Seems to me that one of the CoinLab investors has some serious pull with DHS.
Now that would be cutting off your nose to spite your face ^2... Something doesn't make sense here. Wonder what the real story is... |
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So far the "news" is from Dwolla and that is it. It doesn't sound sinister.
What news about any other payment providers outside of Dwolla? What are you talking about?
The MtGox queue is also over now, the said they are caught up.
You've only heard it from Dwolla. DHS serving a US District Court Order preventing Dwolla, but no other institutions, from doing business with Gox's US arm? Possible, but unlikely imo. Thx - Isn't Dwolla on the small side regarding funding? And do most Americans fund through an American payment provider or are they transferring funds to Japan? I'm wondering why we haven't heard anything from other funders. |
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Can you at least speak in facts? We are witnessing bad news just get eaten up by buys. Amazing, and that is all you can say? How about we just try to be realists and not Bulls or Bears? This is interesting lab work right now.  Facts are if the move on Gox comes from the US Government and severely interferes/destroys Gox's ability to process US transactions then you're going to see this "amazing" phenomenon amount to one massive bull trap within 48 hours. So far the "news" is from Dwolla and that is it. It doesn't sound sinister. What news about any other payment providers outside of Dwolla? What are you talking about? The MtGox queue is also over now, the said they are caught up. |
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It's really not the Coinlab lawsuit. For that to be the case, Mt. Gox would have had to have:
1. Been served;
2. Replied to the complaint (If you don't reply to the complaint before the deadline you'll lose automatically when Plaintiff files a motion for default judgment, nothing happens until you reply); and
3. Coinlab's attorneys would have to have made an ex parte motion for an injunction (if it was a motion on notice it would be scheduled weeks in advance), and won.
Furthermore, I highly doubt DHS would be serving an injunction in a civil action.
You could see huge news about Gox's US operations being targeted by a DOJ complaint this week.
But something doesn't make sense. FinCen isn't going after BTC, nor is any other government agency. Why now the DHS? The take down sports web sites! Just what Hitler envisioned they would do. LOL |
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Looks to be stabilizing.
Just before the next dive. Can you at least speak in facts? We are witnessing bad news just get eaten up by buys. Amazing, and that is all you can say? How about we just try to be realists and not Bulls or Bears? This is interesting lab work right now. |
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Wow, the buying is just relentless. The interest is much higher than I would have thought. There is true demand at these levels.
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The MtGox Market depth is looking better and better, albeit on low volume. Considering that, I am surprised how good it is looking. Yes, it can be manipulated.
That said - The bids at $70 are up solid just as the asks at $300 being down good. Total sales are dropping but the $ value of sale level is rising (e.g. - 100k level sells rose from $165 - $175).
Again, worried about the volume but at least the price is going up and not down along with the good market data.
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well, cheap coins are here... this is it, the moment you've all been waiting for  The fall will happen today. India (second largest economy) market fell like 500 points.. biggest in 5 years. Nasdaq and Dow will go down today.... people will want to recover cash by selling something to buy other stocks...(at their lowest price) highest at peak is BTC... so be ready in 2 hours for big sells Pretty bad logic there. You move money into things of value, not the other way around. Don't try to catch a falling Knife... The markets are up due to the Quantitative Easing funneling money into markets. They will print more but this can't keep up. Hence why BTC is up, a reflection of inflation (unlike manipulated gold/silver, which is only partially a reflection). Money starts to move again in to BTC now. Bitcoin is up because people saw the media attention and saw a way to get rich quick. Nothing more, nothing less. No, media attention alone and a quick rich scheme is a bit simplified. Are you open to discussion or is your "nothing more, nothing less" final? It is a hedge for people in dollars, Euros, etc. Get rich? How about don't let the banks take your money Cypress style (latest word is 80-90% of accounts with 100k or more). Some might get rich, but those are the few early adopters. This is a bit bigger than that. If BTC came along in the past it wouldn't have done much because money systems were more secure (at least more hidden). People have been waking up to the printing of more money. Buy you jumped all over that and made it into a money thing. It is a people thing. It is about equality and self management. It is about controlling our rights and not using money for wars and minipulations. This is a complex situation that is just starting in reality and for you to tell us the two things it depends on, which is more your projection, is pretty telling. We are just starting, others currencies will follow. Other modifications, other solutions, etc. Always open for discussion. Hell, anything is better than watching paint dry on these recent Bitcoin markets.  