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2501  Economy / Services / Re: B-BOT: New BTC-E and MtGox EMA Trading Platform on: July 16, 2013, 11:41:07 PM
Quote from: fible1 on July 16, 2013, 02:22:23 PM
Hi Kuroth Smiley,
   I'm glad you are enjoying your bot, it makes us very happy when people both understand and enjoy our products Smiley.

We don't have a fixed ETA on the back testing after the release of V2, but like everything we have been working on, it will be brought out the door as fast as we can make it while maintaining quality standards. Back testing is the feature that I personally most want to see on V2 actually.

I like the idea of higher time frames, I read Gomboo's post and I think it's worth it to add those; the problem however, is that the EMA model requires 144 data points, so, if we where to use a 24 hour frame, that is 144 days of data that we need and we are not sure whether the exchange API's will throttle us or if we can actually hold data that far back. We'll take a better look at it and let you know. Please know we are taking a serious look at this.

Please let us know if you need anything at all, we are here to make your experience as fun and profitable as possible Smiley.

Pablo.

I have been learning how the bot works by watching it make decisions. I think there is room for improvement with just a few extra features.

Is there any chance that the tables that show up showing the Time, Price, Diff could be outputted in some other form? CSV or just as a regular HTML web page that gets re-generated with ongoing measurements of diff?

The reason I ask is because the bot gives valuable information that can make it extremely trivial to make a profit at any setting. The issue is the chrome plugin seems to generate a valid web page with "all the details" but the page itself is not directly accessible.

I am a fan of automation and would very much love to get my hands on the data spit out by the B-Bot in "popup.html". I have been trading manually alongside the B-Bot in a different account and that has netted me about 10 to 15 BTC in the last two days. But the B-Bot has actually lost .3 BTC in a test account (originally with 4.5 BTC) in the same time frame.

-------------------------

The reason I ask is because I noticed that the B-Bot pays close attention to the differences between the two EMA lines to determine the crossover. Both going up and down. The shape of the curve and the steepness can be determined from simply looking at the difference values. What I haven't seen yet is any form of the bot tracking what the original entry point was. (Maybe it does, but it doesn't give any indication of what that value might be)

I assumed the "Stop Trading Loss" feature was implemented as a way to trigger some kind of percentage where the bot would execute a trade. The only problem is it does not appear to work. (I am unsure)

I place very low settings on the bot to see if it would trigger trades even with a drop of 1%+ (my stop loss setting) and it seems to follow the curve even when it drops more than 1% (in my favor).

So there seems to be a very critical feature missing from B-Bot v2 beta. It follows EMA fine but it loses plenty of trading opportunities. (as evidence on my other account where I gained nearly 15 BTC by follow the EMA lines manually)

--------------------

If I could pull out that table data as a popup.html that keeps tabs on the diff data it would be a godsend. Is there any way to pull it open in any (full featured) browser?
2502  Economy / Services / Re: B-BOT: New BTC-E and MtGox EMA Trading Platform on: July 15, 2013, 12:13:39 PM


I just noticed a bug.
2503  Economy / Services / Re: Arbitrage with guaranteed profits with Bitcoin-Brokers. on: July 15, 2013, 04:19:35 AM
Quote from: justusranvier on July 08, 2013, 12:03:24 AM
I'll reply here since you've made this new thread.

Quote from: justusranvier on July 06, 2013, 07:12:45 PM
Quote from: sayulita on July 06, 2013, 07:08:06 PM
And the award for best solution goes to..........

That could work!
The problems start to show up when you consider that transaction volumes large enough to make this worth the effort are very likely to cause banks to close one's account.

Somebody with enough fiat and bitcoins to act as a constant liquidity provider for your site is going to run into a significant problem - a personal bank account in the US that receives cash deposits from random people all over the country and wires out all received funds to an offshore bitcoin exchange is very quickly going to be identified as a high-risk account, probably reported for suspicious activity, and surely closed.

What if you instead arbitraged between people who want to buy bitcoins and traders who want to cash out their fiat from BTC-e and Bitstamp (or any exchange that allows account-to-account transfer of fiat balances)?

Bitcoin-Brokers opens accounts on both of those exchanges and announces that they will buy fiat balances at a 1% premium (the person selling fiat receives 1% more in their bank account than they sold). Bitcoin-Brokers can then locate a bitcoin buyer who can deposit cash in the appropriate bank account.

Once that transaction is successfully completed, Bitcoin-Brokers can buy bitcoins with the fiat balance, give the bitcoin buyer their funds, and keep 1% + the spread between the exchange they are buying on and Mt Gox in bitcoins as profit.

Note that as your volume increases the act of you buying bitcoins will tend to bring down the spread.

If you need more people willing to deposit fiat into bank accounts, you can also service people trying to move fiat into the exchanges.
Or Bitcoin Brokers could also average out the median rate for different percentages into one unique offer.

For example, if they have 30 sellers who give them 100 BTC to sell on their brokerage site:

If,
10 BTC are at MtGox +10%
and the rest are MtGox +5%

Then they should sell all of it at the average median rate rather than:

90BTC at +5%
and
10BTC at +10%

=================

It might possibly make the sales go much faster.
2504  Economy / Service Discussion / Re: increase in localbitcoin transactions? on: July 15, 2013, 04:12:17 AM
I have noted alot more activity.

BitInstant, may it rest in ashes.
2505  Bitcoin / Hardware / Re: BFL refund through Paypal claim on: July 15, 2013, 04:08:16 AM
Quote from: Phinnaeus Gage on July 14, 2013, 01:49:27 AM
Let's see what kind of pussies BFL truly is: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=255830.0
Have you been sued yet PG?

(You scoundrel!)
2506  Economy / Services / Re: B-BOT: New BTC-E and MtGox EMA Trading Platform on: July 15, 2013, 12:52:50 AM
I just purchased the software.

Currently taking it out on a spin to see how it handles. I just finished setting up the API settings, but it says "Could not retrieve funds" when I hover over the button in chrome.

(By the way, does this extension work on a (Chrome) Android based Tablet?
2507  Economy / Trading Discussion / Re: TRADING BOT: iTrader - Trade your cryptocurrencies... Professionally! on: July 14, 2013, 10:57:04 PM
It's apparently a scam.
2508  Other / Off-topic / Re: Petition to get BF Labs Inc. to sue me. Please sign. on: July 14, 2013, 02:18:30 AM
Quote from: Phinnaeus Gage on July 14, 2013, 01:47:48 AM
The following is not an opinion made by myself. I present it as fact.

