Keep enough cash around for your needs and in the case of an emergency, however the rest of your money should always be invested in something that can outpace inflation, right now paper assets are still performing well, so it is fine to hold stocks and other similar instruments.

However when a crisis really strikes paper assets have the tendency to do the worst as people are looking for a safe haven that can preserve the value of their money, and in that case assets like bitcoin or gold will be in high demand, and with this in mind then it is better to invest in bitcoin right now before its price goes up even more.

I have studied finance at university and I can say and inflation affects all financial assets. Especially the stock market. Only real estate(besides Bitcoin) can provide enough protection against inflation,which means that the real price growth minus the nominal price growth(caused by inflation) cannot become negative. Real estate assets cannot get devalued due to the inflation. Stocks can get devalued and government/treasury bonds can also get devalued by inflation.

It is pretty clear that the Federal Reserve money printing boosted the S&P 500 index a lot,during the last decades. Traditional financial markets are a giant bubble. Crypto markets are a giant bubble as well,thanks to the money printing made by the central banks.

There will be no jeering on my watch. I think you misunderstand me, I have a conscience.

When BTC collapses the people that get hurt will be the many bag holding retail investors that were deceived. Which vastly outnumbers those with malicious intent to deceive who will likely walk way with a stack of profit.

It happens all the time on Wall St. but BTC is different right?

Right now bitcoin is testing the $47K price level and the price decline is almost around 3.82% on this day alone, in my opinion actually the decline that occurred today we should be able to take advantage of by buying bitcoin before the rebound occurs again later, in addition to bitcoin some prices Other cryptos are also having quite a sharp bearish like ethereum which is down almost 5.5% on this day alone, I think now is a good time to get into the market, buy and hold.

This is always said by so many people, "Buy the dip and HODL.".  But there is a truth also like it is really hard to know what level is the dip. Sometimes, we think a specific price as a dip level and buy from it. But after some time, the price goes down even more and the level we bought turns out not to be the dip. Or we can look at this from an aspect like there are multiple dip levels and we could at least catch one of them.

Gloating is not becoming of a gentleman wannabe.

Oh wait.

Regarding your retest of $35k proposition, hopefully you are not failing or refusing to buy or disinclined to sufficiently and adequately prepare for UP based on such a seeming hope that may or may not happen.

I am not sure if I need to repeat that one of the BIGGEST errors in respect to bitcoin is failure/refusal to adequately and sufficiently prepare for UP.. so you can do all you like to prepare, hope or even wait for down, and if you get too greedy then you may well be in a much worse position than to just buy on a regular basis or to buy on the dip that you have in front of you rather than waiting for more dip.

Another thing is still having some fiat available.. just in case there is more down. I am not against attempting to prepare for down.. because surely many of us feel better to be able to buy some BTC on the way down rather than running out of money.. so surely there is that angle that exists as well... a kind of balancing to sufficiently and adequately prepare for UP while at the same time maintaining some kind of a system to buy on dips on the way down while not running out of money.. not an easy thing to strike such balance and seems to not be very good thing to make fun of people who may have already run out of money to pick up some more BTC (surely there are some of those guys in existence as well).

Oh my!!!  Holy shit!!!

Do you even believe that a 30% dip (that would be down to around $46k.. which surely would not be the end of the world, for sure) is within reasonable expectations?  I appreciate that you, Wind_FURY, seem to be just throwing that out there as an extreme.. so probably you are not really considering a 30% drop to be too likely.. but it is within the realm of extreme possibilities.. .. in any event.. even the proposition of a 30% drop got my hackles up..

Because the Bitcoin "sidechains" like Sovryn and Stacks has their own token; and the vocal Bitcoin maximalists aren't fan of such tokens. Or the more likely reason: maybe Ross Ulbricht and etc just prefer to run the NFT auction on a chain that people actually use for NFTs — Ethereum. It just makes more sense if the goal was to actually pool money.

dec 7 is coming who will be the winner. we are at 56430 right now.

I thought that our initial seemingly semantical quibble was about whether putting value into bitcoin would be considered as "investing," and since you seemed to be battling with the use of such a label upon what you believe that you are doing, I ended up ranting on the idea of what is investing versus what else you might be doing if you considered your approach to bitcoin to NOT be "investing."

I cannot disagree with the suggestion that both value appreciation and censorship resistance are ongoing bitcoin features and each of them (as well as both) can contributed towards motivations to "invest" into bitcoin or to continue to hold some portion of your overall investment portfolio in bitcoin.

oh gawd...  

Wrong.

You trying to act like some kind of a soothsayer.

