Eurgh! Always with the incorrect use of the legal term, 'slander'.

It's 'libel' you ignoramus!

@funktrust


So who is the parent company in this arrangement? If the HK company owns all the assets (known as a 'Holding Company') and the UK company handles all the payroll and operational expenses, then the UK company must own the HK one, yes?

Please think before you answer. Get it wrong and you're going to end up admitting fraud again.

I believe it is a play on words Mr Zakir, in that your religion, like most, is primarily interested in earning a profit from the followers of their prophet.

So we can keep track of the 'miracles' 


Pretty much every monotheistic religion claims their god created the Universe, so what makes you think your book saying your god 'did it' is a miracle?

Verdict: No miracle, just a repetition of every other super-god story.


The quotes concerned make no mention of the Sun being in a galactic orbit, merely that both the Moon and Sun are in an orbit which, given the widespread ignorance of the time, probably indicates the quote came from someone who thought the Sun went around the Earth.

Verdict: No miracle, especially the suggestion in the second quote that the Sun has a 'resting place' - Bizarre and absurd.


Even children of the time would know this simply from something as basic as trying to throw a stone at the Moon.

Verdict: No miracle, common knowledge even bronze-age goat-herders would have figured out.


Dispute over the exact phrasing of this quote amongst Islamic scholars themselves and, in any event, vague enough to disregard and certainly not specific enough to align with modern knowledge.

Verdict: No miracle, just another 'glory be to . . .' hand-wavy bit of reverse-engineering the 'facts' to fit your preconceived notions.

So, let's have it then, what's number 5 going to be?

Actually you say miracle number 3 but you're going to mess up the flow of existing rebuttals in the series:


Let me just stop you there a sec because, indeed, some of your Muslim scholars believe the actual quote to be: "“Glory be to Him Who created all the sexual pairs, of that which the earth groweth, and of themselves, and of that which they know not!”

So, you know, this whole idea of your 'miraculous' book kinda falls apart if it can't even communicate sufficiently to be unambiguous in definition.

But, anyhoo, let's look at this next bit, right alongside that discarded crowbar you left behind:

Do you even see what you are guilty of there? Taking something rather vague which was said previously and deciding that it *must* refer to something specific known in the present. That's the same technique 'astrologers' and other scammers use.

The scientific Theory of Gravity is a whole lot different from the general understanding that stuff doesn't stay up in the air on its own.

Now you are just being willful again. No, you are not right, you have simply decided you are right and then repeated your assumption that only long after that quote was written did mankind figure out that it was *real* hard to get stuff to go up into the sky and stay there.

In actual fact, long *before* that quote, man would have tried flinging stuff up into the sky, only to see it fall back down again. It doesn't take education, only testing by doing, to show that the more force you put behind the throw, the further it went, but it never seemed to go far enough to get up into 'the heavens'. So, eventually, even the most dim-witted of bronze-age goat-herders would have understood that fact, way before that 'miraculous' quote appeared.

No school studying needed. Cavemen would have had a go at throwing rocks up to the Moon and they, too, would have figured it clearly was going to take far more force to get a stone up there than they had.

No miracle. Pointing out the obvious is not miraculous.

Even a child could tell you that it takes an enormous amount of force to get into space. Simply by trying to throw a rock up to the moon, something as infantile as that, would result in acknowledging that the only way to make your stone go far enough would require a tremendous amount of force, far beyond that which you can give it.

See? A child's logic would come up with with the same thing. What's so miraculous about that?

I don't respect opinion that is doggedly maintained in the face of objectively reasoned facts which contradict said opinion.

I also don't respect intellectual dishonesty or logical fallacies.

You will see that I generally challenge the content of the post, not the poster, except when the poster continues to ignore the facts they are being presented with and simply repeats the same fallacious reasoning they started the discussion with.

@Zakir, by the way, don't think we can't see how you keep trying to avoid the facts of the posts concerned so you can complain about how they are being reposted.

Pro-tip: Try actually responding to the content of the challenge to your claims, instead of pretending like you already did.

I'd hazard a guess that Mo wasn't quite so enlightened. According to reports he, metaphorically speaking, crapped his pants when he experienced a Solar eclipse.

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, they are not entitled to their own facts.

If you start a thread titled, "Miracles of Quran", expect to be asked to objectively prove your claim. Otherwise you're just demanding we all stfu and listen to the bullshit 'wisdom' being spouted by the delusional and intellectually dishonest.

@funktrust While you're answering the questions about which entity, UK or HK, owns the other (because one of them has to), please be so kind as to explain this edit of your, "We haz inshooranz" claim:


Your 'Vault' will provide insurance?

Care to expand on that vague assertion?

FFS, please decide whether you want to play your 'miracle' cards as "amazing science facts nobody could have known about at the time" and "Hey, lighten up, it's just a metaphor, it has meaning and depth and . . .[insert equally vapid nonsense here]"

You can't have it both ways. Either you are presenting 'miracles' of there being scientifically-sound assertions within that book or you're wanting to discuss metaphors and poetry, which isn't the topic of this thread.

Do you know what intellectual integrity means? Serious question.

I'm not twisting anything, the phrase "It isn't permitted" implies that permission is not given for something, would you at least agree with that so far? In that you claim that the author of your books says your god did not give permission for the Sun to catch up with the moon, would that not be as asinine as me not giving you permission to float up into the air?

Which part of that quote suggests anything other than ignorance about our Solar System?

You, as most theists tend to do, are the one cherry-picking small quotes (bad ones at that) and attributing meaning to them they simply do not possess and, when taken in the wider context of the surrounding text, generally prove that the book is full of much ignorance and woo.


I don't know how you suggest this is even meaningful. Is this meant to be another 'miracle' or are you still hacking away at the dead horse of the Sun/Moon absurdity?

You are asserting something you have yet to provide evidence for. Some hotels might be better built than SOME mosques but, in general, especially in poverty-stricken areas, the local mosque is built of top quality stone and marble because, you know, god n'all.

For your assertion that an equally-strong hotel was destroyed near the still-surviving mosque, please circle within that picture where the hotel once stood. We should at least get an idea of the type of building material the hotel was constructed with.

I'm betting it wasn't solid stone and marble.

Built to the same top-quality standard that the neighbourhood mosque would be? Prove it.

Oh, ok, you're just sticking with "I know you are, but what am I?" level of infantile response.

Thanks for the debate about how great your book is. You managed to prove without doubt that it isn't by way of your failure to rebut any of the objectively reasoned challenges made towards your 'miracles'.

There's no reason to suspect it is photoshopped, simply understanding basic science would explain why the MOST SOLIDLY built structure in the vicinity managed to survive while those NOT BUILT TO THE SAME STANDARD as the mosque, were swept away.

Stop being so dishonest. You know damn well that to claim the Sun is not PERMITTED to do something is to imply that it may otherwise attempt to.

I forbid you to float up into the air! There, you are not permitted to float up into the air. Does that make me somehow the being responsible for you not being able to float up into the air?