when the group using the "validation node" debate to not scale onchain are the same group that want pruning by default thus centralise only a small group of nodes to have the blockchain... its that idiot group causing more centralisation by making political demands that even more people not only NOT store the blockchain.. but also NOT even use the mainnet daily to want to sync the blockchain, thus defeating their own stance about their pretend desire of importance of the blockchain when its obvious they prefer a network that does not even have a blockchain
in short the blockchain is important but they dont care, so much so they dont even realise their path is causing more centralisation under the guise of silly agendas they pretend to play, pretending their agenda helps the blockchain decentralisation. when actual fact is that it does not


when even core devs have for 6 years said 4mb is network safe compared to their previous stance of 1mb safe. that means they COULD HAVE continued a regime of LEAN legacy tx to allow 4x tx count growth.
however they didnt go that path.

instead the byte miscounting and premiumising of actual lean transactions to then make bloaty witness tx seem affordable. has been their path. all to offer a feature gatway path to offrmamping to other insecure networks that dont even have a blockchain. nor even need confirmed blockchain balance to open channels or offer inbound balance to their partners.

also if you even look at their groups favoured subnetwork(this topics main characters) who have released stats on their events. of under 300 events per month (PASSING THROUGH THEM, not triggered by them) this is far far far less then the 2000tx per 10minutes the main net offers

even funnier is these guys premiss to put sole influence, promise and hope into this single subnetwork knowing its flaws that have yet for 6 years to be fixed, are ignoring that other subnetworks have populated more, meaning even users are voting with their funds to abandon LN and use something else due to the politics and delays in any/all scaling opportunities.

but going back to first point for emphasis. just using the 4mb acceptable space that wont harm the network (as core agree) would actually have allowed 4x more lean legacy tx, without the miscounting of bytes, whereby pruning was not a feature thus all those downloading core would actually be FULL validation archival nodes(keeping the blockchain decentralised)

offramping users to other networks that dont need full nodes and suggesting those that want to be full nodes should prune by default. are the ones that will centralise the blockchain the most. especially when they want only one dev group managing the rules on what software collects the blockchain data.

subnetworks have a NICHE but are not the solution. especially not this flawed subnetwork called LN that needs a complete rebuild or be scrapped and a fresh attempt made using different economic model.. rather then waiting another half decade for empty promises and pretend successes, even when the stats do not convey what they pretend

seems he had 900k followers so had some notable fanbase. but it was more of the fiat lifestyle of cars and vacations.. not crypto influencing

he was as quoted by his family as being a simple car salesman that didnt do well on bitcoin

in essence to grabbed money from everywhere he could, car deals he didnt pay suppliers back, gambling loans he didnt pay back and unpaid taxes. and then said all that money disappeared into bad crypto bets.

i wouldnt cast him as a crypto investor id cast his as a fiat loser that lost big in fiat land, where most of his financial hassles and hustles were fiat related, where crypto was the escape rope/excuse for loss

never good to see anyones life end, especially this way, but lets not pigeon hole this as a black mark against crypto, as most of his hustles were fiat related

coinmarketcap stats are USELESS

i can create a shitcoin tomorrow with 1trillion coins.. sell just 0.01 coin for $1 and yep i can create a coinmarket cap valuation of $100 trillion. making a shit coin 99% of all crypto markets and bitcoin under 1%

yep its cheap to mess with coinmarket cap stats.. they are meaningless

what you should be looking at is what are the majority of the big services accepting and the volume of their trades. (though that can be manipulated too, its better than the measure you spout)

bitmover has not got any responses correct

firstly several teams(not core) wanted to upgrade the bitcoin network in ways that would allow more transactions per block by increasing the blocksize.(the REKT era) core and their sponsored PR groups viamently fought against anyone not part of cores leadership of devs and their roadmap plan.

