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321  Bitcoin / Hardware / Re: DragonMint 16TH/S halongmining.com on: April 10, 2018, 12:54:58 PM
In reference to the Innosilicon T1 16TH/s SHA256 miner...

Hmmm u dont find it too coincidental that all halong algos do not coincide with inno algos? There are 4 algos now on halong as it is. Halong has similar designs with inno and all their products do not compete with inno. I dont think there will ever be concrete evidence to confirm or deny this though. We can only speculate.

Just my 2 cents speculation



Moderator's note: This post was edited by frodocooper to trim the quote from eissug.
322  Bitcoin / Mining support / Re: Preventing rust on the Antminer S9 on: April 10, 2018, 01:20:33 AM
You are mistaken on how dehumidification works.

Hot warm air holds more moisture. As the air cools down moisture is released.

If you have been googling dehumidifier for industrial purposes. They pump hot air into a space and then exhaust it to take the moisture out of the plant. I work in a food processing plant and this is done at cleanup so the floor is dry and ready for production in the morning.

All this being said refrigeration or air conditioning dehumidifier a space as well. Again by lowering the temperatures. That's why most portable home AC units have a drain on them.

[...]

Oh yep, u are right. Hot air holds more moisture, not the other way around. It cools the air first to drain the moisture, and then it reheats the air.



Moderator's note: This post was edited by frodocooper to trim the quote from Steamtyme.
323  Bitcoin / Mining support / Re: Preventing rust on the Antminer S9 on: April 10, 2018, 12:40:46 AM
Desiccants are only viable in small ENCLOSED spaces, they do not soak much moisture from the air at all per unit of weight/volume.
Dehumidifiers do NOT heat up the air, every "mechanical" dehumidifier setup I've EVER seen was a specialized air conditioner and the air they put out of the "dehumidified" side was COOL to COLD.
There is NO condensation risk on the air out of the dehumidifier, there's pretty close to no moisture in there that CAN condense.

It won't take "dozens" of them to reduce humidity 1-2%, unless you are running MILLIONS of CFM airflow (hundreds of thousands of M^3/minute) and have 80%+ humidity air input - though it would get complicated a bit by the fact they would reduce your intake air temp some, they'd still be pulling SOME of the water out of the air so even if the RH didn't drop a lot the moisture content of the air WOULD which should reduce the rust issue.

Yep, desiccants are too weak.

Dehumidifiers do heat up the air. Do google it. It heats up the air to remove moisture. Hotter air cannot hold as much moisture as colder air. Thus, moisture is removed when air is heated.

Airflow is usually in the few hundreds per cfm. I think a typhoon is millions of cfm Smiley
A strong dehumidifier can do a few hundreds per cfm at most though. A smaller fan would remove air faster.



Moderator's note: This post was edited by frodocooper to remove multiple nested quotes.
324  Bitcoin / Pools / Re: BITMAIN announces Antpool on: April 10, 2018, 12:35:14 AM
Btw, is anyone having problems with antpool LTC pool?
325  Bitcoin / Pools / Re: BITMAIN announces Antpool on: April 08, 2018, 06:45:11 PM
Btw, do u think a program that automatically switches the S9 from a currently higher luck pool to a currently lower luck pool, would give some extra money?

You do understand that a pools luck can change in a fractions of a second right?  Its not a THING, it has no MEMORY, its 100.000000000% RANDOM LUCK.  The moment you change from an "unlucky" pool, it could find the next block.

Short answer:  no.

Yeah but in general it doesnt always do so. There is a wide gap of 70% gap for quite a few hours between last 10 blocks and last 50 blocks on slushpool now. It will go back to near 100% eventually.

Hmmm noted

Actually, it DOES do so.  The only way for a pool to go from a historical 70% luck back to average 100% luck is for it to run at over 100% luck for awhile.  e.g.  70% for 2 weeks + 130% for 2 weeks = 100% for 4 weeks; more or less.

What i mean is that it was at a 170% luck. So, changing your pool to another pool with below 80% luck, should mean u gain something because that currently high 170% lucky pool will not be so lucky next and the low 80% luck pool will gain some luck next.

