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321  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: September 19, 2023, 04:21:41 PM
Thanks for posting this, I'm actually increasing the size of the image, so that all can clearly see what has happened to that beautiful girl.

WTF

What are we supposed to do about it exactly?

[...]

How about raising awareness? Reacting to it? Expressing our concerns?

Sorry, but I cannot witness monstrosities like this and not reacting, even with a WO post.

Should Jordan Peterson not have made the interview with Chloe Cole (linked in my original post)?

The more people who get to watch that video and the more awareness is raised, the quicker we get rid of this wokeness cancer.
322  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: September 19, 2023, 02:32:40 PM
Another pretty girl destroyed, brainwashed by that woke LGBTQ cancer, it breaks my heart every time i see one of these before and after pictures.

No wonder why more trans individuals attempt suicide years after the transition.



Looking at such destruction of beauty and perversion of nature is truly heartbreaking. I hope this girl finds the strength she one day will need, to cope with what has been done to her, with the blessings and encouragement of governments, the medical establishment and academia.

Some relevant links:

Wikipedia — Chloe Cole
YouTube — Detransition: The Wounds That Won't Heal | Chloe Cole | EP 319

Thanks for posting this, I'm actually increasing the size of the image, so that all can clearly see what has happened to that beautiful girl.
323  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: September 18, 2023, 01:04:23 PM
The 5-min chart looks so nice. A work of art.
324  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: September 18, 2023, 11:23:07 AM
Don't you dare stop Buddy, you hear?

Oh wait...
325  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: September 18, 2023, 04:46:35 AM
A couple more charts using data from Yahoo because I was able to download it in the format I wanted.  I highlighted the top 10 volume days in bitcoin orange; notice they don't all show up in these truncated charts.

This one is weekly close minus weekly open sorted by absolute change highest to lowest:



This one is weekly high minus weekly low and sorted as such highest to lowest(see last column for dollar difference):


 
I did start it with today's yesterday's morning coffee but got frustrated trying to use the conditional formatting in LibreOffice so I walked away for a while.  I couldn't get it to fill the entire row background in red when it saw negative and green when it saw positive values in a particular column.  This is also why you see different shades of red and green highlighting within the same chart.

tl;dr:   There's still hope! As if...  Cool
326  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: September 17, 2023, 05:35:50 PM
I don't want to be,
A grandpa roller-skating!
That's for shitcoiners.

Jimbo don't do that.
And neither does Philipma,
The sandwich miner.

Money can't cure fools,
But that is irrelevant,
If you're reading this.

Don't miss your check-ups.
Eat well, sleep well, have some fun,
And make lots of love.

A life worth living,
Rich or poor, coiner or not,
Is a life that's shared.

It can be a friend,
Or a lover boy or girl.
Don't share your keys though!

Take care of yourselves.
Enjoy corn when it matters.
Life's also finite.

#7wowisdomsundayhaikus
327  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: September 17, 2023, 02:45:22 PM

(click to play)

WO gathering in 2033 Grin

Take good care of your health & well being WOers!

You deserve it.
Your coins demand it.
{add male comments about LHB matters}

Anyone currently under 60 y-o will be OK I guess.
328  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: September 12, 2023, 08:43:43 PM


Jesus Christ!

Is this for real?

Well, we're at $26,099 as I type this, so there's still hope.  Cheesy
329  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: September 10, 2023, 05:26:45 PM
Passphrases and PINs,
Protecting our coins from thieves.
Entropy at work.

What's a good passphrase?
Too small, it can be brute-forced.
Too long, forgotten.

Be your own bank, huh?
Not as easy as it seems.
Gets inside your head.

Talking in your sleep?
Saying words that make no sense?
The map to your coins?

Man, this is too much!
Hypnosis and truth serums,
Rusty pipes and such...

Gets too physical,
And kinky and sexual,
The more coins you have...

I'll take Bob's advice.
Purple fences and shotguns.
Brute-force that, you fucks!

#7wodigestsundayhaikus
330  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: September 10, 2023, 06:23:03 AM
[...]

..... Another thing to note is that the attacker does not have an immediate indication that the correct passphrase was found, because ALL possible passphrases (even "wrong" ones) result in valid (albeit empty) wallets. So, the attacker will need to check the blockchain against ALL passphrase candidates, and reject those that result in empty wallets.

