I’m not sure, but how much natural gas the Russia export today?
If you're not sure about things why don't you check them before making claims and arguing with me?  But do you truly know? Because you would know that most of European homes would be freezing if Russia shut the pipes.  That’s another debate. North Korea, and Iran’s economic problems won’t be solved by Bitcoin. Wealth begets wealth, I am merely presenting a debate of Bitcoin as a protocol.
No, it's not another debate. I've asked you why bitcoin can't help those countries get rid of all the sanctions for so many years. Truth is that bitcoin is used simply as an alternative payment gateway to poeple who would really want to deal with them, and those people sealed with N Korea under sanctions even before bitcoin, their problem is the source and quantity. Proof that doesn't work. But it does work. Bitcoin as a protocol can literally be used today to bypass SWIFT. If Russia and China implemented a platform using Bitcoin as the settlement layer to deal with Iran and North Korea, it would be censorship-resistant. You don’t believe Bitcoin is censorship-resistant? As a protocol/network, you don’t believe that Bitcoin is effective for censorship-resistance and regulatory circumvention? It has been proven through its ultility in the dark markets.
Seriously? Are we really comparing a guy sending a parcel to a stranger, one in billion with a factory full of workers, with a lot of needs of equipment, raw materials, fuel that needs to send containers after containers, cook the books about who bought them and then ship under the radar thousands of gear part or motors or electronics? You can sell a cookie to your neighbor for bitcoin and the state will never know, but try to send 10 000 of them to Pyongyang, see if it works, search for buyers on Alphabay. Oh wait..  If Russia and China built a platform that uses Bitcoin as the settlement layer, and they traded with North Korea and Iran, to buy oil, or I don’t know, maybe nuclear warheads, how can transactions be censored? It won’t be the West who deals with North Korea, but whatever country it is, it can’t use SWIFT. But an alternative? You refuse to see the huge problem in front of you, finding a guy that would sell you something when we talk at country size level resources is a billion harder than sending a payment. Bitcoin can be used exceptionally well for personal finances, personal payments, as you can Blend in with billions, the moment you try to use it for huge size deals you need the find a solution for the real life covering of all this, and this is something bitcoin can't do and it wasn't ever supposed to do. It is my belief that Bitcoin’s underlying nature in geo-politics and its ability in weakening political strongholds has not been discovered yet. You might disagree, but in 20 years? Bitcoin is no mere protocol for personal finances. |
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I don't think anything will change fundamentally if central banks issue their own cryptocurrency. The end user does not care how they transfer or receive dollars or other currency. If you are a bank customer, then you have already given them your documents and gone through the KYC process. And to use CBDC, it would probably be enough to be a bank customer.
It would require your CBDC wallet to go through KYC, and this doesn’t work like fiat-cash/paper money. Cash/paper money, anyone can receive and spend it, no one can monitor it if I buy Heroine, pay for sex, or gamble with friends. CBDC is used through a centralized network that is monitored, with your identity exposed, and all your transactions known to the government/central bank. If they decide they don’t like where you spend your money, you can be censored, or cancelled. If this becomes the presiding form of fiat-money, how much more valuable will Bitcoin’s main value-proposition/narrative become? Any online banking involves all of the things you describe. When you shop with your visa or mastercard, banks and the government, represented by the financial regulator, can easily track all your transactions. So I don't really understand the difference between CBDC and regular online payments. In both, you are a customer of a bank with KYC. Or am I missing something besides the fact that CBDC is on a blockchain? You’re missing something in that with banks you will have some consumer protection, you can withdraw cash from your account, and the Central Banks/Federal Reserve don’t have direct access to your account. In a CBDC network, your money isn’t truly your money, which would also increase the value/demand for a cash/paper money narrative. |
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But the network/blockchain where the NFT resides is also the most important if you ask me. I believe in 15 - 20 years there will just be 3 to 5 blockchains that exists, and Bitcoin remaining at the center like the Sun of a solar system, still chugging along.
