Tbh the whole sdc to shadow thing and shadow to shadow is way to confusing.
Just call the button: "anonymize coins" or something.
Yes. A lot of the current wallet functionality seems to have the vestiges of a debug version. A dev works so hard on his product it becomes too familiar and sometimes additional eyes are needed to see where the bumpy parts are. Here are a few places where I think things could be made easier: Receiving stealth addresses for Shadow should be optional. Practical example- you have a poker site in Antigua, perfectly legal in most of the world, they accept SDC for betting and they openly publish a SDC address where you can send your funds for betting. Now you have a poker player in the US, where online betting is not so legal, he wants to obscure his deposits to this site so he sends it in the form of Shadow. The poker site doesn't want to have to mess around with one time use stealth addresses, more work and possible confusion. The player should be able to just send Shadow to the published SDC address, and his wallet should be able to get a one time use address automatically from the site's wallet. When doing a clandestine transaction the less communication between the parties involved the better. One-button conversion to/from Shadow/SDC. "Convert to/convert from" "Amount" "Click here to convert." All done. Default setting of automatically choose ring size. Most users won't know what that is, and don't want to. Expert users can uncheck an option and set their own ring size. Easy importation and separate accounting for multiple private keys. I tried importing a second private key into a wallet and it combines the balances for both. It would be nice to have a screen where you can click on one of several accounts in your wallet and see the accounting for each one. Automatically fetch public keys for messaging and eventually, file transfer. They're public already, I should be able to send somebody a message just with their SDC address. Even better, it would be nice to be able to send a really private message to a one time use stealth address too. Hopefully this is helpful. Being I'm just a monkey I don't know how much of this is feasible, or how much work is involved from the perspective of the devs. Just what would be nice from the perspective of a user. Thanks in advance, and merry Christmas to all! Thanks for the feedback Automatic Monkey. I went ahead and created a feedback thread for ShadowSend in the feature request section on Shadowtalk. I posted your feedback there, if anyone has any other feedback please feel free to post it there so we can collect all the data. http://shadowtalk.org/topic/305/shadowsend-v2-feedbackAlso, I'm creating a FAQ page for our new website, so if anyone can contribute and post questions you feel the rest of the community and future users can benefit from please post them here: http://shadowtalk.org/topic/306/faq-for-shadow-s-websiteThanks all |
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Thanks for the info team. Quick note: Although lower priority, don't forget the mobile apps please, they need a lot of work as they still use the old branding and are quite ugly. Since the desktop wallet is HTML5, can't you not simply wrap that in an app (should be trivial?)?
Yep, np and thanks for pointing that out. We're working on mobile updates right now. The team thought it best to wait until our ZK update to refresh our mobile clients with the new UI. Work started on that last week so we should have an update in the near future. |
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Tbh the whole sdc to shadow thing and shadow to shadow is way to confusing.
Just call the button: "anonymize coins" or something.
Good job tho, true recolution
Hey deliveryman, I thought of a couple suggestions like SDT ( Sha dow Tokens) or STDs ( Shadow Tokenized Denominations). Feel free to make a thread with some suggestions: http://shadowtalk.org/category/5/feature-requests |
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What are the next steps of development after releasing ShadowSend v2?
Hi coinzcoinzcoinz, A few of us on the team are building out the marketplace. It's currently in the first stage of development (graphic design). We're almost finished with phase one. If anyone would like to support the development please feel free to donate to crz. He's doing an amazing job (as usual) and soon we'll have the best decentralized marketplace coupled with our top notch anon protocol! Crz's donation address, along with the phase one information can be found here http://shadowtalk.org/topic/289/sbay/2 Any feedback regarding design should be posted to that thread. Thanks!
So like OpenBazaar style? Will it be anonymous? Over Tor?