I don't really disagree with what you are saying here overall AlcoHoDL - however, there is a bit of a difference between entering a passphrase that leads to a previously used location versus one that leads to a bunch of empty wallets (that thereby presumptively would have to be created since the route had not previously been attempted).

In other words, if you enter in passphrase that leads to empty wallets, Trezor will provide a message:

"This hidden wallet is empty.  To make sure you are in the correct hidden wallet, please type the passphrase again."

And it thereby allows you to enter the passphrase again to confirm or to just exit out.

There is another box that you can check that says: "I understand passphrases cannot be retrieved."

On the other hand, if you enter a valid passphrase that has value contained therein, it will not give any message or prompt, but just open up to the wallet and the balances of the various accounts therein will be shown.

Jay, you are essentially saying exactly the same thing I'm saying, just in different words. When you type in a random passphrase and Trezor tells you that "This hidden wallet is empty", what Trezor does is go online and check that wallet against the blockchain. There is no other way for Trezor to know whether the wallet is empty or not. You can test this by connecting your Trezor to an offline computer (after cleaning browser cache). You'll see that there is no way for Trezor to differentiate between your "correct" passphrase and any other random passphrase. Also, there is absolutely no difference between "a passphrase that leads to a previously used location versus one that leads to a bunch of empty wallets (that thereby presumptively would have to be created since the route had not previously been attempted)". This is because every possible wallet that can result from every possible passphrase that you can type, already exists! There is no "creation process" because every possible wallet already exists! The passphrase you type is the last piece of the map that leads to that specific wallet, which is already waiting for you to access. Of course, the only passphrase that will lead to a non-empty wallet is your own "correct" passphrase. I'm putting "correct" in quotes, because there is no "right" or "wrong" passphrase, all are equivalent and all lead to existing wallets. So, there is absolutely no difference between your "correct" passphrase and any random passphrase, other than the fact that they lead to different wallets, with only the "correct" one containing your precious BTC.

For Trezor to be able to know which wallet is empty and which is not, it has to go online to check the blockchain, and this takes some time. It may be a few milliseconds, so near-instant for us, but this delay can be significant for a hacker who needs to test quadrillions of different combinations when brure-forcing your passphrase, even if it is done on a local copy of the blockchain.

Just to add to this, the probability of arriving at a non-empty wallet, other than the one corresponding to your "correct" passphrase is, for all practical purposes zero. This is like trying to crack Satoshi Nakamoto's private keys. It has been tried before by many, and has obviously failed. Math & science.

Anyway, I think I've over-described the above, maybe... When Andreas Antonopoulos realized and understood the above process, he was so impressed by its elegance that he nearly stopped eating and sleeping, and devoted his entire time reading more about Bitcoin and the blockchain. I think he said he lost 20+ pounds of weight in a short amount of time during that period.


[...]

It's a trade-off, with potentially dire consequences at either extreme. I choose the middle ground, i.e., a PIN and passphrase that are complex enough to deter even a seasoned thief/hacker, but memorable enough to reside in the neurons of my brain -- that last part could potentially be dangerous in case of amnesia or head injury.

Don't forget the dangers of hypnotism.. or gosh are there truth syrums that someone could put into your drink. and maybe you really don't want to know certain things without having to consult with some kind of way to put some pieces together.. but if you enter your pin or passphrase (or even your 12/24 words) enough, it might get committed to your short term and even long term memory.. is that a good thing or not?.. I do know that the longer I take to access some of my information, it can sometimes seem very complicated, even though I had previously thought (a couple years earlier) that I had created a pretty straight forward system.. but then does it really work..

By the way, I have a little bit of a story, and I am not sure how much I should tell, but I had a situation in which I needed the seed phrase that was supposed to be in three parts and I was missing one of the parts (for reasons), and so I knew that I had two back ups of the three parts, and so I called up a life-long friend, and he surely is not very technical and even though talked with him about bitcoin several times, his eyes glaze over while he is looking at how complicated his flip phone is or that he is trying to get his remote on his TV to work.. (he doesn't have internet).. but anyhow.. I called him up, and I asked him if he could go to the location in which one of the pieces was located, and I would give him the code to get in, and then I would give him instructions about how to get to it while we were on the phone live, and he said o..k.. and he would call me when he was at the location.  It took about 5-10 minutes just to get to locating the place where the words were, and I told him that it would probably be 8 words, and he told me that it is only 4 words.. and then I remembered that it was a 12 word split up instead of a 24 word split.. and so when he read me the 4 words, he mentioned that one of the words was "xxcxxxxx", and I said that does not even sound like a real word, and he read it several times and told me that is what it says.  I said o.k... so I wrote down the 4 words, and I told him that I would let him know if I had any problems in terms of getting access to the wallet that I was wanting to get, but I would have to do it in a few hours.