BF Labs Inc. (Butterfly Labs) owned my Sonny Vleisides is nothing but a crock and should be avoided at all cost. Anybody who currently has a product on pre-order that's not expected to be shipped any time soon should ask for an immediate refund before they close down shop and the main principals leave the country.

Again, the above I present as fact and not as an opinion.

Anybody who believes that BFL now has the right to sue me, please sign this thread.

If in 10 days from this day I do not receive a letter from their lawyers informing me in no uncertain terms that they are suing my ass, then the above is definitely proven to be fact.

I will not judge a single person who signs this thread. The more signatures the better regardless of how you feel about me.

Thank you, in advance, for participating.
I will sign the petition with a blood oath!

Phinnaeus Gage, you scoundrel, you should get sued to high heaven!
2509  Bitcoin / Hardware / Re: BFL refund through Paypal claim on: July 14, 2013, 01:31:19 AM
The AUP folks might be able to address your issues:

(402)935-2223   Sheryl AUP Compliance      
(402)935-2250   Katrina AUP Compliance      
(402)935-2275   Lisa AUP Compliance      
(402)935-2332   Julie Gonzales AUP Compliance      
(402)935-5140   Alahandre Elise(?) AUP Compliance  

AUP = Account Use Policy (If I recall correctly)
AUP = TOS enforcement (Terms Of Service)

(402)935-2255   Jasmine Account Review      
(402)935-2256   Jamie Account Review      
(402)935-2257   Jamie Account Review      
(402)935-2328   Chris Account Review      
(402)935-2333   Luke Account Review      

(402)935-2239   Collin Fraud & Security     Fraud Prevention    
(402)935-2267   Mark Fraud & Security     Trust & Safety    
(402)935-2272   Michael Fraud & Security     Protection Services    
(402)935-2366   Suzanne Combes Brown Fraud & Security     Risk Management Manager    
(402)935-2368   Sheryl London Fraud & Security     Protection Services: Senior Agent    
(402)935-5134   Bill Gray Fraud & Security     Internal Audit. Mountain View Office: 650-864-8046

(402)935-2015   Teresa Rains Charge Backs       
(402)935-2141   Mikalea Charge Backs       
(402)935-2152   Anna Charge Backs       
(402)935-2189   Margaret Charge Backs       
(402)935-2340   Debbie Charge Backs   
2510  Bitcoin / Hardware / Re: Announcement - ASIC mining processor by Butterfly Labs on: July 13, 2013, 09:28:48 PM
Alright, listen up, no one say anything about BFL after the above comment.

No, not even it's management or any forms of [perceived] incompetence therein.

Let him bask in the glowing irony of his own statement and circumstance.

Shhh....just let it be.
2511  Economy / Currency exchange / Re: 24change.com - Buy/Sell Bitcoin, Paymer, BTC-E code, PM, Okpay, Paypal, Egopay on: July 13, 2013, 06:30:28 PM
Can you exchange MG for BTC-e codes?
2512  Economy / Currency exchange / Re: BUYING BTC/LTC ~$400 worth - Verfied PayPal - Will use Middleman/escrow on: July 13, 2013, 06:10:58 PM
You don't have anything but a new account. I pity the person that risks this....
2513  Economy / Currency exchange / Re: BOA/PayPal/OKPay for 3 BTC [ESCROW Enabled] Buy BTC with Confidence on: July 13, 2013, 04:54:08 PM
Selling off 3 BTC. Get it before it is gone. Contact me first to check your reputation. BOA deposits only.
2514  Bitcoin / Hardware / Re: BFL refund through Paypal claim on: July 13, 2013, 03:20:03 PM
Quote from: trichome on July 11, 2013, 01:27:59 PM
got my money back through paypal refund.  Cheesy
You bastard....!

Just kidding, congrats on exercising your rights to...get your money back. <shrug?>

=================

Anyone else interested in getting your money back after BFL refuses?