core(and their sponsors) wanted to upgrade to mess with scripting byte counting and formats to activate a feature that would allow other subnetworks for corporate middlement fee grabs. this feature also allowed fatter signature(script)space.. thus extending the blocksize.. BUT not really resulting in more multiples of transaction counts.
and thats the jist of the war.. both sides not getting consensus(mass vote) in 2015-mid 2017

 core proposed in mid 2017 a method to implement their upgrade that did not need majority users vote to activate cores method (due to 9 months of lack of even 50% demand for cores idea.. (nov2016-july2017))
the network upgraded eventually(unnatural 100% compliance in just a matter of weeks) using a mandated blackmail event(NYA agreement) which caused the fork. those that were on another team slinkered off to live on the fork caused by core and adapted their fork into something different due to realising core (emphasis on their name) became centralised powerhouse no one can fight

it did not require miners to write new code themselves.. instead it was core devs and their corporate sponsors that wrote code demanding that mining pools had to flag a new signal to accept the core upgrade or be rejected and forked off the network

core accomplished their goal

it was not a other team caused the fork. it was not average joe user nodes, it was not miners that wrote the code for segwit. it was corporate sponsored core devs that wrote the segwit code and blackmailed the wider community to comply or have their blocks rejected. where the corporations(NYA agreement) were the majority economic services everyone uses so had to follow or not have their coins seen by those services.

the mining pools did not even need to run the segwit code, they just needed to flag a bit of data in a block header that they were complying to avoid rejection.
the users nodes didnt need to pre-run segwit code to cause activation neither

i now expect certain cultish behaviour people to scream and cry their mantra of how they want to promote core as the saviours and leaders and how anyone going against core are agaisnt bitcoin.. and must be ignored, banned and told to f**k off

no
people can still admire bitcoin but despise cores centralist methodology, because bitcoin as a previously promoted decentralised network should not be complying to a central power house of blackmail. and no this does make those despising core be pigeon holed into supporting the forked team. nor does it mean anyone that wants to promote how core gained too much power should be told to shut up and just obey the cult mindset as a blind follower

but the total still only totals 19.44m coins not 21m coins

your own scenario was not 8mill coins. nor about 8mill users of less then 2.625. you categorically set the math. so stick to it
it was 8 mill chosen cult members of your believed cultship you want to set up, each holding 2.625btc each which would be 21m

and actually there are many many millions of average users that have CEX accounts. you just wanted to start a religious cult of only 8million people which you want to lead where you call micheal saylor your messiah/prophet

..
why is it that idiots that want to be cult leaders try setting up their dream scenarios but then forget their own messages and start arguing about their own scenario by pretending they never said it even though this very forum is the written proof of their message,

your not the first, you wont be the last. but if you cant even remember your own stance on things, try reading your own post history and other peoples replies. rather then making crap up pretending you didnt say what you opened the topic saying.

if your not happy with your own topic and you dont like the scenario you set. close the topic/lock the topic and start something that is more rational. dont play the idiot that forgot your own topics scenario just to argue your way into hopes of generating a fanbase into a cult of people that agree with you

YOU are the one shouting about locking up and holding and not selling 21m coins
YOUR math 2.625*8m=21m

there is only 19.44m coins available so far, so YOU are the one calculating a zero trade market as YOUR scenario

ill let you in on a bigger secret
the active price is not determined by the supply.. its determined by the order thats triggered/processed/taken at that very moment which sets the price
no sell=no price=no market

it does not matter if an order being processed for 21m coins in an order.. nor 2.625coins or 0.0001 coins.
a market order being processed for 0.0001 for $3 still causes the market price to show as $30k/btc.. because math

takae a look at the market orders.. people are not trading 21m per order, nor 2.625. majority of orders triggering price changes are decimal amounts

if however there is no orders being processed there is no price, there is no market.