Openbazaar uses Bitmessage, Shadow uses ShadowChat, so the nuts and bolts will be different. We'll have our own solution tailored to Shadow. We'll release more information regarding the specs at a later date. If you'd like to get involved in the funding and feedback stage please sign up on Shadowtalk and leave some feedback. We'll be releasing the first draft of the graphic design shortly to get feedback from the community on the design direction. -- Now that ShadowSend 2 is out, it gives our developers a well deserved holiday break. They've been busting their butts on Shadowsend from September-December (18+ hour/day development shifts), so they could definitely use some R&R.. While we are in-between design and front end development for the marketplace, I would imagine there will be a few minor updates to improve the UX of Shadowsend. But ultimately we'll need to complete phase 1 and 2 before it would be ready for our main developers. We had a vote in IRC a while back regarding which project to focus on next and the community overwhelmingly chose the marketplace. That's not to say that one of the devs won't also be working in the background updating ShadowChat as per the old roadmap. We should have an updated roadmap available later today so keep an eye out for that  I would ask that everyone in the community support the phase 1 marketplace efforts by donating to our designer CRZ. There wasn't pre-mine or ICO/IPO, everything is community supported, so if anyone likes the concept of the marketplace - don't be shy to show some love! |
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Is Alty being part of the SDC team? He is such a big threat for the crypto community. He fucked several crypto investors with his big scam Cloakcoin. Hype, empty promises, broken incomplete code, insider trading and then disapperead. Before you speak of Alty being a threat to SDC you should take note that Alty has donated to our lead designer CRZ, that's more than can be said of you contributing to the project. Another contribution is the bounty he put up for the demo videos.. I for one am happy that more people (not just including Alty) are stepping up and contributing. It's simple. If you aren't contributing and you don't have anything nice to say - then don't say anything. Big shoutouts: Jimmies for pimping the hell out the slideshow presentation (should be uploaded tomorrow) Dasource for setting up another faucet + building more features into it Alty for contributing the demo video bounty and donations to Crz. DFG for donating to Crz and organizing the SDC explainer video SebSeb for busting ass all across the board Longandshort for handling the Shadow wiki/faucets and being longandshort |
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Hey Smooth, welcome! Have you had a chance to use the new protocol?
No, I just read the white paper. Smooth: PM me with your SDC addy and I'll send you some. Please everyone: the anon vertical isn't a hockey match, we're all fighting towards the same goal of financial privacy; that doesn't mean we should be fighting amongst each other. Please keep the discussion technical there's no room here for bashing developer efforts.. Smooth has came in here and praised our work; there's no reason to be confrontational towards him i.e. telling him "to leave the thread" and so forth. One of the strengths SDC has moving forward as a new contender for a top spot in the anon vertical is that the SDC codebase is much more mature than cryptonote-based coins, since there has been much more contribution made towards the Bitcoin codebase. There's also been years of commerce to test it's security. That's not to say in the future Cryptonote-coins won't catch up, but things like mobile applications and friendly UIs is something that helps put Shadow in the forefront. Although Bytecoin was out way before Darkcoin, the latter has the first mover advantage over every coin project in the anon vertical; However, superior technology can alter landscape. Shadow's main weakness at the moment is recognition from the media and from the general crypto community.. but I have a strong feeling that will be changing very soon. Traction comes with time and we have plenty of that. In the future, our team will be focused on further improving upon an already amazing innovation, so we can all look forward to that. Right now we have the best anon solution on the market coupled with a proven platform and a wide array of features some of which have a viable market value to multiple billion dollar industries. I would implore any new investors to really dig into our project and see what it is about. We've made many "firsts" for crypto and we'll continue to do so. Our team is dedicated to the project, so get involved and join in on the journey - it's going to be an amazing ride  I should hopefully have the new website up later today. I'm looking forward to getting everyone's feedback there. That said, I wish everyone happy holidays. Enjoy your time with your families (remember to tell them about SDC) and wish you all the best in 2015. |
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I notice that I was quoted above.