Go here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=250985.60

Quote from: PuertoLibre on July 13, 2013, 07:22:49 AM
A Special Thanks To Ryan Downs For The Following Upper Management
Phone Numbers.
1-408-967-5033 (TOLL NUMBER) Michael Oldenburg, HE WANTS TO HEAR YOURCOMPLAINTS!
1-408-376-7514 (TOLL FAX Number) Ryan Downs, Senior Vice PresidentOperations, PayPal, Inc. and eBay Inc.
1-402-935-2050 (Toll Number)
1-888-215-5506 (Toll Free Number)
1-888-221-1161 (Toll Free Number)
1-408-376-7400 (Toll Number)
1-408-376-7514 (Toll Fax Number) PayPal, San Jose, General Fax #1-650-864-8000 (Toll Number)
1-402-935-2284 (Toll Number -- Banking and Check Issues)
1-402-935-2212 (Toll Number -- ACH Processing & Check Services)
1-402-935-2255 (Toll Number -- Account Review Department)
1-402-935-2257 (Toll Number -- Account Review Department)
1-402-935-2223 (Toll Number -- PayPal Compliance)
1-402-935-2250 (Toll Number -- PayPal Compliance)
1-402-935-2000 (Toll Number -- Customer Service Department)
1-402-935-2007 (Toll Number -- Customer Service Department)
1-402-935-5181 (Toll Number -- Debit Card Services)
1-402-935-2116 (Toll Number -- Escalations Department)
1-402-935-2129 (Toll Number -- Escalations Department)
1-402-935-2238 (Toll Number -- Management, Escalations Department)
1-402-935-2239 (Toll Number -- Fraud Prevention Department)
1-402-935-2251 (Toll Number -- Manager, Resolutions Department)
1-650-251-1101 (Toll FAX Number -- Never Fax w/o a Case Number!)
1-408-376-7514 (Toll FAX Number -- Never Fax w/o a Case Number!)
1-408-967-1005 (Toll Number -- Amanda Pires, PayPal Media Relations)
1-402-537-5755 (Toll FAX Number -- PayPal Chargeback Department)
1-402-938-2337 (Toll FAX Number -- Compliance Department)
1-303-395-2802 (Toll FAX Number -- Compliance Department)
1-402-952-8691 (Thomas, PayPal Executive Dying to Receive Your Call)
1-402-935-2238 (Tiffany Zaporowski, Strategic Risk Operations)
1-402-935-2116 (Elizabeth Morey, Supervisor, Executive Escalations)
1-402-952-8691 (Thomas, Senior Agent, Dying to Receive Your Call)
1-402-935-2172 (Adam Braasch, Senior Agent)
1-402-952-8902 (Gabriel, Agent, Executive Escalations)
1-402-935-2268 (Beth Beutler, Senior Agent)
1-402-935-5146 (Leslie Byrne, Senior Agent)
1-402-935-2399 (Janyce Erikson, Senior Agent)
1-402-935-5145 (Melody Fry, Senior Agent)
1-402-935-2174 (Jackie Hart, Senior Agent)
1-402-935-2229 (Michael Lazure, Senior Agent) *ACH/Wire Expert*
1-402-935-5163 (Rick Martin, Senior Agent)
1-402-935-5073 (Stephanie Mikovec, Senior Agent)
1-402-935-2157 (Megan Moore, Senior Agent) *WORKS WEEKENDS*
1-402-935-3533 (Peggy Pattavina, Senior Agent)
1-402-935-2331 (Tara Stevens, Senior Agent)
1-402-938-3532 (Megan Wetzel, Senior Agent)   
(402)935-2114   Kay P. ACH / Check Services       
(402)935-2212   ACH Processing Main Line ACH / Check Services       
(402)935-2284   cindy ACH / Check Services     Processing / Bank Only    
(402)935-2295   Chuck ACH / Check Services     Processing Manager    
(402)935-2255   Jasmine Account Review       
(402)935-2256   Jamie Account Review       
(402)935-2257   Jamie Account Review       
(402)935-2328   Chris Account Review       
(402)935-2333   Luke Account Review       
(402)935-2114   Kay P. ACH / Check Services       
(402)935-2212   ACH Processing Main Line ACH / Check Services       
(402)935-2284   cindy ACH / Check Services     Processing / Bank Only    
(402)935-2295   Chuck ACH / Check Services     Processing Manager    
(402)935-2223   Sheryl AUP Compliance       
(402)935-2250   Katrina AUP Compliance       
(402)935-2275   Lisa AUP Compliance       
(402)935-2332   Julie Gonzales AUP Compliance       
(402)935-5140   Alahandre Elise(?) AUP Compliance       
(402)935-2029   Todd Business Development       
(402)935-5126   Shane Business Development     Schedule: 8:30~5PM M-F    
(402)935-5197   Ken Holston Business Development     Business Management & Account Management    
(402)935-2000   Call Center Inbound Call Center       
(402)935-2007   Call Center Inbound Line Call Center       
(402)935-2012   Call Center Inbound Call Center       
(402)935-2011   Call Center Inbound Call Center       
(402)935-2014   Call Center Inbound Call Center       
(402)935-2017   Call Center Inbound: Debit Cards Call Center       
(402)935-2019   Call Center Inbound Call Center       
(402)935-2021   Call Center Inbound Call Center       
(402)935-2022   Call Center Inbound Call Center       
(402)935-2023   Call Center Inbound Call Center       
(402)935-2024   Call Center Inbound Call Center       
(402)935-2025   Call Center Inbound Call Center       
(402)935-2030   Call Center Inbound Call Center       
(402)935-2050   Call Center Inbound Call Center       
(402)935-2053   Call Center Inbound: Premier Services Call Center       
(402)935-2057   Call Center Inbound Call Center       
(402)935-2065   Call Center Inbound Call Center       
(402)935-2079   Call Center Inbound Call Center       
(402)935-2080   Call Center Inbound Call Center       
(402)935-2081   Call Center Inbound Call Center       
(402)935-2082   Premier Service Line Call Center       
(402)935-2084   Call Center Inbound Call Center       
(402)935-2085   Call Center Inbound Call Center       
(402)935-2092   Call Center Inbound Call Center       
(402)935-2100   Call Center Inbound Call Center     Premier Services Line    
(402)935-2106   Call Center Inbound Call Center     Premier Services Line    
(402)935-2107   Call Center Inbound Call Center       
(402)935-2124   Call Center Inbound Call Center       
(402)935-2148   Call Center Inbound Call Center       
(402)935-2166   Call Center Inbound Call Center       
(402)935-2194   Call Center Inbound Call Center       
(402)935-2233   Call Center Inbound Call Center       
(402)935-2300   Call Center Inbound Call Center       