and you keep saying you never suggested a no market scenario.. even though your math of 2.625*8m=21m
even when there is only 19.44m right now meaning all bitcoin are meant to be held in your own scenario. including future bitcoin promises

if you however said something rational like 2.42btc*8m =19.36m leaving 80k coins open to trade. then you might have kicked off your topic more rationally

also if you do actually look at the actual order depths of the market orderbooks of all exchanges the totals dont even exceed 5m coins

and if you are trying to include derivative crap in your calculation, then thats a fail on you for not understanding the differences

i never even made the assertions you replied with .. read my quote i never even used the words buzzword of silly highscool economics of "supply & demand" however you did multiple times in this topic

it seems your taking high school failed economics and trying to postulate from that standpoint without understanding the multiple levels of economics and how each level impacts the next.

its funny how you then say its about buying X less .. yet your whole topic is about a dumb scenario of ther being no buys at all.. thus making your rebuttals moot.
so i dig into your moot rebuttals and show you why they are moot becasue in a zero transactional market with no trade at all, there is no market
and with no spot market, that then affects the secondary markets of derivatives and darkpools which also crash to zero

and by the way, in 2008 alot of houses were foreclosed on and auctioned off cheaply in auctions as oppose to normal real estate listings thus causing a price drop in housing due to alot more housing being flash sold quickly when the derivatives banks wanted to exit their secondary market on mortgages..
it didnt matter about supply or demand. it was jsut price manipulation by forcing the comps down, it did not require all or high percentage of houses to be sold to crash it. it just required  select few being auctioned dirt cheap

you will learn this about bitcoin
bitcoin exchanges do not trade all current 19m coins each day to set prices.. there is a subset in exchanges of under 500k coins of which 90% are not even on market orders being processed. so call it only 50k coins traded at any given time frame. most of which are the same coins wash/arbitraged.
so forget your highschool "supply/demand" and realise there is more going on then that

the bitcoin value(number below market) is set by most efficient mining costs. this sets a bottom barrier of the lowest low for a period which people then speculate above that not due to supply but willingness/ability to buy.

there are currently americans willing to pay upto $40k if bitcoin price speculated that. there are japanese/hawaiian willing to pay upto $140k if bitcoin speculated that high. but each country has different value/premium limits before they give up
with this if there was no market for miners to sell coin to cover electric to continue mining. miners would give up mining. leaving the hashrate to crash, which would then make the cost to mine real cheap for anyone that decides to keep going due to lack of competition. this then lowers the bottom support meaning when markets open again those that did accumulate will want to exit quick and sell quick pushing the price down.

a forced ban of a market where no one sells does not cause a jump in market price. it in most scenarios causes the opposite becasue once the markets open again, majority are begging to sell at any price even at a loss, just to get out
it becomes a game of dominos, when a market opens and someone sells at a loss to exit, others see the price crash and they too panic and sell too.. and with miners having less competition thus a lower cost for those remaining. they too can sell cheap

learn beyond highschool economics

because if there is a oil blockade banning the sells of all oil(yet supply continues to pile up). then even the futures market will see this and be on a downside not an upside. (those with active contract will be trying to sell them at a loss becasue the contracts wont fulfil so they will want any dumb chump to buy their empty bag of contracts off them)

and when the blockade finally gets removed for actual oil. there will be alot of people ready to sell and everyone clamouring over each other to sell before the next person, thus causing a dump

same goes for real estate. those holding mortgage derivatives know that they are holding a losing contract. and so while tenants are foreclosed on because they stopped paying mortgages, the investors will want their money out but unable to sell the house so they just foreclose on tenants and hoard unsellable real estate, leaving homes in disrepair.
then when real estate market opens again everyone will be clamouring to auction off dilapidated/unkept houses for $1 just to get rid of their contract but knowing the tenant still owes them full amount of debt tenant didnt pay.. because well thats what happened in 2008 in one way or another

when there is a large stockpile of assets that cant sell.. the prices dont go up.. they go down

core think 4mb of data bloat is fine. so its not about your buzzwords of "big block"

its how the block data gets to be used and who gets to use it. EG their "discount" is not actually discount.. if you read the code (technical things you keep not doing) you will realise that its legacy *4 .... not segwit /4

its YOU that does not reference code or use technicals for your explanations you are the one using social recited buzzwords of idiots.