Exactly, Bitcoin is just starting. You are confusing diehard bitcoiners views about Bitcoin, with the views of the rest of the investing world. The rest of the world does not yet view Bitcoin the way you've described. That's my only point as descibed above. They view it as highly speculative and very high risk. Traditionally, with market collapses or huge downswings, people pull money out of high risk investments and into things they perceive to be safe. Again gold is a traditional avenue. Bitcoin is not...at least not yet. Ahh, I see you point a bit more. I'm not really a diehard bitcoiner, but I do see it as an incredible step forward. Very high risk, agreed. I wonder if those in Cypress thought the same?  Yes, gold and silver are "safe" but manipulated down so people don't see as much value. Funnily enough, even with the huge slam down from the 500 ton paper sale a month ago, more people are guying it now. And, the banks are once again long. I think it was a hedge fund that might have done that sell. Anyway, I wonder when the hedges (in addition to VC's) go more heavily into BTC.) It should be an interesting year and just think what may develop??? More China? Syria (I hope not). I do think some of the EU countries will have big problems... |
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well, cheap coins are here... this is it, the moment you've all been waiting for The fall will happen today. India (second largest economy) market fell like 500 points.. biggest in 5 years. Nasdaq and Dow will go down today.... people will want to recover cash by selling something to buy other stocks...(at their lowest price) highest at peak is BTC... so be ready in 2 hours for big sells Pretty bad logic there. You move money into things of value, not the other way around. Don't try to catch a falling Knife... The markets are up due to the Quantitative Easing funneling money into markets. They will print more but this can't keep up. Hence why BTC is up, a reflection of inflation (unlike manipulated gold/silver, which is only partially a reflection). Money starts to move again in to BTC now. Bitcoin is up because people saw the media attention and saw a way to get rich quick. Nothing more, nothing less. No, media attention alone and a quick rich scheme is a bit simplified. Are you open to discussion or is your "nothing more, nothing less" final? It is a hedge for people in dollars, Euros, etc. Get rich? How about don't let the banks take your money Cypress style (latest word is 80-90% of accounts with 100k or more). Some might get rich, but those are the few early adopters. This is a bit bigger than that. If BTC came along in the past it wouldn't have done much because money systems were more secure (at least more hidden). People have been waking up to the printing of more money. Buy you jumped all over that and made it into a money thing. It is a people thing. It is about equality and self management. It is about controlling our rights and not using money for wars and minipulations. This is a complex situation that is just starting in reality and for you to tell us the two things it depends on, which is more your projection, is pretty telling. We are just starting, others currencies will follow. Other modifications, other solutions, etc. |
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Here are the results of my recent (mtgox) order book calculations. As always, to be taken with a large grain of salt, since the order book is of course a primary tool for manipulation.
Apart from the obvious findings (rather big ask wall at 120; significant drop of bid/ask ratio over the weekend, from a peak of ~140 to ~120, now slightly going up again), the average of the 'all orders market execution price' is going up again, after going down about 10 USD over the weekend, indicating more bids/less asks and a better price composition. Finally, price composition in the range of the previous bid/ask totals also improved slightly, prices up about 2% compared to 12h ago.
Looks good to me. Word of caution though: with similar, in fact: even better values at the end of last week (my calculations showed a peak of the above values on the 10th), we barely passed 120, and not for long either. So I'm not exactly holding my breath that we're going to break 125 this week, although I'm not ruling it out either.
On the other hand, as I have posted multiple times now, as long as those metrics (and the related money flow metrics) don't substantially change in the coming days, I really don't see the potential for any sharp decline either.