(402)935-2323   Call Center Inbound Call Center       
(402)935-5119   Call Center Inbound Call Center       
(402)935-2165   Jessica Card Services       
(402)935-2396   Tamara Spurlock Card Services       
(402)935-5181   Lisa Weaver Card Services     Debit Card Team    
(402)935-2015   Teresa Rains Charge Backs       
(402)935-2141   Mikalea Charge Backs       
(402)935-2152   Anna Charge Backs       
(402)935-2189   Margaret Charge Backs       
(402)935-2340   Debbie Charge Backs       
(402)935-2063   Taj Education Team     Product Education    
(402)935-2064   Dona Education Team       
(402)935-2116   Elizabeth Executive Escalations     Works closely w/Tiffany(detp.mgr). Very Responsive.    
(402)935-2129   Joe Executive Escalations       
(402)935-2156   Brian Executive Escalations       
(402)935-2157   Megan Executive Escalations       
(402)935-2172   Adam Executive Escalations       
(402)935-2173   John Executive Escalations       
(402)935-2174   Jackie Executive Escalations       
(402)935-2192   Eric Executive Escalations       
(402)935-2128   Stacy Executive Escalations       
(402)935-2228   Stacy Executive Escalations       
(402)935-2238   Tiffany Executive Escalations     Manager of Executive Escalations.    
(402)935-2268   Beth Executive Escalations       
(402)935-2269   Michelle Executive Escalations     Schedule: Tues~Thur 9:30AM~8PM    
(402)935-2334   Luke Executive Escalations       
(402)935-5145   Melanie Executive Escalations     Schedule: M-F 4PM~Mid. CST    
(402)935-5146   Leslie Executive Escalations       
(402)935-5163   Rick Martin Executive Escalations       
(402)935-2112   Gloria Finance       
(402)935-2207   Jeremy Finance       
(402)935-2371   Julie Finance       
(402)935-2239   Collin Fraud & Security     Fraud Prevention    
(402)935-2267   Mark Fraud & Security     Trust & Safety    
(402)935-2272   Michael Fraud & Security     Protection Services    
(402)935-2366   Suzanne Combes Brown Fraud & Security     Risk Management Manager    
(402)935-2368   Sheryl London Fraud & Security     Protection Services: Senior Agent    
(402)935-5134   Bill Gray Fraud & Security     Internal Audit. Mountain View Office: 650-864-8046    
(402)935-2044   Paula Adams Global Services     Global Help Desk    
(402)935-2127   Amy Bush Global Services       
(402)935-2048   Joyce Brown Human Resources     Training Department    
(402)935-2051   Melanie Human Resources     Training Department    
(402)935-2128   Michelle Human Resources     HR/Benefits Coordinator    
(402)935-2169   Sterling Blackwell Human Resources     Employee Development    
(402)935-2283   Amy Human Resources     Staffing    
(402)935-2318   John Latke Human Resources     Training Department    
(402)935-2339   Michelle Mullis Human Resources       
(402)935-5128   Michelle Human Resources     Benefits Coordinator    
(402)935-2001   IVR Testing Line Internal / IT     Tests voice recognition, play around.    
(402)935-2004   IVR Testing Line Internal / IT     Tests voice recognition, etc.. play around    
(402)935-2026   Password Prompt (?) Internal / IT     Line immediately prompts for password. Unsure of it's use.    
(402)935-2032   Employee Attendance Line Internal / IT     (try user: 1234 pass:1234, works to play around with)    
(402)935-2069   ECS System Testing Internal / IT     Play around, not sure of purpose.    
(402)935-2299   Internal Software Helpdesk Internal / IT       
(402)935-5100   Employee Attendance Line Internal / IT     (user: 1234 / pass: 1234 to play around)    
(402)935-5151   Hold Music / Advertisement Internal / IT     Test Line for Hold Music ?    
(402)935-5149   Monitoring Line? Internal / IT       
(402)935-5168   Monitoring Line Internal / IT       
(402)935-5184   Gene (or Steve) Internal / IT     Technical Support Manager    
(402)935-5199   Call Center Status Line Internal / IT     This ext. will place the call center in Emergency or Normal state.   
(402)935-2274   Matthew Member Services     Member Services Supervisor    
(402)935-2321   Michelle Member Services     Supervisor (Sat/Sun/Mon 11A~Mid)    
(402)935-2357   Terry Dale Member Services       
(402)935-5161   Tim Loban Merchant Fraud & Risk     Weekend Supervisor (Sat/Sun/Mon 11AM~Mid)    
(402)935-5169   Alicia Merchant Fraud & Risk       
(402)935-2074   Tammy Galvin Quality Development       
(402)935-2226   Jenny Quality Development       
(402)935-2034   Janie Bartlett Resolution Services       
(402)935-2132   Bryant Resolution Services     Team Leader    
(402)935-2241   Lynn Vogue Resolution Services       
(402)935-2251   Mike McCormick Resolution Services     Resolution Services Supervisor    
(402)935-2266   Rich H. Resolution Services       
(402)935-2353   Lorie Kilstrom Resolution Services       
(402)935-5120   Tim Underlow Resolution Services     Product Education Trainer for Resolution Services    
(402)935-5141   Resolutions Department Line Resolution Services       
(402)935-2218   Douglas H. Security       
(402)935-5172   Michell Security       
(402)935-2002   April Garner Unknown       
(402)935-2005   Adonocca Banks Unknown       
(402)935-2010   Nick Unknown       
(402)935-2013   Pat Unknown       
(402)935-2018   Vicki Hernandez Unknown       
(402)935-2020   Mary Jo Unknown       
(402)935-2028   Megan Unknown       
(402)935-2039   Jeff Hagan Unknown       
(402)935-2040   Mary Steeley Unknown       
(402)935-2041   Michelle Parkins Unknown       
(402)935-2049   Jason Finer Unknown       
(402)935-2052   Eduardo(?) Unknown       
(402)935-2054   Tonya Unknown       
(402)935-2055   John Freeze Unknown       
(402)935-2061   Rick Unknown       
(402)935-2062   Nick Unknown       
(402)935-2066   Michelle Unknown       
(402)935-2073   Kelly Shipley Unknown       
(402)935-2086   Jeff Allen Unknown       
(402)935-2087   Patience Unknown       
