Just saying, "Well, no response since December 2023, is that a good receipt for you?" means nothing. What is the problem? Who is affected? What is their claim? Did they send a refund request and not receive it? What exactly is your point? If that is your reasoning, then please explain why the biggest one is not on this list? Also, explain why we have paid other people who have multiple times the balance of the users, sent to the risk management team for review? Sometimes, it is okay to think first before throwing around accusations. |
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We are uncertain why people continue to present their opinions as facts. The claim that we hand-select users for refunds is outright silly; every user has been refunded, except the five users we mentioned earlier. For the sake of transparency, we will release the usernames of these five users.
The refund requests of the following two users have been denied due to fraud (and this is not up for debate):
1. hubbypub
2. Pgermaine1413
These users have been forwarded to our external risk management team for verification. We will process or deny their requests based on the outcome of the third-party review.
1. Eggs96
2. faramutsi
3. Anccik
4. nutters0n
Aside from these cases, we are currently in contact with one other user privately and are actively working on resolving their case.
There is no other user or individual to whom any money is owed in any way, shape, or form. If someone has requested a refund and hasn't received it, we encourage them to come forward and provide us with a receipt.
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To be clear, the refund is not only for Bitcointalk users; it applies to all users on our platform. We had a good estimation of the number of people affected by the closure, and we received refund requests very close to that number. As a result, we are confident that almost everyone affected or with any meaningful amount on the platform has received the message and requested their refund.
We set a deadline for the refund several months ago and didn't receive any new requests for a few weeks. Once again, we are pretty confident in our conclusion. However, we are leaving some room for any user who might have missed the announcement. Any future requests will be considered on a case-by-case basis.
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GekkeBelg and AHOYBRAUSE, do you mind to do us a favor and confirm this? Check your refund wallet and see if your funds on betnomi have been returned? As the claim above said it's the final set and it's completed, I believe even if yours are in the last of the list, they should be processed by now.
Thank you. We hope that more people will be able to come here and make appropriate statements. |
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We have completed the refund process for the final set of withdrawal requests. Out of these, two have been denied due to fraud (account was previously banned). Three of them have been forwarded to the risk management team of our odds feeds and game providers. Apart from these five instances, all other refunds have been 100% completed.
We will process or deny the remaining cases based on the results of the review conducted by the third-party risk management team.
It was never our plan to stop Betnomi as it was going amazing before pause but it was my duty to make sure everyone was made whole.
Thank you all for your patience.
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There are some confusions and speculations ongoing regarding the refund and the status of our "New project." As we have stated previously, all users will be 100% refunded. It is important to note that we are not simply refunding users the value of their assets at the time of the site's closing. The refund is being issued at the current market rate, about twice the original value since then. As anyone can imagine, this is a very difficult thing to do. If we were doing the rate at the time of the site closing, it would have been a straightforward process, and this issue would have been long closed if that were the case.
Also, to be clear, some refunds have already been issued. Users who had assets in stable coins (USDT/USDC) have already been issued a 100% refund. Again, the delays are due to the fact that we are looking to do the refund at the current market rate, which is something very uncommon but the right thing to do.
Regarding the persistent and casual scam accusations, I have heard enough of that and at this point, will simply ignore it moving forward. It has been more than four years of explaining the same thing over and over again. It is self-evident that these are mostly trolling, naivety, or outright ignorance.
I have been public and never anonymous. There was an unfortunate situation, and I came out to give a detailed explanation and proposed a remedy to the situation. Nonetheless, some people persist in making these silly accusations.
@efialtis, I personally have been ignoring you for a long time and tried not to respond to any of the name-calling and personal attacks, but I think it's long overdue that I call you out on your BS. Don't act like you are some kind of an angel. Perhaps you could explain to the community what caused you to start attacking us, because you were actively promoting us and always trying to get something from me for two straight years.
While you explain, it would be wise not to lie about anything, because I still have two years of our private chats, and you can delete them if you want (I screen recorded EVERYTHING!).
I am not in the business of personal attacks or playing childish games, but moving forward, I will not let people casually throw around accusations with no basis. If ANYONE has any kind of proof or evidence that I (personally) or Betnomi as a company scammed anyone, I am happy to debate and discuss any such assertions via Twitter Spaces or a Telegram voice chat any day, anytime. I have had to deal with this repeatedly for years.
