You will never have a commercially made ASIC miner for SHA encryption!
Until every organisation on the internet and off the internet changes the way they encrypt their information, you are out of luck.
Reason being:
This ASIC hardware could too easily be reverse engineered to decrypt SHA. And with it's small size and power consumption they could be ran almost anywhere barely undetected constantly attacking SHA at an incredible rate. Essentially these devices would put too much power into public hands.
If you are going to continue to pursue this Bitcoin mining game you better load up on FPGAs and GPUs!
Now someone tell me I am wrong.
Thanks.
You are wrong  Nobody has given you a full technical response, so here is one: - First of all SHA256 is hashing, not encryption - Mining ASICs can only do 1 thing (find x such as SHA256(SHA256(x)) has zeros in the low 32 bits). They cannot be used for general attacks (eg. given y, find x such as SHA256(x) = y). - There is no point in reverse engineering them: their design is simple, cryptographers can easily design some to suit their exact problem, and have already done so in the past: http://rijndael.ece.vt.edu/sha3/publications/DATE2012SHA3.pdf- Cryptographers designed SHA256 to resist bruteforce attacks (by ASICs or any fast hardware) thanks to the sheer size of the output hash and conservative design. For example, finding a SHA256 pre-image takes on average 2^256 calls to the compression function. ASICs only bring a relatively tiny performance improvement over FPGAs of at most ~50x (per mm˛ of die area). 50x is huge for Bitcoin, but tiny cryptographically speaking. So a pre-image attack on ASIC would be equivalent to a 2^250 pre-image attack on FPGA. Big deal. No one cares. This is not a world-changing event. Bottom line: cryptographers already planned for fast SHA256 hardware, this hardware already exists, and this hardware is not constantly breaking the world. |
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Ok, I agree to at least a 10 btc bet on these statements. But we need to clarify one of them: -- BFL equipment is reported to by 10+ "good standing" forum members (I do not believe determining "good standing" will be very hard, and I doubt this bet comes down to "no those were shills reporting hardware" - I think the writing will be on the wall on the date our bet settles. Also, it may be prudent to appoint 10 confirmed members that all have publicly stated they have placed a pre-order that we can both believe are in no way connected to BFL or would shill for them)
BFL equipment is reported to what? (Words are missing): a) to have been merely received by 10+ members, with the Mhash/Joule personally confirmed by at least 1 of them b) to have been received, and to have the Mhash/Joule personally confirmed by all of them a) is too weak. b) is too strong. Even to this day, after almost 1 year of sales of the BFL Single FPGA, I don't believe one can find 10+ good standing forum members having personally posted their measured Mhash/Joule. Maybe only a handful did (I was one of them), yet the whole community recognizes the ~10 Mhash/Joule performance as legitimate... What about making the statement: c) BFL equipment reported to have been received by 10+ good standing forum members, of which: - 3 must have each personally measured the Mhash/Joule of the devices - the other 7 may not have necessarily measured the Mhash/Joule, but must have provided reports of having received working devices that seem to validate the existence and plausibility of the devices belonging to the above 3 I too believe that it will be pretty obvious who of the two of us wins the bet. (It will not be a close call and come down to "only 9 users reported working devices, not 10, you loose!"). However, I don't think we are going to be able to round up 10 willing appointees, for the simple reason that not many care about our bet. So do we need to strongly define "good standing" members? In the very unlikely scenario where the outcome of the bet is ambiguous or unclear (eg. either fewer or more than 10 reports are available, depending on who you consider to be a "good standing" member, and the Bitcoin community itself is somewhat divided on who of the reporters are trusted members), if you and I cannot come to an agreed outcome, I promise I will be a gentleman and offer to cancel the wager :-) Bowjob: arrange the details with Micon directly. I want to interface with only 1 person to simplify things. I would of course match both of you at 11 btc total. In fact I would want to bet a lot more if possible. |
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1) we are going to have to work on the statement we are betting on. Something like "BFL will not ship all pre-orders by 7/1/2013" is something I'd like to bet against.
2) I feel we are going to come to a wager for sure. I'm willing to bet 10 btc against the above statement right now. Escrow will still need to be found
3) My wife just gave birth to our daughter on 12/27 so I don't have a ton of time right now, please don't take my inaction in this thread as a sign that I'm scared or don't want to bet. I will give this as much attention as I can. I usually have a few hrs of daddy-daughter sleeping on my shoulder time and occasionally puking on me (I really don't mind it) during this time of night when I give her mom a rest and can msg-board it up for an hr or so. I'll check in semi-daily and we'll hammer something out soon IMO.