(402)935-2091   Dawn Mouski Unknown       
(402)935-2095   Steve Unknown       
(402)935-2098   Dona Shong Unknown       
(402)935-2099   Shelly Unknown       
(402)935-2101   John Unknown       
(402)935-2103   Latrisha Harris Unknown       
(402)935-2104   Lisa Hughes Unknown       
(402)935-2110   Amy Lescott Unknown       
(402)935-2113   Kelly Unknown       
(402)935-2115   Maggie Mentato Unknown       
(402)935-2118   Paul Ingles Unknown       
(402)935-2119   Stacy Price Unknown       
(402)935-2123   Kelly Unknown       
(402)935-2125   Koreen Unknown       
(402)935-2126   Michelle Unknown       
(402)935-2134   Cindy Langstrom Unknown       
(402)935-2136   Lynette Lane Unknown       
(402)935-2138   Kim Unknown       
(402)935-2142   Kimberly Unknown       
(402)935-2149   Mark Rosenthal Unknown       
(402)935-2150   Eddie Unknown       
(402)935-2154   Charles Unknown       
(402)935-2158   Bill Unknown       
(402)935-2168   Peggy Unknown       
(402)935-2170   Deb Myer Unknown     Schedule: M-F 8AM~4:30PM    
(402)935-2171   Trish Unknown       
(402)935-2175   Zack Unknown       
(402)935-2178   Lashaun Unknown       
(402)935-2179   Beth Unknown       
(402)935-2181   Valerie Dasante Unknown       
(402)935-2182   Erin Crain Unknown       
(402)935-2183   Frank Unknown       
(402)935-2184   Kevin Armstrong Unknown       
(402)935-2186   Emily Heldridge Unknown       
(402)935-2187   Erin Unknown       
(402)935-2188   Lamay Unknown       
(402)935-2201   Ray Unknown       
(402)935-2203   Sherry Unknown       
(402)935-2204   Lisa Thompson Unknown       
(402)935-2205   Kimberly Unknown       
(402)935-2206   Osma Unknown       
(402)935-2216   Tracy Unknown       
(402)935-2217   Shaun Unknown       
(402)935-2224   Meliss Unknown       
(402)935-2225   Jim Unknown       
(402)935-2227   Eric Harrison Unknown       
(402)935-2129   Name not known Unknown       
(402)935-2229   unknown Unknown       
(402)935-2230   Mark Peterson Unknown       
(402)935-2234   Dave Unknown       
(402)935-2236   Brock Unknown       
(402)935-2237   Shaun Unknown       
(402)935-2240   Angie Anderson Unknown       
(402)935-2244   Julie Gonzales Unknown       
(402)935-2246   Sally Unknown       
(402)935-2253   Deb Unknown       
(402)935-2254   Ellie Unknown     Number changed to 935-1835, per voicemail.    
(402)935-2259   Tereasa Unknown       
(402)935-2264   Eric Unknown       
(402)935-2265   Doug H. Unknown       
(402)935-2271   Cynthia Unknown       
(402)935-2273   Leslie Walker Unknown       
(402)935-2276   Heather Johnson Unknown       
(402)935-2281   Jason Alexander Unknown       
(402)935-2288   David Unknown       
(402)935-2291   John Unknown       
(402)935-2298   Chris Unknown       
(402)935-2302   Jim Norway Unknown     Call was forwarded to a Nextel Phone Afterhours (management?)    
(402)935-2305   Amanda Unknown       
(402)935-2308   Cathy Unknown       
(402)935-2316   Laurie Unknown       
(402)935-2317   Jason Unknown       
(402)935-2322   Jamie Swanson Unknown       
(402)935-2324   Jessica Carasoul Unknown       
(402)935-2335   Steve Unknown       
(402)935-2336   Marissa Unknown       
(402)935-2341   Laurie Unknown       
(402)935-2342   Torrence Unknown       
(402)935-2349   Karen Unknown       
(402)935-2350   Beverly Unknown       
(402)935-2351   Karen Lovette Unknown       
(402)935-2358   John Kimmee Unknown       
(402)935-2363   Claire Shumiker Unknown       
(402)935-2364   Mary Viella Unknown       
(402)935-2365   Frank Unknown       
(402)935-2367   Mary OBrien Unknown       
(402)935-2369   Kelly Carson Unknown       
(402)935-2370   unknown Unknown     person answered, unsure, will recheck later.    
(402)935-2372   Bob Miles Unknown       
(402)935-2375   Renee Unknown     Schedule: Tues~Fri 1:30PM~Mid.    
(402)935-2376   Foreign Speaking Employee Unknown     Foreign Employee.. anyone identify language ?    
(402)935-2377   David B. Unknown       
(402)935-2381   Tina Unknown       
(402)935-2386   Cameron Unknown       
(402)935-2387   Cindy Unknown       
(402)935-2391   Alisha Rhea Unknown       
(402)935-2392   Cindy Kathork Unknown       
(402)935-2393   Andres Unknown       
(402)935-2394   Robin Unknown       
(402)935-2395   Jim Unknown       
(402)935-2397   Mark Davis Unknown       
(402)935-2399   Janice Erickson Unknown     Schedule: M-F 6AM~2:30PM    
(402)935-5103   Nicole Unknown       
(402)935-5105   Natalie Unknown       
(402)935-5106   Angie Unknown       
(402)935-5108   Gene Unknown       
(402)935-5111   Doug Maxum Unknown       
(402)935-5113   Becky Unknown       
(402)935-5115   Carrie Unknown       
(402)935-5116   Paula Baldwin Unknown       
(402)935-5117   Dave Burchill Unknown       
(402)935-5121   Andy J. Unknown       
(402)935-5123   Micheal Jones Unknown       
(402)935-5129   Marlow Rumington Unknown       
(402)935-5133   Jeanette Unknown       
(402)935-5136   Quincy Unknown       
(402)935-5138   Terrell Anderson Unknown       
(402)935-5144   Lisa L. Unknown       
(402)935-5147   Evan McCaul Unknown       
(402)935-5152   Jessica Palamino Unknown       
(402)935-5156   Steve Unknown       
(402)935-5164   Tonya Lynn Unknown       
(402)935-5165   Devon Unknown       
(402)935-5171   Carrol Unknown       
(402)935-5175   Cindy Unknown       
(402)935-5148   Jeff Lonka Unknown     Admin maybe (msg says if urgent, call: 402-490-9749)    
(402)935-5176   Sheila Unknown       
(402)935-5178   Unknown Employee Unknown       
(402)935-5179   Tim Maxwell Unknown       
(402)935-5185   Rich Unknown       
(402)935-5186   Jerry Lowe (female) Unknown       
(402)935-5187   Brian G. Unknown     Voicemail says w/Ebay    
(402)935-5189   Brian Unknown       
(402)935-5192   Christian Reese Unknown       
(402)935-5194   Reese Unknown       
(402)935-5195   Angie Unknown       
(402)935-5196   Scott Unknown

