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Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN] Peerplays - First Ever Blockchain-Based Gaming Platform
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on: May 20, 2017, 01:38:20 AM
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Just to reply to a few points:
1. sports gambling is actually just as complicated in some regards to blockchain technically. Professional gambling syndicates that drive the global pricing market through asia and exchanges like Betfair use armies of quants, monte-carlo & markhov chain simulations to predict the best inferred probabilities of the market. The three largest gambling syndicates in the world rake in around £100m a year in profits. The knowledge they bring to the market trickles down through all the brands and pricing offered by every book. This is soccer gambling. To under estimate the complexities surrounding this operationally is a huge mistake.
2. The largest turnover area for sportsbetting globally is through live-betting, so this is making an in-game bet. This may not be how US bettors see the market but Bet365, the largest sportsbetting operator in the world ($1.8bn turnover in 2016) makes 75% of their profit during live betting. In order to facilitate live betting using decentralised blockchain will be impossible, the reason being that you need to use realtime data to run these markets efficiently and with integrity. In order to collect this data that drives 100% of all in-play betting across ALL sportsbetting brands globally you need scouted data from inside the stadium. Three companies pay tens of millions to sports associations to have this data to sell to the gambling industry officially. IMG and Sportradar, for example, have $100m contracts with ATP (tennis) and NBA (Basketball) for this very reason. They in-turn resell this data to sport betting companies to use in their automated, trading algorithmic betting engines. This speed and integrity of data is not available to scrape on the every day web, especially for tennis. The companies are forbidden from selling any data to gambling companies that have no licenses. The only betting markets that could be driven by peerplays would be non-live events, which may be ok for the US market, but is useless for a global market, especially in Asia and Europe, that expect to be offered live markets and events to bet on. The argument will come back that oracles will be used to push this level of data but its impossible to parse all this data real-time without the help of the official data resellers.
3. China has the worlds biggest gambling market, you just need to google it. Its obvious. All of this market is online. When i refer to slots i refer to online slots and all the gambling i refer to is in regards to online.
4. In Asia many gamblers use agents because as sad as it sounds, gambling is scourge on most Asian societies, especially in China. Gambling is related in China to superstition, fortune and luck. Many agents facilitate credit down to their end users to bypass the need for constant payments and the biggest guys that bet as VIP's (massive turnover) also use the credit system. They have and agreed limit and will normally settle on that threshold every Monday. Bitcoin sportsbooks have definitely been a great new avenue to cut out some of the agents - mainly Japanese market - but the unformalised structure in China (generally run by triads) is deeply embedded in the culture and society. As i mentioned technology needs to be able to localise its product to fit certain markets - as any brand, for any product needs to. Time after time European operators, who are much more sophisticated technologically and operationally have tried to take on China but failed every time because they do not understand the culture and localisation needed to adapt to this market. There are currently 3000 sportsbook brands in China and in order for peerplays to make any global impression it needs to take this market seriously and not just really solely on tech.
5. I think many backers of Peerplays are potentially from markets where the gambling market is hidden or immature for online. I would regard the US and Canada as prime examples. In contrast to European users the experience of gambling online will feel archaic but when you look at Betfair, which is essentially its self a technology company that focuses on gambling they are already looking at blockchain technologies. Don't take for granted that these huge sportsbetting companies that have to handle 100k's transactions and bets per minute are in the dark about technology. Bet365, for example, is now entirely built on Erlang (the same language Whatsapp uses) to give customers all over the world the exact same QoS. They are all working on projects and with partners that are looking at centralised blockchains, like Ripple etc. Bet365 reinvests circa $20m - $30m a year back into their IT infrastructure.
6. I question the structure of the ICO but i feel the developers of Peerplay are probably genuinely trying to have an honest stab at this market but i think their approach is naive in regards to operations, regulations / legalities (we are even yet to see what the US gov will say about ICO's actually being legal themselves yet - Ontario has already said anything not-capped sub $5m could be problematic legally) and the complexities of a global sports betting market.
7. Peerplays could be a great technological accelerator platform for many sports betting companies, i agree. Graphene looks to be a great blockchain to help accelerate the scalability of small operators who are languishing on poor and out dated platforms but they haven't identified this as an aim. As previously mentioned many existing gambling companies are already looking at non coin based ledgers already.
