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1121  Economy / Speculation / Re: 50K bidwall at 2.30 - Crash over? on: November 17, 2011, 04:42:31 AM
Weeeeeeee!  My condolences to everyone who bought in the past few hours.  New lows are on the horizon.

We're back in the cycle.  Didn't get as high as I thought (closer to $3), but the game is on again.  'Wall' at $2.30 disappears, reappears at $2.00 and the market is sold off.  Rinse, repeat.
1122  Economy / Speculation / Re: Gentlemen, buy your Bitcoins while you can still afford them. on: November 16, 2011, 03:00:35 PM
If the USA and Europe declare bitcoin to be illegal, does it cease to exist?  No, because there is no centralised point of failure.

If I wanted to take down bitcoin and had the resources to do it, I would:

1) Attack (through the courts) the major exchanges.  Make their lives miserable and bury them in lawyers.  Deeply discourage any bank from cooperating with MtGox, etc.  If it's difficult to move between traditional currencies and bitcoin then the general public is much less likely to use it.

2) Smear bitcoin.  Declaring that drug dealers use it isn't enough (many people love drugs).  Setup a legit looking web site for pedophiles that takes payments in bitcoins, then bust it.  Advertise that bitcoin is the currency of pedophiles.  Nothing pushes people's button like this issue.

3) Launch a 51% attack and deny everyone else's transactions.  Expensive to set up, but not beyond the resources of a medium sized government.

4) Play with bitcoin's value.  Raise and dump the price in wild swings.  Make it so unattractive to merchants that no one would want to hold a bitcoin for more than a few hours.  Couple it with step 1.

5) Arrest and prosecute a few people for using bitcoins.  Governments know they can't chase everyone down, but they can make an example of a few to make everyone notice.
1123  Economy / Speculation / Re: Is the price slowly climbing? on: November 16, 2011, 04:25:21 AM
welcome to another episode of "is the price slowly climbing?" till the next big (and probably final) chrash beneath the 2$ or/and into the 1$!

looks like the price is slowly climbing



It's only a matter of time until we're back at $30! $100 by Christmas!

Ready, GO!

Looking back at posts in July on BitcoinTalk, people were being completely serious when mentioning a rocketing price for bitcoins.

"I would be surprised if we do not hit $100 in September."

"I would be happy if it hit $40 by the end of the year."

Right now it seems many people would be delighted if we see in 2012 above $2.
1124  Economy / Speculation / Re: 50K bidwall at 2.30 - Crash over? on: November 15, 2011, 09:31:37 AM
Very true.  No sane merchant would ever trade in a commodity/currency that can change several percent in value within the space of a minute.  All the arguments for using BTC fly out the window when the merchant needs to put a hefty margin on their sales to compensate compared to using traditional currencies.
I find it surprising that a long time poster can say something like this. It's entirely possible to accept Bitcoins for payment with ZERO currency risk. Either by using a payment system such as bitpay and in that case the merchant doesn't even have to know what Bitcoin is. The other option is to set up a do-it-yourself system but this requires knowledge of Bitcoin and IT.

I don't expect this from clueless posters such as proudhon but come on... Smiley

It's been said before but... if you're going to get rid of your BTC as soon as you receive them (to not carry currency value risk), then why deal in BTC at all?  BTC payment services and BTC<->USD transfers aren't free.  The merchant is creating another layer of paper work for themselves.  The only advantage is no charge backs, but as a customer I want to be able to charge back a dodgy business.
1125  Economy / Speculation / Re: 50K bidwall at 2.30 - Crash over? on: November 15, 2011, 08:06:17 AM
So, what do we reckon about the fake $2.20 support and the rising price this time?  Another pump 'n dump cycle coming in the next couple of hours?  The market may be wisening up to this (finally) as there's only $1200 or so required to go from $2.30 to the $2.20 'wall'.