It is the same nonsense that eroded the reputation of Betnomi from day one. Even before the platform was launched, it was called a scam based on conjecture, and that will not be the case moving forward. Unless anyone can definitively prove some kind of wrongdoing, this has to end.
The project "BaseBet" is a new project that I co-founded. It will be operating with our existing Casino software and with some upgrades to make it a true web3 platform with a smart contract interface where user funds will be non-custodial and completely under the users' control. That being said, what we have now is a demo, a "test net" of the platform. It is not operational, it does not accept any deposits, nor is any real money gameplay allowed. It is purely for demo and testing purposes as of now.
It will undergo a complete UI/UX redesign and rebrand, and further development work will be done before the official launch, which will take a few months. To summarize, it is not yet an active or a production website.
It is easy to type whatever you want and name call people with no reasoning or logic behind it. Again, if anyone wants to have a legitimate conversation or have questions about anything, I am happy to jump on a Twitter Space and clarify anything and everything.
It's better to discuss it in real time and prove your point if you have one.
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Our initial cut-off date for refund requests was 30 days.
However, based on community feedback, we have decided to extend it for a few more days until January 1st.
After this date, we will no longer process or respond to emails related to the refund request.
This has been a challenging process, but fortunately, we worked it out successfully.
Payments were scheduled to be made in batches, but to avoid confusion and other related issues, we have decided to process everything in one go.
Thank you for your cooperation.
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We have received a large number of refund requests, many of which are duplicates. We are carefully analyzing them to separate legitimate requests from bogus ones. While we intended to complete this process sooner, we are actively working on it and appreciate your patience.
@Betwrong, to confirm, we have received your request and will process it.
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@Betwrong, whether you are KYC verified or not is irrelevant. It simply facilitates the process, but feel free to leave it blank if you are not verified. Regarding paragraph 5, please outline the currencies you possess and include their respective addresses in the email.
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We've received several refund and withdrawal requests, and our team is diligently verifying the information. These requests will be processed and distributed in batches. The first batch should be completed within the next few days.
Thank you for your patience
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@holydarkness, you have a point, and certainly an interesting one. But to answer your question, we do not upload nor store KYC data on our servers. We do not view or do anything with the information directly. Rather, we use a third-party service called Veriff. This is an identity verification service designed for just that. They are specialized in that field. Their systems are designed with data protection and verification at their core. They are licensed in several jurisdictions, including the EU, and comply with all data protection standards, including CCPA/CPRA, GDPR, SOC2 type II, ISO 27001, and WCAG. In short, it's one of the safest places to keep such data, and a lot of major organizations use them as well. Additionally, if the regulator mandates the upload of first and last name, you must comply with this requirement. We do not willy-nilly determine which information to upload. Some information is mandatory, while others are not. If it is not mandatory and we deem it worth protecting, we will take appropriate measures to safeguard it. I can testify that I havent received this but Betnomi did pmed me before about this. I didnt even know at that time that I was one of the recipient
Betnomi actually pmed me like a day or two after the whole site got shutted down asking for my delivery address so I was actually worried if their account was compromised at that time then I replied them with asking them to sort the their site's issue before sending me those ledger because it wasnt that trivial compared to the chaos back then
If you have a few minutes, please contact this user and tell him your delivery details and he will send you your prize (you can quote me). He still has 1 or more Ledgers in storage. Btw, another user did an independent review of these wallets if you are interested. After my earlier post, being also inspired by pixie85's post and by icopress' suggestion, I decided to check the hardware integrity of the Ledger I received from Betnomi. In theory, on their website the required steps look simple, yet the practice is the one which always kills us. All I found there was this: Secure Element attestation