I have read that some people do it manually. Not sure how well it works lol
326  Bitcoin / Pools / Re: BITMAIN announces Antpool on: April 08, 2018, 02:56:07 PM
Btw, do u think a program that automatically switches the S9 from a currently higher luck pool to a currently lower luck pool, would give some extra money?

You do understand that a pools luck can change in a fractions of a second right?  Its not a THING, it has no MEMORY, its 100.000000000% RANDOM LUCK.  The moment you change from an "unlucky" pool, it could find the next block.

Short answer:  no.

Yeah but in general it doesnt always do so. There is a wide gap of 70% gap for quite a few hours between last 10 blocks and last 50 blocks on slushpool now. It will go back to near 100% eventually.



Hmmm noted
327  Bitcoin / Mining / Re: My 700 TH/s Bitcoin Farm, LEH, J&K,INDIA on: April 07, 2018, 11:08:49 PM
Power is not that cheap in India its 0.06-0.10$
Salary is debatable so lets leave

Actually, that's not true. Power rates here are not uniform throughout the country. There are some states that have exceptionally dirt cheap rates. And they are also very suitable for a large-scale mining setup. If only the political atmosphere regarding cryptos were a little fairer, we would soon see large scale mining plants being set up in those states pretty soon.

I dont think india's infastructure can handle mining and I dont see why any government will want to subsidize electricity for miners.
328  Bitcoin / Pools / Re: BITMAIN announces Antpool on: April 07, 2018, 10:57:00 PM
[
I mean put 1 miner on another pool for a week or 2 just to test its returns against all your other miners in another pool.

Can do a comparison on returns then

Your missing my point:  All pools have random luck.  That luck averages out over a period of something like 250-1000 blocks to approximately 100% - as expected.   Using the optimistic  250 number, if your Slushpool and find a dozen blocks a day, that is 20 days.  If your Kano and find a block every couple of days, that is something like 500-750 days.

You CAN NOT compare returns over a period of a week or two and have a statistically valid result.

What you can do is run the math and figure out which will pay out better over a year or so.

U cant use it for kano as their variance is too high. I am aware of luck but I didnt know the amount of blocks slushpool gets,etc. I guess comparing antpool against slush over a month or another suitable period is better.

Btw, do u think a program that automatically switches the S9 from a currently higher luck pool to a currently lower luck pool, would give some extra money?
329  Bitcoin / Mining support / Re: Preventing rust on the Antminer S9 on: April 07, 2018, 10:47:09 PM

Those deciccents are far weaker than dehumidifiers and u have to get rid of the moisture they absorb by heating them later on. The moisture is released in the air when u heat them.

Yes they are not as effective as a dehumidifier, but OP did not feel a dehumidifier was the best for their setup.

The idea of the moisture being released into the air is the point I brough tup about "regenerating" the desiccant. When it becomes saturated you would move it to the "hot" side of the farm. Using the discharge air to remove moisture along with the heat. So the practicwe would be to have 2 or 3 sets of desiccant that can be swapped out as needed. This provides for a continuous cycle with no extra power consumption.

It's just an idea, I haven't needed it because I do not deal with that level of humidity.



You do NOT have to run your entire inlet airstream THROUGH a dehumidifier for it to be effective - just have it AT the intake area to soak up enough of the humidity to reduce it enough to keep stuff from rusting.


This is an excellent point.

If I recall right, desicants are incredibly weak compared to a dehumidifier. U need a hell lot of space and alot of them before it even has any effect on this kinda airflow. Dehumidifier will heat up the air. Air con that dehumidifies is best but is costly and only gives so much airflow as well. U gotta also watch out for condensation risks.
330  Bitcoin / Mining support / Re: Preventing rust on the Antminer S9 on: April 06, 2018, 05:20:51 PM
Although initially only the fan grates seem to rust, eventually the controller board rusts dead as well. What are some effective ways to slow or stop the S9 from rusting?