Source Link: http://www.paypalsucks.com/PayPalPhoneNumbers.shtml
2515  Economy / Scam Accusations / Re: BFL (BF Labs Inc; Butterfly Labs) officially refusing to refund their customers. on: July 13, 2013, 07:22:49 AM
A Special Thanks To Ryan Downs For The Following Upper Management
Phone Numbers.
1-408-967-5033 (TOLL NUMBER) Michael Oldenburg, HE WANTS TO HEAR YOURCOMPLAINTS!
1-408-376-7514 (TOLL FAX Number) Ryan Downs, Senior Vice PresidentOperations, PayPal, Inc. and eBay Inc.
1-402-935-2050 (Toll Number)
1-888-215-5506 (Toll Free Number)
1-888-221-1161 (Toll Free Number)
1-408-376-7400 (Toll Number)
1-408-376-7514 (Toll Fax Number) PayPal, San Jose, General Fax #1-650-864-8000 (Toll Number)
1-402-935-2284 (Toll Number -- Banking and Check Issues)
1-402-935-2212 (Toll Number -- ACH Processing & Check Services)
1-402-935-2255 (Toll Number -- Account Review Department)
1-402-935-2257 (Toll Number -- Account Review Department)
1-402-935-2223 (Toll Number -- PayPal Compliance)
1-402-935-2250 (Toll Number -- PayPal Compliance)
1-402-935-2000 (Toll Number -- Customer Service Department)
1-402-935-2007 (Toll Number -- Customer Service Department)
1-402-935-5181 (Toll Number -- Debit Card Services)
1-402-935-2116 (Toll Number -- Escalations Department)
1-402-935-2129 (Toll Number -- Escalations Department)
1-402-935-2238 (Toll Number -- Management, Escalations Department)
1-402-935-2239 (Toll Number -- Fraud Prevention Department)
1-402-935-2251 (Toll Number -- Manager, Resolutions Department)
1-650-251-1101 (Toll FAX Number -- Never Fax w/o a Case Number!)
1-408-376-7514 (Toll FAX Number -- Never Fax w/o a Case Number!)
1-408-967-1005 (Toll Number -- Amanda Pires, PayPal Media Relations)
1-402-537-5755 (Toll FAX Number -- PayPal Chargeback Department)
1-402-938-2337 (Toll FAX Number -- Compliance Department)
1-303-395-2802 (Toll FAX Number -- Compliance Department)
1-402-952-8691 (Thomas, PayPal Executive Dying to Receive Your Call)
1-402-935-2238 (Tiffany Zaporowski, Strategic Risk Operations)
1-402-935-2116 (Elizabeth Morey, Supervisor, Executive Escalations)
1-402-952-8691 (Thomas, Senior Agent, Dying to Receive Your Call)
1-402-935-2172 (Adam Braasch, Senior Agent)
1-402-952-8902 (Gabriel, Agent, Executive Escalations)
1-402-935-2268 (Beth Beutler, Senior Agent)
1-402-935-5146 (Leslie Byrne, Senior Agent)
1-402-935-2399 (Janyce Erikson, Senior Agent)
1-402-935-5145 (Melody Fry, Senior Agent)
1-402-935-2174 (Jackie Hart, Senior Agent)
1-402-935-2229 (Michael Lazure, Senior Agent) *ACH/Wire Expert*
1-402-935-5163 (Rick Martin, Senior Agent)
1-402-935-5073 (Stephanie Mikovec, Senior Agent)
1-402-935-2157 (Megan Moore, Senior Agent) *WORKS WEEKENDS*
1-402-935-3533 (Peggy Pattavina, Senior Agent)
1-402-935-2331 (Tara Stevens, Senior Agent)
1-402-938-3532 (Megan Wetzel, Senior Agent)   
(402)935-2114   Kay P. ACH / Check Services       
(402)935-2212   ACH Processing Main Line ACH / Check Services       
(402)935-2284   cindy ACH / Check Services     Processing / Bank Only    
(402)935-2295   Chuck ACH / Check Services     Processing Manager    
(402)935-2255   Jasmine Account Review       
(402)935-2256   Jamie Account Review       
(402)935-2257   Jamie Account Review       
(402)935-2328   Chris Account Review       
(402)935-2333   Luke Account Review       
(402)935-2114   Kay P. ACH / Check Services       
(402)935-2212   ACH Processing Main Line ACH / Check Services       
(402)935-2284   cindy ACH / Check Services     Processing / Bank Only    
(402)935-2295   Chuck ACH / Check Services     Processing Manager    
(402)935-2223   Sheryl AUP Compliance       
(402)935-2250   Katrina AUP Compliance       
(402)935-2275   Lisa AUP Compliance       
(402)935-2332   Julie Gonzales AUP Compliance       
(402)935-5140   Alahandre Elise(?) AUP Compliance       
(402)935-2029   Todd Business Development       
(402)935-5126   Shane Business Development     Schedule: 8:30~5PM M-F    
(402)935-5197   Ken Holston Business Development     Business Management & Account Management    
(402)935-2000   Call Center Inbound Call Center       
(402)935-2007   Call Center Inbound Line Call Center       
(402)935-2012   Call Center Inbound Call Center       
(402)935-2011   Call Center Inbound Call Center       
(402)935-2014   Call Center Inbound Call Center       
(402)935-2017   Call Center Inbound: Debit Cards Call Center       
(402)935-2019   Call Center Inbound Call Center       
(402)935-2021   Call Center Inbound Call Center       
(402)935-2022   Call Center Inbound Call Center       
(402)935-2023   Call Center Inbound Call Center       
(402)935-2024   Call Center Inbound Call Center       
(402)935-2025   Call Center Inbound Call Center       
(402)935-2030   Call Center Inbound Call Center       
(402)935-2050   Call Center Inbound Call Center       
(402)935-2053   Call Center Inbound: Premier Services Call Center       
(402)935-2057   Call Center Inbound Call Center       
(402)935-2065   Call Center Inbound Call Center       
(402)935-2079   Call Center Inbound Call Center       
(402)935-2080   Call Center Inbound Call Center       
(402)935-2081   Call Center Inbound Call Center       
(402)935-2082   Premier Service Line Call Center       
(402)935-2084   Call Center Inbound Call Center       
(402)935-2085   Call Center Inbound Call Center       
(402)935-2092   Call Center Inbound Call Center       
(402)935-2100   Call Center Inbound Call Center     Premier Services Line    
(402)935-2106   Call Center Inbound Call Center     Premier Services Line    
(402)935-2107   Call Center Inbound Call Center       
(402)935-2124   Call Center Inbound Call Center       
(402)935-2148   Call Center Inbound Call Center       
(402)935-2166   Call Center Inbound Call Center       
(402)935-2194   Call Center Inbound Call Center       
(402)935-2233   Call Center Inbound Call Center       
(402)935-2300   Call Center Inbound Call Center       
(402)935-2323   Call Center Inbound Call Center       
(402)935-5119   Call Center Inbound Call Center       
(402)935-2165   Jessica Card Services       
(402)935-2396   Tamara Spurlock Card Services       
(402)935-5181   Lisa Weaver Card Services     Debit Card Team    
(402)935-2015   Teresa Rains Charge Backs       
(402)935-2141   Mikalea Charge Backs       
(402)935-2152   Anna Charge Backs       
(402)935-2189   Margaret Charge Backs       
(402)935-2340   Debbie Charge Backs       
(402)935-2063   Taj Education Team     Product Education    
(402)935-2064   Dona Education Team       
(402)935-2116   Elizabeth Executive Escalations     Works closely w/Tiffany(detp.mgr). Very Responsive.    
(402)935-2129   Joe Executive Escalations       
(402)935-2156   Brian Executive Escalations       
(402)935-2157   Megan Executive Escalations       
(402)935-2172   Adam Executive Escalations       
(402)935-2173   John Executive Escalations       
(402)935-2174   Jackie Executive Escalations       
(402)935-2192   Eric Executive Escalations       
(402)935-2128   Stacy Executive Escalations       
(402)935-2228   Stacy Executive Escalations       
(402)935-2238   Tiffany Executive Escalations     Manager of Executive Escalations.    
(402)935-2268   Beth Executive Escalations       
(402)935-2269   Michelle Executive Escalations     Schedule: Tues~Thur 9:30AM~8PM    
(402)935-2334   Luke Executive Escalations       
(402)935-5145   Melanie Executive Escalations     Schedule: M-F 4PM~Mid. CST    
(402)935-5146   Leslie Executive Escalations       
(402)935-5163   Rick Martin Executive Escalations       
(402)935-2112   Gloria Finance       
(402)935-2207   Jeremy Finance       
(402)935-2371   Julie Finance       
(402)935-2239   Collin Fraud & Security     Fraud Prevention    
(402)935-2267   Mark Fraud & Security     Trust & Safety    
(402)935-2272   Michael Fraud & Security     Protection Services    
(402)935-2366   Suzanne Combes Brown Fraud & Security     Risk Management Manager    
(402)935-2368   Sheryl London Fraud & Security     Protection Services: Senior Agent    
(402)935-5134   Bill Gray Fraud & Security     Internal Audit. Mountain View Office: 650-864-8046    
