The obvious danger with a hugely publicised IPO as this is, that most people willing to invest in Ethereum at least short to medium term will do this via the IPO. Than after the launch who will want to buy people's ether? Will this not inevitably lead to a rapid price drop?
Admittedly I haven't looked into the project deep enough, maybe ether will not be traded?
You are right - so what? Those who are looking to get rich quick will be utterly disappointed by Ethereum.... Except the founders. |
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OK, again, here is what I would do if I had to safely store several hundred thousand bitcoins that my clients gave me for safekeeping.
First, I would create a dozen new addresses and distribute the bitcoins evenly among them. I do not believe in trapdoor functions, and I know what NSA did to that random number generator; so I instead of any "modern" encryption I would use the old and guaranteed one-time-pad method. I would generate a file of truly random bits (say, extracted from the microphone signal), and XOR it with the private keys. Then I would copy the result to a pen drive, check that the copy succeded, safely remove the pendrive (see, I learned my lesson!) I would repeat with a second pendrive and give it to my partner. Then each of us would go to a different bank, on separate cars, and store his pendrive in a safe deposit box. Only then I would go back and reformat the hard drive of my computer.
Do I really need to add the "stupid smiley" here?)
Wow, this is one of the most retarded things I've ever read. And no, its not funny. Jorge, why are you trying so hard to embarass yourself? Is this your way to learn? On a serious note: if you need to safely store bitcoins in an exchange-like setup were they also need to be readily available for withdrawal you just use a hot+cold wallet solution based on Armory. Full stop. |
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[...]
I don't know how many people on this board have experience with markets, investing, or the like outside of BTC. But when something a good/commodity/stock/currency/anything is 80% lower in one place than everywhere else, it's never an "everything is ok" situation. That is a huge discount. It is real life arbitrage in the wild...provided that Mt. Gox is solvent and ok and reliable. But arbitrage is a condition that gets shut down instantly by market forces. Unless it's not arbitrage and is instead a reflection of something else, some other embedded risk. That's what this is -- the market's decentralized invisible hand is saying pretty clearly that there is an 80% chance that Mt. Gox will not be honoring its debts (both USD and BTC) to its customers.
[...]
Yes, as I have said. Good first post. First good post from a newbie or how about anti-gox shill? I have several hundred BTC. I had mined myself since 2011 before it ceased being economic for non-professionals. I have been a Mt. Gox customer and a Coinbase customer as well as a customer of many other Bitcoin services and businesses. I donated to become a lifetime member of the Bitcoin Foundation because Bitcoin is a disruptive, fascinating technology and I'm all on board. I have no relationship with any Bitcoin exchange, but I did attend the Goldman Sachs Technology conference's Bitcoin panel last week, which featured Bitpay, Coinbase, and Ripple. I'm not sure what my angle would be as an anti-Gox shill, unless "anti-Gox" is your own euphemism for pro-Bitcoin. I am absolutely pro-Bitcoin. This is a side project for me. For work, I invest other people's money for a living. For my work, I try as much as possible to ignore what people say and focus on what I can verify. Here in L'Affaire de Gox, I ignore everything Mark says and focus on the numbers -- they give you the most accurate current discount rate for the situation and what is real and what is not. Second to that, I'd look at history and how these numbers and this fact pattern fits in the context of similar situations. Maybe this time is different, but most likely it is not. The way you deal with uncertainty is to focus on the facts and what you know and prepare for the worst, rather than do what sturle counseled or pretend everything will be ok. That is why I counsel people to seek legal remedies now. I readily admit there is a non-zero chance everything works out fine and Mt. Gox is fine in a month -- I hope that that's case because it's better for everyone interested in Bitcoin. It's just that that non-zero chance is indicated at 20% right now. Responsible people should prepare for the other 80%. You, Sir, have nailed it. |
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Do you have any proof of sending 50k to mtgox? This is not speculation is throwing money off the window. You might win, but still it's stupid to do.