8. These are my opinions, i do not know about any telegram chat room. I generally only use the gambling forums here where i try to explain gambling, probabilities and highlight how bad the current crop of bitcoin platforms are. I know there is certainly vast room for improvement for betting for crpyto users, i just don't agree that DAPPS are the way forward for this space. I do though think the Gnosis solution is a much better business structure. Their white paper, members of their team and experience would give me a much stronger sentiment that they will succeed to some extent.
Solid reply. I didn't know about live betting. I won't reply to your points because they seem to be valid concerns and involve information that I am not versed in. I will say that I disagree about your assessment of DAPPS. For one, this is a new space and is still literally being created. That in and of itself makes Peerplays a viable consideration. Second, Bookie, as I understand, is just one Dapp. Other Dapps can ignore sports betting. I agree that there is a lot to consider and I'll add that considerations are on both sides of the argument. Blockchain and gambling industries. I'm still interested to find out more... |
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1644
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Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN] Peerplays - First Ever Blockchain-Based Gaming Platform
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on: May 19, 2017, 08:45:45 AM
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If you were investing in an energy firm you'd hope to see people on the team who had VAST experience working in that sector, regardless of the technology, because ultimately knowing your product and your end user is the most important factor in making a successful enterprise. Not ONE SINGLE member of the peerplays team has ANY experience of the sports betting or gambling sector (at least the guys at Gnosis actually ran Fairlay for a years to get their feet wet). How has that not caused red-flags to every single investor in this? It is alarmingly stupid. Do you guys know that the majority of all gambling turnover comes from Chinese market and the majority of this is based upon slot games. The turnover is vast and we already see the Chinese government taking a very keen interest in BTC to stop capital flight. Peerplays tells you that they are aimed at the "global" market but every market is different and has different tastes and in China even having the wrong colours on your website for gambling will put people off because superstition and tradition is still far more important to people than the technology platform they are using.
Regarding the European market, first of all its regulated harder than any other jurisdiction in the world and no doubt each gambling commission will start to draft their own licensing laws in tandem with their local governments regarding the policing of this space. As we see with all other non-licensed gambling companies they have their IP's black listed, blocked and fines imposed. Unless Peerplays adheres to that licensing structure they also will face that situation and as sad as it sounds to decentralised zealots the ISP's are centralised, regulated and government controlled. This brings me on to my next point: marketing.
Where the hell is Peerplays marketing plan? Clearly its hype and word of mouth. That didn't get a single gambling company anywhere. The average cost to get a foothold in the UK gambling market is circa $25m a year on a budget so dream on etc... The two main approaches are affiliates and using sponsorship. Affiliation on this peerplays platform is impossible so some other service companies will have to build CRM's to facilitate this, in a smart way, on top of the platform but that goes against the whole decentralisation ethos. Regarding sponsorship, if you look at the whole of the English Premier League you will see vast swathes of team shirts with Asian betting sponsors. The reason for this is because of the succes of this league in Asian countries. It is the most watched league on Earth. This gives you marketing access to huge numbers of potential customers but most importantly it gives your brand integrity which is fundamental to access to Asian customers. Some people will argue, rightly, that provably fair gambling is the best thing for integrity but human beings dont work like this en masse (look at Trump being president). In order to sponsor such a team for your brand you legally have to have a UK gaming license so pretty much mass marketing is impossible for peerplay to the worlds biggest market of customers of sportsbetting.
Concerning the US, well there is a reason why every single sports book from 5Dimes to Betcris, that offers bitcoin, is hiding in Costa Rica with indictment charges from the US federal government so i think we are clear about the US standpoint. Look at the mess that is Daily Fantasy here in the US to understand those complexities and then having to route your FIAT through the US payment system if you do actually want to convert, er no thanks. There's a reason Big Joe on the corner is taking your bets.