I just went through it as well and clearly there is money starting to flow back into BTC. It is not huge, but the first decent jump I've recorded in a week or so and the bids (130k) at $70 are higher now than any (I've) recorded. Sell side $ value at 100k and 50k are up as well. Things starting to creep. But, as you said, manipulation can occur here, but still a good sign. I don't see any big walls anyway, it is the many small ones we can't see. Edit - I now see the walls coming up. |
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well, cheap coins are here... this is it, the moment you've all been waiting for The fall will happen today. India (second largest economy) market fell like 500 points.. biggest in 5 years. Nasdaq and Dow will go down today.... people will want to recover cash by selling something to buy other stocks...(at their lowest price) highest at peak is BTC... so be ready in 2 hours for big sells Pretty bad logic there. You move money into things of value, not the other way around. Don't try to catch a falling Knife... The markets are up due to the Quantitative Easing funneling money into markets. They will print more but this can't keep up. Hence why BTC is up, a reflection of inflation (unlike manipulated gold/silver, which is only partially a reflection). Money starts to move again in to BTC now. |
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This.
Also transactions between me and the government (=taxes) would be part of the blockchain.
The government could then be made directly accountable for spending coins from their addresses.
This is a very important aspect of Bitcoin. It forces institutions who would want to collect taxes via Bitcoin into honesty, because everybody can see their transactions. Also as mentioned, it takes away the option of the hidden inflation tax from them. In my opinion Bitcoin has such attributes, which make it destined to be attacked by governments and their financial backers. At the same time it's built with the anticipation of such attacks in mind and promises not to be subject to control from any one entity. I say it shall be a grand fight! Yes, the ledger is sweet, is it not? But they don't have to hide anything as they often say don't worry to us about "them" watching us, unless we are hiding things from them. An open and honest society in both directions. We are the government is what people and "governments" alike are starting to realize.... I envision having many crypto currencies in the near future, just as there are many state run currencies. Governments will be scrambling, as will militaries. There is just too much to keep an eye on. We are now in the Universe's hands... Anyone looking for a Virus... look no further than BTC... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ijPE7fe4XTg |
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IF we do succeed then these prices will seem like nothing (do the math regarding the float). If we don't succeed then I'm sure we still took part in one of the greatest experiments in recent history. Think about that - governments and wealthy individuals have always controlled money. This is the first step away from that (that I can think of). Still nice to say, years from now, that you tried to do your part to change things. And if things really take off, we shouldn't lose sight of the fact that it is truly all about sharing. I'm game when that time comes, we are all in this together. (Emphasis by Pzi4nk)
I like your overall message but I wonder about the part I highlighted. Do you really think bitcoin is immune from the manipulations of wealthy people, much less governments? Not to be inflamitory but it seems to me wherever there's a market it can be manipulated by great wealth. Its About Sharing is 100% right. I will answer you with a quote: Give me control of a nations money supply, and I care not who makes it’s laws. Mater Amschel Rothschild, founder of the Rothschild banking dynasty. The ones controlling the money supply are ruling de facto. Bitcoin takes that power away from them. And this is why, sooner or later, governments (which strictly follow the commands of the real rulers, the financial lobby) will try to destroy Bitcoin. That is all I'm saying. BTC is a step in the right direction. These viritual currencies will show us that money is in large part about trust. And since no one trusts governments, the next few logical steps seem clear. The masses will never move en mass unless they have to. At least with BTC there is an intermediary to start moving out of state controlled money's and I think the Chinese see BTC as a bit of a savior from them and the USD. It is probably going to get "exciting" there soon. Seems like Syria is on the agenda and talks between the west and Russia/China are centering around it. I really hope we can avoid disaster there, that is a tipping point imo. |
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It can last weeks.
