitcoin Node in the Cloud" isn't Bitcoin? It's not Bitcoin-Qt/Core, but it's certainly Bitcoin. It's strange being called a troll for bringing facts to the discussion rather than wild conspiracy theories.

It is not Bitcoin software (which is written in C++)  it is node.js software and if you don't know the difference then that just shows the sort of problem that we have here.

That MS is against open source software is no conspiracy theory.

Why is Bitcoin C++? Btcd written in Go isn't Bitcoin? Bitcoinj in Java not Bitcoin either? Bitcoin is a protocol that can be implemented in any language. Is Qora not real cryptocurrency because it's implemented in Java? Bitcore is a full node that syncs the entire blockchain:

Prerequisites
Node.js v0.12
~100GB of disk storage
~4GB of RAM

Saying that it's not Bitcoin is ridiculous.

[CIYAM]

Why is Bitcoin C++? Btcd written in Go isn't Bitcoin? Bitcoinj in Java not Bitcoin either? Bitcoin is a protocol that can be implemented in any language.

You are showing your ignorance now - this is not true as only the libconsensus code can be used to mine Bitcoin (without risk of forking) and that code only exists in C++.

Other implementations can be used for wallets and for blockchain explorers, etc. but not for mining Bitcoin (so such other implementations are *not Bitcoin* in any true sense).

It is becoming very clear that you have an agenda if you keep on insisting that Bitcoin wallet software is the same thing as Bitcoin itself.

[jwinterm]

Why is Bitcoin C++? Btcd written in Go isn't Bitcoin? Bitcoinj in Java not Bitcoin either? Bitcoin is a protocol that can be implemented in any language.

You are showing your ignorance now - this is not true as only the libconsensus code can be used to mine Bitcoin (without risk of forking) and that code only exists in C++.

Other implementations can be used for wallets and for blockchain explorers, etc. but not for mining Bitcoin (so such other implementations are *not Bitcoin* in any true sense).

It is becoming very clear that you have an agenda if you keep on insisting that Bitcoin wallet software is the same thing as Bitcoin itself.

Yea, this seems extremely relevant, since I'm sure there's going to be lots of people setting up nodes to mine on Azure...

[yubsep]

I am one of biggest fan with #QORA coin...
I bought #QORA when the price was 11 Satoshi...

[CIYAM]

I would ask that Qora please remove AT from the coin before going to the Azure platform.

Note that the copyright to AT is clearly marked as CIYAM Developers and we will not be signing anything to ever change that (and we'll be providing no further support to Qora should the project decide to proceed without retaining full rights to the IP).

[JPred]

I am one of biggest fan with #QORA coin...
I bought #QORA when the price was 11 Satoshi...

yubsep you're lucky indeed to have bought at 11 sat but I am luckier than you to have bought at 3 sat...

[yubsep]

Really !! You are very lucky...

yubsep you're lucky indeed to have bought at 11 sat but I am luckier than you to have bought at 3 sat...

[MadCow]

As I mentioned in my post, we will be able to reach major corporations, banks, and other institutional players by getting on Azure. Also, by getting on Azure, we will have a lot more chance to get picked up by major news outlets like CNBC and get the press time and recognition we deserve.

Having said that, I recognize this is a decision that must be made by the entire community because this move will affect the value of all your investment. Therefore, I'd like to take this opportunity and urge everyone to withdraw your Qora from the exchanges and participate in the vote.

You can participate in the poll by casting your vote via the decentralized voting system in Qora client (Voting tab), and you can monitor the progress of the poll here: http://qora.co.in:9090/index/blockexplorer.html?poll=%20do%20you%20want%20qora%20to%20join%20microsoft%20azure%20baas%3F

As mentioned previously, the poll will run for 2 weeks and close on 15th of April. You, as a Qora holder, now have a chance to direct the destiny of Qora, so please vote confidently. Happy voting, everyone!

It's so great the Qora coin holders have the chance to vote on this MAJOR issue. Ask yourself this, if Qora gets into 'bed' with MS & Azure, do you think Microsoft will let us 'vote' on other important issues? NO, of course not, they will want to control things their way, and in any disputes they'll bully Qora community into getting whatever they want.

Microsoft does not care about decentralisation, so vote NO, and keep Qora independent!

What the everloving fuck are you talking about? What's with all the fear-mongering and tinfoil hat talk about M$ taking over Qora and controlling future development? First off, Microsoft doesn't give one or two shits about Qora. Second, there is absolutely no control handed over to Microsoft for getting Qora added as a BaaS; they get rights over what you put on their github repo and servers, i.e. a script that sets up Qora and starts syncing the blockchain. Third, if you're going to make outrageous claims, at least provide some evidence; all the people on this thread shouting about turning control over to Microsoft have supplied exactly zero relevant links backing up their (outrageous) claims of Microsoft pursuing control or adversarial legal action against Qora.

I'm not a big fan of Microsoft, and I don't care one way or another whether Qora gets added to the Azure BaaS system, but can you guys with the crazy conspiracy theories provide a little bit of evidence as to what the fuck you're actually concerned about?

Sorry you think my doubts about Microsoft's intentions towards Azure and crypto currencies is fear-mongering. I'll plead guilt to 'doubt-mongering' though, and those doubts make me vote NO. I can see the attraction of being on Azure, but if every other coin is doing it, isn't the fact that Qora isn't a good marketing tactic? Qora is the 'independent' coin, beholden to nobody but the coin holders and users.

I also believe CIYAM's  development of AT has kept this project on life support long enough for us to be even having this discussion at all. Without CIYAM's involvement I think we'll likely be heading back to crypto obscurity, just at the moment we're finally getting some momentum. If CIYAM was for for Azure then maybe I would think otherwise, but he obviously thinks something similar to myself.

