what year is it again?
2015, clearly |
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The real problem with blocking "dust" transactions is that it makes it more difficult to develop colored coin infrastructure using bitcoin. And to me, that is the most powerful application of decentralized payment networks. Imposing a barrier to developing that killer app on btc means that it will be developed first, or at least much more fluently, on another network or alt chain. I don't really think it's necessary to boycott btc client upgrades though. The market will sort out whether this is the killer app that I predict, or whether bitcoin is best used as a store of value as opposed to a payment network.
I just read https://docs.google.com/document/d/1AnkP_cVZTCMLIzw4DvsW6M8Q2JC0lIzrTLuoWu2z1BE/edit. Why can't you just use small transactions instead of dust below the threashold? What if tomorrow the devs again decide to raise the minimum limit? What will happen to earlier colored coins? There is no set minimum only a default. Lower the min fee to relay setting for your node (default is 0.1 mBTC in 0.8.2) and you lower the dust threshold (54.3% of prior value). If enough miners and relay nodes operate with a lower value it doesn't really matter what the default is. However the trend has been that the min fee has gone DOWN (in nominal terms) over time due to the deflationary nature of Bitcoin and the rising exchange rate. I think you under estimate the power of defaults. Nobody changes the default, and no one was ever going to change the default. This is a consequential change, because one of the key qualities of bitcoin is divisibility. This change shatters divisibility. Colored coin people also suffered, but they are a minority. The gain was that all the spam from satoshi dice, which is considerable, was lessened. It's all about pros and cons. In my view this was satoshi's project, and now it's gavins. Huge shoes to fill, but he's done a great job so far. We should however be vigilant over future changes, in a reasoned way, and I think that's exactly what the core dev team want to happen. Change one line here: main.cpp:55: int64 CTransaction::nMinRelayTxFee = 10000; Build binaries. Make said binaries publicly available. Accept the market's decision. Anything else is just pointless bitching. In open source software, disagreements are resolved through action, not words. |
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You can melt down all (legitimate) gold coins and put them in whatever form you want. You can not transform one cryptocurrency to another without finding a trading partner and agreeing on a conversion rate.
Securitization. Not quite the same, more like an alloy, but still a transformative effect. Still, even more so than my trade example, it relies on a trustworthy counterparty. |
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This ad has completely sidetracked the discussion. if the discussion continues can someone create a new thread for it.
Ok... so all you people that CONSTANTLY want to fork the discussion.. What do you expect this thread to be? It seems like people JUST want news from friedcat and nothing else. If that is what you want: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=49840;sa=showPostsOTHERWISE to me this thread is all encompassing talk about things related to ASICMINER. Sure it would be nice to have separate threads for everything... but without a subforum those threads just get lost. Till such time as we get a subforum... or an official forum... or something else this will remain the situation. You are not going to convince people, well at least me, to split up into multiple threads when those threads are scattered over several different forums on bitcointalk. To the topic at hand WOOT DIVIDEND DAY! Now I can pay my rent! And google translate for his latest post: I baked cat, as ASICMINER one of the founders recognized rockxie statement.
0.89 pricing calculation is based on all USB sales. But the rebate calculation time is to begin at 0.99 pricing, rebate amount is (by 0.99 to get the total number of USB * 0.1).
China, Canada and the European Union we have agents, so if there is no change in the event of any agency, we do not sell directly to these areas, buy we do not support.
LOL @ baked cat |
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Watch the comments. When everybody starts agreeing, we will be at the bottom.
The bottom of a 4 years bull market?  What stocks are you talking about that are in a 4 year bull market? I'm in the US, and our markets are at the top of a 7 year bull run. |
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tl;dr - it's not a scam, but it's also not innovative and doesn't offer anything that bitcoin doesn't.
this: I have yet to see compelling reasoning contrary to this point that's the typical crypto get rich quick opportunistic view I don't see how. When I first ran into Bitcoin, I didn't see it as an investment but rather as a pretty useful tool. It was only months later when I took the opportunity to buy in when I did. Litecoin does the same thing as Bitcoin, yeah, but to me this is like starting a second fork simply for the sake of. Personally, I will choose to stick to the older, longer fork because to me, it's more valid. Until LTC does something Bitcoin can't, I will stay on the majority fork. I by principle support and like all form of crypto-currency, also I like any form and shape of gold/silver coins.If I invest on buffalo gold coins my bias is towards that coins and i can make a dozen of excuses (marketing and promotion) why the buffalo gold coins are better that any other gold coins and any other form of gold, why ? simple i like to drive up the demand for buffalo coins so i can buy more land/food/service/products with them, same goes for LTC and BTC, LTC can perform the same functions like BTC. Does the Australian gold coins need to be better that the buffalo gold coins ? nope, if are 99% pure gold is the same thing and can perform the same function. The only scenario where one can like bitcoin and dislike litecoins/any_alt_coins is when they thread the crypto currency like a get rich quick scheme so having a competing scheme can leech suckers/idiots/pig/late adopters/you_name_it from the favourite sheme and that will ruin the plans of getting rich on the fastest way possible You can melt down all (legitimate) gold coins and put them in whatever form you want. You can not transform one cryptocurrency to another without finding a trading partner and agreeing on a conversion rate. |
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I've searched on that principle of maximum ruin, but I didn't found a lot of information. Could you detail it more please?