I am not sure I can put a date on "shipping all pre-orders". I am not even sure they will do that by the end of the year(!) as I believe they will run into numerous issues trying to bring the production back from Asia to the US (they claim they want to do that). Anyway I digress... Instead, I would rather bet on something like "at least 4-5 reasonably trusted forum users will report receiving working units by 7/1/2013, and performing at X Mhash/Joule". (Mhash/Joule is equivalent to Mhash/s per Watt). We do need to add this power efficiency metric as it would be unfair for me to win the bet if BFL ships, say, "FPGAs branded as ASICs" completely missing their power estimates. For reference: - BFL singles do 10 Mhash/Joule - BFL minirigs do 20 Mhash/Joule - All FPGA mining devices do about 20-24 Mhash/Joule as they are all Spartan6-LX150 based - ASIC vendors have estimated anything from 238 to 1000 Mhash/Joule (BFL claims 1000) I would put the threshold for our bet at around 200 Mhash/Joule, sufficiently high to prove it is an ASIC. But I have offered 350 Mhash/Joule on betsofbitco.in, so I would go with that for the sake of being fair to you. You claim the entire BFL ASIC operation is a scam, so my wager details proposed above would make you win, if that was the case. I can draft a document based on these details if you mostly agree with them. We will also need to define corner cases (such as who is a "reasonably trusted forum member", perhaps any forum account created before June 24, 2012, ie. before BFL announced ASICs) |
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I want to warn you that coupon code are not transferrable. At least the ones that MtGox offers for free to their existing customers.
MtGox emailed me a free Yubikey coupon code. I sold it to someone. But MtGox ended up shipping the Yubikey to my address, tied to my MtGox account. MtGox Support confirmed that coupons are tied to the account they are first offered with.
No idea on this - but I would beg to differ. I've used a free Yubikey coupon code from someone who claimed that he got it from MtGox's email, and the Yubikey arrived at my place easily. This was from a couple of months ago, though.. I have no explanation for that then. Although my buyer encountered bugs on MtGox's website and we had to ask Support for a sort of reset URL to re-activate the coupon code. It is possible my experience is somewhat unique. |
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That's why i put it in quotes so I could define anyway I wish. Like for example it is the opposite of what you took it to mean.
You don't change the definition of a word by quoting it. Way to be misunderstood... 2nd time I say it: you need to learn to communicate more clearly, if you want to be understood. I can change the definition to mean what I want it to. Whether or not you GET IT does not matter to me. You have no control over what I choose to have a word mean or not. Nor do I care if you understand me or not in a clear manner. You actually think that I CARE IF PEOPLE UNDERSTAND ME. You fail hard. So hard that you resort to betting and insisting that people put money on the line because of what I believe or not to be true. You make tons of assumptions. Keep failing hard. AGAIN I ASK: HOW MUCH DO YOU HAVE IN BFL PREORDERS? OH RIGHT BECAUSE YOU ARE EMBARRASSED TO SHARE THAT INFO LOL!!!  Smoothie, perhaps no one has ever told you this nicely, so let me try. Your posts are rude, non-sensical (redefining english words by quoting them), childish (improper sentence construction, and too many lols and smileys) and incoherent (as I have pointed out). Whereas mine are polite, but stern. This is why many readers ignore you: the forum software shows your "ignore" link in a dark shade of orange. Tell me, you write on bitcointalk to share your ideas, right? So you should put 2 and 2 together and realize it is in your best interest to improve the quality of your posts, in order to be less often ignored and be able to share your ideas with a larger readership. So please do improve your writings and communication skills. As to my BFL pre-orders, I am not answering because: (1) it would be impolite to boast about them, (2) this is none of your business, (3) no one cares anyway, and (4) nobody understands the point you are trying to make! (I am happy to demonstrate my belief in BFL through a bet, therefore I would be happy, not embarrassed, to do the same through my pre-orders. "lol" indeed) |
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+1 / good idea I have a 13 day old daughter but I promise to give this attention in the next few days and we will wager. I'm very google-able in that I wager large amounts all the time. You can prove a large wallet or something? Congrats to new dad! Yes, see: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=135914.msg1447806#msg1447806(Let's move out of this thread.) |
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Micon, check your email.
Most of my coins are in cold wallets, but I can move ~850 BTC from my hot ones to prove ownership. How about you?
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As of Jan 28, we have bet 80 BTC (40 each), sent to the escrow address calculated by casascius' cryptographic escrow app (casascius himself is the escrow). Terms of the bet: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=135914.msg1460806#msg1460806 Escrow address: 1Btxe5E8E4jCWfDhQMr683sVYnLgNLbA9zAs of Apr 16, we made a second bet of 200 BTC (100 each), sent to the escrow address (dooglus is the escrow). Terms of the bet: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=135914.msg1861384#msg1861384 Escrow address: 1Dtf7TrZrQr7QooVGoKfd99rxHNoikQ3EHAs of May 5, so far, here are the potential datapoints that could determine the bet winners: --oOo-- Below is the first draft, first attempt to defined a bet... Micon and I expressed willingness to place a personal 1:1 bet between each other, identical to http://betsofbitco.in/item?id=665 , that is: Butterfly Labs ASIC is real and will achieve 350+ Mhash/Joule
At least one ASIC-based Butterfly Labs product will demonstrate 350 Mhash/Joule or more, at stock frequency/voltage, at room temperature, for a sustained period of time of at least 60 minutes, with appropriate current-measuring equipment on the device's power input(s). Power consumption shall be measured by adding up current from all the device's DC inputs (12V jack, USB cable, etc.) It will not be measured "at the wall". The purpose of this bet is to avoid wildly varying efficiencies of power adapters and computer hosts. This bet applies to all ASIC-based products that Butterfly Labs will deliver to the general public. This includes the "SuperComputer" family (Jalapeno, Single SC, Mini Rig SC), as well as possibly any unannounced product that the company will be shipping by June 30, 2013.