 Did you make that deposit today and got it in instantly? Yes I made this today and it should arrive tomorrow based on my previous transactions. It takes about 1 business day for money to arrive. Well done. You will probably buy more than 500 BTC with that amount.. If Gox can pull their shit together you will be looking at a huge instant profit. In other news: my concern is not Gox being insolvent "because they lost the coins". My concerns is they are in VERY deep shit for various reasons and funds might be stuck in there for very long. EUR withdrawals still worked you say? Only smallish ones and VERY slowly. When it takes 6 weeks to process a fiat withdrawal, then something VERY bad is happening. I mean... If I tell to my bank to do a 300k transfer, they do it immediately, and in max. 2/3 days the money arrives to the account where I sent it. If they have to wait WEEKS to be able to send the money, then there is a serious problem somewhere. They won't tell us what is the problem and they make up BS excuses about their "huge volume" overwhelming the banks. In my book, that's very worrying. |
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Amazed by the amount of people saying they don't use 2FA.
Seriously guys, WTF? How difficult is to download Google Auth on your phone and to set up the 2FA on your exchange account?
Why do you try so hard to be the low-hanging fruit and thus to be hacked?
WHY???
I guess i'm not the only one who worries about losing the phone and doesn't really know how to keep backups of the 2FA stuff properly. Really? That's like saying that you leave the door of your house open just in case you lose your keys. Again: WTF? Backing up a 2FA token is the easiest thing in the world: when you set it up, you get a secret code in both numeric form and as a handy QR code. You just print that page, and you keep it together with your important documents. It's really as easy as it gets. |
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I have quit reading this thread due to high volume and very low signal to noise ratio. Just stopping by announce that my 10k EUR withdrawal from January 4th changed to pending today, and will arrive tomorrow. I have cancelled my other withdrawals to buy BTC.
Please re-consider. There needs to be a voice of reason in this mad house. I'm sure I'm not alone in appreciating your input. What in his input do you appreciate the most? Surely you understand that by following his advice, I would have lost about 1 million dollars compared to my biting the bullet and losing "only" 150k?Of all the people outside Mt.Gox, sturle bears perhaps the most responsibility of the untold millions that ordinary people lost by listening this lulling voice of "reason". While I've been one of sturle's most vocal critics since mid-summer, I strongly disagree on him being responsible of anything. I defended Gox myself until they crapped on a smallish 5 figures FIAT withdrawal and after 5 weeks of absurd wait and BS excuses about how their "huge" (LOL) volume was "overwhelming the traditional banking system", I decided to cancel the withdrawal, buy BTC and leave that exchange for good. Because of people like me, we had that huge spread between Gox and the other exchanges. My original point still remains: there's no way a small/medium business like Gox is "overwhelming" a bank, I work with banks every day and if you have the money you can steadily move it - that's the freaking business models of banks, they CHARGE you for that, and imposing absurd daily limits is a way of putting a cap to their income. That's BS and only an ignorant would believe that the reason is "the huge volume" which is putting pressure on the bank. If you cannot move your money something VERY BAD is happening, name it insolvency or law enforcement action or whatever, but it's damn sure that its not because you are "overwhelming" their system. Thus, MtGox has been lying and making up bullshit excuses for months, many red flags have been raised, and the only ones responsible for having funds locked up on Gox are: a) Gox itself (pretty obvious), because of their lack of transparence and their lousy/amateurish business practices (or let's say because they lied and took their customers for fools) b) those who continued using gox despite the many serious red flags we have seen in the last months. If by chance Gox has a real solvency issue because of law enforcement action, incompetence, or any other reason (which one its irrelevant: red flags are still red flags), you can be sure I will make fun of Sturles for months; but you can also be very sure that I will consider him responsible for nothing. He just gave his opinion, with which I strongly disagree - but that's it. Risto: you willingly trusted your funds to Gox despite of having first hand knowledge of the hard cold facts. Money in? No problem. Money out? hmmmm... Soon. |
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Amazed by the amount of people saying they don't use 2FA.
Seriously guys, WTF? How difficult is to download Google Auth on your phone and to set up the 2FA on your exchange account?
