Could you show me where in this thread I said that BFL getting a bunch of refund requests would be good for BFL?
Sure can. You said it here: Again, following the idea of this hypothetical if all orders were refunded, new customers would be lining up to give BFL money as they already have been - with the added bonus of no more people in front of them any more.
and here: This entire post is based on a hypothetical. An absurd one at that, which would have the exact opposite effect of what it foolishly intended.
and here: My argument is also leveraging the past history where BFL refunds aren't given out instantly, but over the course of a few days. '
So, more simply, if $5 million (or whatever number you want to put here) goes out on the 14th, the current demand in the market for ASICs would easily dictate 5 million+ being right back on BFL's books before the 21st when all of those refunds were sent.
I guess now that the refunds are actually beginning to show up, you guys have start working to get that "$5 million right back on BFL's books". I am glad you are not dodging this conversation like you were the earlier one. PSA: If you have ordered from BFL and have not yet received your product, you are entitled to a refund whenever you request one (per FTC rules). First ask BFL for one, they will probably say no but you might get lucky. If you ordered via PayPal you can file a complaint with PayPal even if you are outside the 45 day window. One customer has already gotten a refund from PayPal that was outside the 45 days. If you ordered via BTC or Bank wire, you can fill out a complaint with the FTC and they will advocate for you with BFL to get your refund. |
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I will simply state that while you have been fed up with haters, I have been fed up with sycophants.
You think I got my unit cuz I've defended them multiple times on these forums? No, I got my unit cuz I had one of the very first pre-orders on the list. There was no "random" lottery that got my unit out the door first. Sorry, but try again. Standard Operating Procedure in BFL forum topics: If Not Outwardly Pro-BFL, user is either: A. Troll B. Douchebag Months from now, when all BFL users are happily hashing away trying desperately to recoup half their money, we can finally put BFL to rest. I wonder how the BFL wallet hockey pucks they announced at the Bitcoin conference in May are doing? I totally wrote that. Oops. Did I leave out: C, Liar Sorry. Apology for embarrassing BFL accepted. Again. Is there a procedure for how you decide whether to go with A, B, or C? Or is that a BFL trade secret? I am being paid to derail BFL threads and shill for them. 3 more posts and I get a free Jalapeno. Yes yes. We get it. You love BFL and feel threatened by something and are lashing out. There there little fanboi, it will all be over soon. I am so tired of being wrong. I stated in this thread stating that BFL would profit from everyone asking for refunds. Now I have been proven to be an idiot and I am grumpy. It was impossible to convince you back then, so what changed? Was it BFL stopping all refunds after people started asking for them? Was it PayPal honoring refunds even past the 45 days? Was it the FTC rules about having to refund if someone asks when you have not shipped them their product? Or is there some new dark bit of news out of BFL land? |
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I will simply state that while you have been fed up with haters, I have been fed up with sycophants.
You think I got my unit cuz I've defended them multiple times on these forums? No, I got my unit cuz I had one of the very first pre-orders on the list. There was no "random" lottery that got my unit out the door first. Sorry, but try again. Standard Operating Procedure in BFL forum topics: If Not Outwardly Pro-BFL, user is either: A. Troll B. Douchebag Months from now, when all BFL users are happily hashing away trying desperately to recoup half their money, we can finally put BFL to rest. I wonder how the BFL wallet hockey pucks they announced at the Bitcoin conference in May are doing? I totally wrote that. Oops. Did I leave out: C, Liar Sorry. Apology for embarrassing BFL accepted. Again. Is there a procedure for how you decide whether to go with A, B, or C? Or is that a BFL trade secret? I am being paid to derail BFL threads and shill for them. 3 more posts and I get a free Jalapeno. Yes yes. We get it. You love BFL and feel threatened by something and are lashing out. There there little fanboi, it will all be over soon. |
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I will simply state that while you have been fed up with haters, I have been fed up with sycophants.
You think I got my unit cuz I've defended them multiple times on these forums? No, I got my unit cuz I had one of the very first pre-orders on the list. There was no "random" lottery that got my unit out the door first. Sorry, but try again. Standard Operating Procedure in BFL forum topics: If Not Outwardly Pro-BFL, user is either: A. Troll B. Douchebag Months from now, when all BFL users are happily hashing away trying desperately to recoup half their money, we can finally put BFL to rest. I wonder how the BFL wallet hockey pucks they announced at the Bitcoin conference in May are doing? I totally wrote that. Oops. Did I leave out: C, Liar Sorry. Apology for embarrassing BFL accepted. Again. Is there a procedure for how you decide whether to go with A, B, or C? Or is that a BFL trade secret? |
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I will simply state that while you have been fed up with haters, I have been fed up with sycophants.
