if the government just takes coin, for no legal ethical reason.. then yea theft
but if someone else steal coin or uses coin in a crime and is then caught, where those coins are then seized by a gov/court..
or if a company files bankruptcy.. then its just admin/bureaucracy to take control of the coin and decide who deserves payouts later

japan courts had admin control of coin due to bankruptcy and finding previous stolen coin. they didnt just take it and sell it for themselves(like a tax). japan court is still DECADE LATER deciding on pay out dates to creditors. so SOME amount is going to be distributed out.. as with how fiat laws work

its more nuanced then that.
the bonds never need to be settled, they just roll them over into another 10 year bond, so they never need to 'always pay its bills'
they are in the game of 'interest only' payments

however an extra trillion bonds($3.35trill new money(debt)) becomes an extra 2%-5% interest only payout($67-$167.5bill)
which can keep the extra $3.35trill in circulation for 20-50 years via interest only
but can earn a government X% per year from taxes of each participant of those handling the money as it shuffles through the population as income/gains/profits etc.

however they need to be raising the ceiling to get money reserves up higher to cover all the pensions amounts(locked as unrealised shares not money) that are earning gains of far higher than the inflation money print is doing
(if a pension fund is accruing 8% on a $300k per capita($24k per year). but the money print is only accruing $10k per capita($3.35trill/335m pop), then a bottleneck will occur when people try to take a 25% lump sum of their pension shares which cant sell, due to lack of funds to perform such large sells)

the next financial crisis will be of pensions

firstly todays "debt" becomes tomorrows GDP

secondly the 34+trillion is not M0-M2 money in normal citizen hands circulation.
the banks/institutions and government need/want to raise the ceiling of money printing and push it into the background economy of the institutional circulation(to avoid citizen level hyper inflation)
because the top tiers of derivatives and institutional investment products are valuated at hundreds of trillions so needs to see there is enough "dollars printed" to even come close to enough reserves to cover payouts if those top tier investments were to ever sell out of their positions without causing a massive economic crash(pensioner boom reach retirement age and choose to take lump sum, but not enough money available to cover cash-out(risk))

yep they need to fill the pockets of top tier institutions reserves, to keep all the trillions of pension/private investments within fair market value for when people sell out/claim pensions
(average m0-m1 'savings/spending accounts) per US citizen ~$25k =$8.4trill)
(average m2-m3 'retirement/investments accounts) per US citizen ~$300k =$100trill)

from my memory the mtgox creditors wanted all payouts converted to BTC
this meant that the ~141k btc + dollar found + all forked coin airdrops get converted to BTC
(bankruptcy administrator buys btc with dollar and converts forked air-drops to btc to be a total far bigger then the ~141k btc base amount the bankruptcy found) so total BTC accumulated/held by bankruptcy administrator could be way higher than reported, but they have to release based on japanese gov(court order)

laws are just paper, and code does not have eyes to read paper.. so code doesnt care about laws or borders
however humans and CEO's can
laws are for the peoples use of a product/assets, its not about laws enforced on the product

its for the regulated exchanges to not accept dodgy crypto unless the crypto has been vetted
EG a ICO cant just get listed on a regulated CEX unless the ICO creator registers his ICO, and the regulated CEX files for approval also
(much the same approval process to do ETF shares)

so if some european homeless guy creating a  dodgy crypto wants to have his coin seen on US coinbase market he has to register his crypto as a US security(much like the ETF share process) and then file some papers with coinbase where coinbase then files with SEC and then sec approves the crypto to be traded and launched on coinbase .. much the same as the ETF process

this then also means. filing with other countries (much like we cant just in the UK buy US shares of bitcoin ETF as its not approved in the UK, the UK now need to offer a vetting process for exchanges to offer securities in the UK)

gensler said years ago due to bitcoin not being a product of a company its not a security so gets to skip the hurdles (grandfatherd in)
however now, with most coins declared as security they have to go through a vetting process to appear as marketable products on a CEX

in short, no more anonymous ICO crapcoin's appearing on regulated US exchanges unless ICO creator de-anonymises themselves in the application stage to get approval