Why do you try so hard to be the low-hanging fruit and thus to be hacked?
WHY???
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You've been goxxed... Again. https://www.mtgox.com/img/pdf/20140220-Announcement.pdf" Tokyo, Japan, February 20th, 2014 Dear MtGox Customers, Thank you for your patience this week while we are working on re-initiating bitcoin withdrawals. In addition to the technical issue, this week we have experienced some security problems, and as a result we had to relocate MtGox to our previous office building in Shibuya (details can be found here https://support.mtgox.com/home). The move, combined with some other security and technical challenges, pushed back our progress. As much as we didn’t want to only provide an “update on an update”, this is the current status. We are committed to solving this issue and will provide more information as soon as possible to keep everyone in the loop. We are very sorry for the delays and deeply appreciate your kind understanding and continuous support. Best regards, MtGox Team  |
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EuroTrash: it looks extremely creepy to me, not funny at all. It looks very deranged to me...
But I guess it's just a matter of tastes
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Did you check the "about us"? Their biographies are exactly the same WORD BY WORD. It's like they are one person with two bodies, no unique experiences or motivations or whatever. CAMERON WINKLEVOSS
Chief Executive Officer
@WINKLEVOSS
Cameron Winklevoss is a long-term investor in Bitcoin and other emerging technologies. In 2004, he graduated from Harvard University with an A.B. in Economics. In 2010, Mr. Winklevoss received a Masters of Business Administration from the Saïd Business School at the University of Oxford. Mr. Winklevoss represented the United States at the 2008 Olympic Games in Beijing, China.
TYLER WINKLEVOSS
President
@TYLERWINKLEVOSS
Tyler Winklevoss is a long-term investor in Bitcoin and other emerging technologies. In 2004, he graduated from Harvard University with an A.B. in Economics. In 2010, Mr. Winklevoss received a Masters of Business Administration from the Saïd Business School at the University of Oxford. Mr. Winklevoss represented the United States at the 2008 Olympic Games in Beijing, China. How fucking creepy is that? |
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Nice find. When did this to live? |
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Why are people taking huge dumps on bitstamp?
early arb? insider trading? welcome to btc |
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Anybody else noticed that Jorge is a sort of rpietila antagonist?
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It is my understanding that a lot (most?) of the regulars here have fonzie on ignore (I don’t ignore anyone) so I won’t quote him, but he actually made a non-trolly post a few pages ago (his post was in the midst of the barbequing of Jorge). He, fonzie, has a misunderstanding, but it is worth exploring for the benefit of those new to our tech coin.
The essential point of the post by fonzie was that it shouldn’t matter what the current exchange price for XBT is. He used the $1 - $100 figures. And, to be fair, he’s right that the protocol will work as well with a value of one cent or ten thousand dollars. But, the protocol works best if there are many, distributed, nodes who individually test and verify the contents of the blocks.
The biggest problem, fonzie, is that at $100 per coin, many miners will unplug their equipment. Granted the vast majority of them will be small hashraters like me, but I believe that a good percentage of the larger miners will examine their hole cards and shut down too. If that is true then you would be left with the very largest miners in control of the blockchain and that may or may not be a good thing. The arguments against consolidation of mining can be found in other sub-fora so I don’t need to get into that except to say that I personally think it would not end well.
As a day trader one need not be overly concerned by the current price, only the direction and velocity matters. As a miner, the USD 700 level seems to be about the minimum level for (my) continuing operations. A little below that can be subsidized out-of-pocket for a short period. Much below that and the decision to unplug is easy. In my case, if the exchange price goes below $500, and stays there for a month, then I will have made my choice. Newer miners, with more expensive equipment, may reach their magic number sooner.
So, fonzie, I submit that the price does matter.
What gear r u using? My 28nm ASICs would be profitable even below $100. And for those manufacturing their own gear, probably even below $20. |
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the butthurt of late adopters is sweet, sweet nectar
True from one side, but pretty annoying to see how they keep repeating over and over the same "arguments" that have been used (and debunked) since the mid-2011 crash. |
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+1 Wow... you are really an early adopter. Congrats! Especially those who reserved a couple million bitcoins for themselves at the beginning, and thus (like the "me" in my parable) have invested nothing and will walk out with a fortune.