There is no huge difference guys. Shadow is using almost exactly the same protocol (and methods of providing anonymity) as cryptonote with some minor tweaks (fewer denominations for each digit, which either way is a reasonable but somewhat arbitrary trade off between chain size and anonymity set size)
People said that Satoshi's Bitcoin invention wasn't so great either. They said the encryption and most of the schemes were already invented. The brilliance of Satoshi however, was putting those pieces that were invented by others before him, together in a brilliant way that created a powerful incentive system. I see what Shadow is doing as much similar. Perhaps the developers borrowed and used techniques from those that came before, but what they have done is put those pieces together in a unique genius way. It has the same essence and feel as Bitcoin does, and I like that. That wasn't my point. You are being a bit defensive. What I'm saying is that you get the same anonymity as cryptonote. That is not a bad thing. Cryptonote is the best system yet invented for anonymous coins, so this is a positive. The conversion/minting/creating/destroying process doesn't give you more anonymity. Possibly less, if you are converting too often (though there is no good reason to do that). But no more is needed, because cryptonote is already pretty damn good. Hey Smooth, welcome! Have you had a chance to use the new protocol? Apologies I haven't joined the discussion, I've been building our new website.. but wanted to say hello to everyone. New website is looking much better. Looking forward to migrating the site over. xD  |
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Whys so scared? Try it within your own wallet, between addresses. You're your own mixing service now! And it's lightning fast (not a 24-48 hour wait like DarkSend running through the Masternode network.)
DS isn't that slow as you claim. It should take few hours at worst if you use 8 rounds denom.. DarkSend also uses pre-mixing. Coins are mixed whenever you want, not just when you want to spend. Anon is on-tap. Mixing I/Os is so 2014..  Welcome to 2015 where they are destroyed. 
There was so much misinformation I just gave up. There is only so much time on this planet.
Seeing people say the exact same thing with each new scamcoin gets tiring. But the sheep need fleecing, so I expect we'll be seeing Shadowmoney, Blackcash, Hiddenasset etc ad infinitum. And all of their supporters will tell us how we just see their blatant shitcoin as a threat to Darkcoin. In case you missed it.. http://shadowtalk.org/topic/252/darkcoin-proposal-statementAnd guys and gals there's no need to bash DRK's efforts. At least they are trying to innovate instead of search and replacing code. There's only a few original projects like ours that are innovating and they deserve respect for their efforts. |
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Why wouldn't you just delete the line "when clearly there is no more NIZKP in the source than exists in Monero's keyimage system." instead of striking through since it is obvious fud? Advertising, that's why.
Because anyone that gets email notifications has the full text of what I said anyway. If you'd prefer, I'll gladly remove the strikethrough, since the point is valid. Also, if there's a miraculous advancement in NIZKP implementation in the source please do point it out to me and I will absolutely publicly admit my gross inability to notice it. Hi Fluffy, I just spoke with SDCDev regarding the comment above: "it's in 'generate signature' ( https://github.com/SDCDev/shadowcoin/commit/317b9b1f5121ecde162fd8d37fbd587182c45fef), its just the hash commitment from the signature... we don't have snarks or full zero knowledge, just a zero knowledge proof. The keyimage is the tag.. the zkp is the whole construction of tag... the algorithm in the paper pretty much translates directly to the code" - SDCDev  WP: http://shadow.cash/downloads/shadowcash-anon.pdfNote: SDCDev has stated he will be responding himself with a clearer explanation. Rynomster or anyone else: Feel free to correct me wherever I'm wrong as this is also a learning process for me.AFAIK Cryptonote doesn't destroy or mint coin during its process. If I'm correct, then this is the biggest difference between the two schemes.  My understanding of Shadowcash: Shadowcash is similar to Zerocoin in the sense that it uses anonymous token system to destroy SDC then mint new Shadow (SDC-to-Shadow); However, unlike Zerocoin, it doesn't require a trusted setup to convert Bitcoin into newly minted Zerocoin. Below is an image of the Zerocoin minting process:  (continued) The Shadowcash network destroys the SDC and mints Shadow in it's place (SDC-to-Shadow) via smaller denominations of Shadow Tokens (Shadow) equal to that of the destroyed SDC. These Shadow Tokens (SDT) make up the members of the ring signature. The newly minted Shadow tokens have no link to the destroyed Shadowcoin, because it is sent to dual-key stealth address. Non-interactive zero knowledge proofs (NIZKPs) are used when sending Shadow-to-Shadow between Stealth Addresses; Furthermore removing linkability between parties. The only way to redeem Shadow is to provide ownership of the tokens through ownership of the address via a traceable ring signature. Thus, if you don't own the address containing the Shadow then the network won't allow you to mint (redeem) new Shadowcoin (Shadow-to-SDC). How can anyone be sure that there are no "phantom tokens"? Who is going to control the creation of these tokens? Is it all based on trust, are you serious? wtf