There'll probably be another build up period with volume piling up a little bit ahead of the bid wall pushing the price as high as 2.5, maybe even a little more.  Then the big wall(s) will come down, this guy'll sell into the fresh bids, there'll be another flurry of panic selling and we'll setup for it to happen again at a lower price.  My guess is this will keep happening until whoever this is has rid himself of bitcoins in exchange for money he can actually use for something.

Unfortunately this type of behavior is what makes it unattractive for vendors to accept BTC for purchases. Such volatility means they will not be able to accept BTC for purchases without say a 20% surcharge in order to hedge their bets against losses. You cannot pay your rent or taxes with Bitcoins. At least not anywhere I know. I bet this speculator is on this board and is one of the people trying to drive the price down to $1.50 or lower. Still based on previous data we could see a genuine increase back above $3 in the next couple of days.

Very true.  No sane merchant would ever trade in a commodity/currency that can change several percent in value within the space of a minute.  All the arguments for using BTC fly out the window when the merchant needs to put a hefty margin on their sales to compensate compared to using traditional currencies.

I also agree that the chief person responsible for today's mischief is almost certainly reading these posts.  They're putting on a good show and making MtGox Live interesting to watch, but pumping and dumping the market too often can kill the golden goose.
1126  Economy / Speculation / Re: 50K bidwall at 2.30 - Crash over? on: November 15, 2011, 04:27:03 AM
So, what do we reckon about the fake $2.20 support and the rising price this time?  Another pump 'n dump cycle coming in the next couple of hours?  The market may be wisening up to this (finally) as there's only $1200 or so required to go from $2.30 to the $2.20 'wall'.
1127  Economy / Speculation / Re: 50K bidwall at 2.30 - Crash over? on: November 15, 2011, 04:07:11 AM
New 'wall' at $2.20!  We're saved!   Cheesy  Cheesy  Cheesy

1128  Economy / Speculation / Re: 50K bidwall at 2.30 - Crash over? on: November 15, 2011, 04:01:02 AM
Seriously, you guys haven't figure it out yet?  The bet this guy is making is that the impressive amounts of cash he puts up will induce confidence in people such that they place bids ahead of his large bids.  He then drops his bids and sells into the bids that built up ahead of his.  Rinse, repeat.  He's cashing out, not getting in.

It really is quite simple to execute and beautiful to watch when it happens.  Those bitcoin traders who wised up to this behaviour months ago are riding the waves, others are getting crushed by them time and time again.  It's a true libertarian market, without rules and regulations, laws and other things that get in the way.
1129  Economy / Speculation / Re: 50K bidwall at 2.30 - Crash over? on: November 15, 2011, 03:48:49 AM
$2.20.  The walls are there to play mind games with traders and to fool bots.  They mean nothing and are only there to look pretty.
1130  Economy / Speculation / Re: 50K bidwall at 2.30 - Crash over? on: November 15, 2011, 02:56:28 AM
Yes, we are saved.  Good times are here again.  That $2.30 'wall' can't just disappear with one mouse click.
1131  Economy / Speculation / Re: Someone just took a gigantic dump. on: November 15, 2011, 12:16:18 AM
It seems to me that bitcoin behaves in almost exact opposite to sentiments expressed on BitcoinTalk. 

Several weeks ago when the price was collapsing and $2 was within sight people were breaking out the marshmallows and singing bitcoin's death song.  Then the price went up by over 50%.

Last week we had posts proclaiming that $3 is somehow the new found level of stability and things are good from here.  Someone showed up to spoil the party and dump the price to the low $2 range again. 

We now have an obvious and anticipated breakout of pessimism again.  Which way will the trade turn from here?
1132  Economy / Speculation / Re: Someone just took a gigantic dump. on: November 14, 2011, 10:17:29 AM
Did anyone sell into and wipe out the 50,000 bid wall? Last I looked it was 47,000 at 2.5 at 136,000 volume.
I see price dropped down to 2.3 since then and volume is now 270,000. Did someone wipe out his 47K bidawll, and he placed it back?
nope it was moved there, and some people panic sold into the rest of the orders, doesn't make sense but people are jumpy..  Roll Eyes

Is this all over now ? Price going to $1 soon ?