and if you dont think they want their subnetworks to be used more then bitcoin network.. observe this topic from the start. notice this topics point is to promote their subnetwork
lightning is not a open community build network. its all made majority by the same core devs that were part of the same masterplan that came from sponsorship from the same corporations. and them corporations will want their ROI back

it seems you ignore evidence and just want to repeat whatever your mentor tells you to say even if what he says is nonsense and is not backed by easily researchable evidence

give yourself a chance and break from your mentors words and for once observe the code, do some research and for once make up your mind for yourself. dont sound like a parrot of an idiot becasue it just makes people call you an idiot

simple math
2.625 * 8m = 21mill
so your saying ALL bitcoin

funnily enough there is not 21m coins available for 8 million people to accumulate 2.625 at the moment or in the future due to many coins locked up already.

also the first bitcoin market was the first bitcoin exchange. and coinmarketcap is not an market or an exchange. its just a flawed stats site.

i was going to give you a tough lesson in economics about bitcoin(again) and also a lesson in the real estate market(your analogy) but i feel you dont want to understand and are just looking for people that want to agree with you, where you are not looking for facts or corrections to your opinion

firstly. MS doesnt always "buy low" he just buys when his business is flush with cash but doesnt want to claim it as taxable profits. thus nothing special

secondly he is not the largest investment.

thirdly his investments are corporate not personal

fourthly his promotions are not really about the bitcoin network but a different network claiming to be bitcoin, but is instead a subnetwork bridge playing with a different unit of measure and payments between users feel nothing like a bitcoin transaction confirmation method nor does this network he promotes even have a blockchain. thus his adverts are a system which doesnt teach people much about how bitcoin actually works or secures itself. its just a sub par(with flaws) network that pegs other unit to bitcoin in a credit swap of vaulted up(locked) reserves of middlemen (aka LN)

over all bitcoin is not suppose to replace global finance, its suppose to hedge against idea's of one world currency" things like the dollars domination, and no MS is not a messiah, prophet, apostle,  or any other religious messenger

but the 'dont sell' isnt helping make new prices grow. it just stagnates the price to remain at whatever the price was a month, six month or 3 years ago, (whenever the market STOPPED)

by having no market growth.. refinancing becomes meaningless because you are not unlocking any excess equity. you are just causing yourself to double your debt with no benefit.

refinancing only works if the market has grown since the last sell. where you unlock the new higher amount to re invest in certain things.

the market price is done by the last order.. but if there has not been a last order for a long time then the price has remained at that last order amount. meaning it wont go up. because no one is triggering new orders to set new prices.

it doesnt matter how many buyers there are. if there are no sellers then there is no market

it uses 'comps' of other house sellers.. but if there is no one selling any real estate.. then there is no sells to compare or set market prices

EG if no one sells any real estate for the last 3 years. then the market comps is stuck at the 2020 level.. which is much lower then the open market price now (which in reality has seen sells happen.. )

yep no sells= no market

take another read of my first post in this topic after the first sentence you quoted for a better understanding of the economics and a healthier way to grow the market

again if no one is selling . ill repeat..  IF NO ONE IS SELLING.. there is no market nor price
imagine a fruit stall with no fruit to sell.. then realise there is no market stall, its just an empty table and a guy twiddling his thumbs not doing anything all day,week,year

nothing to sell =no market

then when the pump and dump group get permission to finally sell.. then you will just see the market crash. with everyone trying to cash out at once.