(402)935-2044   Paula Adams Global Services     Global Help Desk    
(402)935-2127   Amy Bush Global Services       
(402)935-2048   Joyce Brown Human Resources     Training Department    
(402)935-2051   Melanie Human Resources     Training Department    
(402)935-2128   Michelle Human Resources     HR/Benefits Coordinator    
(402)935-2169   Sterling Blackwell Human Resources     Employee Development    
(402)935-2283   Amy Human Resources     Staffing    
(402)935-2318   John Latke Human Resources     Training Department    
(402)935-2339   Michelle Mullis Human Resources       
(402)935-5128   Michelle Human Resources     Benefits Coordinator    
(402)935-2001   IVR Testing Line Internal / IT     Tests voice recognition, play around.    
(402)935-2004   IVR Testing Line Internal / IT     Tests voice recognition, etc.. play around    
(402)935-2026   Password Prompt (?) Internal / IT     Line immediately prompts for password. Unsure of it's use.    
(402)935-2032   Employee Attendance Line Internal / IT     (try user: 1234 pass:1234, works to play around with)    
(402)935-2069   ECS System Testing Internal / IT     Play around, not sure of purpose.    
(402)935-2299   Internal Software Helpdesk Internal / IT       
(402)935-5100   Employee Attendance Line Internal / IT     (user: 1234 / pass: 1234 to play around)    
(402)935-5151   Hold Music / Advertisement Internal / IT     Test Line for Hold Music ?    
(402)935-5149   Monitoring Line? Internal / IT       
(402)935-5168   Monitoring Line Internal / IT       
(402)935-5184   Gene (or Steve) Internal / IT     Technical Support Manager    
(402)935-5199   Call Center Status Line Internal / IT     This ext. will place the call center in Emergency or Normal state.   
(402)935-2274   Matthew Member Services     Member Services Supervisor    
(402)935-2321   Michelle Member Services     Supervisor (Sat/Sun/Mon 11A~Mid)    
(402)935-2357   Terry Dale Member Services       
(402)935-5161   Tim Loban Merchant Fraud & Risk     Weekend Supervisor (Sat/Sun/Mon 11AM~Mid)    
(402)935-5169   Alicia Merchant Fraud & Risk       
(402)935-2074   Tammy Galvin Quality Development       
(402)935-2226   Jenny Quality Development       
(402)935-2034   Janie Bartlett Resolution Services       
(402)935-2132   Bryant Resolution Services     Team Leader    
(402)935-2241   Lynn Vogue Resolution Services       
(402)935-2251   Mike McCormick Resolution Services     Resolution Services Supervisor    
(402)935-2266   Rich H. Resolution Services       
(402)935-2353   Lorie Kilstrom Resolution Services       
(402)935-5120   Tim Underlow Resolution Services     Product Education Trainer for Resolution Services    
(402)935-5141   Resolutions Department Line Resolution Services       
(402)935-2218   Douglas H. Security       
(402)935-5172   Michell Security       
(402)935-2002   April Garner Unknown       
(402)935-2005   Adonocca Banks Unknown       
(402)935-2010   Nick Unknown       
(402)935-2013   Pat Unknown       
(402)935-2018   Vicki Hernandez Unknown       
(402)935-2020   Mary Jo Unknown       
(402)935-2028   Megan Unknown       
(402)935-2039   Jeff Hagan Unknown       
(402)935-2040   Mary Steeley Unknown       
(402)935-2041   Michelle Parkins Unknown       
(402)935-2049   Jason Finer Unknown       
(402)935-2052   Eduardo(?) Unknown       
(402)935-2054   Tonya Unknown       
(402)935-2055   John Freeze Unknown       
(402)935-2061   Rick Unknown       
(402)935-2062   Nick Unknown       
(402)935-2066   Michelle Unknown       
(402)935-2073   Kelly Shipley Unknown       
(402)935-2086   Jeff Allen Unknown       
(402)935-2087   Patience Unknown       
(402)935-2091   Dawn Mouski Unknown       
(402)935-2095   Steve Unknown       
(402)935-2098   Dona Shong Unknown       
(402)935-2099   Shelly Unknown       
(402)935-2101   John Unknown       
(402)935-2103   Latrisha Harris Unknown       
(402)935-2104   Lisa Hughes Unknown       
(402)935-2110   Amy Lescott Unknown       
(402)935-2113   Kelly Unknown       
(402)935-2115   Maggie Mentato Unknown       
(402)935-2118   Paul Ingles Unknown       
(402)935-2119   Stacy Price Unknown       
(402)935-2123   Kelly Unknown       
(402)935-2125   Koreen Unknown       
(402)935-2126   Michelle Unknown       
(402)935-2134   Cindy Langstrom Unknown       
(402)935-2136   Lynette Lane Unknown       
(402)935-2138   Kim Unknown       
(402)935-2142   Kimberly Unknown       
(402)935-2149   Mark Rosenthal Unknown       
(402)935-2150   Eddie Unknown       
(402)935-2154   Charles Unknown       
(402)935-2158   Bill Unknown       
(402)935-2168   Peggy Unknown       
(402)935-2170   Deb Myer Unknown     Schedule: M-F 8AM~4:30PM    
(402)935-2171   Trish Unknown       
(402)935-2175   Zack Unknown       
(402)935-2178   Lashaun Unknown       
(402)935-2179   Beth Unknown       
(402)935-2181   Valerie Dasante Unknown       
(402)935-2182   Erin Crain Unknown       
(402)935-2183   Frank Unknown       
(402)935-2184   Kevin Armstrong Unknown       
(402)935-2186   Emily Heldridge Unknown       
(402)935-2187   Erin Unknown       
(402)935-2188   Lamay Unknown       
(402)935-2201   Ray Unknown       
(402)935-2203   Sherry Unknown       
(402)935-2204   Lisa Thompson Unknown       
(402)935-2205   Kimberly Unknown       
(402)935-2206   Osma Unknown       
(402)935-2216   Tracy Unknown       
(402)935-2217   Shaun Unknown       
(402)935-2224   Meliss Unknown       
(402)935-2225   Jim Unknown       
(402)935-2227   Eric Harrison Unknown       
(402)935-2129   Name not known Unknown       
(402)935-2229   unknown Unknown       
(402)935-2230   Mark Peterson Unknown       
(402)935-2234   Dave Unknown       
(402)935-2236   Brock Unknown       
(402)935-2237   Shaun Unknown       
(402)935-2240   Angie Anderson Unknown       
(402)935-2244   Julie Gonzales Unknown       
(402)935-2246   Sally Unknown       
(402)935-2253   Deb Unknown       
(402)935-2254   Ellie Unknown     Number changed to 935-1835, per voicemail.    
(402)935-2259   Tereasa Unknown       
(402)935-2264   Eric Unknown       
(402)935-2265   Doug H. Unknown       
(402)935-2271   Cynthia Unknown       
(402)935-2273   Leslie Walker Unknown       
(402)935-2276   Heather Johnson Unknown       
(402)935-2281   Jason Alexander Unknown       
(402)935-2288   David Unknown       
(402)935-2291   John Unknown       
(402)935-2298   Chris Unknown       
(402)935-2302   Jim Norway Unknown     Call was forwarded to a Nextel Phone Afterhours (management?)    
(402)935-2305   Amanda Unknown       
(402)935-2308   Cathy Unknown       
(402)935-2316   Laurie Unknown       
(402)935-2317   Jason Unknown       
(402)935-2322   Jamie Swanson Unknown       
(402)935-2324   Jessica Carasoul Unknown       
(402)935-2335   Steve Unknown       
(402)935-2336   Marissa Unknown       
(402)935-2341   Laurie Unknown       
(402)935-2342   Torrence Unknown       
(402)935-2349   Karen Unknown       
(402)935-2350   Beverly Unknown       
(402)935-2351   Karen Lovette Unknown       
(402)935-2358   John Kimmee Unknown       
(402)935-2363   Claire Shumiker Unknown       
(402)935-2364   Mary Viella Unknown       
(402)935-2365   Frank Unknown       
(402)935-2367   Mary OBrien Unknown       
(402)935-2369   Kelly Carson Unknown       
(402)935-2370   unknown Unknown     person answered, unsure, will recheck later.    
(402)935-2372   Bob Miles Unknown       
(402)935-2375   Renee Unknown     Schedule: Tues~Fri 1:30PM~Mid.    
(402)935-2376   Foreign Speaking Employee Unknown     Foreign Employee.. anyone identify language ?    
(402)935-2377   David B. Unknown       
(402)935-2381   Tina Unknown       
(402)935-2386   Cameron Unknown       
(402)935-2387   Cindy Unknown       
(402)935-2391   Alisha Rhea Unknown       
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2516  Bitcoin / Hardware / Re: The price of New Blade and Mini Blade was announced by rockxie on: July 13, 2013, 06:42:48 AM
Before or after they request a refund and realize it doesn't do what they expected it would? (And therefore never turn it on...thereby...possibly...not adding to nor "securing" the network any further)