Thanks!
It's basically an application of the Pareto Principle. The Pareto principle (also known as the 80–20 rule, the law of the vital few, and the principle of factor sparsity) states that, for many events, roughly 80% of the effects come from 20% of the causes.
In other words, 20% of people will benefit from the big moves, and the other 80% will be the cannon fodder. Do you apply the same logic to the stock market?
Many comments on MarketWatch, Yahoo Finance and others are all about how the market is now finally crashing.
Watch the comments. When everybody starts agreeing, we will be at the bottom. |
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When I try to compile devcoin, it says make: *** No rule to make target 'bitcoind'. Stop.
Any ideas? I followed instructions accurately.
try make devcoind |
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That's okay since I don't plan to use 1Q68UdKBYgBVy7h4gAAXcipaoBPeoJZrXQ anymore and haven't for more than a week (that amount due is probably just from PPLNS carryover or whatever). I'll just use 1yrraLgmRZ1fbgtz2BSVXcWVrJnH785QZ from now on.
Sure, I'll make a note to add what I owe you in with the next payout to 1yrraL... I should have thought to just roll it in this time but I forgot you mentioned controlling both of those addresses. |
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Speculators gone? Pshh
Speculators never leave a financial market
In utopias they do. The word comes from the Greek: οὐ ("not") and τόπος ("place") and means "no place". So... never. |
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Facts and logic were thrown your way a plenty, you misread them.
Sorry for going ad hominem on you tho.
Yes I did. Now please answer me this: Who is going to buy all that hardware that bordering on profitability at current levels? Certainly people will get stop buying if difficulty continues to rise at the rate you claim. Won't that slow down growth? Well, a few things can happen, but basically ASIC companies have to adapt and respond. They are big market players now, with lots of power. If people stop buying, ASIC companies have to lower prices (they operate at huge margins when you consider the "burn in's"). Mining profitability increased, people will buy again. If ASIC companies don't wanna lower their prices, they can put them to mine themselves, we all know they've done it already.. It would be a total mess though..Idk what would happen to btc, prolly not good. There are less than 1000 TH combined between all preorders and inventory (in the case of ASICMiner). Currently the network is hashing at 150 TH/s. Even if all of it came online, we would be less than 8X current difficulty. Is there really enough money left to be invested into ASICs to push us past 20X in the next year? That's another 2000 TH of ASICs that aren't even planned for production yet. 1000 TH is way off. KNCMiner alone has already more than 2600 orders (last time I checked, maybe a week ago, bound to be more now). The big model has 350 GH/s and the small one 175 GH/s . Lets use that one: 2600 * 0.175TH/s = 455 TH/s If I do a wild guess and say they sold half and half: 1300 * 0.175 TH/s = 227.5 TH/s 1300 * 0.350 TH/s = 455 TH/s TOTAL = 682.5 TH/s That's KNC alone, and they are the newest player, and the ones who've been taking orders for the least time. Okay KNC 700 BFL 800 ( this lists 408 and some are already deployed, but lets double it for kicks) AM 200 Avalon 300 (pretty clueless here so I based it on about ~3TH per 10k chip order X 100 orders) Even if we assume everyone delivers within the next year (Avalon has been iffy lately, and KNC has yet to prove themselves), that is 2000 TH, 1500 of which is already purchased waiting for delivery. So, we can absorb 500 TH/s of demand before anyone needs to produce another run. Is there really another 1500 TH worth of demand for miners bordering on profitability? |
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...
buy 11th unit next month to compensate a 10% rise in difficulty. and pocket 1.5BTC
rinse and repeat for a constant never ending 1.5BTC income per month.