Probably back to $3 by week's end, but each major dump dents confidence in bitcoin and bitcoin's value.  As a transactional commodity, the price doesn't matter.  As a place to park your money for more than a few days (unless you're speculating on value) it's terrible.
1133  Economy / Speculation / Re: Requests to Santa Manipulator on: November 14, 2011, 09:04:26 AM
Satan Manipulator returned today.  He's been away for a few weeks, but just couldn't help himself today.
1134  Economy / Speculation / Re: Is it possible for us to get the price back up on: November 14, 2011, 06:09:17 AM
Is it possible for us to work together to get the price back up to about 15-30?
Legally that is.

Legally or illegally, it's a tall order.  The only way you're going to get the price up in a hurry is by having access to at least a million dollars and buying up all the bids.

There have been various ideas floated before, such as asking sellers to retract their asks and 'force' bids upwards.  It never works.  If only one person doesn't cooperate and acts against the herd in their own interests then the entire manipulation fails.

The other question is, why does the value of a bitcoin have to go up?  It's just as useful at $3 as it is at $30.  If people are buying them up to speculate on the value rising in the future through sitting on their behinds and doing nothing, are they any better than the Wall Street 1%?
1135  Economy / Speculation / Re: Someone just took a gigantic dump. on: November 14, 2011, 02:49:09 AM
One thing is for sure.  Whatever happens, whoever is involved, there is only one guaranteed winner: MtGox.  They must be loving the volume.

Wall comes up, wall comes down, rinse repeat.  If whoever is responsible is reading this forum, I'd just like to say I'm enjoying the show.
1136  Economy / Speculation / Re: Someone just took a gigantic dump. on: November 14, 2011, 02:39:40 AM
Two trades of 5000 BTC for $2.60 and that 2.60 'wall' comes crashing down.  It's beautiful to watch.  Someone is putting on quite a show.
1137  Economy / Speculation / Re: Bitcoin stability on: November 14, 2011, 02:33:44 AM
So much for stability Tongue.

Baseless Speculation: I think the price has entered the next drop, this time due to panic selling. What happens next depends on whether the $2.4 and $2 supports hold - if they do, we could even have an attempt at "stability" at the $2.4-$3 range.

Looks like somebody sold down 50k bitcoins? And the price still managed to just clear the 2.5 $ mark, I suspect that this was just one sale, the price will bounce back up to the 2.9-3.1 range pretty quick.

I'm generally a realist and bear on bitcoin's price, but I tend to agree with this point.  I believe we will see a slow rise back to the $3 over the next week. 
1138  Economy / Speculation / Re: Someone just took a gigantic dump. on: November 14, 2011, 02:11:17 AM
5x trades of 1000 bitcoins each at $2.50 within milliseconds of each other.  Hmm. 
1139  Economy / Speculation / Re: Someone just took a gigantic dump. on: November 14, 2011, 01:08:15 AM
Watched it happen.  Interesting stuff.  Makes me wonder why someone does that.  There was a huge flurry of trades at $2.50.  Thousands of bitcoins going back and forth for the same price.

Great speculating opportunity.  Not so great for anyone who is a merchant and wants to do anything useful with bitcoins.  Instant 17% value drop.
1140  Economy / Speculation / Re: Bitcoin stability on: November 13, 2011, 08:34:26 AM
Stability around any price (30c, $3, or $30, take your pick) is the best possible outcome for bitcoin.  Imagine being a merchant in August or September:

"I'm getting $10 for my sale"

10 minutes later

"Oh, it's now only $9"

Another 10 minutes

"It's now $12, great!"

Later that day ...

"Damn, it's now $8"

No merchant in their right mind would tolerate the instability we have seen in recent months.  Merchants are not Wall Street speculators, riding a speculative high to make money.

If bitcoin remains at $3 for months or even years it would be a great result.
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