That's not very long in the grand scheme of things. I beg to differ. Confidence is about knowing we won't tank. Compare with 2011. We're doing pretty good. And what happens if we do tank? Don't be all in or all out. If we tank than use your cash to pick up more shares. If we go up then at least you don't have to buy in later 2X as much. I know this is a speculation thread but we shouldn't really lose sight of the point here. It isn't about making money per say. It is about helping a new money to get a foothold. It is about being an early adopter to a revolutionary and risky idea. I'm cool with all that. So, instead of what others find to be a good entry point, make that decision for yourself. All I have to look at is the current "float" - 11 million is nothing. That is worth taking a chance over. IF we do succeed then these prices will seem like nothing (do the math regarding the float). If we don't succeed then I'm sure we still took part in one of the greatest experiments in recent history. Think about that - governments and wealthy individuals have always controlled money. This is the first step away from that (that I can think of). Still nice to say, years from now, that you tried to do your part to change things. And if things really take off, we shouldn't lose sight of the fact that it is truly all about sharing. I'm game when that time comes, we are all in this together. I'm afraid I can't see that. Yeah, it makes money for people, but it makes more money for people who have more money. This shifts some of that control around a bit, but it isn't revolutionary in that way. It is revolutionary in that it allows people to trade without involving fiat. That potential isn't realized yet, but it is there. The potential to make it all about sharing? Not so much. Sounds like you are too close to the tree and can't quite make out the forest. I don't disagree with you, Yes, in the near term you are right. I don't think BTC is THE answer, but I do think it is taking money in a new direction. In the end, money won't matter, but till we get there we are taking steps. In the meantime till money is not about power, there are choices - time based currencies are a great idea and will probably compliment BTC. But getting away Fiat currencies that back wars/killing should be at the top of our humane list of money's problems. You know how they say BTC will only have 21 million coins in 2140 (or whenever that is) - you know, I don't think it will get that far. Money as we know it, money as BTC, etc only has a few more decades if that (yes, imo). As long as money allows power over others, as does our political system, we will always be searching for more. And we will probably get there. If we are every going to truly live together, a much more star trek type system on money will be in order. When we get there and look back all these forms of money will seem barbaric, but each new one is hopefully a step in the right direction. |
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It can last weeks.
That's not very long in the grand scheme of things. I beg to differ. Confidence is about knowing we won't tank. Compare with 2011. We're doing pretty good. And what happens if we do tank? Don't be all in or all out. If we tank than use your cash to pick up more shares. If we go up then at least you don't have to buy in later 2X as much. I know this is a speculation thread but we shouldn't really lose sight of the point here. It isn't about making money per say. It is about helping a new money to get a foothold. It is about being an early adopter to a revolutionary and risky idea. I'm cool with all that. So, instead of what others find to be a good entry point, make that decision for yourself. All I have to look at is the current "float" - 11 million is nothing. That is worth taking a chance over. IF we do succeed then these prices will seem like nothing (do the math regarding the float). If we don't succeed then I'm sure we still took part in one of the greatest experiments in recent history. Think about that - governments and wealthy individuals have always controlled money. This is the first step away from that (that I can think of). Still nice to say, years from now, that you tried to do your part to change things. And if things really take off, we shouldn't lose sight of the fact that it is truly all about sharing. I'm game when that time comes, we are all in this together. |
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Wow, it is amazing to not see all those small orders going by. Looks more orderly. Stupid Question - The volume is not trades, but rather total BTC traded, right?
You know, to be honest, I think we are better off without the large bot trades. BTC is about a new form of money and if turns into machine traders then that is against what we are in a sense.
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How cool is it that the bearish highs and bullish lows have converged on the one month anniversary of the big crash from 266? Mere coincidence or divine forces at work?  I believe that the ascending bullish lows represent the notion that the underlying long term trend is consistent with the January-March trend, e.g. doubling every 30 days. This notion is unsustainable. I believe that the descending bearish highs represent the bubble collapse. Bubble theory says that typical bubbles give back all their speculative gains. Perhaps one month from the April 10 peak at $266 is long enough for the predominant trader sentiment to shift to the fact that the waves of new buyers are diminishing, causing demand to likewise diminish, causing prices to likewise diminish. But aren't we just trying to find a price and go from there? I mean looking at outstanding shares, shouldn't be be able to find an agreeable price. It is hard for me to look at this just as a TA thing. Yes, the bull run up was unsustainable but it happened at an interesting time and to find a price. Now we have started a correction and none of us really know where it is going. Also, the market has just opened up more to China it seems. I think sentiment is what is going to drive this, at least in large part. The other part might just be services and such - things that enable BTC. |
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I havn't read through all the posts, but has anyone noticed that the crash around 10-11 April coincided with Pluto stationing and going retro? Also Saturn going retro now, think it is back forwards around oct or november. I feel like these two outers, along with Uranus in Aries (which thouroughly symbolises BTC!) and moon movements are quite importnat.  2 posts above yours ;-) Just a note, on April 12th, which is just a few days after the "crash", Pluto (death, rebirth, regeneration, etc.) got as close to our Sun in the 6th as it would and then it started to back away. Perhaps Pluto was clearing out the speculators or the like. It is now retrograde (appearing to back away from the Sun in the birth chart) and stays that way till Sept 21. Then it comes again at the sun in the birth chart. In February of next year it again is within 2 degrees or so of the sun in the birth chart. That might again be an important time. It will be on top of it on March 29 2014. That should be quite interesting... |
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Hey guys, so here is a little interpretation of an important transit imo in the chart right now. This is just some fun for me, so you better astrologers out there feel free to add, challenge and correct me...