This statement is true if, for example, the Single SC achieves 40 Ghash/s at 114 Watt or less (40000/114 = 351 Mhash/Joule) as measured with a clamp meter on its 12V DC input and 5V (USB) input.
This statement is false if all Butterfly Labs products fail to achieve 350 Mhash/Joule, or if Butterfly Labs fails to deliver any product at all.
mrb: agrees with the above statement. Micon: disagrees with the statement. |
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Micon: actually, since you are up for it, can we raise the stakes? 100 BTC? 250 BTC? 1000 BTC? How high can you go?
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Put your money where your mouth is: bet against "Butterfly Labs ASIC is real". If you are right that BFL are scammers, then you will roughly triple your coins (there is only 51.55 BTC on your side, but 109.74 BTC on mine). But I suppose you are going to invent some excuse for not betting, like every single person in my sig... I am happy to make an escrow-ed wager on this matter. I am not keen on using the betsofbitcoin system, but I am happy to escrow a 10 coin wager on the matter with you personally. We can find a mutually agreeable escrow and terms of the wager. I am more than willing to bet the scam side. I'm thinking something like all pre-orders not shipped by end of 2013? I'll take the don't on that 1 for sure. Thank you! I agree with a personal escrowed bet of 10 BTC. This makes you the first BFL critic who I regard highly, unlike others on the forums... I will PM you to arrange the details. |
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That's why i put it in quotes so I could define anyway I wish. Like for example it is the opposite of what you took it to mean.
You don't change the definition of a word by quoting it. Way to be misunderstood... 2nd time I say it: you need to learn to communicate more clearly, if you want to be understood. |
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+1 He is "hedging" because of his funds are tied up with BFL preorders LOL!
No, "hedging" would be me betting against BFL. |
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Where did I ever say that I care if you take me seriously?
Nowhere. I don't care that you don't care. I just stated you would need to bet to convince me. That is all. |
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Actually, yes. Your criticism of BFL completely fails to convince me. So, yes you would need to bet in order for me to take you seriously. |
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Perhaps I implied it.
Point demonstrated. |
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FOR THE SECOND TIME, Where does it say that I said BFL are scammers? I said scammers...not BFL dipshit lol. Fail harder bro!  Wow you fail at simple logic. Talking about scammers and BFL in the same paragraph doesn't mean I said BFL are scammers. Yes it does. This is called "context". Example: if I write "This man is smoothie. I dislike morons." I never say "smoothie is a moron", but I imply it by context. If not, why did you write the sentence? Who are you referring to by "scammers"? You need to learn to communicate more clearly. |
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Where did I ever say BFL are scammers? lol get your facts straight buddy.
Here: That's the part most people miss. Scammers don't like when people tell the truth about their scam(s).
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Not all of us are gamblers. Pointing out the truth has nothing to do with gambling. LOL fail harder and try harder lol
By your definition, this is not gambling, since you call it "truth" and seem so certain about it. The fact you refuse to bet, shows that you have low confidence in your claim that BFL are scammers  |
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I will overdeliver on this point.
Epic CES video being edited / uploaded.
teasers:
1) I easily once again sneak in to CES
2) BFL guy literally hands me an actual quarter (I have the quarter) and tells me to get a clue instead of talking with me about his product on display at CES
3) I take a very informative and well-spoken interview from the Bitpay guys about their round of funding, and congratulated them on spreading the bitcoin gospel and generally working for good. I further explained I am starting an ecig company and will be of course using bitpay as my bitcoin processor.
4) start filming the box of fans & $100 androids & 3 plastic cases they brought to CES (from afar, they are sort of guarding their equipment at this point and I moved to the other side to interview the Bitpay guys) and explain that BFL has been given roughly 50x the amount of funding that bitpay has just received, but in the form of pre-orders. At this point I'm pretty sure the BFL guys called Venetian security because...
5) I get kicked out
Epic video on the way. BFL a total scam, they act exactly as scammers would and I will show you a perfect side-by-side comparison of how a real business would look at CES vs. a total, utter scam.
Put your money where your mouth is: bet against "Butterfly Labs ASIC is real". If you are right that BFL are scammers, then you will roughly triple your coins (there is only 51.55 BTC on your side, but 109.74 BTC on mine). But I suppose you are going to invent some excuse for not betting, like every single person in my sig... |
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