You think I got my unit cuz I've defended them multiple times on these forums? No, I got my unit cuz I had one of the very first pre-orders on the list. There was no "random" lottery that got my unit out the door first. Sorry, but try again. Standard Operating Procedure in BFL forum topics: If Not Outwardly Pro-BFL, user is either:
A. Troll
B. DouchebagMonths from now, when all BFL users are happily hashing away trying desperately to recoup half their money, we can finally put BFL to rest. I wonder how the BFL wallet hockey pucks they announced at the Bitcoin conference in May are doing? I didn't write that. Fabricating again? Oops. Did I leave out: C, Liar Sorry. And why are the BFL fanbois swirling around these threads again? Why aren't you all high-fiving and drinking champagne over at forums.butterflylabs.com? After all BFL (according to you) is doing awesome, its customers are happy, and pre-orders are flowing in. Right? Why do you all suddenly feel the need to play spin doctor here now? Is there trouble in paradise? |
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I will simply state that while you have been fed up with haters, I have been fed up with sycophants.
You think I got my unit cuz I've defended them multiple times on these forums? No, I got my unit cuz I had one of the very first pre-orders on the list. There was no "random" lottery that got my unit out the door first. Sorry, but try again. Standard Operating Procedure in BFL forum topics: If Not Outwardly Pro-BFL, user is either: A. Troll B. Douchebag Months from now, when all BFL users are happily hashing away trying desperately to recoup half their money, we can finally put BFL to rest. I wonder how the BFL wallet hockey pucks they announced at the Bitcoin conference in May are doing? |
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Now what, playing the sentimental game? Want a tap on the back, good boy? wtf Larry the "afro-american"? Is that some special qualification?
How are those BFL sample chips tasting? How many TMWs has it been? In other news, everyone who has an order with BFL can get a refund until they receive their unit. Contact BFL, if they don't comply, contact PayPal. If you didn't order via PayPal fill out a complaint with the FTC and then forward that to BFL as well. You will get your refund if BFL hasn't yet shipped your products to you. |
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In the meantime BFL delivered more devices and THash than Avalon did in all their batches combined. Bye!
Avalon has delivered at least 60 TH/s now that batch 2 has shipped. BFL has delivered a few mini-rigs, a few dozen singles, and a few hundred Jalapenos. Until BFL makes double digits in the mini-rigs (the full 1.5TH/s in 3 units), they won't catch up. Even 500 singles and 1000 Jalapenos would only get them half way there. And since nobody knows how many units BFL has shipped besides BFL and they are not telling anyone, it can't be very good news. Avalon was very late with their second batch, and is extremely late with batch 3. Disappointing. |
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If only I had a satoshi for every newly minted Bitcoin enthusiast who justified purchasing mining hardware by saying the price of Bitcoins was going to rise.
They are still living with the GPU mindset when you could recoup some of your costs by selling your equipment if mining didn't pan out. No such easy way out for the math-illiterates this time around. Math is only as good as the assumptions it is based on. ASICMiner USBs will continue to outproduce their electrical costs until the network hits about 95 petahashes. Even if all the rumored hardware is true, we'll be lucky to see 20 petahashes within a year. Who is going to pay for 5-10X more hardware than is already planned? Are there that many "math-illiterates"? That said, the window is indeed narrowing. I predict your first year of mining will bring you 0.45 BTC for each stick you have. Lets necro this thread in a year and run a regression against the actual difficulty rises.  Sure. Put it on your calendar if you want. For my customer (I'm just operating for a fee) to lose that much, we would need to see the network at roughly 128 Petahashes/second within one year of the date these started mining (July 3rd). That's a lot of hashpower, considering the entire bitcoin network, plus all the planned (preorder plus not yet sold) ASICs comes to around 3-5 petahashes at the moment. How many more suckers do you think there are if the devices are already unprofitable? By my calculations ~200 TH/s got us to 26M difficulty. My projections put the difficulty at between 500M - 700M in 52 weeks time. That would require between 3900TH/s and 5400TH/s to achieve that difficulty. That is within your "planned ASICs" window. The current margins on mining devices cannot be supported over the longer term. Second generation ASICs which are far cheaper and more efficient are coming online soon. Right now, there is no company that can fulfill demand. Everyone is back-ordered and margins are fat because of this. The next generation of mining equipment companies should be able to build and ship product far better than BFL or Avalon could. |
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If only I had a satoshi for every newly minted Bitcoin enthusiast who justified purchasing mining hardware by saying the price of Bitcoins was going to rise.
They are still living with the GPU mindset when you could recoup some of your costs by selling your equipment if mining didn't pan out. No such easy way out for the math-illiterates this time around. Math is only as good as the assumptions it is based on. ASICMiner USBs will continue to outproduce their electrical costs until the network hits about 95 petahashes. Even if all the rumored hardware is true, we'll be lucky to see 20 petahashes within a year. Who is going to pay for 5-10X more hardware than is already planned? Are there that many "math-illiterates"? That said, the window is indeed narrowing. I predict your first year of mining will bring you 0.45 BTC for each stick you have. Lets necro this thread in a year and run a regression against the actual difficulty rises. |
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Boom. Even my pessimistic 1.5% growth per day is proving too optimistic.  |
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Watching. Not commenting.
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For those thinking they can't receive a refund, you may want to call Paypal (assuming that's how you paid).
The surprisingly nice Paypal rep said that normally they don't offer buyers protection after 45 days but because the account was a long standing account they would do it (opened in 2005). About an hour later, the status on my BFL order was changed to 'Refunded'.
