If the bank was involved it should make it easier to at least get the fiat back, than hunting down Karpeles.
This is useful. Now Mizuho Bank, since they're being sued too, has an incentive to get to the bottom of this and pin the blame on Karpeles. They have their copy of all the Mt. Gox fiat transaction data, and internal investigators and auditors. |
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It's hard to get people on board with so many scumbags in bitcoin. Remote, anonymous, irreversible transactions are a scumbag magnet. Over half the Bitcoin exchanges have gone bust. And that was before Mt. Gox. The "online wallets" were even worse. Bitcoin also seems to be a sucker magnet. Look at the topics on this board. "High Yield Investment Programs". "Lending" at 200%/year. If there were real financial opportunities that good, they wouldn't be advertised on here. Bitcoin - connecting scammers and suckers since 2009. |
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Too much litigation taking place in the US, Canada, and maybe the UK. Not enough taking place in Japan.
Is any Mt. Gox creditor known to be actively involved with the Mt. Gox bankruptcy case? Anybody trying to kick Karpeles out and put a trustee in? Anybody demanding some realistic accounting numbers?
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Suing Mt. Gox's bank is a reasonable thing to do, because they may have known about Mt. Gox's financial problems but failed to disclose them. That might be contributory negligence. If some kind of attack resulted in withdrawals of customer funds by unauthorized parties, then the bank might have some liability. It's known that there were unhappy discussions between Mt. Gox and Mizuho Bank, but the details haven't been published.
Suing the bank also has the practical effect that the bank will now try to document that it was all Mt. Gox/Karpeles fault. This will help track where the money went.
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I never supported MtGox
Yes, you did: Quote from: smoothie on February 09, 2014, 12:57:40 PM
+1 Mr. Sturle lacks logic when it comes to customers being fucked over in all of MTGOX's short comings. And myself being also called an idiot by him shows his lack of understanding of what customers should be able to do.
I can fully understand the frustration of people who can't get to their money. Claiming they don't have the BTC, and asking for total irresponsible behaviour to "prove" they have the BTC, is 100% idiocy.We all know that this technical glitch has all the signs of a technical glitch, and absolutely no signs of MtGox being out of BTC. In fact they filled up their hot wallet several times during last week, as you could see by withdrawals suddenly working well for a short while, using very old inputs, until they started failing because the old spent inputs came back on top of the list (sorted by age). I took the opportunity to withdraw just after refill, and got myself a new round of profit by buying MtGox BTC at a discount with BTC I withdrew from MtGox. You will know they are going to refill within 2 hours of withdrawals to external addresses starting to fail with "invalid address". (Withdrawal to MtGox deposit addresses still work when the hot wallet is empty.) You are obviously not a technical or scientific person. You rely on belief and rumour instead of facts and logic. I am a technical person. I dig into the real matters, investigating what holds water and what is just empty rumours. That's why I am right every time. |
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I was thinking about the future of BTC and I wonder if its near-term utility will be as an irreversible medium of transfer. Basically a replacement for the wire transfer. That's what DigiCash. DigiCash, invented by David Chaum, was the predecessor of Bitcoin. Chaum solved the double-spending problem and the change problem, which Bitcoin copies. Bitcoin adds mining and miners as guarantors of the block chain. DigiCash was centralized. Because it was centralized, DigiCash could use existing currencies. The central service would convert anonymous DigiCash to and from some other currency at fixed rates. DigiCash almost made it big, but Chaum blew deals with Goldman Sachs, ING, and Microsoft. One source says that Microsoft wanted to put DigiCash in Windows 95. They were thinking micropayments; a way to send a few cents or dollars cheaply. |
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That probably means that civil reorganization converts to another form of bankruptcy soon.
That hasn't happened yet. And despite at least three lawyers soliciting business on here, nobody seems to be appearing in court in Tokyo to make it happen. We're seeing transactions taking place on Mt. Gox accounts that shouldn't be happening. There are legal procedures in Japan to kick Karpeles out and put a trustee in, but some creditor has to initiate them. |
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Out of curiosity what is the size of that scam vs. the Gox scam?  The SEC calculates about $40 million, based on the average price of Bitcoins over the period of interest. |
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With regard to Internet escrow companies, “escrow” also includes any transaction in which one person, for the purpose of effecting the sale or transfer of personal property or services to another person, delivers money, or its Internet-authorized equivalent, to a third person to be held by that third person until the happening of a specified event or the performance of a prescribed condition, when it is then to be delivered by that third person to a grantee, grantor, promisee, promisor, obligee, obligor, bailee, bailor, or any agent or employee of any of the latter.