Network hash rate increased ~ 600% in 4 months (from 25TH/s to 150TH/s) since ASICs started shipping...and the ramping up of ASIC production is just getting started...by many companies that haven't even begun shipping yet. Expect a market flood. I laugh at your 10% increase every month. Do the math, and a little forecasting both optimistic and pessimistic, either way, the increase in ASIC hashing power will crush your returns faster than a Black Wednesday on the DOW. Denial is a river in Egypt my friend. I've been mining for 2 years now. Made most of my BTC in the beginning when hashing power was within grasp of the common man. I'd like to get into ASIC but I just can't justify the prices, especially if you have to pay in BTC. I rather pay good old USD. Just recently stop GPU mining. I've reached my break even point on my GPU mining. At current USD/BTC, it's just not worth it. I'm willing to bet that a USB miner will no longer be worth mining in less than 6 months (1 BTC/device) from now and you will not recoup your 1 BTC you spent to get it. I'll re-visit this post in 6 months and post an update. 400 MH/s USB miners cost me $2 a year in electricity. Are you sure they won't be worth mining on in 6 months? |
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Wow such a harsh mistress you are. Please read more carefully. Can you recognize pixel colors on a screen and figure out how to handle them in an unseen computer system? Perhaps I should hire you if you are such a magician. Do you really think probability calculations are simple math?   Dude... why the fuck would you use computer vision to parse HTML? Also, those equations are pretty damn simple. |
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Facts and logic were thrown your way a plenty, you misread them.
Sorry for going ad hominem on you tho.
Yes I did. Now please answer me this: Who is going to buy all that hardware that bordering on profitability at current levels? Certainly people will get stop buying if difficulty continues to rise at the rate you claim. Won't that slow down growth? Well, a few things can happen, but basically ASIC companies have to adapt and respond. They are big market players now, with lots of power. If people stop buying, ASIC companies have to lower prices (they operate at huge margins when you consider the "burn in's"). Mining profitability increased, people will buy again. If ASIC companies don't wanna lower their prices, they can put them to mine themselves, we all know they've done it already.. It would be a total mess though..Idk what would happen to btc, prolly not good. There are less than 1000 TH combined between all preorders and inventory (in the case of ASICMiner). Currently the network is hashing at 150 TH/s. Even if all of it came online, we would be less than 8X current difficulty. Is there really enough money left to be invested into ASICs to push us past 20X in the next year? That's another 2000 TH of ASICs that aren't even planned for production yet. |
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It would cost you all the money you gave it  . |
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Facts and logic were thrown your way a plenty, you misread them.
Sorry for going ad hominem on you tho.
Yes I did. When I get bullied I get defensive and my thoughts aren't as clear. Now please answer me this: Who is going to buy all that hardware that is bordering on profitability at current levels? Certainly people will get stop buying if difficulty continues to rise at the rate you claim. Won't that slow down growth? |
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China ain't gonna collapse as long as there are production business left in the western world to out-source. Give it another decade.
Right and wrong it takes time for a country to wither away esp one which is second biggest financially. However it will be outsourcing to us as long as there is incentive to do so. The minute that american govt outs a tax on china labour to the corporations then itnwill stop. How can they do this? When energu costs allow them to compete internally as well as competitive exporting. Who wouldnt pay 5% extra for something made in usa or canada? As energy becomes cheaper through innovation or politics the choice will become available to do so. Exactly, energy is key and we are closer than ever to having enough for large scale automation. Automation may have unitended consequences though.. Higher gdp but also higher unemployment? No, that is very much an intended consequence desired by the companies who implement it. Mechanical labor is way cheaper and makes it possible to actually manufacture at home. At least as far back as Adam Smith in 1776, (wage and price) deflation was identified as the outcome of leaps in technological progress. If you depend on a job that can be automated, I would consider learning to be a mechanic, a programmer, or a hardware designer. It sucks for those that are unable to be retrained, but when a society chases progress at all costs, this is the cost. |
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No dumbass. I'm claiming it will (can) not go down below the current level.
Imho it will go up by a lot, but for the sake of optimism I'm assuming it stays the same as today, for a whole year !
If you wanna do your calculations based on the assumption diff growth will reduce, by all means, go ahead.
I see why we are talking past each other. You are talking about growth rate and I was discussing difficulty level. I absolutely do want to base my assumptions on difficulty growth not continuing at it's current pace for a full year. We will see it continue to rise in the short term, but without bitcoin price increases it will taper off. Yes, if price rises enough to create a new difficulty boom you could indeed lose in bitcoin terms. Barring that, there should be a gain over just holding tight, IMO. You are entitled to your opinion, but I would prefer if you stuck to facts and logic instead of ad hominem. |
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In mathematics, extrapolation is the process of estimating, beyond the original observation interval, the value of a variable on the basis of its relationship with another variable.
See how dumb you are: original observation interval = Using the last 10 diff changes, the daily diff increase is right now of 1.3 %. These are current factual real values !
1.3 x 11 days = 14,36 %
I used the original observation. No estimations here. Try it yourself. Unprofitable. Now if remember correctly, your calculations are based on: the random assumption on 20x growth in a year. That is an estimate (actually maybe a guess at most..). Wow. Where did you get your math training at? You should ask for a refund. You are claiming that the past directly predicts the future with a linear relationship. This will not hold for the reasons I mentioned. |
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