Of course, in retrospect we can see that BTC prices had gone down in November/December 2018 from about $6k to almost $3k, and then largely got stuck in the $3,500-ish to $4,200-ish arena until late March 2019.

So yes on about April 1, 2019 BTC prices broke above $4,200 and largely entered into a 3 month UPpity journey to reach $13,800 by the end of July without any significant price correction during that time.

Surely, there was some kind of trepidation during late 2018 and early 2019 regarding whether the $3,124 bottom of December 17, 2018 was in.. so no one really knew that bitcoin was going to rip UPpity.. or to have further corrections, and surely there were quite a few people still anticipating or predicting  that the $3,124 bottom was not in and that supposedly bitcoin needed to test sub $2k prices and even sub $1,500 prices (which would have largely been revisiting the price arena of our 2013 top).

Retrospectively you can suggest that you had some level of confidence regarding what to do but largely you are talking nonsense to the extent that a buying the dip strategy was any more advantageous or knowable at that time as compared with any other time... or that you were supposedly somehow smarter than everyone else at that time.  I would suggest that with bitcoin the combination of DCA, lump sum investing and buying the dip are evergreen practices in bitcoinlandia and except maybe having some probabilistically informed ideas about waves, we largely should not be fucking around with either trying to time the market or trying to know where the BTC price is going in the short-term except maybe on the margin so our short-term strategies can largely be merely tweaked from time to time rather than making any kinds of drastic changes because bitcoin seems to continue to be quite decent asymmetric bet.... and yeah, if we are just consistently accumulating BTC with a combination of strategies (DCA, lump sum investing and buying on dip) then we are likely to continue to do well in the long term.. even if it might take a while to build our BTC stash.. depending on if we might have a decent amount of capital to inject upfront.

We are repeating our lil selfies here.

You can fuck around all that you like with your own holdings and BTC strategies... so when it comes to BTC accumulation normies are likely going to be best served by considering the combination of strategies that prioritize DCA but also consider the use of lump sum investing (to the extent that they have upfront capital) and buying on dips (to the extent that they ongoingly want to hold some of their fiat on the side to be prepared to buy on dips when they inevitably happen).  I doubt that I need to repeat more in regards to my never having had said that DCA should be the ONLY strategy, but if there was a need to pick ONLY one strategy then DCA is the best of the three.. especially for a newbie who might otherwise be confused about what to do and does not want to try to fuck around with anticipating whether a dip has happened or not or how much of a dip, how long the dip might last and all that baloney... so if the DCA buyer has at least a 4 year to 10 year timeline, then it likely is not going to matter too much if s/he might have been able to accumulate a few more sats here and there along the way.. and surely something like $10 per week might be a fairly whimpy strategy (but it is better than nothing), and something like $100 per week would be more aggressive for folks who are ready, willing and able to be aggressive in their DCA'ing.

Of course, we could get into individual particulars, but surely anyone who is quite new to bitcoin might well need to study bitcoin while determining how they feel financially and/or psychologically regarding their level of aggressiveness.. so right off the bat, if they are feeling somewhat hesitant, they might want to start with $10 per week as they study the matter, and if they end up learning more and increasing their confidence levels they may well want to increase their invested amount to $100 or more per week.. and surely incorporating lump sum investing and some strategies regarding buying on dips... after they have become more comfortable.

Again, of course, we can look at historical DCA levels to determine if such DCA strategies could have been beat or if we might have had more insight than just sticking with some of the purity...   Whether we look at your forum registration date of May 2016 or my own BTC investing starting date of November/December 2013, and we can see that $10 per week would have put us at $55.5k (nearly 1 BTC) (18.15x appreciation) and $269.5k (nearly 4.6 BTC) (63.5x appreciation) respectively, and of course, we can multiply those same numbers by 10 if we want to assess how a $100 per week DCA strategy would have performed to have been at $555k (nearly 10 BTC) and $2.695 million (nearly 46 BTC) respectively....

Sure, there are ways to fuck around and to end up beating those kinds of results, but do any normies have time for that or to be taking chances with various gambling strategies?

So in essence, I see no reason to be poo-pooing DCA strategy as if it were not smart enough... because it remains the best of the foundational BTC accumulation strategies historically (and likely to continue to be), and sure play around with timing with part of your income or value but you are not too likely to be outperforming DCA, even if you feel that you have the luxury to play around with some of your value (even if you consider your luxury to be a necessity.. which it is not... DCA is a poor and ignorant man strategy that applies to everyone (which is the vast majority of peeps and has almost nothing to do with size) until they become more informed and sophisticated.. and to the extent that you feel your lil selfie to be more informed and sophisticated, then you can fuck around with an incorporate more sophisticated strategies - hopefully supplementing DCA but if you want to skip DCA all together because you believe that it is inferior or it is below you, then that is on you.. but still does not mean that what you are doing is superior to DCA... and including DCA as a foundational strategy that can be supplemented).