I'm sure most people will disagree with me because you are all gambling experts by pulling quotes off the internet that gambling is "booming" and im sure i will be wrong on various things but I see hardly any sensical and experienced debate for this past and second (seriously dubious from my perspective regarding the ICO structure also) ICO but a debate is something i want to stimulate. I agree the bitshares exchange and other similar technologies will be a disruptor but i wouldn't be investing in an energy company my local bar man just started. There's a term called gamblers fallacy and thinking technology is the only thing that will drive this products success is certainly that. Sell while you can.
Speculations aside, the fact remains that many men have experience in the spotrsbetting and gambling sectors, but few have experience in the real time scalable trustless decentralized sportsbook/gambling smartchain actual working product launch on time every time sector. I know Big Joe, and he charges me $5 every time I place a bet no matter if I win or lose. How many of the millions of experienced industry experts will want to use this new tool to grow their customer base. Peerplays is not just a place for gamers, but a LOW COST tool for those in the industry who are continuously looking to offer their customers better deals and more options without having to put up any new investment capital. Because once this dynamic smartchain is released into the wild, it will empower those who choose to use it, and just like every other public blockchain released in history, it will be unstopple (and just like how primitive blockchains drove your parents crazy, this will be very entertaining for you and l to watch the reactions of the humans who erroneously believe that they can and deserve to control science and nature(and people)!)(popcorn ready) It's just an attempt at FUD. Nothing in the post actually identifies anything but generalizations. That is my opinion. If they really cared, they would find the Telegram chat room...and on the off chance it was an honest concern..the Telegram chat room is still a better forum. |
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1645
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Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN] Peerplays - First Ever Blockchain-Based Gaming Platform
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on: May 19, 2017, 01:09:11 AM
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If you were investing in an energy firm you'd hope to see people on the team who had VAST experience working in that sector, regardless of the technology, because ultimately knowing your product and your end user is the most important factor in making a successful enterprise.
Not ONE SINGLE member of the peerplays team has ANY experience of the sports betting or gambling sector (at least the guys at Gnosis actually ran Fairlay for a years to get their feet wet).
A couple of the people mentioned in the OP have a very impressive resume with regards to their telecommunications and Blockchain background. That is in the OP. Whether or not they have any experience in sports betting or the gambling sector, their experience does not preclude past interest in the industry nor does it suggest that they are incapable of it. In fact, I live in an area where Native American casino's are all the rage (one just sprung up and a few more are slated in the next few years). They are profitable and their owners, the respective Tribes, arguably knew nothing about the gambling sector prior to becoming profitable. So I am unsure that the resumes one should be interested in should be focused solely on sports betting and gambling. In fact, I would prefer to see massive experience in tech because this is new and different ground that relies on tech. How has that not caused red-flags to every single investor in this? It is alarmingly stupid. Do you guys know that the majority of all gambling turnover comes from Chinese market and the majority of this is based upon slot games.
If you would like to debate, then please provide numbers. As far as I know, the sports betting estimations I have seen are exclusive of slot machines and thusly that argument doesn't mean anything. Slots in US casino's are also huge and take up a large portion of casino real estate in brick and mortars. But no one here is talking about them because they're irrelevant for the purpose of Peerplays. The turnover is vast and we already see the Chinese government taking a very keen interest in BTC to stop capital flight.
True. But are they prepared to handle decentralization? Westerners can already communicate with them via WeChat and upcoming decentralization efforts will increase that, despite their efforts (Maidsafe comes to mind but there are others). The Chinese can also still buy BTC. I am unsure why you brought this up. If anything, Peerplays incentivizes enduser participation because the Chinese government cannot enforce the laws in every other country when decentralized behavior is occurring. Hence, it doesn't matter. Let them stop nodes. Others will spring up and nodes in countries that they have no jurisdiction will remain. Peerplays tells you that they are aimed at the "global" market but every market is different and has different tastes and in China even having the wrong colours on your website for gambling will put people off because superstition and tradition is still far more important to people than the technology platform they are using.
Interesting point and one I am familiar with...but I also don't think it is of the import that it needs to be considered here...for many reasons that would result us in getting into a cultural discussion that centers on Theology/Non secular societies. Regarding the European market, first of all its regulated harder than any other jurisdiction in the world and no doubt each gambling commission will start to draft their own licensing laws in tandem with their local governments regarding the policing of this space. As we see with all other non-licensed gambling companies they have their IP's black listed, blocked and fines imposed. Unless Peerplays adheres to that licensing structure they also will face that situation and as sad as it sounds to decentralised zealots the ISP's are centralised, regulated and government controlled.