learn the economics. learn how things actually work and other ways to help the market prosper.. because your outdated and flawed vision of a massive pump and dump group is not the method, i explained a better method in last post

if no one sells a single bitcoin because everyone never sells... then there is no market. no price

trying to create a mass pump and dump group never lasts. what you need to learn is proper economics of bitcoin

imagine the underlying most efficient mining costs as the below market floor(foundation) and above that is the speculative market. if you want to aid bitcoins market then the underlying foundations of the market need to be pushed up to then have a better speculative market ontop, a market that people can then openly trade on at higher prices. thus not need any scheming pump and dump army. but instead a healthy market with healthy foundations getting stronger

you seem obsessed that the debate is core or bcash... you mentor is the one gaslighting you with the obvious chants you then recite verbatim from him

all your mentor wants is for anyone not ass kissing core to shut up and f**k off. he thinks core is god.. and thinks there is only a choice of core of GTFO to bcash. not realising that other devs could help with bitcoin or other options .. you have been gaslit by him by your own chants admission when you recite his mindset so precisely

think for yourself for once. there are other devs and dev groups, yet you only want core.. think how centralist you are reciting by only wanting core to do everything and then kissing their ass whilst waiting years for them to achieve their unmet promises for what the community wants and needs

as for redoubling their efforts.. well they are doing that. they are making more flaws to be abused. but your mentor calls them 'features' when the devs make their prefered subnetwork require watchtower custodians and also not require locked funding to open channels to give users unbacked inbound balance. (as their work around(facepalm))

but you wont open your eyes and observe the flaws. you will instead be eyes closed and closed minded about the actual (lack of) activity (lack of) utility. and instead just want to promote devs that cant even do things they promise

the fastest way to kill a projects development is to let the devs of any project not fulfil the projects needs that aid the community.. and instead just make crap that aids some corporation to make the project into the same crap as the thing the project was suppose to hedge against and be different to

and one last observation for you to think about for a while..
when you finally realise the similarity between the functionality of liquid+LN compared to many CBDC where you have been saying how CBDC is bad. you will then have the moment of realisation to why blockstream,brink,chaincodelab(main core devs) done all their efforts in conjunction with hyperledger project to produce the crap you admire.
look forward to that eye opening event once you stop robot reciting your mentors pitches

this is more of a speculation category topic. but lets answer it anyway

things to keep in mind:
a. for every seller, there is a buyer. otherwise orders just sit unprocessed
b. when whales put funds into an exchange. their choice is not just fiat.
c. when social media report on whales. general exchange users can react in the opposite path to what people expect



lets explain (c)
if another whale has a futures contract where he does not want the price to go below X. when seeing a rival whale possible wanting to sell down the spot market. the futures whale may swallow up those dips to keep the price up

another scenario. general users may see the possibility of a sells dip event due to a whale and want the discount so they go on a buy surge to buy up the dip to bring the price back to norm

lets explain (b)
putting btc into an exchange is not a guarantee fiat grab same day, it may be done slowly over months. and it might even be a buy event for altcoin. thus not causing a instant sell dip in the BTC-USD market

lets explain (a)
imagine the price is $29,999
there may be lots of buyers that limit themselves to stop buying at $30,001
buy are happy to buy heaps of coins under $30k
so if there is a large sell under $30k then its a great buy day for all buyers willing to buy under $30k who will eat up all them orders

you might want to actually look at the chinese cbdc and not take some blog post opinion of it
the PBOC do not monitor the citizens money much like the US treasury does not monitor US FIAT of citizens
instead it delegates payment services(banks) to do the customer monitoring and registration and reporting.. much the same as the american fiat system of today

and before you refer me to many crap blog sites. ill inform you of many mis conceptions
a. china is not a one bank currency. they have many many payment services.
b. you dont need to register your life history and become a citizen to get an account.
c. the chinese government have not been "watching everything"

heres a trick for you to try. go to any travel agent/money exchange service people use for vacations and ask for some chinese yuan..
note that you do not have to become a chinese citizen and have biometrics and bloodtests and give social security details over to get yuan

my previous post is actually using the e-cny example. which is where commercial services like ali-pay, wepay, tencent and other who do the customer management side.

surviving on chicken and tomato's for 30 days means you will be in food boredom after a week. and literally h-angry at the lack of choice. so h-angry that your survival time may be reduced purely by fighting in the relationship

be more diverse. there are other tinned vegetables. also you can get some gravy powders and other condiments to diversify a meals taste.

even some basic herbs can help make chicken taste different from one meal to the next. note there are other tinned meats too