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Great idea, but too little, too late unfortunately. Those prices just aren't competitive anymore unless the chips were available TODAY.
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One of my favorites is that it matters whether you paid for your device with $ or BTC. It doesn't matter at all. If you paid with $, that's money you didn't use buying BTC. It terms of profit, it doesn't matter how you paid. You should look at cost in BTC when you bought and BTC returned by the machine to figure out your profit.
It's not a fallacy. All of my costs, from mortgage, food, clothing, electricity, taxes, gas, mining hardware, etc are in dollars and not bitcoins. I have never purchased anything in bitcoins and probably never will. Buying ASIC hardware using dollars (with protection from PayPal/CC) made much more sense than using bitcoins. The key question is this: would I have used the dollars I spent on ASIC hardware to buy bitcoins instead? No, I never considered it. The bitcoins I generate get turned into dollars to do something useful in my life. ROI achieved a long time ago. Some are kept just in case this highly speculative investment ever reaches the point where one bitcoin will pay off my entire mortgage. Another way of debunking the fallacy is to look at the shares of gold miners. The shares and dividends are priced in dollars and not ounces of gold. The annual profits are not announced in gold either. I have yet to meet an investor who bought shares in a miner and then started comparing spending the same money on gold and silver. One is buying the commodity, the other is buying the means to generate the commodity. The two are not the same. This also appplies to bitcoin. I could not agree more. The only reason I have any bitcoins at all is because I mined them. I don't care that buying bitcoins would have been a better investment, I invested $ to make $ and I succeeded. I've mined less than 3 bitcoins (including alts mined and sold for bitcoin) yet my net worth today is over 10 bitcoins. I invested some wisely and some poorly, but I did better in the long run than most. Sure, I could have had 25+ if I had been more daring in my investments, but I could just as easily have had 1. It's a fallacy. It doesn't matter whether you paid in bitcoins or dollars. It only matters the value of what you spend and the value of what you get back. And you need You say: "The key question is this: would I have used the dollars I spent on ASIC hardware to buy bitcoins instead? No, I never considered it." Why wouldn't have not bought bitcoins instead? Why? It would have been a much better investment. If you are trying to argue that mining is more "fun", fine, but you can't argue that buying BFL hardware in 2012 when bitcoin was only $10 was a better decision than simply buying bitcoins at that point. If you had, you'd end up with more bitcoins right now and thus more dollars. People somehow feel that if you paid in dollars back when you ordered it was a good investment but if you paid in bitcoins it was a poor one. The fact is, it doesn't matter at all. The difference with gold mining shares is that they are never purchased with gold. They are purchased with dollars. And so you never hear someone say something idiotic like, "good thing you bought those gold mining shares with dollars instead of gold bars!", which is something you hear all the time here (except with BTC replaced for gold). |
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$140 is a little less than 100 euro....
No, it's a little more than 100 Euro. About 105 Euro actually. |
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Definitely don't buy Litecoin!
Litecoin is a fad and will disappear soon. And MTGox will NEVER start trading it (I've been saying this for 6 months and I've been right so far).
Litecoin offers nothing that bitcoin doesn't already offer and unlike bitcoin it is accepted NOWHERE.
Until an alt currency comes around that actually has a significant advantage (or ANY advantage for that matter) over bitcoin, I'd say don't bother with any of them.
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There are tons of fallacies regarding mining.
One of my favorites is that it matters whether you paid for your device with $ or BTC. It doesn't matter at all. If you paid with $, that's money you didn't use buying BTC. It terms of profit, it doesn't matter how you paid. You should look at cost in BTC when you bought and BTC returned by the machine to figure out your profit.
Another great fallacy is that if you have cheap electricity you will eventually make back the money spent to purchase a mining device because it will always be profitable. It's true that it will always make money if you have free electricity but people fail to realize that there is a point where the machine just isn't worth running as it isn't even making a penny a day. And no matter how many portions of a penny you add up, it will never become an amount larger enough to pay off a device.
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I got a feeling that this will turn out into a mess similar to the Labcoin IPO.
People were putting bids 30% higher than the IPO price just to make sure they get in. And that was happening before 10% IPO price bids were filled.