The Secure Element itself is personalized at factory with an attestation proving that it has been manufactured by Ledger. You can verify it by running
pip install --no-cache-dir ledgerblue
python -m ledgerblue.checkGenuineRemote --targetId 0x33000004 Obviously, those were not commands which could be simply typed in a Command Prompt window. So after some digging I understood that I have first to install Python. You can get Python from here: https://www.python.org/downloads. Alternatively, you can also download it from Microsoft store. I downloaded Python 3.11.4. Following some articles I found on the Internet, I understood that Visual Studio 2017 build tools may also be needed on Windows. As I wanted to make sure I have all prerequisites, I also installed this software (so I don't know if everything works without it). Visual Studio 2017 build tools can be downloaded from here: https://www.visualstudio.com/downloads/#build-tools-for-visual-studio-2017. If you want to make sure you installed Python properly, you can run this command (directly in a Command Prompt window -- so just press Start - Run - cmd or press Windows key + R): python --version. You should see something like this:  Then you'll need to install pip, which is a Python package manager, which may come or not together with your Python build. Following some tutorials about Python, I reached this page and from here you can download pip. You will see in your Download folder a file named get-pip.py. Afterwards you have to run this command (Command Prompt): python get-pip.py. This will install pip. Having pip installed, you can ensure about this by typing the following command (in Command Prompt): pip --version. You should see something like this:  Additionally, you'll need to install a Virtual Environment for Python, in order to be able to run the commands for checking the hardware integrity (I know, it already sounds like a pain in the ass only by reading everything I wrote here but imagine how it feels to actually do all these (!) and find all the information necessary in order to be able to make this check...  ). So following the same tutorial page for Python I installed first Pipenv, which allows you to install Python packages, then I installed Virtualenv, which "creates a folder which contains all the necessary executables to use the packages that a Python project would need". In order to install these, you need to run these commands (in Command Prompt): pip install --user pipenv and pip install virtualenv. Next step is to install Python tools for Ledger Blue, Nano S and Nano X, which can be found here. In order to be able to do this you need to run the following commands (in Command Prompt): python3 -m venv ledger and pip install ledgerblue. After finishing all these we finally get back to the command shown on Ledger website: python -m ledgerblue.checkGenuineRemote --targetId 0x33000004 -- but we do not run the command yet (keep reading below). The part "0x33000004" is the TargetID, meaning a code of your product. The entire list of TargetIDs is available on the website I mentioned above (obviously, none of these can be found directly on Ledger's website so you need deep Internet search for obtaining all this information): | Device name | Firmware Version | TargetID | | Nano S Plus | all | 0x33100004 | | Nano X | < 2.2.1 (developer units only) | 0x33000004 | | Nano X | >= 2.2.1 | 0x33000004 | | Nano S | <= 1.3.1 | 0x31100002 | | Nano S | 1.4.x | 0x31100003 | | Nano S | >= 1.5.x | 0x31100004 | | Ledger Blue | <= 2.0 | 0x31000002 | | Ledger Blue | 2.1.x | 0x31000004 | | Ledger Blue v2 | 2.1.x | 0x31010004 |
As I wrote above, the command should not be entered yet. This is because the Ledgers from Betnomi have an old firmware (2.0.1) and the command works with newer firmware versions. So at this point you need to perform a firmware update (if you haven't already), which can be done through the Ledger Live app. For those not aware (there may be still a few of them), Ledger Live app can be downloaded from Ledger website: https://www.ledger.com/ledger-live. After installation is done select the tab My Ledger. There will be two firmware updates available. First one will upgrade the Ledger's firmware from 2.0.1 to 2.2.1. Second upgrade will bring the firmware 2.2.2 to your Ledger. However, the command for checking the hardware integrity can be run after having the firmware 2.2.1. You should see something like this:  Reaching this point, you must have the Ledger connected to your PC / laptop and also make sure it is not in standby. For obvious reasons, the command won't do anything if the wallet is not connected to the PC. And, if it is in standby mode you'll get a long error message, ending with Connection to remote host was lost. However, assuming that the device is connected and it is not in standby mode, run the command python -m ledgerblue.checkGenuineRemote --targetId 0x33000004. You will receive a warning on your Ledger screen, which you need to confirm. And finaaaaaaaaaaally, after all these, I received this confirmation:  It was a lot of work but, at least, I was assured that the Ledgers from Betnomi are genuine. Or, at least, I was 50% assured. To ensure the remaining 50% I proceeded to open the device, in order to check its PCB.