This is an argument that I have seen before when discussing the decentralized nature of communication and dissent. I've never heard the term zealot before but it should be considered that BTC itself still hasn't been shut out of the global audience. There really hasn't been a 'non licensed gambling company' that was decentralized and black listed. We're in uncharted waters here and the laws regarding crypto currencies as it pertains to gambling are still unclear. Many laws preventing gambling, at least in the US, prevent centralized institutions from participation (meaning it is actually legal to gamble in the US online)...meaning that I can't get a credit card company or bank to support it. As much as technicalities are a pain in the ass, they are relevant - and in this case, there is nothing stopping me as a US citizen from using BTC to gamble. In fact, the 2006 law that many people point to in order to prove that gambling is illegal in the US is mostly misinterpreted. It's a law that prevents banks from moving funds from a source where illegal betting may have occurred. In addition, all of the laws in the US focus on servers located in the US. This is a very long and convoluted topic, as you can see, but to save having to write a few more paragraphs at this point, I'll mention that current laws aren't centered upon the individual (except maybe a few state laws and the worst case of individual prosecution that I have heard about was a $500 fine for an individual who won more than $100K in North Dakota) and don't even come close to mentioning crypto currencies. The mess regarding Daily Fantasy is precisely predicated on the fact that it is not mentioned in the legislation...which is why technicality of law is important. Where the hell is Peerplays marketing plan? Clearly its hype and word of mouth. That didn't get a single gambling company anywhere. Maybe they want to work before they talk more. Many of the wildly successful crypto ICO's (I'm looking at 15 minute sellouts here) still have nothing to show and aren't functional. Speculative only. I'll leave this point to speak for itself. I'm sure most people will disagree with me because you are all gambling experts by pulling quotes off the internet that gambling is "booming"
No need to be condescending. I think that the biggest thing I have noticed is that people don't take the time to read more. I am sure many do but the idea of this project spans through multiple discussion forums and projects. I had no idea that the BTStalk forums were so active when this thread was first posted. Just the simple fact alone that the founders originated their is grounds to extrapolate that they are not in it for the quick anything and that the project is anything but something that should be considewred solely speculative. Even if not, there are many other indications. While I will agree that I am not an expert on gambling or even crypto currency; I will concede that point; I don't think that there isn't enough information here. They have been transparent weekly through the BTCTalks and have searchable reputations. Whether Peerplays works or not? I don't know. But I really like the idea of Eight being released in August as a means to display the Unity engine and allow dev API access. Then we have Bookie being released. Peerplays, from what I have observed, has moved in a few different directions with the intention of releasing multiple aspects while others start defining what rhetoric they will use for their project announcements. |
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1647
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Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN] Peerplays - First Ever Blockchain-Based Gaming Platform
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on: May 08, 2017, 09:05:14 PM
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The founders are claiming not looking to make money on this so they claim: A non-profit gambling product. MY ASS! I have worked in the gambling industry, and one thing I have learnt is that this industry is full of greedy people. I was going to invest, but this raises major red flags for me. I would have happily invested if the owners would take a small cut on every transaction. I'm not sure what the end game is of these people, but there is one and they are hiding it from us.
The non profit is for legal issues. I think that your concern is likely based on misperception. Check out the Telegram chat! https://t.me/PeerplaysBlockchain
Exchange link?coinmarketcap.com dont have this coin information?
Currently in crowdfunding mode. Coinmarketcap info will be reenabled after May 30th.
Isnt BCY and XCP also blockchain based gaming platform?
XCP is more not really a gaming platform. They issue assets amongst other purposes. BCY is a very specific gaming entity. They are essentially a crypto version of Magic the Gathering and are not really involved in gambling. Peerplays is a p2p gambling platform that will enable the world's first decentralized sports exchange. Big differences for sure. |
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Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN] Peerplays - First Ever Blockchain-Based Gaming Platform
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on: April 20, 2017, 07:56:22 PM
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Hello to everybody
but I do not find any roadmap for Peerplays and which is the stage right now? Do you have any idea ? Please give a specific answer !