https://i.stack.imgur.com/Rrzge.jpg

How long before the controller board rusts dead? It happened to u before?
Dehumidifier does not make sense when airflow is so strong. I think just have to change the fans. The hashboard does not rust right?
Those deciccents are far weaker than dehumidifiers and u have to get rid of the moisture they absorb by heating them later on. The moisture is released in the air when u heat them.
331  Bitcoin / Pools / Re: BITMAIN announces Antpool on: April 06, 2018, 05:11:28 PM
Yep but the best way is to always test it over a week or 2.
Thanks for the comprehensive info

Only if you like to gamble.  Even Slushpool has good weeks and bad weeks.  Its why their webpage displays their 250 block "luck" - since that should always be close to 100%.  I've seen plenty of times when the other stats there were well below 100%.

Likewise, if you look at the KanoPool block stats, their 500 and alltime average are around 100%, all stats under 50 blocks are well over average, the others are below.

This is not a game to be played for "a week or 2".  

Do not confuse "luck" with "fate" - one looks backwards, the other forward, and they are only randomly in sync.  Its like saying "I predict that half the time you flip a coin it will come up heads" and saying I'm good predictor for future things.

I mean put 1 miner on another pool for a week or 2 just to test its returns against all your other miners in another pool.

Can do a comparison on returns then
332  Bitcoin / Hardware / Re: Bitmain's Released Antminer S9, World's First 16nm Miner Ready to Order on: April 05, 2018, 07:02:04 PM
I’m also looking for 420 coupons to purchase for $85 with escrow.  I’ll pay escrow fee.  PM if available.

U should go look at marketplace section. Lets hope bitmain lowers their production for future asics. Difficulty rising too much considering bitcoin price not rising.

Just my 2 cents.
333  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Mining (Altcoins) / Re: Mining , still worth it? on: April 05, 2018, 01:24:26 PM
I still think it is worth it. depends on your strategy though.

I checked my pool address just now and I am expecting 1.9 ETH a month (went up by .09) and I pay $230 for unlimited electricity for my house. I know this number can fluctuate based off of difficulty.

I am not worried about the price per ETH at this moment because I am still making close to $800/month at todays prices. I am mostly mining for the coins at this point though. I am looking for a big jump on prices throughout the year and will sell at that time.

What kind of setup do you have to make 1.9 ETH / month?

Probably around 25-30 GPUs depending on the cheapest GPUs you can get. You would need 3 motherboards to run them. Then these would probably run at an estimated electric power consumption of around 4000-5000 watts. These are very rough estimates. I wouldn't get into buying GPUs for mining at this time tho. Too much is uncertain.

Dont buy gpus now. The antminer E3 is too much cheaper and will drive gpu down the drain.
In general, mining is just not worth it now. Too much risk for this kinda return.

I really feel like the E3 will get bricked like the cryptonight variety did. Nobody like bitmain these days.  Grin

Or could be like SIA coin. No fork.
I hope bitmain lowers their production.

I just hope they try to focus on coins that already have established ASIC markets rather than trying to create new ones that the community doesn't want. They should come out with an improved Bitcoin miner instead of branching to cryptonight, ethash, and everything else under the sun.

Why would one improve a btc miner when there is no need to. Can only improve to 10nm which is not much. It will cannibalize sales of their own S9 product....no point. The current 10nm node miners have proven to not be special or anything.
334  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Mining (Altcoins) / Re: Mining , still worth it? on: April 05, 2018, 12:12:40 PM
I still think it is worth it. depends on your strategy though.

I checked my pool address just now and I am expecting 1.9 ETH a month (went up by .09) and I pay $230 for unlimited electricity for my house. I know this number can fluctuate based off of difficulty.

I am not worried about the price per ETH at this moment because I am still making close to $800/month at todays prices. I am mostly mining for the coins at this point though. I am looking for a big jump on prices throughout the year and will sell at that time.

What kind of setup do you have to make 1.9 ETH / month?

Probably around 25-30 GPUs depending on the cheapest GPUs you can get. You would need 3 motherboards to run them. Then these would probably run at an estimated electric power consumption of around 4000-5000 watts. These are very rough estimates. I wouldn't get into buying GPUs for mining at this time tho. Too much is uncertain.