..
you may also be aware from january 2024 that companies/trusts cannot stay anonymous via proxy trustee's/beneficiaries being shell companies and must register the real human owner of company/trusts
(ref: federal corporation transparency act(FCTA)beneficiary ownership information(BOI))

..
an example would be if ETH is security(mainnet eth, not subnetwork tokens) then vitalik will need to incorporate and Dox himself fully and go through a process and pay lience fee's and lawyers to get accepted on exchanges in the US

most of 1fee's activity stemmed from mtgox hack in 2011.. but other schemes since have come about since

anyways.........
.. topic:
landfill guy wont get coin nor rich from any lawsuit, he shoulda just reinvested in the 2014 correction

japanese gov(courts) had control of more coin than US, and from just one source (mtgox bankruptcy)

not all exchanges all hit the ATH, nor at same moment.
couple years a go one exchange did hit above $69k whilst majority hung around the ~$68.5k average

so although then and now had a final top bidder above $69k most of people round down/up given enough time, reason, excuses

it dont matter what one exchange records. as exchanges have always recorded their own prices both now and before.. its more of the social sentiment plus passage of time, of what people end up rounding things to and that becomes the narrative.

EG
did you know after the 2013 ATH, the correction actually went below $100 due to MTGox closed deals. yet if you check any of the "historic" price charts the social sentiment that designed the charts ignores the depths MTGox landed at on its closing, (meaning they excluded the lows MTGox recorded)

same went for the 2021 high. some went above $69k but on average of multiple exchanges of $68.5k most just say $68500 for social sentiment
and given time, some will round todays top too

when people notice a previous pattern. and to many do.. they all start pre planning that pattern and thus end up breaking the pattern

also the ETF changed the paradigm too, although now the market is reacting by bringing the price down to not cause too much breakage from the pattern

oh and the top price was actually a little higher than $69k in 2021, but the average of exchanges just classed it as a 2021 rounded number of $69k
so its not a complete break of the pattern

the other reasons for calling them securities is that they represent a end product of a underlying ownership of something. meaning when someone makes a crap coin ICO the ICO creator has to register his release/system/airdrop..(much like ETF had to apply to offer shares(securities) of bitcoin)

by gensler saying bitcoin is not security he is not trying to treat bitcoin as a offering thats owned by some company that needs registering. but instead the secondary token/pegged/IOU units/shares are securities, thus bitcoin can escape the registration stuff of releasing new coin, but the secondary offchain stuff pegged to it would need to register their creations to meet regulatory conditions, when services/exchanges intend to accept/trade them

whereby if an exchange is trading an unregistered security the exchange can be slapped with a fine.. as can the ICO/token/iou-peg creator also

check out

1LdRcdxfbSnmCYYNdeYpUnztiYzVfBEQeC   53,880 BTC ($3,548,196,393)   
1AC4fMwgY8j9onSbXEWeH6Zan8QGMSdmtA   51,830 BTC ($3,413,218,644)   
1Ay8vMC7R1UbyCCZRVULMV7iQpHSAbguJP   51,165 BTC ($3,369,382,896)
1LruNZjwamWJXThX2Y8C2d47QqhAkkc5os   44,000 BTC ($2,897,564,272)

as for the 1fee's spambot
everyone knows those coins were scammed/stolen.
so by producing soo much dust im guessing the guy will snip off some coin to smaller hoards on different addresses and just claim one day when cashing out "not me sir, im not the hacker, some rando paid me, look he pays everyone something"

you are doubling down again. saying you never said X.. but then saying it.. X could be a classified experiment
i again correct you that bitcoin is code and code that can be read..