Warning: performing the steps mentioned below may destroy your device. If you won't destroy it then you'll certainly lose the warranty.This part may also sound simple, but it's not simple at all. You need to pay a lot of attention, as the product looks like a capsule (obviously, it was not meant to be opened) and it has no screw. Trying to break its case open may break it so your device may be totally damaged. However, since I won 3 such Ledgers from Betnomi I afforded the risks. So first step is to remove the grey part branded with Betnomi from the wallet. The grey part should be lifted ( in a delicate manner) from the grey button of the wallet. It can be removed relatively easy.  Now the important part comes. You need a very thin screwdriver or a very thin knife or any other sharp thing which is also very thin. If you look around the display, you'll see a very thin line -- this is the line where the part of the case protecting the display is assembled with the rest of the product. The screw driver should be used for forcing it into this thin line, in order to detach this part of the case from the other part of it. This should be done with a lot of attention, as at this step the device may become broken. In order to avoid this you may try to push the screwdriver between the part with the display and the rest of the wallet case on multiple spots of this thin line, thus getting some more weak spots which, in the end, will make the detaching of the display more easy. By pure chance, I had a minuscule screwdriver and I used it for the surgery operation:   Then I used the grey part, which I previously removed, and I inserted it in the small opening made by the screwdriver, to keep that part open. Having a part already open, I used the screwdriver to force the opening more:  I proceeded with caution for the rest of the thin line until the case fully opened. At this point I had to pay a lot of attention, as the navigation buttons are not attached to the PCB, nor to the external side of the case. They are not attached to anything and only the fact that they enter in the holes of the case keeps them at place. So I took them out, hoping to remember the correct place of each one.  The display is on the other side of the PCB (as seen in the image from above) and it is connected to the PCB through a small interface, so you can manipulate it to a side, since it is not attached on the PCB. This is important, because by moving it to a side you can check the entire side of the PCB where it is placed. In the end, I could take these pictures of both sides of the PCB:  Next step was to compare the PCB details with the images shown on Ledger's website. There are 4 hardware revisions of these Ledgers, having different PCB colors. The PCB of my device is green, which corresponds to Revision 4. And, by analyzing the look of my PCB and the one from Ledger website, it seems the PCBs are identical:  Now I was finally assured that my product respects the hardware integrity! Since I am a magician when it comes to opening electronic devices piece by piece then placing all the pieces back together By pure chance  I also managed to place back everything inside the wallet case then close back the case. Surprisingly, the wallet is still functional! 
In the end, for trying to be more catholic than Pope is, I performed also the genuine check offered by Ledger Live app:     The check concluded by saying that the product is genuine. Hooray!
ConclusionHaving these said, I guess that the owners of Betnomi Ledgers can relax now, as their products are not tampered with. Those which want though can perform the above steps for checking their wallets' hardware integrity on their own. However, I don't recommend this, unless you don't care if the device gets fully damaged or unless you are used to opening electronic devices / fix them / etc. It is very sad that icopress is having a huge loss because of Betnomi but, at least, they were not that evil to tamper the devices they raffled on the forum. |
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@Mahdirakib, it is okay to be wrong sometimes. You don't always have to be right.
You have persistently made unfounded claims that went unchallenged. Our goal is not to mindlessly argue about trivial things. We have a complicated and delicate situation on our hands, and we are doing our best to resolve it. If you have constructive criticism or something useful to contribute, we welcome it. However, personal attacks and name-calling are unproductive.
As for questions regarding the database, let me clarify those.
We use AWS RDS cross-region with a disaster recovery plan in place. Also, we had a secondary ClickHouse database that operated as our data warehouse. It is not that we had a single instance database and lost it overnight. That is not possible with the sophisticated system architecture we had in place, and the production database access was limited to a single developer and myself with root access.
When we suspended our operations, we had to terminate some of our AWS resources because these services cost several thousands of dollars in monthly expenses. It doesn't make sense to keep them running when they are not being utilized.
At this point, we made the decision for the developer with the production database to take a backup and the DevOps engineer to terminate the services. This was the timeframe in which relationships went sour, etc. From this point, I no longer had access to any system or services. There was no technological or inappropriate handling of data in this case. It was purely a human factor. It can and does happen with many organizations. It is not a crime to trust people you work with.
The limited backup we have; the Curacao regulators require you to upload specific information to them once a week. This includes user ID, username, email, balance, last login date, IP, transactions, etc. They need to keep a copy on their own servers to be able to verify reports made by users against our claims. This is a must for every casino operator licensed with them.