The fact people do that doesn't ensure a Labcoin-esque fiasco. That mess is a result of Labcoin's continued incompetence, something we haven't seen a shred of from N&B.  Not sure why people refer to the Labcoin IPO as a fiasco. Yes, they underestimated demand, but when this became apparent they placed the shares as fairly as possible (at the IPO price!). Everyone who placed a bid got shares (according to the amount of BTC they bid). I got fewer shares than I wanted but I still think it was fair given the circumstances. This is worse IMO: it's an auction with a deadline of the IPO date and a minimum starting bid of .003. It should at least be advertised as such. What if there is a rush of very late, very large bids on BTC-TC? Does this mean e.g. Havelock could potentially miss out on shares altogether? A bit of a pain for potential investors to have to monitor all three exchanges looking for something close to the advertised IPO price. This looks messy. Sorry I should have been clearer what I meant. The reason why I said the Labcoin IPO was a mess was because they forgot to lock the shares after the IPO was approved. That's what caused the whole mess. I actually agree that they have done a great job having distributed shares the way they did. Now we have a similar situation. It was also a huge mess because BTCT was bugged for the few hours before the IPO and wouldn't accept bitcoin deposits. Many people asked for the IPO to be delayed because of this but they refused and lots missed out. I tried to buy 250,000 shares and ended up with 0. |
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Aaaandddd now there's a bid at .003001 on BTCT, so your IPO price is officially above .003 on two of the exchanges, and it's only going to get worse until the IPO launches. You should either cap it at .003 or change the wording of your IPO to reflect the fact that you are not, in fact, offering the price at .003, you're offering it to the highest bidders.
I'm interested to hear a response to this. There is no new information needed. It is simply the method chosen to make this work, all things considered. Cash grab. All things considered. I think it will be interested to see how much the price of XBOND rises above 0.0012 as people buy it instead in order to get a guaranteed spot in at 0.0025. |
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Is there a limit to how many shares a single person can buy either at the IPO or pre-IPO with xbond exchanges?
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I have a feature request. Well, it's more like a slight modification.
I noticed on the statistics page (and for the statistics returned by the API) most numbers are given as an average over the last 24 hours.
This is fine for most stats but it makes no sense for difficulty. People want to see when the difficulty changes and what the new difficulty is. The difficulty averaged over the last 24 hours is meaningless as it's an instantaneous change. Can this be change, or at least add a "current difficulty" that is accurate. The way it is now is very confusing and misleading for people.
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A few questions:
So the ASIC companies are evil for selling a product with high market demand?
So the people buying ASIC's by the truckload are not the issue?
And this can be stopped by creating another ASIC?
What drugs are you guys on and can i have some?
This. There is plenty of competition out there. There are at least 7 companies selling ASIC miners presently. As difficulty goes up, the price of these machines will go way way down. Within 6 months you'll see devices in the 500+ GH/s range selling for just hundreds of dollars, well within the range of a casual miner. Serious miners will be buying devices in the terahash range. These devices won't be that profitable but people with cheap or free electricity will be able to make a small proft. Current ASIC companies are doing not anything immoral (well, except for BFL and Avalon). They are simply charging what the market will bear. That's called capitalism. If you don't agree with their prices, don't buy from them. |
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Did the specs change recently on the Saturn or Jupiter? I could have sworn I was getting 400 GH/s but my Jupiter says it is a 200. Has it always been a 200?
Also from KNC's website in the product description it says won't ship until mid November. I thought these were suppose to ship in September unless that means if you order now.
Over 400 pages to read here and now they have their own forum gets crazy. That's exactly what BFL did. Instead of coming here they opened up their own forum. Similar minds think alike?
Jupiter = Minimum of 400 Gh/s Saturn = Minumum of 200 Gh/s If you purchase a new one today, it won't ship until November. If you purchased prior to last week it will ship before the middle of October. You can take your order number from your My Orders page and paste it into the order tracking search box on the main page to see when your miner is going to ship. Please don't ever compare KNC to BFL again. You are only making yourself look uninformed and reactionary. I'm a little confused. I pre-paid back in June and paid $3,975 for the miner which I think was rated for 400Gh/s. Now when I look at their site their Saturn is 200Gh/s and is $2,995. Should I expect a refund in price difference or something here? I could have sworn I was getting 400Gh/s for almost paying $4,000. No, you ordered a Saturn which was 200GH/s and cost $4k roughly. The 400 GH/s Jupiter was $7k. You will not get a refund since the prices up there now are for Novermber machines. |
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I think you could use it as a heat cource for a super efficient stirling engine which you could then attach to an electric generator.
Physics still wins. The problem is that the hot side to cold side difference isn't that high, so you can't extract much energy from it... I dunno, my Avalon gets pretty warm. And there are stirling engines that can run just from the heat of your hand. |
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There is a problem here, but not what the OP was saying.