For those of you who have ordered less than 45 days ago and would like to keep the Paypal refund option available to you after 45 days, you need to contact Paypal before the 45th day window is up and let them know you haven't yet received your order. That way they will track the status and your refund will be eligible after the 45 days are up.
That is great info. PayPal does have it's advantages sometimes.  I know, I know, it is heresy to speak such praises of PayPal on bitcointalk.org. /flees the pitchfork and torch bearing mob |
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What BFL chips?
^This. And BFL already tried this with the Jalapeno and they had completely change the case from their designs. The chips just create way too much heat. So you need a big heat sink with a big fan which means a case roughly the size of the actual Jalapeno. At that point, you may as well use the Jala board and only put one chip in it. |
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Except when I post facts, I link to them like in this post and in this post and this post. That way, I can link to them again to dispel nonsense from folks like you. When you complain that I never post facts, you of course could not supply citations to back up your assertions. Here I am having to post the basic facts to yet another freshly minted BFL fanboi. All you have is one witless comeback, which is more sad than funny since it is defending BFL (who has once again stopped shipping product). The first one was basically an "Apples grow hanging from trees you say, well here's a picture of a pineapple plant, therefore, those apples can't grow like that." No. But thanks for playing. To stick with your crippled analogy, I posted what a healthy apple tree looks like. BFL claims to be a healthy apple tree too, but they don't look like other healthy apple trees. In fact, they look decidedly unhealthy to the trained eye. Which is not to say that you can't get a few apples off them. The apples might even taste good. But don't bet the plantation on that tree delivering. The second two actually seem to be supporting BFLs official position, so therefore there were actual facts available
Your reading comprehension fails. The first post demonstrates that BFL's refund policy was at odds with PayPals (and other major retailers). I posted links to PayPals refund policy which refunds you in the currency you paid and using the exchange rate at the time of purchase (not at the time of the refund like BFL was doing). Now the question is moot since BFL has suspended all refunds (which is a violation of the FTC's rules but that is another thread). The second post was to counter an assertion that BFL just mingled all the funds together and spent them on development and that is why they couldn't keep the BTC. BFL said they would keep all pre-order funds segregated from operating funds. If that is so why would they convert the BTC when they might need to refund it? It has been 130 days since BFL started shipping and they have not yet shipped 130 days worth of orders.
Your math sucks if you're counting from Luke Jr's single. Good catch, I don't know why I typed 130 instead of 100. Low on coffee I guess. Let me fix that, It has been 100 days since BFL started shipping (april 1st) and they have not yet shipped 100 days worth of orders. That is still a terribly grim statistic given how fast the difficulty has been rising. |
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Collecting data for CPU comparison takes time, there are so many models.
In the meantime, I put together a table calculating how many GH/s can be put on a wafer with chips we know:
wafer (mm) chip process (nm) die(mm^2) chip GH/s dpw wafer GH/s
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
300 avalon 110 16,13 0,282 4214 1188,35
300 bitfury 55 14,44 2 4717 9434,00
300 bfl 65 56,25 4 1167 4668,00
300 KnC 28 3025,00 100 11 1100,00
You put the package size instead of KNC's die size (which is currently unknown I think). Our ASIC package selection has been optimized, allowing the use of a smaller package. The selected package is a 55mm x 55mm HFCBGA package (2046 ball count), optimized for maximum thermal characteristics. https://www.kncminer.com/news/news-22 |
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Typical. You can't even stand to see the facts. You have to hide from them.
Then again, if you BFL fanbois were not so resistant to facts, I wouldn't have to post them over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over ad infinitum.
I have a very sensitive fact detector, it can detect one particle of fact in 100,000,000 units of bullshit, I've run it over your posts, the needle never even twitches. You should get a catchy slogan in your sig or something "Fact free since 2003!" Except when I post facts, I link to them like in this post and in this post and this post. That way, I can link to them again to dispel nonsense from folks like you. When you complain that I never post facts, you of course could not supply citations to back up your assertions. Here I am having to post the basic facts to yet another freshly minted BFL fanboi. All you have is one witless comeback, which is more sad than funny since it is defending BFL (who has once again stopped shipping product). It has been 130 days since BFL started shipping and they have not yet shipped 130 days worth of orders. |
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 R. I, P. Anthony. We hardly knew you. Epitaph: Don't ask Josh questions. |
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buying from BFL is a bad bet at first place. but keeping up with deadlines is not what BFL is about anyway.
I see it now. They cannot be trusted what they say. Their "chips sales guy" said 14 days, now he does not reply to emails. I'm not sure if they will actually deliver chips in 100 days. I would recommend for people to stop buying chips from these guys until they send out samples. Shocking.  |
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Solitude is a bit strident. Don't know if you intended it or not, but this gets the Oxymoron of Day Award. NOTE: NO! I am not calling k9quaint a moron! If unsure, look up the word. Thank you. One could be alone (solitude) in a harmonica factory running at full tilt (strident). So technically, not a contradiction in terms (oxymoron).  |
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