Dont buy gpus now. The antminer E3 is too much cheaper and will drive gpu down the drain.
In general, mining is just not worth it now. Too much risk for this kinda return.

I really feel like the E3 will get bricked like the cryptonight variety did. Nobody like bitmain these days.  Grin

Or could be like SIA coin. No fork.
I hope bitmain lowers their production.
335  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Mining (Altcoins) / Re: Mining , still worth it? on: April 05, 2018, 11:41:03 AM
I still think it is worth it. depends on your strategy though.

I checked my pool address just now and I am expecting 1.9 ETH a month (went up by .09) and I pay $230 for unlimited electricity for my house. I know this number can fluctuate based off of difficulty.

I am not worried about the price per ETH at this moment because I am still making close to $800/month at todays prices. I am mostly mining for the coins at this point though. I am looking for a big jump on prices throughout the year and will sell at that time.

What kind of setup do you have to make 1.9 ETH / month?

Probably around 25-30 GPUs depending on the cheapest GPUs you can get. You would need 3 motherboards to run them. Then these would probably run at an estimated electric power consumption of around 4000-5000 watts. These are very rough estimates. I wouldn't get into buying GPUs for mining at this time tho. Too much is uncertain.

Dont buy gpus now. The antminer E3 is too much cheaper and will drive gpu down the drain.
In general, mining is just not worth it now. Too much risk for this kinda return.
336  Bitcoin / Pools / Re: BITMAIN announces Antpool on: April 05, 2018, 08:23:30 AM
Honestly, almost any other pool is better than antpoo.   Kano, Slush....all better choices.

U have detailed numbers of this?

You can start here:  https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Comparison_of_mining_pools

The two key aspects are:  Fee percentage (lower is better) & transaction fees being shared

During the boom last December, transaction fees topped 40% of the block reward.  That means pool operators that did not share those fees got rich off their miners work.  

After that, fee percentage rules - if you pay less, you earn more.  Pretty simple.

It gets a bit more complicated when you go down to the next level.  PPS is straight forward, but high risk for the pool operator, so their fees typically range about 4%.  PPSLNS (and various variations) pay when the pool gets a block.  That raises your variance (how regular your payments are), but allows for a lower fee since the pool operator is taking less risk.

Then there is size.  Mining is typically a long term endeavor, but that doesn't mean you might be happy with getting a big payout once a month.  If the pool is too small that is the risk (or even less often for some rather small pools).  Pools like Slushpool typically find dozens of blocks a day, so the payouts are pretty smooth.  Kano sized pools find a few blocks a week - not bad.  Over a long enough time period, that aspect should blend out to be the same for everyone (presuming they find blocks on a reasonable schedule - not once a year!).  Remember:  If the pool you select is small, your payout frequency may be long, but the amount will be bigger - given everything else is equal (fees, transaction fee sharing, etc).

I should also point out that any pool claiming to pay more than 100% is getting those rewards from somewhere.  If you see that, read the fine-print.  Pools are not free to run or maintain, they need to charge something to do so unless they are very very small and running in someones basement.  Nothing wrong with that, but your not likely to get the best support, nor will the pool be able to grow much, with such an endeavor.  For instance, one recent pool is advertising 105% payout.  If you read the fine print, that payout is guaranteed so long as the transaction fees are AT LEAST 10% of the block reward.  The 105% simply referred to the block reward, not the combined block + transaction reward.

Yep but the best way is to always test it over a week or 2.
Thanks for the comprehensive info
337  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Mining (Altcoins) / Re: What happened to GPU mining (late March 2018)? on: April 05, 2018, 07:23:54 AM
And it turns out that the F3 shown in that video is apparently NOT an ETH ASIC miner.

Bitmain released their E3 today for preorders - delivery NOT 'TILL MID JULY (indicating that they do NOT have many units on hand).

180 Mhash
800 watts

(they CLAIM these are minimums, but they'd have to do a TON better to change the below commentary).