Perhaps, large en masse "sell offs" of hashing hardware at deeply discounted prices to one or two individuals with deep pocket books might even make the network less secure.

---------------

You are right, you are not advocating that people are getting a good deal. What would you "call it" if this were the case? (i.e. a bad deal for the customer)

Choose one word to describe that practice. (and no, Free Market is not one word)

P.S. Do you sell any AM hardware by any chance? (in the interest of full disclosure)

If so, do you sell the hardware at a price that even I would consider it beneficial to your customers?
2517  Economy / Scam Accusations / Re: BFL (BF Labs Inc; Butterfly Labs) officially refusing to refund their customers. on: July 13, 2013, 06:14:42 AM
Quote from: vcsmith on July 13, 2013, 05:49:46 AM
Quote from: DPoS on July 13, 2013, 05:30:22 AM
they can just ship you a box of fans real quick and then put you in warranty hell

True, and that will make for a great "unboxing" video.  I don't expect to ever receive a product from BFL, but I'm not laying down for them.

Everyone seems focused on lighting a fire under BFL.  I say, light the fire under PayPal and maybe they can help BFL find their checkbook.


I am with you, what did the fraud department say they would do next?
2518  Economy / Scam Accusations / Re: BFL (BF Labs Inc; Butterfly Labs) officially refusing to refund their customers. on: July 12, 2013, 11:59:01 PM
Quote from: JerimiahJohnson on July 12, 2013, 05:51:25 PM
I placed my order with BFL over a year ago, at this point it just makes me laugh when I think about it, I guess I expect that some day it will show up but we are going on 13 months now...  we are past the point of ridiculous.

In my opinion, if you place an order with BFL now, your hardware will be useless by the time you get it (due to extremely high difficulty). There really is no point.
You spent 1/50th of your life waiting for that BFL hardware. How does it feel compared to your Avalon purchase time?
2519  Bitcoin / Hardware / Re: The price of New Blade and Mini Blade was announced by rockxie on: July 12, 2013, 11:51:19 PM
The free market makes no guarantees that the buyer is in anyway informed or fully aware enough of whether the product being sold will actually do what it is being purchased to do.

It only stipulates that given enough competitors, the end result is that products will become cheaper (not necessarily better).

------------------------

There are giant holes the size of kansas city in the free market idea. (not that I am generally against it)

If you don't think I am saying something truthful...try sitting on your cars plastic bumper and see how many hundreds of dollars it costs you to get it repaired.  Wink

Cheaper =/= better.
2520  Bitcoin / Hardware / Re: The price of New Blade and Mini Blade was announced by rockxie on: July 12, 2013, 11:45:45 PM
Quote from: DeathAndTaxes on July 12, 2013, 04:24:33 PM
Quote from: nubbins on July 12, 2013, 04:17:49 PM
I've seen more than a few people kick up a stink about blade prices, not realizing that a lot of the numbers they're seeing are down payments.

I've also seen a stink about the price being too high.  People either believe in free markets or they don't.  Are they selling out?  Yes then the price isn't too high.  If the price is too high then they won't be able to move units at that price and they will lower the price.  Right now ASICMiner faces minimal competition.   Avalon has sold a lot of chips but not a lot of complete units.  If/when Avalon board builders start to sell in bulk and <gasp> even have units available for immediate delivery ASICMiner will be forced to lower their price ... or they won't sell anything.

Trust the power of open fair markets people.
The free market is an abstract idea.

Just because the free market is in action does not automatically mean that buyers are getting a good deal. It may turn out that way, but it doesn't necessitate that it will turn out that way.

The idea of a free market can be both good and bad to either party (sellers or buyers). If the conditions of the market are skewed it can be destructive through various pre-set conditions and/or even helpful if conditions are right.

=======================
An example of a destructive free market:

If a product is being sold at a price point where there are enough fools to "buy out" the supply in a free market. The fools will get burned.

These fools, once they part with their money, will not be making any positive return at a specific price point. As long as there are enough fools, the market is sustained without change. Leaving non-fools deprived of a particular product at a "useful" and workable price point.

If there is enough "demand" from new fools to replace old fools, the market can sell a product that never actually does anything useful to anyone. It will just move wealth from one pocket into another. Never serving it's ultimate purpose to a useful degree.

There is always a market for idiots to buy and sell things.
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