its like you are trying to say magnesium is not the classified experiment but the experiment of magnesium is the classified experiment
(facepalm)

you are still (analogy) trying to insinuate magnesium is part of a conspiracy, so still doubling down and saying there is some classified stuff related to bitcoin. and i keep saying.. just read the code. read the conversations
you then rebutt that the technical/discussion/conversations of satoshi in public are meaningless conjecture so you start suggesting to ignore the stuff he did say just so you can push a fantasy 'what if'

the issue is that these fantasies, end up going viral and start causing idiots like CSW to come out of the woodwork, or other people forming cults and believing silly fantasy of admiring idols.. rather than sticking to facts. and we have seen over the years how these idiocies manifest and turn out

[4 people out of 30 think satoshi worked for nsa(facepalm)]

---

the thing is bitcoin does not use NISTS already compiled dependency files.. people actually went out of their way to re-write ECDSA and libsecp256k1 to be open source, so that people can review, scrutinise and compile clean code...
alot of people looked into why the curve formulae y² = x³ + 7 was chosen too

so all the talk about back doors becomes moot points due to 15 years of bug testing, review, and even battle testing the code


with that said people need to review the code periodically, especially even now with devs making changes, to highlight and scrutinise if devs now create weaknesses in the code, softening the ruleset, backdoors, exploits, bugs and such. we should not just be aimlessly saying 'well it was peer reviewed in 2009-2011, and was clean' to then think we should turn to religion and belief and trust that its still clean now and in the future, based on trust of dev gold idolisms

..
reality is.. instead of fantasy stories of 'what if 15years ago' (which has been debunked by many actually doing research, review).. but instead look at the now of reality..
bitcoin had 15 years of review to show the lack of backdoor in the original code. but that should not then be used to suggest it will always be clean code due to old review.. nor should it be suggested if new code found now/future is dirty, to then suggest blaming someone 15 years ago was part of conspiracy..
its highly more likely the funding of devs today could be put into a more plausible conspiracy context

---

ulbricht didnt get prison time for using bitcoin. bitcoin was not his crime
he got prison time for facilitating drug deals and profiting from it.. oh and organising 'hits' on people
much the same as any 'cottaging' (drug den) where a house thats used to do drug deals. if the house owner knows and ALLOWS and facilitates and take fee's from every deal done in the drug house.. they would get same punishment, no matter the currency used

using a different currency does not change the laws..
bitcoin does not obfuscate/immunise people from crimes/laws..

not sure why you are referencing the video, to then get triggered..
the video is saying what america, europe say:
"if you come to US/EU(or china) learn the language, learn the laws and culture and learn a skill to work"
"if you come with a radical mindset trying to change/affect others to cause harm or make them mentally ill too, expect consequences"
basically if your a radical, expect radical consequence

if a celebrity already has millions, thus his lifestyle is secure.. an extra million achieves no extra benefit..
.. however money that comes with terms/conditions that interrupt someones lifestyle actually has a negative effect and can wreck his lifestyle more than not taking the money

im sorry to inform you but they cant even get to visit the titanic successfully with humans in a capsule


its feasible now.. due to re-using rockets, the cost of getting capsules into space has been proven affordable compared to how much weight the payload of rocket can return with.
the only thing stopping space mining is the infrastructure being in space where they can refine the rock into more pure rare elements to then return to earth with a light payload that is not 99.9% rock:0.1% rare element,
which at a 100tonne payload of rare element could be worth billions per round trip IF refined in space, where only pure form returns to earth..
(carrying just unrefined asteroid rock, would be like 0.1tonne of gold (3527.4oz@$2k=$7m) so not worth the trip)
(carrying just basic-refined asteroid rock5% purity, would be like 5tonne of gold (176,370oz@$2k=$352.7m) so not worth the trip)
(carrying semi-refined asteroid rock50% purity, would be like 50tonne of gold (1,763,700oz@$2k=$3.527b) so worth the trip)
(carrying refined rare earth elements 99.9% purity, would be like 100tonne of gold (3,527,400oz@$2k=$7b) so worth the trip)

they just have to get the infrastructure up there + a couple of engineers(maintenance guys to repair the automated drills and refineries)
and ofcourse first need to find a water source for basecamp up in space as fuel and hydration