Depending on where in the world you are, there is a solar eclipse either today or early early tomorrow morning. Thinking of how this relates to BTC (and please jump in if anyone has any astrology to add):
This (solar eclipses in general) is a time of purging (cutting out the old) and yet is also a portal to something new. (perhaps those transits below)
In BTC's Dublin chart, which I will now use to keep in sync with Otoh's (and many others) interpretation - the Solar Eclipse is VERY powerful as there are two pretty strong transits to the natal chart. The solar eclipse (new moon) forms a 2 degree trine to Saturn as well as is 28 minutes off a sextile to Uranus.
So, looking at that trine to Saturn, this signifies endurance/tolerance. This is especially true during a solar eclipse. What this means? Not sure, perhaps we get hit and have to hold on and work through it. Perhapse we get hit with bad news and have to work through it. I'd take it as a positive though due to the trine. We just have to give a little of energy to get it to work, or rather BTC as well. Remember Saturn opposes Uranus in the birth chart, so this is an auspicious thing imo. BTC/we are getting to add our strength to what it is we are dealt. Saturn is also in the 3rd house, so perhaps we'll see some interesting news come out to help us here, something related to communication or how we are going to process this information.
The strong sextile to Uranus is more exciting to me. Again, Uranus opposes Saturn (establishment) in the birth chart, so now we are being given an emotion boost to "oppose" the powers that be. This is open to interpretation of course, but these are nice angles aiding imo, a tough angle in the birth chart. I say it goes for us and not against us. All those things that Otoh has said regarding Uranus in the chart are now being given a boost imo. It is a great time for some news to come out and emotionally challenge the system, so to speak. It can be quite shocking (Uranus) of course...
There is also a hit to Chiron, which if you follow is, in a way, about that pain from our past and healing it. Here there is a tough square angle, so it might require some work. The angle is separating (weakening in a sense) so perhaps it is a "fading" thing. Chiron in the birth chart is in the 7th house, so we are talking about relationships here, further it is in aquarius which can again signify the other or the masses out there. I just wonder, considering the other things, if some painful banking news or the like comes out. It can likewise be something painful towards BTC but I don't get that feeling due to the 2 prior transit hits being nice. We'll see...
Just a note, on April 12th, which is just a few days after the "crash", Pluto (death, rebirth, regeneration, etc.) got as close to our Sun in the 6th as it would and then it started to back away. Perhaps Pluto was clearing out the speculators or the like. It is now retrograde (appearing to back away from the Sun in the birth chart) and stays that way till Sept 21. Then it comes again at the sun in the birth chart. In February of next year it again is within 2 degrees or so of the sun in the birth chart. That might again be an important time. It will be on top of it on March 29 2014. That should be quite interesting...
IAS
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I caught up with the last 10 hours or so of this thread. Reading this thread and not looking at a chart of the price would make a person think that BTC lost a ton of value. I look at the chart and it basically hasn't moved.
What gives Bears? LOL
Talk about manipulation, seems like a ton of people trying to get people psychologically to break. The manipulation in the market isn't having much of an effect and neither is it here.
Remember Bears, we are a Black Swan and AntiFragile. See Sig and lots of Love,
Its about Sharing
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