they can only be created by sending SDC -> Shadow, there are api: >shadowcoind help anon anoninfo [recalculate] anonoutputs [systemTotals] [show_immature_outputs] estimateanonfee <amount> <ring_size> [narration] reloadanondata sendanontoanon <stealth_address> <amount> <ring_size> [narration] [comment] [comment-to] sendanontosdc <stealth_address> <amount> <ring_size> [narration] [comment] [comment-to] sendsdctoanon <stealth_address> <amount> [narration] [comment] [comment-to] and in the wallet there is a chain data page, which shows all the anonymous outputs in the system.  Shadowcash doesn't seem similar to cryptonote other than the use of ring signatures. IMO, ShadowCash seems more advanced in it's implementation vs Cryptonote because Shadowcash destroys the inputs (SDC) and creates anonymous outputs (Shadow). From the Monero thread regarding I/Os: So miner(or anybody) knows sum of all spent inputs and outputs ?
The ins and outs each have amounts, so you can add that up. Am I right ?
Transaction
input(a1=5 XMR, random=6 XMR) output( g1=3 XMR, a3=1 XMR, keyImage_a1 )
ringSing(pub a1, pub random and private a1)
using VER and LNK everybody can verify that a1 holds 5 XMR, so I'm able to spend 4 XMR and miner can take 1 XMR fee ?
implies a1 was used (because I can't spend random)
implies a1_priv * H_p(A1_pub) = keyImage_a1
Am I missing something ?
I'm not sure of your notation here Is 'random' a foreign output used for a ring sig? In that case, that's not how it works. Each input uses a separate ring sig, with other outputs of the same same. And what does g1 (or a3 for that matter) denote on your output? yes I want use "foreign output used for a ring sig" to obscure transaction. I'll pull it from block chain. g1(I pay for god) and a3(my new address) does not matter. Okay well like I said, each input will have it own set of foreign outputs used for mixing. Such outputs will all be of the same size, so this doesn't change the amount of the transaction, just its possible funding sources. Perhaps you want to revise your example? Please can you make example: 1) I have unspent output 5 XMR, I want to pay 3 XMR for goods and 1 XMR transaction fee. 2) I want obscure my payment with 1 foreign input what holds 6 XMR. You can't do #2 with the the protocol works today. There is a modification from gmaxwell that allows using foreign outputs of different sizes but it isn't implemented anywhere AFAIK. Your foreign ouputs need to be of the same size. So we would have (borrowing some of your notation) tx(input(ring(a1(5 XMR),f1(5 XMR),f2(5 XMR),f3(5 XMR)) -> output(r1(3 XMR),c1(1 XMR))) a1 = our own upspent output f1..f3 = foreign outputs of size equal to a1 r1 = output owned by recipient c1 = change output owned by us We could also include additional inputs (and generate more change) if we wanted to further obscure the amount of the transaction. Did you forgot to add keyImage for a1 ? Or how can be this transaction verified ? Like I said before, understanding this scheme has been a learning process for me. If I'm incorrect in any of information, Ryno or anyone else please feel free to correct me. I spent the better part of the day preparing a guide/explanation slide presentation (draft) that goes over the flow from start to finish. The information in the presentation comes from the WP and IRC, so I'm sure it's 100%. Ryno still needs to verify everything though. I think the visualization of the process will help people understand the groundbreaking innovation made here and more importantly - how to use it. It's truly a unique system. (1st Draft and will edit accordingly) https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1yX2jN618Rnzs4g2ri_utdKdHbny6-xnRcPhOuhLNGB0/edit#slide=id.g577a31a2a_086I'm working with crz to create a proper technical infographic that shows the process similar to the zerocoin and cryptonote images above. Not sure when those will be released but feel free to donate to crz! http://shadowtalk.org/topic/74/new-branding-wallet-logo-icons-visuals-infographics-media/12Thanks! |
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Why not go talk to the bitcoin core devs about the whitepaper and get their opinnion like you done for stealthcoin...
