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1481  Economy / Speculation / Re: Largest weekend discount so far :) on: August 07, 2011, 02:46:57 PM
Anyone that chalks up computer illiteracy as a strike against Bitcoin shouldn't be online to begin with... if your shit gets stolen by a virus, you fail at life; it says nothing about Bitcoin.

Try saying that after your computer gets pwned by a zero day exploit because you just happened to visit the wrong web site.  No need to download and install dodgy software, no need to click anything.  Software makers need several days to patch the hole while anyone is free to exploit it.  It doesn't happen often, but it most certainly happens.
1482  Economy / Speculation / Re: Over 8 dollars now on: August 07, 2011, 12:48:28 PM
Traders have no interest in clarifying false beliefs. If you think about it, you'll see that the stolen coins were probably sold *before* it became obvious they were stolen. Why would mybitcoin sell AFTER everybody tries to track their coins?

Also, this is a financial crash's bust pattern. Why would a sell-off from one or two thieves cause fancy spikes and saw-teeth?

I think people who blame stolen bitcoins or a guy running bots for the falling value are clutching at some very short straws.

17,000 bitcoins were allegedly stolen (mybitcoin says everything is back, btw), and that's meant to cause a crash in a market of almost 7 million?  It doesn't seem very logical.

One guy running bots to corner the market?  Maybe if he has several hundred thousand bitcoins to play with, otherwise that doesn't make sense either.

The only logical reasons for the falling value are the current state of the world economy (can't pay investment losses or taxes in bitcoins), panic (price is falling, which makes others sell before it hits zero), and the usefulness of bitcoins in the real world (currently, not very useful).

Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.
1483  Economy / Speculation / Re: Bitcoin will never reach $20 again on: August 07, 2011, 11:41:46 AM
There is one stupid thing the OP overlooks Wink Bitcoin will definitely hit USD 20 IF the USD goes into hyperinflation. THey will hit USD 1 billion a piece when a coke costs 100 billion USD Wink

Some analysts say the USA is about to encounter a massive bout o deflation.  Japan has been trying to reinflate its economy for over 20 years, often with 0% interest rates.  Hasn't worked, won't work.  When debt is too high people won't borrow money even if it's free.

Some commentators such as at The Automatic Earth state housing in the USA will fall about 90% from peak to trough.  Only a quarter of the way there so far.

If US leadership does go nuts and has the Fed monetize all the debt, I would be invested in gold, silver and weapons.  No use holding a USB stick when hungry, angry, riotous hoards come visiting your middle class abode.
1484  Economy / Speculation / Re: Over 8 dollars now on: August 07, 2011, 11:34:37 AM
Once again the market (the direct buyer) are feeding the mining sector of the Bitcoin economy. And once again Bitcoins are overvalued. The market gives you the chance to sell on high levels. Take the chance.

Any bounce back from lows (sub $6) to highs (anything over $8) is likely to get the sellers active again.  There's over 20% in gains to be made in under a day.  Not selling now and waiting for the next lows next weekend would be leaving free money on the table.
1485  Economy / Speculation / Re: PANIC! on: August 07, 2011, 08:44:06 AM
A warm hearty 'thank you' to the traders that sold at $6.  Cashed in a 20% profit within hours.  Not often you can do that.  Viva la volatility!
1486  Economy / Speculation / Re: Time to buy back in! on: August 07, 2011, 03:47:33 AM
"Time to buy back in", the cry went out when bitcoins were at $10.  Now they're over 30% lower, in 3 days.  Time to buy back in?

It's strange that people hang onto the theory of the "bot guy" placing order walls and then taking them away.  Who is this mysterious "bot guy", is he alone and how many bitcoins does he have?  It all sounds a little conspiracy theorist like.  Anyone who has been around the share market for a while knows bids tend to clump around nice even numbers in penny stocks.  There will be more orders at $0.10 then $0.09 for example.  It's not a "bot guy" doing it, it's human nature.  If there really is one "bot guy" out there with enough bitcoins to lower the price of bitcoins, then the whole concept of bitcoins is broken.  One person shouldn't have that much power to set the price for everyone else.

The fact that the bid walls disappear as bitcoin's price approaches them is logical too.  If you saw the price of a share plummet, would you stay at your old bids or lower them in anticipation of an even lower price?  It's pretty logical.