If I want to partecipate to crowdsale why I have to give wallet private key ? It's on crowdsale page "If you are unsure about whether your Bitcoin wallet supports the exportation of private keys, then please use one of the following recommended wallets: "
Thank you
I recommend waiting until tomorrow for any specific answers...there will be a release of new information. Stay tuned! |
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1652
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Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN] Peerplays - First Ever Blockchain-Based Gaming Platform
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on: April 08, 2017, 02:00:26 AM
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I'd like to ask something , there's been long since i had my peerplays in ledger account and now i see that my balance is 0 . Can someone guide me what has happened ?
If you are referring to the Freedom Ledger account then I don't think that you need to worry. I show a balance of 0 as well but I still have a Peerplays balance. Since trading is disabled, their is no monetary value in BTS that can be checked by ledger and returned. That is not to say that they have no value! Just that trading is disabled. Check to see if your assets are still their. If not Freedom Ledger you are talking about , then refer to the previous post from bunkerchain... |
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1653
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Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN] Peerplays - First Ever Blockchain-Based Gaming Platform
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on: April 08, 2017, 01:53:40 AM
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I heard that the rake fee is set to be 0% for texas holdem. Is there a list of announced fees for other products such as the sports betting exchange and online games?
Edit: I have other questions.
What is the ETA for the release of the sports betting exchange?
Are there any screenshots/demos of the sports betting exchange available now?
Really cool project!
ETA for Sports betting is Octobter and there are no screenshots/demos of it yet. Just the testnet release of the Core wallet with implemented features. There is a lot going on so I recommend joining the Telegram chat; that is where the majority of conversation occurs including w/Team members. |
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1655
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Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN] Peerplays - First Ever Blockchain-Based Gaming Platform
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on: March 23, 2017, 01:52:11 AM
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May 30th, thanks. I am sure that was already mentioned in the news thread but I don't follow a ton so I appreciate the date response. I was also curious how the previos poster said he could see them, yet I cannot see anything in my ledger anywhere. By June I guess I'll know eh?
You're welcome. You won't receive them in your ledger account and I don't know why someone said that they could see them already. Either way, it will be possible when the platform launches at the end of May...: ) |
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1657
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Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: ANN [XC] Privacy Based Smart Chain with Automated Build System
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on: March 22, 2017, 04:21:43 AM
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blocknet are the devs of xc
they dont post here because they are hiding away from any criticism from other competition
dash was xc's main competition back in 2014
look what happened
dan atcsecure crushed xc and started blocknet essentially betraying all xc supporters.
arlyn that annoyance who patrols the blocknet thread deletes anyone who asks them question about xc or the funds extracted mostly from xc holders for blocknet devlopment
anyway they seem to be determined to kill xc off and even ensured it got delisted from polo and bittrex.
hopefully they are not full scammers just pussies who ran from bct when they got some flash from camp dash and will return at some point with blocknet so xc may get some life back into it then
shame cos anything masternode is going crazy and xc would have been going that route too
Everything about your post is bullshit save for half of your last sentence. I was there. DRK shills made up five hundred accusations that dissuaded from Dan's work...and then hated that he expanded the scope. To be honest, I am mildly impressed that you still have the motivation to post bullshit after so long. |
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1658
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Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN] Peerplays - First Ever Blockchain-Based Gaming Platform
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on: March 20, 2017, 08:39:16 PM
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New to this thread,Can some one explain in short how it is different from vdice,edgeless etc
I'm no authority since I just heard about edgeless but Peerplays actually predates that one (edgeless isn't first). But as far as I can tell, there are a few differences. The profit sharing aspect is not the same, Peerplays is based on tech that currently scales better than Ethereum (Graphene is capable of 3300 tps according to the last stress test), and the edgeless timeline is a bit further out according to estimates from both camps. They do have a blackjack beta but Peerplays has a testnet up that I believe will eventually include its own decentralized exchange (someone should correct me if I am wrong). Peerplays also has plans to sidechain to other alts but I am not sure how prioritized that aspect of the project is. Hope that helps...and I am not really too familiar with VDice. |
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