I want SDC to succeed, but just get some positive comments from credible people if you want this coin to really take off. until then it just feels like one of the most insidious pump and dumps of all times, with the vast majority of coins held between probably no more than 5 people.
Hi LRENZ, SDC creates innovation anyone can see this project is here for the long haul. Our dual key stealth address implementation (shadowsend v1) is being used by countless projects and has yet to be reviewed by any fancy pants cryptographers. Hopefully our new contribution will bring some attention to the efforts being made here. Coin distribution is something that happens over time, there's plenty of SDC for sale for anyone that want to redistribute. That being said, the WP was shown to the bitcoin devs, but no response was given. Our community has reached out to veterans within the crypto community and are awaiting their responses. I would assume those responses will come after we break through block 257,000. Also, keep in mind that we're still waiting for responses regarding our Stealth Address implementation.. Fluffy was kind enough to take the time to review it and we're waiting on Ryno's responses to those inquires. |
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Lack of pump after v2 release has been surprising. I support this coin no matter what though, holding on to my stash for at least a year.
Seems like the market is waiting until block 257k before jumping in. Once people are able to send anon tx then I think we'll see a turnaround. |
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That is literally you. I am just defending a good dev and pointing out your cheap stab at trying to grab some of the SDC market. Sorry skip and seb, I am done. My point is that SDC is legit, if you have concerns or questions, IRC is quite active and a more efficient way.
Hush, my friend. Your time on this topic has ended, continuously trying to have the last word is demeaning to you and you alone. And my topic on this thread really has come to an end. It's been a fun chat, but clearly there is a distinct lack of people in this thread that know how to braai. If Ryno ever wants to have a conversation devoid of poesklaps he can look me up. Technical debate is always welcome here bru. This thread belongs to anyone with legitimate inquires, despite the reactionary responses from some of the people here. People are so accustomed to the FUDpacking and trolling on Bitcointalk that sometimes genuine questions get filed into the same category. I'm sure the tension between everyone here is an honest misunderstanding. Ryno is AFK atm, but will be back later with a response for you.  |
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Why do all these "new" anon coins have names that sound like they were chosen by teenagers?
 https://eprint.iacr.org/2012/596.pdfIronically "Shadow" addresses is a technical term used to describe the only privacy mechanism adopted by Bitcoin. "Bitcoin, in order to improve anonymity, produces a shadow address which collects back the change that results from any transaction. So when a single transaction has 2 outputs, you have to predict which one of the output addresses is actually belonging to the same user that initiated the transaction. If one of those two outputs has never appeared before in the blockchain, while the other has, then we can assume that the one that never appeared before is the shadow address." - http://bitcoin.stackexchange.com/questions/14322/how-many-public-keys-is-thereI think ShadowCash is a fitting name to pick up where Bitcoin left off in regards to privacy. |
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No reason to hate monero, it's awesome. I heard they even have a wallet these days, it's running on browser or smth. And it's only like 2-3 years to go until the inflation is small enough so you can actually consider investing.
Go home illodin He is home. |
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So when are we expected to hit block 257,000?