I seriously doubt it. The idea of "penny stocks" is perfected in cryptocurrency world because it is so much easier and cheaper to create altcoins/tokens than it is to start a penny stock and sell it. There is also the benefit of anonymity so things like scams and money laundering will continue happening in altcoin market. Hence we will continue seeing the altcoins grow in number and in 15-20 years we may have more than a million worthless altcoins. You have a point, but it’s “blockchains”, not altcoins. I believe all “penny-shitcoins” will be generated in the remaining 3 - 5 remaing blockchains instead of boot-strapping their own networks. It’s currently happening since 2017, some of the earliest were before that. |
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It doesn’t matter if there’s no value in it for you, what matters is it has value for it in the market. Good point. Live and let others live. Speak up if you notice something is off and smells like a scam, advise and correct, but don't be like Steam. But the network/blockchain where the NFT resides is also the most important if you ask me. I believe in 15 - 20 years there will just be 3 to 5 blockchains that exists, and Bitcoin remaining at the center like the Sun of a solar system, still chugging along. |
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I don't think anything will change fundamentally if central banks issue their own cryptocurrency. The end user does not care how they transfer or receive dollars or other currency. If you are a bank customer, then you have already given them your documents and gone through the KYC process. And to use CBDC, it would probably be enough to be a bank customer.
It would require your CBDC wallet to go through KYC, and this doesn’t work like fiat-cash/paper money. Cash/paper money, anyone can receive and spend it, no one can monitor it if I buy Heroine, pay for sex, or gamble with friends. CBDC is used through a centralized network that is monitored, with your identity exposed, and all your transactions known to the government/central bank. If they decide they don’t like where you spend your money, you can be censored, or cancelled. If this becomes the presiding form of fiat-money, how much more valuable will Bitcoin’s main value-proposition/narrative become? |
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That’s for another topic, and it is not as simple as “the West will stop dealing with Russia”. That’s laughable, Europe wants they’re heating during the winter, don’t they? How much gas was Russia exporting to Europe before 2000? Were we freezing to death each winter at that point? You know Yamal was fully functional in 2006, right? Europe has the money to find alternatives, Russia doesn't have enough cloning chambers to create overnight 400 million poeple who would buy that gas from them. I’m not sure, but how much natural gas the Russia export today? Plus would you truly believe for Russia to be so useless to Western Europe, that they will simply sanction them? But the point is, if Russia and China are banned from using SWIFT, what can they do? The narrative for a censorship-resistant protocol for money, or a settlement layer has only become more obvious.
The point is that if an alternative would be true that useful and it would bypass SWIFT North Korea would have used it to buy some damn tractors instead of still doing plowing with horses. But as you can see the alternative to SWIFT is not helping North Korea, is not helping Iran, and is not going to help Russia either. That’s another debate. North Korea, and Iran’s economic problems won’t be solved by Bitcoin. Wealth begets wealth, I am merely presenting a debate of Bitcoin as a protocol.
Usually, when you think something is definitely effective and can be viewed as an alternative you have at least an example of it working like that but of course, you've got none.
As a protocol/network, you don’t believe that Bitcoin is effective for censorship-resistance and regulatory circumvention? It has been proven through its ultility in the dark markets.
As for censorship-resistant, haven't you learned anything from what happened in Canada?
CoinJoins, and mixers will fix it ser.
A western company might try to deal with North Korea in Bitcoin but when the state finds that out it can shut it down and seize every single container or package, just like with the exchange to fiat, you don't just need a censorship-resistant currency you need censorship resistant companies, factories, trucks, and ships.
This is reality, and in this reality, things work differently than you imagine.
It won’t be the West who deals with North Korea, but whatever country it is, it can’t use SWIFT. But an alternative? |
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I believe it will overtake Gold as a preferred asset to HODL in the treasury of the Super Powers. I believe it will start with Russia, Iran, then China with North Korea. The United States, Asia and Western Europe, as a response will HODL Bitcoin too, and allow mining in their countries.
That's what I'm looking forward to as bitcoin have 21million+ over all supply only and imagine if all people of the world will adopt it so we can expect the price burst if the demand will go up together with major wide spread of adoption. First world countries you mentioned are already now into cryptocurrency and some major super powers are now adopting or thinking about legalization of bitcoin. So no wonder all price soar high prediction will come true in future. I believe Bitcoin has reached near the top of adoption for ordinary people/users, and corporations/institutions have started adopting it. It’s going to be ready for the next phase of adoption. NATION-STATES, bringing out the true nature of Bitcoin in international politics/geo-politics, which can weaken a rival’s dominance. |
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If governments are confident the vaccines are effective, why do they have to demand sanitary passports from workers to maintain their jobs and access to their territories? Theoretically only those who denied the vaccine are going to be prejudiced, so let them live accordingly to what they believe, consequently suffering the results of their personal choices.