By the way, I will admit that when I came into BTC in late 2013, I had already established an overall decently large investment portfolio, so I did have lump sum investment funds that were available to me right from the start, so in that sense, I could take from my overall investment portfolio and to allocate into bitcoin.  But merely the fact that I had the lump sum amounts would not necessarily mean that I should immediately go straight into bitcoin with the portion that I ended up allocating (which was 10%).  When I first came to bitcoin I hardly had any clue regarding how much I was going to want to put into bitcoin in the longer run.. so my initial investment timeline was only 1-2 years.. and I had allocated an initial sum that I would invest over the next 6 months.. so with that initial sum, I divided it up into 26 parts (weekly) and I DCA'd with part of it and tried to buy on dips with the remainder for each week.. but in essence I was spending the whole budgeted amount per week over each of the 26 weeks.  Of course, I had pretty decent confidence of various budget sources that I would have and when approaching the end of the first 26 weeks, I ended up extending another 26 weeks with a similar budget. and by close to the end of the second 26 weeks, I started to get some better grasps regarding the extent that I wanted to be in bitcoin and continued to study what I wanted to do in terms of allocation.. which I determined to be 10% at the end of the second 26 weeks and not at the beginning of my investment into BTC or even after I had been in BTC for a while.. I worked out some of those things through my first year of investing into bitcoin by getting to both know myself better and to know my views about BTC better.

As you suggested that I had been some kind of lucky fuck to have had a BIGGER budget or whatever, but even though I do admit that I had a budget from the start of my BTC investment, I still ended up mostly following a kind of hybrid DCA strategy in which I had engaged in some attempts to frontload my investment into BTC because I wanted to feel that I had a sufficient stake into BTC, but it still took me about a year before I started to feel that I had a decent stake in BTC.. and after the first year I could still relax.. and upon reflection even though I had always tried to NOT be too emotional about my BTC investment or the strategies that I employed.. I do feel that I became much more relaxed about my BTC investment once it started to go significantly into profits..so even then I am not sure that I was preoccupied with amounts because I had already established me stake within the first year but still there continued to be some gnawing aspect that allowed me to become more and more relaxed as my BTC holdings went more and more in profits.. while not really taking away my ability to relate to many others who might not have lump sums that they can invest but instead rely upon DCAing into BTC over several years (maybe even a whole 4 year cycle or longer) before they might start to feel some comfort levels with their BTC holdings  and like you said they may well be able to supplement their DCAing strategy with both lump sum investing and buying on dips along the way (even though you personally seem to want to skip the most important of the investment strategies, which is the DCA portion).

For exchanges, I assume their business model requires free deposits and expensive withdrawals. That discourages people from taking their funds out of the website. For casinos, I kinda just assume the same! Why have someone withdraw 50,000 sat in LN if you can make him gamble more to reach the minimum on-chain withdrawal amount and pay a much higher withdrawal fee?
Fast and cheap withdrawals simply aren't in the interest of many businesses.

Or maybe I'm just wrong here, because cheap and fast deposits would totally be in their interest. It would be very nice if some casino owners can chip in on their reasoning

I don't know, I don't count the people I talk to. I suspect that most of the ChipMixer participants use the lightning network.

From those I talk, yeah. They do use the lightning network.

post #1044.


Is it just me who has never bought a single shitcoin? Not just for purchasing something. Generally, to just have it.

It's much faster and cheaper than any other shitcoin. Transaction routing takes bunch of seconds. As for the cost of transaction, it's ridiculously cheap.

Do you have anything to back these statements? Arguments and / or sources?

As part of everyone, I confess that it's been a long time since I made an on-chain transaction for purchasing something. I only purchase lightning-ly. So, I question your statement. I'd actually say that lots are already using the lightning network for payments, even if it doesn't cost that much to pay on-chain. It's cheaper, faster and more convenient.

Well like you mentioned, you can call what you are doing what you would like to call it.  You can also establish whatever timeline that you would like, which would also influence your thinking about the matter and your approach  If you are into bitcoin for possible value appreciation or you believe that bitcoin gives you choices/options that you might not otherwise have, then those are your own choices regarding framing of the matter, too.