Rough estimate would be the upcoming Sunday/Monday. |
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Cryptonote uses a different curve, different libraries, and a whole different underlying core. We used ring signatures to spend Shadow, which is created by sending SDC as an anonymous output. Our scheme is quite a bit different, in that we borrow concepts from zerocoin, with the minting and spending, and use ring signatures to make the inputs untraceable from the outputs.. We're also using PoS instead of PoW. Its a completely unique scheme and implementation  |
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So will the SDC price sellers set for items pegged to USD or is it a number they plug in that needs to be changed everytime ShadowCash price rises or declines? Important question. The best choice is that the system automatically updates a seller's item price to reflect current market conditions.
Not best at all, not for the coin. If you want fiat for your item, put it on Ebay. If you want to increase the value of the coin the items have to be denominated in the coin, and that will stabilize the value of the coin by relating it to items of known value. The lower SDC price sellers are willing to accept for their items, the greater the value of SDC relative to fiat and to BTC becomes. Of course, the SDC marketplace is likely to contain a few items not available on Ebay. Sorry, I think you misunderstood me. I don't want fiat but I do have costs to distributors and suppliers. So listing an item on a static system (ie: 1 item for 1,000SDC) where the price doesn't change with the market is not something I want to do. It's a waste of my time to have to check the market prices and then re-enter all the prices potentially every hour on the hour. So if I list @ 1,000 SDC and the market cap of SDC drops I lose money and if it rises customers won't buy it (too expensive). But, if the system is automatic as Cornett says, then my time is much more efficient, customers still get the best deals and I can pay my guys and pull a profit. That's all the question was asking. If that's the case, then list it someplace else in dollars and buy SDC with the dollars. Not trying to be an ass or anything, but using SDC as a proxy for dollars (means of exchange) is different than using SDC as a currency (store of value). The other problem with this system you describe is that a whale can pump the market, which reduces the SDC you get, buy your product, then dump, making the coins you got worth even less. So you can get screwed just as easily with a system that converts the price from dollars as one where you get denominated in SDC. Once the coin is distributed to the point where such manipulation is not possible that won't be a problem, but at that point the overnight fluctuations in SDC won't be a worry either.  I think you're missing the suggestion. It would be pegged to a fiat currency with real time price update on the item or service listed. So if you're selling a video card for $200 or Euro the price would be converted into SDC and displayed there along with the dollar or euro value. That way it doesn't really matter if a whale is pumping or dumping you're still getting the base value for the item. Without a concept like this sellers would have to adjust the price themselves. In the end people like options, so being able to choose either option of pegging to native fiat or just crypto amount when listing and item/service could be a happy median. Throw your feedback on the design thread or the feature suggestion thread. That way it's on the radar and doesn't get lost in this thread. |
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So will the SDC price sellers set for items pegged to USD or is it a number they plug in that needs to be changed everytime ShadowCash price rises or declines? Important question. The best choice is that the system automatically updates a seller's item price to reflect current market conditions.
Not best at all, not for the coin. If you want fiat for your item, put it on Ebay. If you want to increase the value of the coin the items have to be denominated in the coin, and that will stabilize the value of the coin by relating it to items of known value. The lower SDC price sellers are willing to accept for their items, the greater the value of SDC relative to fiat and to BTC becomes. Of course, the SDC marketplace is likely to contain a few items not available on Ebay. Sorry, I think you misunderstood me. I don't want fiat but I do have costs to distributors and suppliers. So listing an item on a static system (ie: 1 item for 1,000SDC) where the price doesn't change with the market is not something I want to do. It's a waste of my time to have to check the market prices and then re-enter all the prices potentially every hour on the hour. So if I list @ 1,000 SDC and the market cap of SDC drops I lose money and if it rises customers won't buy it (too expensive). But, if the system is automatic as Cornett says, then my time is much more efficient, customers still get the best deals and I can pay my guys and pull a profit. That's all the question was asking. +1 Make sure to add your feedback on shadowtalk, they tend to get lost in this giant thread. Design thread: http://shadowtalk.org/topic/289/sbay Feature request thread: http://shadowtalk.org/topic/268/shadybay-decentralized-shadowcash-marketplace-listings-and-exchange |
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