Satoshi invested NOTHING? He only invested his/their lifetime to learning to code, learning about currency and cryptography. He invested his intelligence, reputation, time and money into creating software for the entire world to use freely. If he invested nothing into Bitcoin then you invested nothing in becoming a University Professor. Once he created the software he mined <4000 coins (80 blocks @ 50BTC reward, basically testing the software) before releasing it to the world. Note this was several years before 10,000 coins would even buy a pizza. Satoshi risked the cost of his electricity to mine worthless "ledger coins." "When Satoshi announced the first release of the software, I grabbed it right away. I think I was the first person besides Satoshi to run bitcoin. I mined block 70-something, and I was the recipient of the first bitcoin transaction, when Satoshi sent ten coins to me as a test. I carried on an email conversation with Satoshi over the next few days, mostly me reporting bugs and him fixing them." - Hal Finney, on block number https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=155054.0I'm generously using 80 since Hal's "70-something" could be 79. Other sources claim blocks as early as 12 may have been mined by others: http://bitslog.wordpress.com/2013/04/24/satoshi-s-fortune-a-more-accurate-figure/Original block reward was 50 coins: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_BitcoinAnd of course Satoshi continued mining after that. It was his project afterall. In the beginning if he didn't use it, who would? The rewards came fast back then and he accumulated many before apparent stopping. It is believed his stash is unspent but who knows for sure, and why would it matter? He deserves every penny for his innovation. No. Read again. Hal Finney is. |
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I can't wait to see all of you dumping coins and taking a huge painful loss.
You will learn the lesson the hard way.
Irony? New coins give not bad profit, by the way.  only need to know when to buy and when to sell) that's all Yep, you just need to be the very first in and the very first out - like in all ponzi schemes. |
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Digital anarchy!!!  you mean digital capitalism. property rights and anarchy are pretty much the opposite. if you don't understand anything, just ask. That's not 100% accurate, unless you are confusing "property rights" with "private ownership of the means of production" which is generally referred in Marxism as "private property". Most original archists (Bakunin, Sorel, Proudhon... Even Kropotkin) were not against "personal property" (or "possession"), they were opposed to "private property" as all the thinkers influenced by the works of Karl Marx. To clarify: Personal property (or "possessions") = your house, your clothes, your kids toys, etc. The vast majority of anarchists were totally OK with personal property and agreed that nobody has the right to take that from you. Even communists agreed on that. Private property = the land, the factory, etc. Anarchists believed that the owners of the means of production should be the workers themselves. If you are working a certain piece of land, then you decide directly what you do with the fruit of your labor. Nobody else can (not even the "state" or "the party" as communist say). If you are working for somebody else (a boss, or the state, or whatever) then you are "alienated" and inherently not free. But yes, if what you meant is that anarchism and capitalism are pretty much the opposite, then you are right - in fact anarchism was born precisely as a reaction against capitalist society. Capitalism just means "an economic system in which industry and the means of production are controlled by private owners" (that's the first line on "capitalism" on Wikipedia - a definition first used precisely by Karl Marx), and anarchism was strongly opposed to that. Just do not tell this to the US folks reading this forum who have had their brain washed by Rothbard's absurd "anarcho-capitalist" theory, which is pure and simply an oxymoron (don't know if he was trolling or just a retarded, but his "work" made quite an impact on US culture). Anarchism is about absolute freedom - no RULER, and that means no STATE and no BOSSES (private or public) and no WAGE SLAVERY. No coercition at all. That's the very foundation of anarchism - being anti-capitalist. If you have to do what someone else wants you to do in order to earn a salary, then that's the opposite of what Anarchism means. Last but not least, Bitcoin has NOTHING to do with "digital anarchy". (mods: sorry for the offtopic. Please move this to the appropiate subforum if you think its necessary). |
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