So when I put together all 12 words, and I typed in the "xxcxxxx"  by the time I got to the second letter, there was already a suggestion that had the word to be "xxrxxxx".. so my friend could have had sworn that the word the one with the "c" and neither of us even thought about the word with the "r".. so sometimes simple mistakes can be figured out, but some kinds of more complicated mistakes might be a lot more difficult to resolve.

Oh.. and by the way,. the whole time my friend was telling me that he was not even going to try to remember anything that I was telling him.. a kind of courtesy message to say that he was recognizing and appreciating that I was sharing private financial information with him.. but part of the reason that I picked him to do it was that I already considered him to be someone who I could trust with that information and even more information than he might be comfortable knowing about.

Never thought of hypnotism... Never took it seriously if I'm totally honest... But maybe this is a valid concern. I guess this danger cannot be avoided, since, by definition, everything is in our brains, even the locations of the backups. It can be stressful and dangerous being your own bank... I guess maintaining OPSEC is the best approach for this.

Nice story. I've left keys (to locks) with friends and relatives for security purposes, but never my wallet seeds or passphrases/PINs. Maybe I should. We're getting older and accidents happen. I think a mega-pump to $200,000+/BTC will surely prompt me to change some things security-wise, perhaps splitting some wallets and arranging for a way for loved ones to access them in case something bad happens.

Edit: Fixed typo.
331  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: September 09, 2023, 12:29:26 PM
I still have problems with the need for 37 random characters for the 25th word.. and let's say if someone just has 10-15 somewhat random characters, then how long is it going to take to break into the Trezor?

I think a lot of confusion has arisen about how strong a passphrase should be to protect someone's seed in case someone comes into physical possession and tries to extract the seed. What someone wanted to emphasize is that a passphrase of at least 37 random characters would provide the same level of protection as the seed itself (24 words) and is practically impossible to brute force, but that does not mean that 10+ characters are not resistant to brute force.

We can always check how long it actually takes to brute force a password on sites like https://www.passwordmonster.com

Only 9 characters in this password makes it virtually impossible to brute force ->



By the way, we have a long term member in these here parts that swears by that piece of crap, aka Ledger, and surely there are probably quite a few members who may or may not be in the closest about their use (and apparent belief) in the Ledger crap.

Ledger does not have the problems that Trezor has, but if we take into account that a few years ago almost the entire database of users with all the data was hacked, and that a few months ago they announced the revolutionary "seed recovery" service, they shot themselves in the knee by giving the possibility at all to one such device shares the user's seed with as many as three different companies.

Of course, the service is optional and you pay $9.99 per month, but when someone does something completely contrary to what they have been advocating for years, I wonder how to trust such a company.

Oh I see that the 39+ pin is different from the extra word...and that 39 character pin would resolve the other issue regarding a hacker getting ahold of the physical device and breaking into it.. so that still leaves the issue of the 13th or 25th word actually not needing to be very complicated, and a 8-15 character passphrase may well make it quite difficult to get at the wallet because they would first need to know (or suspect) that such a wallet (or extra portal to a wallet) actually exists in connection with the 12 or 24 word seed that was extracted from the device.

As I already wrote, I think that the passphrase I mentioned above is more than enough if we take into account today's computers and the time it would take for someone to brute force such a password. Of course, the whole thing doesn't matter at all if someone who knows what he's doing doesn't get hold of our hardware wallet.

Speaking of how to take care of our hardware devices, I always remember an interesting film on that very topic - it's worth watching if you haven't seen it already.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hf97ofTlZhk (Schloss Bitcoin (2020) - deutscher Kurzfilm - Crime Black Comedy Subtitles in English, French & more)

Good post.

That was my point in my earlier post about giving ourselves enough time to restore the seed to another device and transfer the coins to another wallet, unknown to the thief. Practically, one needs just a few days/weeks of time, and in most cases the theft can be discovered immediately after the fact, so the transfer can be done in the first 24 hours. This means that the thief has to have a pretty powerful computer rig to be able to brute force a passphrase of 10+ ASCII characters in 24 hours, or even a week or a month.