1487  Economy / Speculation / Re: R.I.P Bitcoin on: August 06, 2011, 06:22:04 PM
I'm sure merchants are lining up to adopt bitcoins as their currency.  Why use US dollars where the volatility is maybe 3% in a bad week and credit card merchant fees eat a whopping 2.5%, while bitcoins can drop over 25% in a week.

Bitcoin is not dead, but it is suffering many flesh wounds.
1488  Economy / Speculation / Re: Time to buy on the MyBitcoin News? on: August 06, 2011, 06:19:40 PM
To be honest, I'm surprised we took this long to reach single digits.  I thought we were going to hit sub $10 in less than 2 weeks after the $30 bubble (dead cat bounce), and then the Gox hax came around and I was sure sub $10 was right around the corner.  I was wrong, and it took quite a lot longer.  But it still got there.
1489  Economy / Speculation / Re: BITCOIN JUST HIT 7.77 on: August 06, 2011, 06:17:27 PM
777, THE NUMBER OF GOD

THE END IS NEAR, EVERYONE SELL!

If it hits $6.66 Bernanke's head will spin 360 degrees
1490  Economy / Speculation / Re: just hit 8 on mtgox on: August 06, 2011, 04:55:04 PM
However, it's important to remember the hundreds of thousands (millions?) of coins people picked up for under $1.  Those coins could pull us below current miner productivity if those people want to go ahead and get a bunch of USD out over and above what they put in, which many of them could do at prices well below the cost of production.

The above is a very important point to remember.  I have read many times on this forums claims that bitcoin's value cannot fall below production cost (about $4 to $8, today).  This nonsense of course, for the above reason.  The cost today is much higher than the cost 6 months ago, or 12 or 18.  Bitcoins were produced at cents per bitcoin at the beginning.  All these are still floating around.  If early adopters believe 'this is the last gasp' of bitcoin, watch out.

A wise word to investors: don't go throwing good money after bad. 
1491  Bitcoin / Mining / Re: Hey, shouldn't we pull out of mining before the difficulty change? on: August 06, 2011, 12:26:20 PM
I don't know if this would work or not... It would make the difficulty change after the adjustment lower.

People won't do that, for this reason:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tragedy_of_the_commons

1492  Economy / Speculation / Re: Doomsday bears have their own interests in mind. on: August 06, 2011, 11:47:04 AM
he / she now holds 5k at an average price $3 and has put $15k at risk. If bitcoins are worth 0.00 in the future he/she lost $15k and walks away. They were smart and knew their risk. This $15k won't hurt them as much as might hurt $500 someone else. If coins are ever worth more in the future, he /she will eventually profit. Simple as that. Everything else all this bears/bulls  you are a troll or whatever else forum name calling is a pointless background noise.

Brilliant.  You either pump money into bitcoins or are a troll.  I need to suggest that on other forums where I have a vested interest in the price of my investment rising.
1493  Economy / Economics / Re: Most Bitcoin speculators are at the 'denial' stage of the crash on: August 06, 2011, 10:58:12 AM
Long term it's only going up, so i'm not being optimist, i'm being realist.

Long term it's going down, so I'm not being a pessimist, I'm being a realist.

$9.30 at the moment and getting close to that $9 wall that inevitably disappears as the price approaches that level.  Bitcoin has been in a slide since the $30 intra day high several months ago.  I have yet to see anything that would cause that trend to reverse.

Its often been said that bitcoin's price goes down on weekends.  We've had one hell of a long weekend so far.
1494  Economy / Economics / Re: "Holding a pile of cash in a bank account is madness." on: August 06, 2011, 10:53:18 AM
If bitcoins lose their fiat value on Mt. Gox by permanently dropping to namecoin levels (or worse yet become unsellable as nobody wants them), they are as good as virtual dust because all merchants have to pay fiat to cover their operating expenses.

This makes me very reluctant to consider bitcoins as a deflationary investment like gold despite it's artificial scarcity.

The last sale price determines the value of gold too, but unlike bitcoins, gold has a proven track record of several thousand years and does not rely on the Internet nor on a mass of miners to process transactions.  From a wealthy investor in the USA, to a farmer in India to a factory worker in China, all would prefer a bar of gold over a USB key with a wallet.dat.