so its technically feasible and affordable. just takes time to implement

if you look at everything recently
the Mars rovers small scale core drilling samples of test tube size amounts is a sandbox test of remote commanded mining
Elon musks 'boring company' is other R&D, as is his solar, his electric car and space X

funny part is in this topic i have corrected details, explained things, whilst doomad and the leez hmmMaa trolls just here for the drama

side note leez/HmmMaa and doomad enjoy other networks they want to consider to be called bitcoin networks
theres the BSV and the Msat IOU(LN) crew of trolls.. two cultish groups all wanting to recruit actual bitcoin(btc) people away from bitcoin, advertising their admiration of their godlike idols that made their favourite other networks

if only those three actually took the time to learn what bitcoin actually is rather then cry about how their recruitment plans are not working out
doomads cult is getting just as bad as the CSW cult

as long as none of the coins/tokens are deemed security when moved peer to peer (buying goods or services)

the regulator have control of categorisation when used on regulated MoneyServiceBusinesses (CEX)/locked for use on tradfi stock markets..
..but should not strictly classify all use-cases as security or commodity without exception when not used in services that require regulation

you debunked yourself at the very start

bitcoin did not use the compiled dependancy file released by NIST
instead coders wrote their own open source code for features such as ECDSA

and for decades people have been reviewing the code, and checking again with each update.
though yes we should continue scrutinising the code per update to review for changes. rather then blind trusting core devs 'coz it was clean in 20xx"

by them saying "secondary tokens" meaning end product.. those would be securities(when sold in a CEX).. whereby, the "primary" coin, which the secondary tokens are a peg of, the primary coin is classed as a commodity in that case(when custodianed/locked to offer secondary units)

EG ethereum producing secondary tokens makes the token a security and eth becomes the commodity of the token
and thats where regulators get things wrong when trying to overstep and be too broad in classifications in regards to bitcoin vs eth. which both have ability to produce subnetwork tokens.. but mainnet coins should only be treated as commodity if said coin is locked and used as a secondary subnetwork token producer

however, how those end product use cases should not all be blasted as one class, as their end utility may be different. EG not have all utility thrown into the cap gains category, but be adjustable dependant on utility to be in different tax classifications and regulation treatment(when not used in a custodian/cex/regulated service)

(money on FOREX markets is regulated differently than money in retail commerce market of goods/services)

first they came for the uninstitutioned transfers of fiat.. to do crypto swaps
then they came directly for the crypto swaps

technically
when a asset is being used as a end product its a security
when its used as a raw item used to create other end products its a commodity

EG
gold can be a commodity and a security asset depending on which market it sits on(how its used/viewed/treated within a market)

gold sold as a antique ornament at auction can be treated as a security for holders insurance and income/inheritance tax purposes
gold bars sold for industrial use can be treated as a commodity for traders/industry tax purposes

so coinbase trading bitcoin for fiat is a security
coinbase prime custodianising bitcoin to be used as a ETF share makes those bitcoin a commodity, the share becomes the security
other CEX custodianising bitcoin to be used as a peg for subnetwork units makes those bitcoin a commodity, the subnetwork unit is the security

emphasis
bitcoin doing fiat to bitcoin swaps is a security,
but if its locked up to then peg off to a subnetwork or ETF to offer different units of measure
bitcoin is then a commodity and its subsystem pegged unit is the security

however by regulators trying to define all utility no matter the purpose as one variety of class.. is an overstep and a naive oversight.

its like money
if its used to pay someone within family, its treated a certain way for tax purposes (gift/inheritance)
if its used to pay an employee from an employer it s treated a different way for tax purposes (income tax)
if its received by a business from a customer sale it is treated a different way for tax purposes (corporation tax)
when using money as collateral for a loan, its treated differently again for tax purposes(loans are zero tax rated)
when money is locked into a pension fund, its treated differently again for tax purposes
when used to buy goods/services by a customer its treated differently again(sales tax)