Of course, we complied with this process, however, there was some information we deemed unnecessary and sensitive enough where the risk of sharing it outweighed the benefits. Such information would include the users' email addresses. We thought it was important that we protect our users' email addresses from third-party systems, not only with the Curacao regulator but even slots aggregators and sports providers.
We only share usernames and user IDs for identification and never email addresses. They are private and should be protected to the degree that is possible.
Whatever we have now is what we uploaded to the Curacao regulators. It has everything we need to be able to verify the information needed for the refund except for the email addresses. However, we have encrypted email logs from a promotion we ran sometime ago. We have our own ways to manually encrypt the submitted emails and run them against the logs to verify them. We can't send mass emails because they are encrypted, and no, before you ask, it is a one-way encryption.
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There have been some questions regarding the Betnomi-branded ledger device we distributed during our promotions. It is crucial to emphasize that these devices are a direct result of the Betnomi x Ledger co-branded partnership program. Just like all Ledger devices, they are manufactured and branded directly by Ledger and factory sealed by them. There is no distinction between these devices and any other Ledger Nano X.
Any claim to the contrary is blatantly false and unfounded. If the entries of one of the users are correct, then only arallmuus has not yet received the promised prize. For other users, custom wallets were delivered by postal service as promised. We have several more of these devices, and we plan to distribute them all soon.
Regarding the suggestion to send an email to users, this is clearly the most effective way to resolve this issue. However, as we mentioned in our initial statement, we do not have access to the database. We do have a limited version of the database that is shared with regulators for compliance purposes. If we had access to the actual site database, we would simply restore the site and allow users to withdraw their funds directly. Unfortunately, this is not the case, and we can only do what we can with the resources available to us.
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Betnomi Refund Plan As announced a few days ago, it is our primary duty and responsibility to ensure that every user on our platform receives a complete refund. We are now progressing to the next phase of our refund process by opening a 30-day window. During this period, any user with a balance on our platform can initiate a withdrawal request. Please be aware that after this 30-day withdrawal window, we will not be processing any further withdrawal requests. Our objective is to facilitate a swift and seamless withdrawal process. Although we anticipate some users may attempt to submit fraudulent withdrawal requests, we assure you that we will meticulously verify all information before processing any requests. We strongly advise against wasting time on submitting fictitious claims. Refund requests from users whose accounts have been closed or suspended due to fraudulent activities before the cessation of operations will not be processed. We have already identified and flagged such accounts. Apart from these cases, we are ready to accept and process refund requests. Kindly send an email to refund@betnomi.com with the following details: 1. First name, Last name (if you are KYC verified)
2. Username (request will be ignored if the username does not exist)
3. Email address (request will be ignored if the email does not match)
4. Refund Amount (approximate balance is acceptable)
5. Wallet address (we will process only in the cryptocurrency you have) Our aim is to responsibly refund our users and ensure a secure process. Thank you all for your cooperation. |
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I'd like to address some of the questions that have been raised. First, why did it take so long to make an announcement? There were a few reasons for this. First, the situation unfolded very quickly and it was unclear what was going on and who was involved. We needed to understand the scale and scope of the issue before making any public statements. Second, the issue has become a legal one, and it is important to not comment on such matters without understanding the potential legal exposure. Third, there was no practical way to effectively communicate the message to users since we do not have database access. While we could have posted a message on the forum or social media, we didn't have all the facts, and any information we put out would have a high likelihood of being misleading or incorrect. Who is going to refund the users? I will be personally covering the refunds from my own funds. We are exploring other options at this point, but every single user will be completely refunded in full. We would not have made an announcement about the refund unless we were positive we could get it done. Fortunately, the total balance of users on the platform is relatively small, so this is entirely doable. Some people have speculated that employees fired the owners? This is not the case. There were more than one owner of Betnomi (partners). We will not be releasing the names or any other information related to the partners at this point because it is unnecessary and there are potential legal consequences for doing so. Finally, I would like to address one critical assertion. The claim that Betnomi is a scam is absurd. We spent millions of dollars and years of hard work to build the entire platform and infrastructure to support it. This is not a simple white-label operation. The sum of all users' balances left on the platform is less than our monthly expenses as a company. Everyone with a significant balance, that is, an amount greater than $5,000 USD, has already made a complaint in the forum, and there are only about four or five of those. This is because we processed all pending withdrawals before taking the site into maintenance mode. It is easy to make claims without knowing the facts, much less analyzing them. I simply ask that you do the math next time you have the urge to say "scam." Not to mention, i am not operating anonymously from some hidden bunker on Mars. I have a public profile, which is an unusual choice for a casino operator, but I believe in transparency and chose to go this route. Regards Sorsis |