I've tested variations of my passphrase (even shorter versions of it) in several different, and well-respected, passphrase strength testers, and they all report a crack time of centuries! Another thing to note is that the attacker does not have an immediate indication that the correct passphrase was found, because ALL possible passphrases (even "wrong" ones) result in valid (albeit empty) wallets. So, the attacker will need to check the blockchain against ALL passphrase candidates, and reject those that result in empty wallets.

I'm quite confident that even a modest, few-characters-only passphrase should be able to stall even the seasoned thief for sufficient time for us to transfer our coins to a fresh wallet. Using a 128-bit entropy PIN or passphrase is surely the safest option, but greatly reduces the usability of the wallet, as Jay has pointed out. Furthermore, using such a humongously long/complex PIN/passphrase, you run the risk of "locking yourself out" of your wallet, because you may forget part of it, which may prompt you to write it down somewhere, thereby defeating the purpose of using a PIN/passphrase in the first place.

I particularly liked vapourminer's "Trezor wipe-restore" method. Never thought of it, and it does make sense for those not using their Trezors often (myself included).

It's a trade-off, with potentially dire consequences at either extreme. I choose the middle ground, i.e., a PIN and passphrase that are complex enough to deter even a seasoned thief/hacker, but memorable enough to reside in the neurons of my brain -- that last part could potentially be dangerous in case of amnesia or head injury.

I'm glad we're having this discussion, it certainly helps us all be more aware of the potential dangers and act accordingly.
332  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: September 08, 2023, 05:13:25 AM
[edited out]

I am really sorry if you are feeling I am not real person and create some confusion here because I am not here for anything wrong just for information, and you already provide good links which I will read and try to understand because few things are very important before jumping into any field but still I am really thankful for your kind information and other details. Just last thing which is a better way to keep my bitcoin safe because I check mostly exchanges needs personal information and I have no problem to provide them this all but is this safe to keep bitcoin on these exchanges or any other way is better, thanks.

I am not opposed to holding some value on exchanges (or with third parties.  In some cases it might be practical while you are learning how to be your own bank), maybe up to a few thousand dollars, and surely for each person the threshold will be different in terms of at what point you are going to want to bring some (or all) of that value off of the exchanges.. and surely you should want to try to learn about some private ways to hold your coins.. so it gives you options to have your coins in private wallets in which no one can stop you from being able to spend them and other potential powers that you might have from having your own keys that may or may not be readily apparent or even something that everyone seeks for themselves, but on the other hand, there is always a threat of either rug pull or various kinds of locking up of your funds when 3rd parties hold your keys.

There are likely several different ways to hold your bitcoin, and Trezor is pretty good.. either the Trezor one (which is cheaper) or the more expensive Trezor Model T and you want to make sure you get it from an authorized source (or authorized reseller) and with trezor it seems better to use the extra word too and also maybe to have some decoy value that you keep on the regular section that does not have the extra word... and of course, it is up to you how you might organize the various accounts on the trezor and get used to it...

Passport and Coldcard are likely good too. but a bit more sophisticated as compared with the Trezor, and there are other members who like Electrum, Spectrum and Sparrow, but I have not really used them... and there are other wallets and forum threads on the topic, and there are some members who like paper wallets, but I am not really accustomed to them, either...

You can also use Bluewallet, but I am a bit weary of keeping too much value on your phone... and maybe Phoenix and Breez are good lightning network wallets, and maybe guys have other recommendations, and there are forum threads on a lot of these topics that could get in depth and just require you to figure out what kinds of tradeoffs that you might be wanting to make to ensure that you have your coins privately and that they are sufficiently safe from getting taken including being careful not to create systems that are so complicated that you end up locking yourself out of your own coins, since there are responsibilities in being your own bank that can sometimes not be exactly straight-forward in terms of learning or even realizing if you might be putting your coins in jeopardy.  

Trezor is excellent. I can vouch for Model One (the original). T can maybe do more altshitcoins better, but One is more than enough for BTC -- at least that's the way I use it. Just to reiterate (have covered this topic extensively in the past) that Trezor is just a tool for user-friendly access to your wallet. The actual wallet is the 24(+1)-word seed. It's not material. It's numbers in number-space. So, even if the physical device is lost, stolen, damaged, or even sunk in a failed seastead attempt or boating accident, your wallet is still out there, as it will always be, for all eternity, set in stone by math & science, and only accessible via the seed. It's the seed that one should secure and never lose.