As more coins stop being used we become more unsure of the total market cap of bitcoin because we don't know if those coins are actually lost or simply not being spent.
What if there is a 1 trillion dollar bitcoin economy but 20 of the 21 million coins are considered "lost" because they haven't participated in a transaction in hundreds of years.
But actually 4 million of those coins are simply sitting in a misers wallet.
One day he decides to spend them.
Now suddenly the number of bitcions increases by 5, causing everyones bitcoins value to plummet by 80%. This would be a huge disaster.
So as you see, as more bitcoins become "lost" the value of a bitcoin becomes more uncertain.
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I only sell bitcoins. Where is that option?
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Let's do a comparison: I'm sure I'm missing some, who is shipping now or shipping in October that is in the mid to 100GH hashing range? 1. BB Fury: 40/60/80 GH $1000 (shipping oct) 2. BFL : 50GH $4,600 (hahahah) 3. KNC : 100GH $2,000 (no longer available/shipping oct) 4. Tarrahash: 18GH $900 (sold out and are these shipping?) 5. Erupter blade 10GH $650 (shipping now) too expensive
$1000 for 40-80 ghash isn't even worth risking.
Why is this overpriced? Megabigpower charges $8000 for an October delivery 400 GH/s kit. This looks like it will only be $5000-$6000 for the same thing. It's similar in price to HashFast's 400GH/s miner, but that won't ship till the last week of October and they have yet to demonstrate that they have working hardware. Here are my comparions for a US customer. I've listed the total amount including shipping for a 400GH/s device that will be delivered in October: 1. KNC Jupiter 400GH/s (sept/oct order that will likely ship in oct) $7,131.80 2. HashFast Baby Jet 400GH/s (ships oct 21-28) $5,769.57 (bitcoins only) 3. BitFury 16-board kit 400GH/s (oct delivery from megabigpower) $8,000.00 4. BFL (nothing available) 5. ASIC Miner (nothing available thats even remotely competitive) 6. Avalon (nothing available) 7. Bitburner Fury 320-640GH/s early oct $7,475.00 As you can see the price is very competitive especially when you take the following into account: - You can't order a KNC Jupiter for October delivery anymore. They are already sold out. They have no proof of working machines yet (as far as I know) so it wouldn't be too surprising if they don't ship on time. - The HashFast Baby Jet won't ship until the very end of October. They also don't have proof of working machines either and could likely be delayed. I think their tape out was scheduled to be Aug 31 or so which is a very short time to have working machines. - The bitfury chips actually exist and are working. - The Bitburner Fury machine is the only one that seems like it will be easily overclockable. I would be surprised iif it isn't capable of 500-600GH/s. The HashFast may be overclockable too but no one knows yet. Disclaimer: I have KNC, HashFast, BitFury (from megabigpower), Bitburner Fury, and BFL machines on order |
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If you are risk averse why don't you leave your coins in one of the many bitcoin bonds: ukyo.loan, graet.loan, xbond, etc.
They are about as safe as you can get (safer than coinlenders).
sorry, where is information on these? are these on bitfunder? links please.... ty [edit] ..... found great.loan and ukyo.loan. where is xbond? Xbond is on https://www.havelockinvestments.comIt's great because it is exchangeable for pre-IPO shares. That's why it's a little more expensive than the other bonds. |
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too expensive
$1000 for 40-80 ghash isn't even worth risking.
Why is this overpriced? Megabigpower charges $8000 for an October delivery 400 GH/s kit. This looks like it will only be $5000-$6000 for the same thing. It's similar in price to HashFast's 400GH/s miner, but that won't ship till the last week of October and they have yet to demonstrate that they have working hardware. |
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If you are risk averse why don't you leave your coins in one of the many bitcoin bonds: ukyo.loan, graet.loan, xbond, etc.
They are about as safe as you can get (safer than coinlenders).
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Neo and Bee is IPOing next week (see the thread in this forum) and it looks very interesting.
I will be investing at least a little bit.
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The next update will not be scheduled but rather I will see to it that we update the forum and btct.co when mining is running and the team can show more details on the operation.
Direct confession of a lie. They were never hashing. If this is true price should correct to IPO value. (if this is not a scam, remember scam = 0) Why is it so hard to have a picture of the mining rig and your assembled boards? Please reply TheSwede75. Because they don't have any. I wonder how they got to 2TH/s? 25 second-hand Avalons? |
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