On the other hand, trucks' drivers can't stop and sabotage the economy of a country where majority parcel of the population endorses the vaccination (80% are vaccinated). Furthermore, it's not positive for bitcoin the fact it's being used to sponsor these protests. OP mentioned 21 bitcoins were collected. That is a lot of money! Who would be interested in funding these activities with so large amounts of money which will indeed prejudice Canada's economy?
These protests seem to have nothing to do with "freedom", it's just another political agenda being pushed up making using of bitcoin and crypto in general as tool for its shady purposes in pursuit for political power and supremacy.
I think that sanitary passports are a kind of proof to show that you have been vaccinated already. That way they can determine if who are not yet vaccinated. Not only in the Canada but this issue are also common to many other countries. They mandate the vaccine now but many people are against with it because they are also scared. They are not “scared” of the vaccine. They are concerned because vaccine mandates are unconstitutional. What right does the government have to tell its citizens where, and where not to go because someone did, or didn’t take a vaccine? But fake vaccine passports available to buy for Bitcoin will fix this.
Anyway, some of us still thinks that this news in Canada where btc is involved are positive and can bring a good impact on the btc economy. Also some of us believe that there is a freedom involved here, that is again with the help of btc because donation can now went thru and government cannot do anything to stop it.
It can bring good impact by being an alternative to the legacy banking system, but it will not be easy. |
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Haha. Posted by Justin Trudeau during 2012. He should be supporting those truckers if he truly believed that. Plus there are probably many people in the forum who are anti-freedom, without knowing that they are anti-freedom. This is very strange behavior for Bitcoiners to support a government that freezes the people’s assets without judicial consent. |
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I believe it will overtake Gold as a preferred asset to HODL in the treasury of the Super Powers. I believe it will start with Russia, Iran, then China with North Korea. The United States, Asia and Western Europe, as a response will HODL Bitcoin too, and allow mining in their countries.
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If Russia starts mining Bitcoin, China will start mining Bitcoin again too, or did China truly “ban mining” within their country? The West have given warnings that they will ban Russia from using SWIFT, what does everyone believe Russia will do? They have made the narrative more obvious for a need of an open, permissionless, censorship-resistant, ledger/protocol for money.
And if the west doesn't want to deal with Russia? You realize right now Russia would be just like a shop accepting Visa, Paypal, Monero, and Bitcoin, they can add used panties and discarded diapers as payment options if poeple DON'T want to deal with you they will not! Simple as this! That’s for another topic, and it is not as simple as “the West will stop dealing with Russia”. That’s laughable, Europe wants they’re heating during the winter, don’t they? But the point is, if Russia and China are banned from using SWIFT, what can they do? The narrative for a censorship-resistant protocol for money, or a settlement layer has only become more obvious. |
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But human nature seems to suggest they'll have to have a bad experience first before they consider other alternatives to what the government are pushing.
the whole media narrative that chinese government controls all currency, are watching everything, everyone has to use one system.. is FALSE.. For the record, my comments aren't specific to China. They just happen to be the ones on track to roll out their CBDC first. I suspect all governments, if they get on board with the switch to digital money, will look for ways to pressure people into using it. It’s WHEN they get on board, and make everyone to switch to CBDC. A central entity that can track, and control where “your” money can be spent, is not truly your money. Money has to be useful for Mr. Heroine Dealer to be truly good, hard money. |
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The nocoiners’ narrative of the month. “White Power”. Haha.  It’s true that Bitcoin can be used for nefarious reasons, but that’s because Bitcoin is convenient for entities that can’t use, or who are banned from using the legacy banking system. It is working as designed. That’s bullish. Buy the DIP, and? |
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The best post about CBDC  https://twitter.com/Bitcoin/status/1493808277771022336" The prime purpose for which elites want CBDCs is so they can turn your money off." Many countries invest huge budgets in these projects. What needs to be done so that people refuse the services of banks? That truly is the absolute point. If only an anonymous developer built a robust, resilient protocol for a decentralized, censorship-resistant, permissionless cryptocurrency. I believe that would be a very very valuable form of money. |
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*attempted goading into topic derailment*
Nice try. Take your butthurt to another thread plz. Preferably the one that was created for your benefit. You know full well that conversation doesn't belong here. Put him in your ignore list. I put him in mine after reading that debate topic. What a charlatan, he’s merely another anti-Bitcoin troll who simply wants to spread lies, and disinformation for the newbie-readers. I will give him my precious time if I am only in the mood to troll the troll. |
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This message is for everyone, especially newbies. There are anti-Bitcoin trolls in the forum who will make long posts, debating other people by using strawmen, disinformation, and gaslighting. The fact is, Bitcoin is a solution to the problem that if banks refuse giving you their service, you can use Bitcoin. There’s a need that Bitcoin fills. If the truckers can’t accept donations through centralized services, then what’s the next most efficient way to accept them without fear of being censored? Bitcoin is one of them. FACT.