Search Google for "Internet escrow fraud" for why California did that. |
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There seems to be a lot of confusion in here, so let me make at least this point clear:
The SEC is a civil enforcement agency, it does not have the power to bring criminal charges. That's why Shavers was never arrested for his actions related to his bitcoin investment scam. At the federal level, only the US Attorney's office can bring (non-military) criminal actions against an individual.
That's correct. And when the SEC finds criminal activity for which they think a fine isn't enough, they turn it over to the FBI and the US Attorney for prosecution. Wilmer Hale (a law firm) has a list of SEC actions which include parallel criminal prosecutions.They don't do it that often. But, for example, Raj Rajaratnam of Galleon Management, a hedge fund, is now US Prisoner #62785-054, to be released in 2021. |
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I am also suspicious about 2Btc and think the same that 0.25btc would be sufficient
2 BTC is about two hours of lawyer time. It costs you that much to get acquainted. They're not overcharging. The question is whether they can do the job in Japan from the UK. |
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That's what Tradehill said too. Didn't work out for them. If you want to run an exchange for big transactions, you need sizable capital of your own, or no one with real money will trust you. |
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Atlas AFT is not "professional". They're just another marginal "exchange". Read the Atlas terms and conditions.* Customer funds segregated from company funds - NO. * Right to sue - NO, forced binding arbitration. * Right to class action - NO. * Published outside audit - NO. * Published financial statements - NO. * Member of regulatory association like FINRA - NO. * SEC registered broker-dealer - NO. * Customer balances insured - NO. * Permanent office address (Utah): NO (50 West Broadway, Suite 1000 Salt Lake City is a "virtual office" rental space.) * Permanent office address (NY): PROBABLY NOT. * Accepts responsibility for assets losses due to own negligence - NO. ("IN NO EVENT SHALL WE ... BE LIABLE FOR ... DAMAGES, ... RESULTING FROM ... UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; ... OR (IV) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE SERVICES.") Those are worse terms than Mt. Gox had. This matters. Co-founders: * Shawn Sloves - Business Week profile SEC filing for previous unsuccessful startup, Global Over The Counter Bulletin Board LLCYes, they're registered with FinCen. (#31000033855084) As of today. The address they gave FinCen is the Greenwich Village Mail Center.This looks like a couple of guys in shared office space just starting out. They probably shouldn't be entrusted with your money. |
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I'm not sure what to think of this firm. But the fact that they don't have offices in Japan means they will probably be less effective than a firm that does. Nothing on their site indicates that they do international law or bankruptcy. Christopher Mirick, a partner at the international law firm Pillsbury Winthrop Shaw Pittman talked to the Wall Street Journal about what it will take to resolve this case. This is one of the world's leading international bankruptcy lawyers. Read what he had to say. Resolving this mess is quite possible, but expensive. The big-law approach would be to hire a firm that has offices in Tokyo and some other major cities around the world. Big firms have the resources to analyze a huge mass of confused records and find out what really happened. They use forensic accountants, computer security experts, interrogators, paralegals, translators, document databases, and other tools. Little firms without such resources may not be able to address this mess. |
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But it was about 2GB a year ago. At this rate, it will require a NAS with several dozen 4TB hard drives in RAID by the end of 2016.
No, we hit the 7 transactions per second limit first. Bitcoin really does have a scaling problem. There are potential technical solutions, but nobody has implemented anything ready for deployment yet. (Keeping Bitcoins in an "online wallet" and doing transfers within the remote system is not a solution.) |
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There is a market price right now, that prices in all known facts and expectations to the future. That is 550ish. Without the Gox issue it would be 1000+ . No, the big runup was when, for a few months from roughly November 2013 though January 2014, Bitcoin was an easy, legal way to get money out of China, bypassing China's exchange controls. Once the People's Bank of China cracked down, that stopped, and prices slid back down. Still, they're over 5x what they were in October 2013. Unclear why. The collapse of Mt. Gox doesn't seem to have affected the price of Bitcoin much at all. |
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See this post for what's in there. Along with the hostile code (which only runs if you explicitly execute the .exe or Mac executable files), there are some plausible, but possibly fake text files purporting to be Mt. Gox's account list and transaction list. Please see if you can figure out if that info is fake. Can you match it to the blockchain?