About the same hashate and same power draw as a well-tuned 6-card  RX 480/580 "BIOS modded for memory straps" rig.
Slightly LESS hashrate and slightly MORE power draw than a well-tuned 6-card GTX 1070 rig.
NOT exactly a GPU mining killer.

Note that they would have to sell well over ONE MILLION of these units to achieve 50% of the current ETH network hashrate.
For perspective, current Bitcoin network hashrate equates out pretty closely to 2 Million S9 units (but PART of that hashware is LW.COM internal-usage miners, some is Avalon 721/741 units, some is EBang miners, et cetera - Bitmain PROBABLY has sold a total of ONE MILLION S9 units but it took them almost 2 YEARS to manage that despite having THE best performance miner on the market).

The E3 is NOT a GPU mining killer - in fact, I doubt it's going to make much more than a SMALL DENT in ethash mining profitability before ETH goes Proof of Stake and the REAL shakeout happens.

On the positive side, they DID get the price at $800 to a reasonable level, and probably WILL sell as many of these units as they choose to make since that's a LOT cheaper than building a GPU rig that can match the performance.



It is nice to be positive buddy. I notice u often are. But lets look at the chart

https://etherscan.io/chart/difficulty

On 1st Jan 2018, difficulty is about 1938 TH.
On 1st April 2018, it is about 3200 TH.

This is 1262 TH higher, or 65% higher, in just 3 months and this is without the ETH miner being sold to public. Ethereum price did not increase by 65% to keep mining at the same profitability. That why profitability has dropped. In fact ETH price dropped while difficulty increases. The manufacturers ramp up production in anticipation of future price increases of the coin but coin prices wont rise up like last year. We have overcapacity of mining equipment manufacturing and yes, I know u disagree with me.

65% increase in 3 months is roughly about 18% monthly with compounding included. Thus, if the coin price increases by 18% a month, and network difficulty increases by 18% a month, that would make profitability to be the same. Thats not the case. I say overcapacity of mining equipment exist even without this new eth miner. And now this ethminer appears...


This increase is without a bitmain coming in to pump up difficulty. Thus, difficulty can increase at a higher rate now because a new manufacturer is now pushing it up too, not just the current ones. This is why competition in mining is stupid. It hurts those at the bottom, the miners most.

Just my 2 cents.
We need more competition.....competition in asic development. Bitmain is capitalism gone wrong. No competition, complete monopoly and exploitation. There is no company that can stand against Bitmain that's why they are doing whatever they want. If there was competition then prices would be low and so would be the chance of them mining the hell out of those asics before releasing them. Until AMD and Nvidia develops a mining specific gpu or until a asic resistant coin surpasses ETH's market capital it will be dark ages for gpu mining.

Are u out of your mind? Bitmain just added more competition aka the E3 and GPU mining is going to take a major hit.
U want someone else to come.up with something stronger or on par with the E3? That just adds to less profits and more difficulty.

Why would anyone want that
338  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Mining (Altcoins) / Re: Bitmain E3 Ethash Miner ASIC (Shipping:16-31 July. $800 USD) on: April 04, 2018, 09:08:40 PM
I am surprised this isnt sold out. Have people finally understood the risks of mining and the fear of difficulty rising and the overcapacity in mining?


I warned about this long ago https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2781009.msg28443347#msg28443347   in January 2018 that it isnt sustainable for so much mining equipment capacity to be produced. This much equipment is being produced on the assumption price of coins will keep skyrocketing to support the manufacturing of so much equipment. It was not sustainable. I got flamed instead and the thread is locked now.


So, more people now understand that crypto isnt a magic lamp that can give out an unlimited amount of money? There are only so many coins released over a period of time, thus, only so much can be earned.


I still see some posts saying GPU mining will never die. Yep, it wont die but it is gonna go down to shiat and u probably wont be breaking even with a recent GPU rig. U could possible break even with this asic though. Depends.
339  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Mining (Altcoins) / Re: Bitmain E3 Ethash Miner ASIC (Shipping:16-31 July. $800 USD) on: April 04, 2018, 09:00:40 PM
What is up with everyone in this thread acting like ETH is the only mineable coin?  There are a shitload of other algos out there.  Unless you are using old AMD cards, mining ETH hasn't been the most profitable coin to mine in almost a year.  Blows my mind how people act like the sky is falling and its the end of mining because Bitmain is releasing an "ASIC" that is underpowered and overpriced and not even available for 3 months.