So ... make the case why Qora without CIYAM on Azure is better than what we have now? We're doing OK now, so why the rush? What are the alternatives to Azure we can consider? Is there an option for another independent provider to provide similar services? MS did start in a garage after all, are young turks with big dreams still working in garages in 2016? I'd prefer to be working with Bill Gates circa mid 70's to what he became in later years.

[MadCow]

I'm not a big fan of Microsoft, and I don't care one way or another whether Qora gets added to the Azure BaaS system, but can you guys with the crazy conspiracy theories provide a little bit of evidence as to what the fuck you're actually concerned about?

I'm concerned Azure is a tactic of MS to centralize the diverse crypto infrastructure we have now into a mega server farm platform they control, similar to what large shopping Malls and giant retailers have done to independent store owners. I see people like Blythe Masters and the big banks trying to do the same basic thing to the whole 'blockchain' concept itself - they want to control things, own things, things that should be open, because openness threatens their monopoly power & profits. They don't care about anything but profits, but what we have with decentralization can make a big difference in the world. These are the type of people who want to patent everything they can get their hands on, so they can 'own' basic knowledge and make $$. I hate that!

[tobsnn]

Really !! You are very lucky...

yubsep you're lucky indeed to have bought at 11 sat but I am luckier than you to have bought at 3 sat...

Holy moly

[jwinterm]

I'm not a big fan of Microsoft, and I don't care one way or another whether Qora gets added to the Azure BaaS system, but can you guys with the crazy conspiracy theories provide a little bit of evidence as to what the fuck you're actually concerned about?

I'm concerned Azure is a tactic of MS to centralize the diverse crypto infrastructure we have now into a mega server farm platform they control, similar to what large shopping Malls and giant retailers have done to independent store owners. I see people like Blythe Masters and the big banks trying to do the same basic thing to the whole 'blockchain' concept itself - they want to control things, own things, things that should be open, because openness threatens their monopoly power & profits. They don't care about anything but profits, but what we have with decentralization can make a big difference in the world. These are the type of people who want to patent everything they can get their hands on, so they can 'own' basic knowledge and make $$. I hate that!

Look, I'm not trying to troll the thread, and as I said before I don't care if Qora is added or not, but you didn't provide any evidence that MS will have or want any control over Qora, not even a little bit. Just more speculation, that in my mind sounds like some tinfoil hat type of speculation. People already run nodes on Azure, Amazon, Google, etc. The only thing this does is add an install script so you can start up an instance with Qora already installed and syncing the blockchain immediately.

[CIYAM]

There is a legal document that talks about IP rights is there not (a license)?

Yet you don't seem to want any lawyer to look at it to determine if there could be any problem (that is rather suspicious in my mind). Instead you'd rather just go ahead and sign the agreement because you read some non-lawyer on IRC say "it'll be fine".

Microsoft are not a charity so why do you think they are doing this?

If you worked for Netscape then I think you'd have a very different opinion about Microsoft (and for that shit alone I would never, ever co-operate with such a despicable company).

Decentralisation is not helped at all by such cloud services as they can be shut down (every single node) with a single phone call.

This is about control and keeping it out of the hands of greedy corporations.

[jwinterm]

There is a legal document that talks about IP rights is there not (a license)?

Yet you don't seem to want any lawyer to look at it to determine if there could be any problem (that is rather suspicious in my mind). Instead you'd rather just go ahead and sign the agreement because you read some non-lawyer on IRC say "it'll be fine".

Microsoft are not a charity so why do you think they are doing this?

If you worked for Netscape then I think you'd have a very different opinion about Microsoft (and for that shit alone I would never, ever co-operate with such a despicable company).

Decentralisation is not helped at all by such cloud services as they can be shut down (every single node) with a single phone call.

This is about control and keeping it out of the hands of greedy corporations.

I posted the document that the submitter has to sign ( http://windowsazure.github.io/docs/Contribution%20License%20Agreement.pdf ). It's only two pages. Here are some relevant excerpts:

1. Definitions.
“Code” means the computer software code, whether in human-readable or machine-executable form, that is delivered by You to Microsoft under this Agreement.

...

4. Licenses.
a. Copyright License. You grant Microsoft, and those who receive the Code directly or indirectly from Microsoft, a perpetual, worldwide, non-exclusive, royalty-free, irrevocable license in the Submission to reproduce, prepare derivative works of, publicly display, publicly perform, and distribute the Submission and such derivative works, and to sublicense any or all of the foregoing rights to third parties.
b. Patent License. You grant Microsoft, and those who receive the Code directly or indirectly from Microsoft, a perpetual, worldwide, non-exclusive, royalty-free, irrevocable license under your patent claims that directly read on the Code to make, have made, use, offer to sell, sell and import or otherwise dispose of the Code.

That sounds scary, I guess, but as I also wrote several times (after speaking with people who have gone through this process), you don't submit any code to them that is in the actual github repo (even though there is nothing they could do to change the MIT license, but this is beside the point); all you submit is an install script that calls wget or git clone. That is the the code "that is delivered by You to Microsoft under this Agreement", you don't submit the entire repo, just an install script, so the only code Microsoft is saying they have copyright and patent licensing over is the install script. Please feel free to continue with your insane ramblings at this time...

[CIYAM]

Please feel free to continue with your insane ramblings at this time...

If Qora was not rescued by @Vrontis and the CIYAM Developers we wouldn't even be having this discussion (the coin would have already died).

So if you want to start calling me names then don't be surprised if I simply decide to no longer care about the project (insulting the people that made you money is not generally considered a wise move).

As soon as the public realise that the AT support has gone then Qora will die - so better do your pump and dump quickly.

If you didn't realise it I own *zero* QORA and so I simply would not be affected if its value went to zero.