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Dear users and friends, We are writing to inform you of the status of Betnomi and our commitment to fully refunding all user balances. In June, we faced significant internal challenges related to the company's long-term financial outlook and ownership structure. To address these issues, we temporarily suspended operations and initiated a restructuring process with a focus on long-term profitability. During this time, it became clear that continuing to work with the existing owners was no longer viable, and we terminated the partnership. Unfortunately, following this decision, certain individuals engaged in backroom deals to extract Betnomi's intellectual property and resources for the purpose of launching a new casino independently. These actions resulted in significant damage to Betnomi and its users. Critical system resources were restricted, and the database became inaccessible, preventing users from withdrawing their balances. We have since learned that our database was compromised and potentially sold to another casino platform that falsely claimed Betnomi had rebranded. We are pursuing legal action against this entity. Fortunately, we have successfully retrieved a backup of our database and are working with regulators to develop a plan for fully refunding all users. This plan will be announced in the coming days. Due to several legal actions that are pending against those who stole our intellectual property and those who wrongfully gained access to our systems and falsely claimed to be associated with us. The outcome and duration of these cases are uncertain. Therefore, we have decided to permanently cease operations and stop using the Betnomi brand in our best interests. Over the past two years, we have developed our own casino software, risk management engine, and other valuable intellectual property worth millions of dollars. We intend to leverage this expertise to rebuild a stronger brand in the future. We will provide an update on our reimbursement plan and schedule as soon as possible. Thank you for your understanding. Betnomi Refund Plan As announced a few days ago, it is our primary duty and responsibility to ensure that every user on our platform receives a complete refund. We are now progressing to the next phase of our refund process by opening a 30-day window. During this period, any user with a balance on our platform can initiate a withdrawal request. Please be aware that after this 30-day withdrawal window, we will not be processing any further withdrawal requests. Our objective is to facilitate a swift and seamless withdrawal process. Although we anticipate some users may attempt to submit fraudulent withdrawal requests, we assure you that we will meticulously verify all information before processing any requests. We strongly advise against wasting time on submitting fictitious claims. Refund requests from users whose accounts have been closed or suspended due to fraudulent activities before the cessation of operations will not be processed. We have already identified and flagged such accounts. Apart from these cases, we are ready to accept and process refund requests. Kindly send an email to refund@betnomi.com with the following details: 1. First name, Last name (if you are KYC verified)
2. Username (request will be ignored if the username does not exist)
3. Email address (request will be ignored if the email does not match)
4. Refund Amount (approximate balance is acceptable)
5. Wallet address (we will process only in the cryptocurrency you have) Our aim is to responsibly refund our users and ensure a secure process. Thank you all for your cooperation. |
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Thanks for the good luck wish, ended up winning this series again with solely luck . Arallmuus, congratulations on the victory! Please send me a PM with information about where and to what name to deliver your prize. |
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I think all slots are selected. Did the organizer forget to sum up the results of the raffle? It would be great to hear the block number, otherwise almost a hundred people are waiting for the final results. Sometimes there are too many things to do, but this does not mean that the summing up of the results of this event is not on my to-do list. The winner will be determined thanks to block number 780640 🦊 |
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betnomi, if we have to go to the literal way, would you please take the higher ground and look into this bug in his account? I believe you have his username already. Can you fix it so he can see all of his betting history shown in pages like every other user of your platform, thus invalidate this minor claim of unfairness with your platform?
Just like every other user, the records are already there and he can see them. Since these Bets were from several months ago, he might have to use the DateTime filter to select the time range for which he wants the records just like on any other website and there is no bug. Previously, we loaded records for only the last 24 hours but the logic has been changed months ago to load the last 10 records and if the user wants to go further back, then the DateTime filter becomes useful. There is nothing complicated or unclear here but malicious manipulation of the facts. |
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