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The real problem here is that the protesters are asking for funding. I have nothing against their protest. This is their civil right, but saying something like "give us money,so we could protest" is kinda weird to me.If you really want to protest, you could protest without asking for donations.
What’s wrong in asking for support? Are truckers scamming people? Did they get the money without doing anything? Is this illegal?
Anyway,having a centralized entity, that can redistribute all the funding to the people,who need that money is a must (unfortunately). That's why charity foundations exist. It's theoretically possible for all protesters to just gather a huge list of their own BTC addresses and post them online to collect donations,but what's the guarantee that some fraudster won't add his address to the list?
Charity is always about trust, it's not about the money. Trust is still required, even if Bitcoin replaces fiat money in these charity campaigns.
That’s another debate, but the point in using Bitcoin is because the government and the banksters have no control over Bitcoin, and therefore can’t simply lock and take the money from the truckers. |
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A CBDC will boost rather than diminish the popularity and use case of bitcoin, as people quickly realize that the CBDC can have its supply inflated at will to serve monetary goals, whereas bitcoin has a finite supply and can never be inflated arbitrarily. With widespread use of CBDCs, users would feel more comfortable buying or investing in decentralized cryptocurrencies - thus increasing their value over time.
Bitcoin wins with the growth of CBDCs.
Partly that. But the absolute biggest reason why is CBDC users can be censored/prevented from making transactions, wallets can be locked, savers of CBDC don’t truly control the money in their wallet, and therefore anything in their wallets is NOT truly owned by them. |
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Thought so... So how can you know when you've reached a low point? Is this the lowest point in our history?
You will never know, and no one actually knows. We the plebs, and the poors can “only try” to find the DIP, but it’s important that we try than buying blindly at any price.
You may think it's impossible that bitcoin will ever return to these prices, but people who waited for a dip at 1400 had the same idea, and the price went down a lot and they waited for it to go down even more, and when it started to go back up they waited for it to go back down, but the price only kept going up and never saw those numbers again.
So, purchasing every dip is a fantastic idea, but it's not something you can easily do yourself without knowing when you're at the dip, implementation is more difficult than the advice. On the surface, I agree with the concept, however, I've had several failures with implementation.
My advice, find a job, and save. If you have a job, find a second job, and save more. Use that to buy every Bitcoin DIPs, but it’s your choice. You can buy now, or you can buy during the next bear cycle, which I believe will start either this year or the next year if past cycle patterns are to be followed. |
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If Russia starts mining Bitcoin, China will start mining Bitcoin again too, or did China truly “ban mining” within their country? The West have given warnings that they will ban Russia from using SWIFT, what does everyone believe Russia will do? They have made the narrative more obvious for a need of an open, permissionless, censorship-resistant, ledger/protocol for money.
Well, Russia has never banned crypto mining, only the focus of the miners has been on China, logically because of cheap energy, labor, and the availability of mining devices. I see that you still have a theory that China has no choice but to have to allow crypto mining again just because the Russians or the US will do it - but they do it all the time. China and Russia are among the last countries in the world to accept Bitcoin the way you imagine it, China has said a clear NO, Russia is closer to that attitude than to something positive. I’m not pointing out about “bans, and regulations”. I’m talking about absolute acceptance, publicly or secretly, and an actual nation-state mining Bitcoin for the benefit of themselves, directly or indirectly. Because I believe Bitcoin’s true nature in international politics/geo-politics has not been truly discovered yet, nor has that been priced in. |
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