What is up with you and your head in the clouds not realizing that ETH is the main source of income of GPUs both directly and indirectly. Yes, its not the most profitable coin to mine but its what FARMS mine for a steady source of income. If ETH tanks all those mining farms will eat up your little GPU rigs and nothing will be profitable. You are a little fish who is lost in a big sea of miners.

There are other coins that are at any given time as profitable or more profitable than ETH. I stopped mining ETH a long time ago. The writing has been on the wall that ETH mining is over for a long time between threats of Asics and Proof of Stake forks being threatened for a long time.  Shocked

What he is telling you is that the Farms will turn to mine your now profitable coins, hashrate will explode and profit will be peanuts.

So its not that there are other profitable coins out there, of course there are, its that if ETH rigs move to other coins then those coins profit will fall drastically.

Maybe so, but that is mining. Plus there are lots of other coins and I don't see the hashrate all moving to one coin. There are enough to spread the hashrate among the other coins. Plus a lot of miners will just sell their rigs and get out of mining, reducing the overall hashrate on all coins.

Very untrue, I made a calculation a while back so numbers are a bit off but it paints a (dark) picture:
If we simplify all GPU's to the hashrate of a GTX1070 (wrong, I know, but just for creating an estimation) then;
-There's about 9.5 million GPU's mining in the world of which
-~8 million are mining ETH
-~1 million are mining ZCash
-~0.36 million are mining ZCL
-~0.33 million are mining ETC
and it quickly goes down from there. This means that ~85% of the GPU's that are mining worldwide are being used to mine Ethash.

When profitability goes down as difficulty rises, more and more mines will look for new coins to mine, there's simply not enough coins that have enough liquidity and perceived market value to keep GPU mining profitable. Lots of mines will go bust, some that have very low power cost and overhead will stay profitable for a while. Expect lots of second hand GPU's soon.

The numbers are from 2 months ago but they are probably a better representation as Bitmain keeps adding hashrate on Ethash, which skews the numbers more and more.

Hard fork? What if they are indeed using gpu chips? There no solution except for cpu-only algo's but that gets destroyed by people abusing AWS instances and botnets etc.

Thats wat I thought as well. I dont know where u get the 85% number but I am aware that ETH is the main. The difficulty of other GPU algo will climb through the roof once the other GPUs switch there.

To add. New GPUs will be cheap and wont even sell much. Gamers will be able to buy cheap GPU in the secondary markets.

I gave u merit for good info on the numbers.
340  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Mining (Altcoins) / Re: What happened to GPU mining (late March 2018)? on: April 04, 2018, 08:44:46 PM


It is nice to be positive buddy. I notice u often are. But lets look at the chart

https://etherscan.io/chart/difficulty


It's easier to look at their hashrate chart, but the diff chart will work too.
Note that except for one "single-day" spike on April 26 that was probably LUCK driven (might have been folks on auto-switch miners bouncing out of ETC or some such though), the Ethereum Total Hashrate (and difficulty) has been slowly DROPPING since April 16.

Yes, there was a big surge for several months before that - but the surge is OVER unless Ethereum price starts rising.



It is now april 5th. I do not know what u mean by april 26.

If u mean march 26th, well, it is 3333 TH on that day and 3197 on april 2nd. U could call that a drop, but it is a drop of 4% which is normal now and then haha. That is just people switching to another algorithm that is more profitable. People will not burn or throw away their rigs.

Fact still remains it is 1935 on 1st Jan and 3197 on April 2nd. A major increase no matter how u look at it. And it is about to go higher with this cheap asic coming in.


Buddy, the hash rate increased over a period of 3 months. There is no luck involved as it is a constant increase over 3 months. I would like to be more optimistic also but I dont see how. I expect things to get worst now that asic for it is being sold to the public.
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