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There was an AUDIT from a third party company, they went to check the solvency and transparency of Bitstamp, this are the results: STATEMENT REGARDING RECENT THIRD PARTY AUDIT REPORTDear Bitstamp clients, On November 22nd and 23rd, 2013 an on site due diligence was carried out in respect of Bitstamp Ltd. on behalf of a 3rd party. Bitstamp’s balance of BTC was validated by temporarily creating the largest single Bitcoin wallet and in the process the largest Bitcoin transaction in history. The report identified that Bitstamp held 100% of validated BTC balance and USD funds. No material issues were raised as a consequence of the 3rd party’s investigations. Original statement https://www.bitstamp.net/s/documents/Firestartr_DD_Letter_for_Bitstamp.pdfBest regards, Bitstamp team The document was released the 6th March 2014, from Firestartr.Co"firestartr.co" is not an auditor. They're a startup incubator. This is a little better than Roger Ver's video about his examination of Mt. Gox's accounts. But it's not an audit. It's not even a financial statement. |
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OK. There's a bunch of junk and some suspicious executables in that .zip file, but the files of interest are just two big text files. Here's what they look like: "mtgox_balances":mysql> SELECT * FROM platform.User_Wallet WHERE platform.User_Wallet.Balance != 0 ORDER BY platform.User_Wallet.Balance DESC;
+--------------------------------------+--------------------------------------+------------+---------------+-------------+---------+---------+----------------------+------------------------+----------------+---------------------+
| User_Wallet__ | User__ | Currency__ | Balance | Liabilities | Index | Backend | Daily_Withdraw_Limit | Monthly_Withdraw_Limit | Disable_Limits | Stamp |
+--------------------------------------+--------------------------------------+------------+---------------+-------------+---------+---------+----------------------+------------------------+----------------+---------------------+
| 5c05557d-8d1e-4e2a-9a24-21781413be32 | 711a4e9d-e183-4bec-a390-340918326538 | BTC | 4454767562508 | 0 | 156624 | virtual | 0 | NULL | N | 2012-07-13 06:58:01 |
| a6acd802-bb4f-412b-be6d-b0bf3f2bb055 | 34fcda44-5832-48c3-8beb-60f1bd9fef37 | BTC | 4376817697344 | 0 | 42208 | virtual | 2000000000000 | NULL | N | 2014-02-25 03:53:01 |
| 221d365a-ce33-4619-a8fb-f79514940bb1 | c0b24126-f199-4cc6-83fc-c96f2bcb9381 | BTC | 1998500000000 | 0 | 4 | virtual | 0 | NULL | N | 2012-08-11 10:30:00 |
| 2ae40a68-c862-4fd3-8ebc-a05a7e0fbfac | 92d047e9-9f2b-4dd0-9163-077db3e56dd0 | BTC | 1150063956592 | 0 | 253 | virtual | NULL | NULL | N | 2013-11-26 02:35:25 |
| 1ad3f250-17dc-4d3d-9aff-15f3ed40cec9 | ff84fc35-b22a-492d-b8f2-5fb79be170a7 | BTC | 1100781000685 | 0 | 3941 | virtual | NULL | NULL | N | 2014-02-20 22:30:51 |
| 166c11b8-f2b3-4302-a21d-c2c706994447 | 0afba433-817e-49d4-a72f-0576c660861b | BTC | 981919410221 | 0 | 6752 | virtual | 1000000000000 | NULL | N | 2014-02-24 18:41:47 |
| f070b09c-f046-4bf2-889d-cb9defcce7fd | 19b38844-b58b-4d1b-8ba1-af2e45b164f7 | BTC | 875255455182 | 0 | 32579 | virtual | 1000000000000 | NULL | N | 2014-02-24 03:13:22 |