Of course getting into bitcoin does seem to provide a lot more options, and with the passage of time, part of the seeming value proposition of bitcoin continues to be that its likelihood of down or going to zero becomes less and less the longer that it is in existence - but as an individual, even if you create a 1, 2, 4, 10 year or longer timeline for yourself to be into bitcoin, you have the power to override your earlier decision, change your mind abandon the investment or whatever you would like to do.  

So, yes surely one of the reasons to be into bitcoin would be seeming to have more options, and of course, the better that you play your investment into bitcoin, the seeming likelihood that your options will expand even more.. so part of the reason that I had emphasized the longer term way of attempting to consider the matter - even though surely people are free to just consider bitcoin in some kind of a shorter-term time frame - but seems to me that even the premise of the title of this thread (even though you might not have even been clear about some of the underlying implications upon the creation of the thread) is that it considers bitcoin in a kind of  longer time frame.. that is why you at least used the term "HODL" within the title.

At some point weren't you even considering changing the title of the thread to something more specific and weird that would try to particularize what you individually think about when and how to buy on dips and maybe not always to buy on dips or some other nonsense like that - because 1) you seemed to be trying to get away from my ongoing refrain about the preferability of DCA in terms of when it doubt buy rather then getting caught up about how much of a dip and if the dip is maximized and all those kinds of difficult to actually carry out in practices, and 2) you were worried that sometimes buying on dips could cause the running out of money if buying too soon - especially if we were to prematurely go into a bear market?

Furthermore, you were also going through a kind of adamant and stubborn phase of NOT wanting to tell newbies to buy BTC or to even go so far as to tell them not to buy (was that occurring for most of 2021, and maybe even ramped up in the May/June/July time... and I am not even saying that you had not been doing that at various times in 2020 too), which I also spent a lot of time battling those kinds of emphasis on HODL and wait ideas, including my considerations that it was advise that was probably more hurtful rather than helpful... and our subsequent BTC price performance has largely been showing that ongoing buying of BTC probably remains as the best of strategies, even if psychologically it can feel better to have some supplemental strategies to attempt to buy on dips, too... and then just HODL when running out of money.. which also can sometimes happen.. and even no matter how long any of us are into BTC, it is ongoingly difficult to know exactly what mistakes people are going to make or even the reality of the difficulties to both determine the extent of any dip or how long such dips are going to last... even if there are a variety of structural ways that people (even newbies) can attempt to plan in advance so that they are not too likely to run out of money for buying, even if the BTC price dips lower than expected and longer than expected.

Watch John Bogle’s advice in how to invest in stocks and equities, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=doKsy4itiRE

John Bogle was a HODLer-type, and was the founder of The Vanguard Group.

It’s obviously very applicable in Bitcoin’s HODL-style investing, and he also addressed and encourged a dollar-cost-averaging strategy. BUT, he also said that an investor should “get in right in the first place”. Is the current market the right time to enter? I believe it’s an opportunity, but leave yourself more capital to average down because no one gets it in right unless you’re very lucky.

We are not talking about buying crypto here.. that would be dumb.

We are talking about buying bitcoin.

We are also not talking about selling...

So if you have some long term imagination or even enough a timeline that is 4-10 years into the future, ongoing buying is good and buying on dips is good to supplement your long term plans to accumulate BTC.. and maybe after 4- 10 years, you might reconsider if you still want to continue to buy or just hold or maybe consider if you might want to sell some.. later down the road.. not fucking around with short-term profits.. but hoping for longer term accumulation of a large enough BTC stash in order to feel like it was a good investment...

Yes, Lightning Network is likely going to increase the anon-set and thus help with Bitcoin's fungibility. I'm not sure if it would be a good thing though if LN became just one big decentralized tumbler. Not that I really see this happening.

El Salvador are pioneer and more nations will join the party. I think those nations will be part of a strategic game in which we might see some loopholes that we can not imagine of at the moment.

Do you think that with Bitcoin, cryptocurrency or CBDCs, someday a nation can wipe out their national debt with one click, after one night, something like this. It would be a chaotic situation and we don't know how far it will go and how it will be solved.

There are so many channels on YouTube that can help you learn how to thread cryptocurrency. You can check out channels like crypto Jack, and Brian Jung. These channels are really helpful and you’re going to learn a lot from these guys, they have a lot of videos quote up on their channels and I will advise you to check it out.

Moreover, it doesn’t just end there, you should also try to explore other things that there are, search for other channels and also do for research online for articles that are focused on teaching newbies how to thread cryptocurrency. All is going to take his time, and you shouldn’t stop learning and seeking for knowledge, as time goes on you will discover that you have become very perfect in trading cryptocurrency.