...

afaik, for the Trezor to be absolutely safe in case of theft you would want a 128 bits entropy passphrase.
Alternatively you can use a PIN with 39 digits (Model T). Note: it will be more than 39 digits for the small Trezor as its PIN numbers include only numerals from 1-9 and not 0-9 like the Model T.

PSA: Trezor doesn't have the oft-mentioned seed extraction vulnerability. Use a strong PIN.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/sdx4r6/psa_trezor_doesnt_have_the_oftmentioned_seed/

A nice table for entropy requirements:


The purpose of the Trezor PIN is to delay the thief and give you enough time to restore the seed to another device and transfer your coins to another wallet. A simple 8-digit PIN is more than adequate for this purpose. Even a 4-digit PIN will likely delay a thief for sufficient time, considering that a Trezor delays retries by a time window that increases by a factor of a power of 2 after each failed attempt.

...

I'm afraid, your explanation is outdated and gives a false sense of security.

The delay you mention won't really work anymore, since said Trezor's vulnerability was detected.
A thief with standard equipment can extract the encrypted seed from the Trezor's chip within minutes and can decrypt it with the usual brute force.

So with your 8 digits PIN your seed can be known within 15 minutes. Good luck detecting the theft and moving your funds before the thief starts that process.

So with Trezor please use a proper 128 bits PIN. If you don't, you should have a proper 128 bits passphrase.

Edit
just recognized Lucius beat me to it:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=178336.650480

Many thanks (and to Lucius) for this information, I stand corrected! I remember I read this article a while back, but thought it was something that could be patched with a f/w update. According to the article, it isn't patchable, at least in the h/w versions affected, and I'm not sure whether or not it has been resolved in current versions. The vulnerability is in the STM32 chip they're using, so they need to change the chip, which isn't easy.

Taking this into account, one should definitely use a very strong passphrase (a.k.a. 25-th word) as well as a strong PIN. That's the way I've set up mine. This should give us enough time to take measures against theft.

In any case, a h/w wallet beats an unsecured paper wallet hands down, since a paper wallet is essentially an open wallet, ready to be snatched by anyone who finds it -- no brute force or hacking required.

Edit: I have already updated my original post with this information, and links to your posts, so that readers are aware of it.
333  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: September 07, 2023, 07:23:04 PM
[edited out]

I am really sorry if you are feeling I am not real person and create some confusion here because I am not here for anything wrong just for information, and you already provide good links which I will read and try to understand because few things are very important before jumping into any field but still I am really thankful for your kind information and other details. Just last thing which is a better way to keep my bitcoin safe because I check mostly exchanges needs personal information and I have no problem to provide them this all but is this safe to keep bitcoin on these exchanges or any other way is better, thanks.

I am not opposed to holding some value on exchanges (or with third parties.  In some cases it might be practical while you are learning how to be your own bank), maybe up to a few thousand dollars, and surely for each person the threshold will be different in terms of at what point you are going to want to bring some (or all) of that value off of the exchanges.. and surely you should want to try to learn about some private ways to hold your coins.. so it gives you options to have your coins in private wallets in which no one can stop you from being able to spend them and other potential powers that you might have from having your own keys that may or may not be readily apparent or even something that everyone seeks for themselves, but on the other hand, there is always a threat of either rug pull or various kinds of locking up of your funds when 3rd parties hold your keys.

There are likely several different ways to hold your bitcoin, and Trezor is pretty good.. either the Trezor one (which is cheaper) or the more expensive Trezor Model T and you want to make sure you get it from an authorized source (or authorized reseller) and with trezor it seems better to use the extra word too and also maybe to have some decoy value that you keep on the regular section that does not have the extra word... and of course, it is up to you how you might organize the various accounts on the trezor and get used to it...

Passport and Coldcard are likely good too. but a bit more sophisticated as compared with the Trezor, and there are other members who like Electrum, Spectrum and Sparrow, but I have not really used them... and there are other wallets and forum threads on the topic, and there are some members who like paper wallets, but I am not really accustomed to them, either...