You're right that if Mt Gox is crippled or fails then bitcoin's utility and value plunges.  Sure, there is Tradehill and other exchanges, but it's a little like saying the NYSE, FTSE, and Nikkei closing don't matter because the stock exchange in Australia is still up and running.
1495  Economy / Speculation / Re: I have been warning you tards long enough. When will you learn? on: August 06, 2011, 10:22:13 AM
Average cost is around $3.50 per coin, maybe more $3.00, but we can throw in extra 20% and agree on $3.50. If anyone disagrees please post your exact math for me.

$7.50 to create one bitcoin worth $9.50 here.  I won't post the maths, as I've posted it here many times before.  People paying 10c/kwh are the only ones capable of producing a bitcoin for $3.50.  Some people can do that, a lot can't.

That's the hole point, miners that can't mine with cheap electricity shouldn't, that's EASY EASY EASY (sorry for that I don't get why you guys don't get it) maths and economics. If someone else can produce something else much cheaper then you, lets say bitcoins (this works with pretty much anything), then you as a producer of bitcoins should say to your self, wait know, why should I produce bitcoins when that guy in Russia is producing it much cheaper AND are willing to sell it to the market. Then you shouldn't be a miner, you should be a SMART direct buyer at the exchanges, you should know what he pays to produce it, and you should then buy it with a small margin, that is the real world. Bitcoins, because it's so new didn't for a while work according to economic laws, but it will, and we are seeing it right now.

Don't forget about competing with someone who doesn't pay for power (they do, indirectly, but ignore the costs) and those mining with stolen power (at work, for example, where the employer pays).

Bitcoins are a commodity.  There's enough out there already that even if all miners gave up tomorrow there would be more than enough bitcoins to keep speculators happy.  It's so self evident that I don't know why more people don't get it.  Miners are no longer required and the cost of mining is irrelevant to bitcoin's price.
1496  Economy / Speculation / Re: Doomsday bears have their own interests in mind. on: August 06, 2011, 10:18:51 AM
They are trying to scare you out of the market..get you to sell at $9 thinking that it will go down to $5.
But after you sell, they will buy it, it will go up..then keep going up.
The worst is behind us.

So, you're saying the following:

Bears are bulls in disguise.  They want to drive the price down so they can buy on the cheap.  Bears are wrong.

Bulls are right as naturally they want the price of bitcoins to go up.

1497  Economy / Speculation / Re: R.I.P Bitcoin on: August 06, 2011, 09:37:34 AM
The posts and responses I've read over the past few months have been interesting.

Anyone posting a negative opinion about bitcoin is labeled as someone who wants to drive the price down so that they can buy them on the cheap.

Even the bears are labeled as bulls in hiding by the bulls.  Bitcoin has enough cheerleaders to be able to sustain the impact of negative opinion and debate.
1498  Economy / Speculation / Re: R.I.P Bitcoin on: August 06, 2011, 09:30:35 AM
Lost confidence in Dwolla. Dwolla and Bitcoins were like peas and carrots. When Dwolla gave us the middle finger, that was the last bit of confidence we had left.

No way in hell will it ever get big again if we got as big as we did and still failed.

Everyone is selling.

There is still Liberty Reserve.  Keep your money safe in Costa Rica.
1499  Economy / Speculation / Re: I have been warning you tards long enough. When will you learn? on: August 06, 2011, 09:29:00 AM
Average cost is around $3.50 per coin, maybe more $3.00, but we can throw in extra 20% and agree on $3.50. If anyone disagrees please post your exact math for me.

$7.50 to create one bitcoin worth $9.50 here.  I won't post the maths, as I've posted it here many times before.  People paying 10c/kwh are the only ones capable of producing a bitcoin for $3.50.  Some people can do that, a lot can't.
1500  Bitcoin / Mining / Re: This is just getting nuts on: August 06, 2011, 09:25:17 AM
Look at wall street, people consider a 5% positive ROI in a year as doing *very well*. Imagine that buying a card new depreciates its resale value instantly by 30%, if you pay off the card in 4 months, that's a 70% ROI in 4 months. Admittedly it's riskier, but isn't that the name of the game? Don't like risk, go invest in blue chips (not that they're doing great these days).

There are a couple of differences here.  Investing in the shares of a company is not like investing in bitcoin: the company does something and creates value.  Bitcoin is just a commodity.  Graphics cards are essentially worthless after 2 years.  Increasing DirectX versions make previous card version obselete.  A card may pay off itself in 4 months, but don't forget the case, PSU, CPU, ram, storage, and motherboard required to make that card work.  Payoff time is now much longer. 
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