| d4e3840c-938d-47a2-bb72-7678c3d8f7d2 | 945e5a15-4100-4199-91ea-d8d8bec7e07a | BTC | 800000000000 | 0 | 3496 | virtual | NULL | NULL | N | 2013-08-08 18:50:39 |
| 45548a69-11e5-4d31-bc0c-d8f0294eb4f1 | 4339257e-4b12-4412-9574-0785ccf613bb | BTC | 605128552400 | 0 | 6966 | virtual | 1000000000000 | NULL | N | 2014-02-22 08:18:31 |
| da39625a-d901-425c-9586-86bab7bf9880 | 0766852e-9187-4712-80f0-1fbb78813b07 | BTC | 519991480916 | 0 | 16523 | virtual | 200000000000 | NULL | N | 2014-02-25 00:49:35 |
| c10d31d6-81a5-4df1-9d2a-6524c4b3ad04 | f2d2f8ea-dd36-4d32-adb7-79448755d53c | BTC | 500000000000 | 0 | 165 | virtual | 0 | NULL | N | 2014-01-21 03:22:40 |
| caebcd40-3f04-402e-84bd-13f019ca9847 | ccb564e6-f33a-40fc-b222-aa4d8bc88fa6 | BTC | 422607868556 | 0 | 902 | virtual | 90000000000 | NULL | N | 2014-02-22 17:11:30 |
| 33ec6422-fec5-458d-a25c-284790aedc99 | 0b1bb842-d189-48c2-899b-6b1893ba0db8 | BTC | 396731866419 | 0 | 3870 | virtual | 1000000000000 | NULL | N | 2014-02-24 18:56:05 |
| 30245646-10ee-481c-802e-fd8828efa43a | 40399e92-1249-4e80-be0d-30c59a995dff | BTC | 388009278436 | 0 | 6831 | virtual | 1000000000000 | NULL | N | 2014-02-21 21:43:43 |
| eee8ae06-fbc0-40eb-8ca3-d909acf096a3 | 679376ba-ffad-4fab-831c-b5c445cbb59e | BTC | 370719697264 | 0 | 5747 | virtual | NULL | NULL | N | 2014-02-07 14:01:24 |
| 64b2e05b-52da-4cfa-8fd8-890af1da5a10 | 944d5ea9-40c6-4dc1-92ef-45afbde02716 | BTC | 360731800000 | 0 | 989 | virtual | NULL | NULL | N | 2012-03-15 07:56:41 |
| 85452c04-0665-4979-bb8a-8886cc2f0a10 | 87c17550-bb6a-4ab1-b3a9-bcd8b72906f7 | BTC | 356516619593 | 0 | 5077 | virtual | NULL | NULL | N | 2014-02-25 01:13:16 | Wallet,Entry,Date,Operation,Amount
00001bd2-cdb1-4707-b125-97dfdc46d3f4,682b3d0a-67d7-4b62-8ed4-4e1d39d54a69,"2011-07-27 11:11:00",deposit,0.05
00001bd2-cdb1-4707-b125-97dfdc46d3f4,e441aa74-372f-488d-8342-e2e845041e88,"2011-08-09 11:14:07",deposit,0.85
00001bd2-cdb1-4707-b125-97dfdc46d3f4,e1173927-a09b-4dc0-a085-138e0e21558d,"2011-09-23 11:29:47",withdraw,-1.40154
00005afe-8eac-418b-945b-6016166ccb13,a97682c8-dfc2-4d6e-9bdc-66aa1dda355b,"2013-04-12 14:25:21",deposit,100
00005afe-8eac-418b-945b-6016166ccb13,ce10fe19-0551-41e7-9160-d9241e67281a,"2013-04-08 19:23:33",withdraw,-8
00005afe-8eac-418b-945b-6016166ccb13,db9d0a3c-4a94-4710-9fcd-f98aa7dbd968,"2013-04-08 20:57:16",withdraw,-20
00005afe-8eac-418b-945b-6016166ccb13,1a812ba4-578f-42d7-a19d-8982fcc7fe72,"2013-04-16 20:42:28",withdraw,-0.1
00005afe-8eac-418b-945b-6016166ccb13,701f5de7-b527-4f50-9fb2-a6430d912ea9,"2013-04-17 19:36:14",withdraw,-99.9
00005afe-8eac-418b-945b-6016166ccb13,aaa584a1-5e22-4fab-9862-5713041c47b2,"2013-04-19 13:49:43",withdraw,-55
00005afe-8eac-418b-945b-6016166ccb13,34ff41b3-b021-4331-b834-e08be410490a,"2013-04-20 20:19:00",withdraw,-1
00005afe-8eac-418b-945b-6016166ccb13,10138f9f-ec2b-4ca1-a7c3-d36f56bae3df,"2013-05-19 09:01:31",withdraw,-0.5
00005afe-8eac-418b-945b-6016166ccb13,9731a1f6-5e66-4a76-8a53-10257411d0ba,"2013-08-08 21:23:40",withdraw,-80.06210892 What these mean, when they were created, whether they're even real, and whether they check with the blockchain remains to be analyzed. But that's what's in there. Looking up some of those addresses at "blockchain.info" returns no find. Try it yourself. This may be totally bogus data. |
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