You can also use Bluewallet, but I am a bit weary of keeping too much value on your phone... and maybe Phoenix and Breez are good lightning network wallets, and maybe guys have other recommendations, and there are forum threads on a lot of these topics that could get in depth and just require you to figure out what kinds of tradeoffs that you might be wanting to make to ensure that you have your coins privately and that they are sufficiently safe from getting taken including being careful not to create systems that are so complicated that you end up locking yourself out of your own coins, since there are responsibilities in being your own bank that can sometimes not be exactly straight-forward in terms of learning or even realizing if you might be putting your coins in jeopardy.  

Trezor is excellent. I can vouch for Model One (the original). T can maybe do more altshitcoins better, but One is more than enough for BTC -- at least that's the way I use it. Just to reiterate (have covered this topic extensively in the past) that Trezor is just a tool for user-friendly access to your wallet. The actual wallet is the 24(+1)-word seed. It's not material. It's numbers in number-space. So, even if the physical device is lost, stolen, damaged, or even sunk in a failed seastead attempt or boating accident, your wallet is still out there, as it will always be, for all eternity, set in stone by math & science, and only accessible via the seed. It's the seed that one should secure and never lose.

...

afaik, for the Trezor to be absolutely safe in case of theft you would want a 128 bits entropy passphrase.
Alternatively you can use a PIN with 39 digits (Model T). Note: it will be more than 39 digits for the small Trezor as its PIN numbers include only numerals from 1-9 and not 0-9 like the Model T.

PSA: Trezor doesn't have the oft-mentioned seed extraction vulnerability. Use a strong PIN.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/sdx4r6/psa_trezor_doesnt_have_the_oftmentioned_seed/

A nice table for entropy requirements:


The purpose of the Trezor PIN is to delay the thief and give you enough time to restore the seed to another device and transfer your coins to another wallet. A simple 8-digit PIN is more than adequate for this purpose. Even a 4-digit PIN will likely delay a thief for sufficient time, considering that a Trezor delays retries by a time window that increases by a factor of a power of 2 after each failed attempt.

Adding a passphrase (a.k.a. 25th word) adds to this, obviously, but serves a much greater purpose, which is plausible deniability (there's a hint about this in Jay's post).

These tools (the PIN and especially the passphrase, even with relatively low entropy) are incredibly important in securing access to your wallet. It's like carrying a safe in your pocket, as compared to a paper wallet, which is equivalent to a plain old wallet.



Edit: Many thanks to Lucius (post) and Gachapin (post), for pointing out a h/w vulnerability that affects Trezor Model One and Model T h/w wallets, and enables a hacker with physical access to the device and the necessary equipment to extract the seed.

Taking this into account, one should definitely use a very strong passphrase (a.k.a. 25-th word) as well as a strong PIN. That's the way I've set up mine. This should give us enough time to take measures against theft.

In any case, a h/w wallet beats an unsecured paper wallet hands down, since a paper wallet is essentially an open wallet, ready to be snatched by anyone who finds it -- no brute force or hacking required.
334  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: September 07, 2023, 03:51:49 PM
[edited out]

I am really sorry if you are feeling I am not real person and create some confusion here because I am not here for anything wrong just for information, and you already provide good links which I will read and try to understand because few things are very important before jumping into any field but still I am really thankful for your kind information and other details. Just last thing which is a better way to keep my bitcoin safe because I check mostly exchanges needs personal information and I have no problem to provide them this all but is this safe to keep bitcoin on these exchanges or any other way is better, thanks.

I am not opposed to holding some value on exchanges (or with third parties.  In some cases it might be practical while you are learning how to be your own bank), maybe up to a few thousand dollars, and surely for each person the threshold will be different in terms of at what point you are going to want to bring some (or all) of that value off of the exchanges.. and surely you should want to try to learn about some private ways to hold your coins.. so it gives you options to have your coins in private wallets in which no one can stop you from being able to spend them and other potential powers that you might have from having your own keys that may or may not be readily apparent or even something that everyone seeks for themselves, but on the other hand, there is always a threat of either rug pull or various kinds of locking up of your funds when 3rd parties hold your keys.

There are likely several different ways to hold your bitcoin, and Trezor is pretty good.. either the Trezor one (which is cheaper) or the more expensive Trezor Model T and you want to make sure you get it from an authorized source (or authorized reseller) and with trezor it seems better to use the extra word too and also maybe to have some decoy value that you keep on the regular section that does not have the extra word... and of course, it is up to you how you might organize the various accounts on the trezor and get used to it...

Passport and Coldcard are likely good too. but a bit more sophisticated as compared with the Trezor, and there are other members who like Electrum, Spectrum and Sparrow, but I have not really used them... and there are other wallets and forum threads on the topic, and there are some members who like paper wallets, but I am not really accustomed to them, either...

You can also use Bluewallet, but I am a bit weary of keeping too much value on your phone... and maybe Phoenix and Breez are good lightning network wallets, and maybe guys have other recommendations, and there are forum threads on a lot of these topics that could get in depth and just require you to figure out what kinds of tradeoffs that you might be wanting to make to ensure that you have your coins privately and that they are sufficiently safe from getting taken including being careful not to create systems that are so complicated that you end up locking yourself out of your own coins, since there are responsibilities in being your own bank that can sometimes not be exactly straight-forward in terms of learning or even realizing if you might be putting your coins in jeopardy.   

Trezor is excellent. I can vouch for Model One (the original). T can maybe do more altshitcoins better, but One is more than enough for BTC -- at least that's the way I use it. Just to reiterate (have covered this topic extensively in the past) that Trezor is just a tool for user-friendly access to your wallet. The actual wallet is the 24(+1)-word seed. It's not material. It's numbers in number-space. So, even if the physical device is lost, stolen, damaged, or even sunk in a failed seastead attempt or boating accident, your wallet is still out there, as it will always be, for all eternity, set in stone by math & science, and only accessible via the seed. It's the seed that one should secure and never lose.

Merit farmers came back again? They seem to come in waves...  Roll Eyes

Looking fwd to the next bull run, to see how WO will react. Gay Xmas cards? Choo-choos? Carolinas?  Grin

A few more years/cycles, and I can see WO data being downloaded and studied by PhDs in psychology. It's becoming a gigantic social experiment.  Cheesy
335  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: September 03, 2023, 05:01:19 PM
Sure, it dumped again.
Nocoiner psychopaths cheer,
Spewing bitterness.

ChartBuddy missing...
Merit farmers ass kissing...
Trolls copy-pasting...

What's wrong with movies?
I like a good movie watch.
Thanks, BitcoinBunny!

Jesus or Allah.
They are two sides of one coin,
And that ain't Bitcoin!

Christians or Muslims.
Such unspeakable evil,
In their "holy" books.

Refusing to live,
In order to escape death.
Dead ones can't re-die!

But I still kneel there,
At the giver of pleasure,
The bearer of life.

#7wodigestsundayhaikus
336  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: September 02, 2023, 05:49:31 AM


it's the time of the cycle I'm not interested in looking at the price anymore...

we had our low (hopefully) and we all know what's coming next (hopefully definitely)

FTFY.
337  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: September 01, 2023, 04:28:03 AM
[...]

I told you guys they are going to stall until they cannot stall anymore. Now is the time to buy up cheap coin. When that barrel bursts, ETFs will come flowing one after another.
Zoom out and stop panicking. Roll Eyes

Not panicking. Who in their right mind would sell any amount of coin below $100,000 anyway? So, $20k, $30k, $60k are irrelevant (to me at least). In fact, this is one of the few remaining opportunities for no/low-coiners (and even bigger players) to stock up.

Let the badger do its thing, be patient, less than 2 years remaining for 6-digit territory (Crystal BallTM guaranteed).

All good.
338  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: August 30, 2023, 04:23:44 AM
he's either using a Mac or he's Nullius' alter-account. Either way, kudos to him.

Me being alt of Nullius would be one hell of a plot twist!
Check my feedback page for reference!

Of course you aren't, it was meant as a semi-joke. Your correction to Jay and the apostrophe comment were the serious part. I pay attention to such details, and appreciate people noticing them.

Where is Nullius BTW? I miss him and his beautiful Greek goddesses...  Cheesy
339  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: August 29, 2023, 02:26:58 PM
Correction

Little more as Ant-ish

Bring out dee ANTZ!
340  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: August 29, 2023, 02:26:10 PM
[...]

Your such a good sport...

*You’re

+1. Language is important.

Sorry Jay, fillippone's got you there. And notice the type of apostrophe he's using: it's slanted (’), not straight ('), meaning he's either using a Mac or he's Nullius' alter-account. Either way, kudos to him.
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