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401  Bitcoin / Press / Re: 2013-02-12 Bitcoin on HuffPost Live tonight @5PMEST/22GMT on: February 13, 2013, 09:16:36 PM
Lol, can we get play out of confusion over Amazon's stupid naming?
402  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: Rollover transaction fees on: February 13, 2013, 09:12:49 PM
Can you help me see my contradiction in the first part? If miners know they'll be ignored if they don't pay half or more to the next block then if they are offered half they'll never try to remine since they'd have to pay out half anyway.

Yeah, it is weird Smiley.

Basically, the best strategy depends on what everyone else is doing.  However, that depends on the best strategy, so there is a loop.

So, lets assume that everyone mines one of the top-2 blocks, 50% always mine the highest block with the highest fees and 50% mine the highest fee block of the top-2.

There is a large transaction included in the top block, say fee of 100 coins.

If you mine the top block, you get 25 coins, if you win (standard miner reward).  Also, since the highest transaction is now 2 behind, everyone will stay on your block.

However, if you mine the 2nd highest and get it, you will win 125 coins, but only if the block is then built upon.  You help this by setting your fee to 0.1 coin (i.e. slightly above the best so far), so all the top-builders switch to you.

Once you win, then there will be 50% mining your block and 50% continuing with the 2nd highest block.  That gives a 50% chance that you win the full 125 (if one of the top miners wins the next block) and 50% chance someone else will replace your block.

So, on average you will win 62.5 by mining the 2nd highest block and 25 by mining the top block.

Thus most will mine the 2nd highest block.

If x mine the 2nd highest and (1-x) mine the highest, then

Option 1: mine the 2nd highest and win
- (1-x) you win full reward (125)
- x you win nothing (since someone else adds a block with 0.01 above your fee)

You win (1-x) * 125

Option 2: mine the highest and win
- 25

For balance, both must be equal, or people will switch strategy to the better one, so

(1 - x) * 125 = 25

x = 0.8

Therefore, 80% will mine the 2nd highest block and 20% will mine the top block.

This doesn't make sense to me. Why would anyone choose the lower value strategy?
403  Economy / Web Wallets / Re: Blockchain.info - Bitcoin Block explorer & Currency Statistics on: February 13, 2013, 06:14:13 PM
Is anyone else getting "Unrecognized search pattern" on every bitcoin address lookup?

404  Economy / Service Discussion / Re: coinbase.com sending unconfirmed? Huge risk? on: February 13, 2013, 06:03:55 PM
Wow, now I understand why a transaction I sent from coinbase last night was unconfirmed, 11 hours later this morning.  Glad to hear they are on it.

Have we had anyone from Coinbase/hear from Coinbase about this issue? I have emailed and submitted tickets, and I have received no feedback at all.

Brian Armstrong has replied in this very thread.
405  Economy / Service Discussion / Re: coinbase.com sending unconfirmed? Huge risk? on: February 13, 2013, 08:00:39 AM
I'm nearly certain coinbase will pay if you pester them. This or something similar has happened twice to Seals players and it has been fixed by coinbase sending new funds.
406  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: Rollover transaction fees on: February 12, 2013, 06:43:36 PM
I expect building on the latest block will continue to be the norm, but for different reason (rollover payments) in the future.

In the future if some blocks offer rollover payments and some do not the ones that do will be built on, not the first ones to hit the network. My guess is that the rollover payment will be half of the fees in the block. If that was the norm then when faced with a choice between building on the previous block and getting half of its fees or re-mining the block, offering nothing (or less than half) in rollover fees and having your block ignored (by everyone who is expecting and already has available a version of that block that offers 50%) you will choose to build on the block.

That contradicts yourself.  If miners decide on the basis of rollover payments, then they may decide to mine against the older blocks, esp if there is a large fee for some of the transactions into those blocks.

If they solve it before the next block is found and offer a larger fee, then many miners will then switch to their block. 

The algorithm could be, try to add to the longest chain and if a tie, add to the block which pays the largest to "true".  You might have difficulty getting the new block propagated, but if there is a small number of mining pools, you could send it to them directly and get most of the mining power.

There is a tradeoff, mining earlier blocks lets you get more tx fees.  However, there is a risk the rest of the network will have moved on by the time you solved it.

Quote
I'm still not clear on how to accomplish a rollover payment.

The transaction fee pays into the block.  If you include a transaction, you can direct the funds to the coinbase transaction.  The output of the coinbase transaction can be anything the miner wants.  If he leaves some funds pay to "true", then it is the same as offering a tx fee to whoever adds the next block.  However, they only get it if their block sticks.

Oh, I think I got it now. I was forgetting that fees earned are just like subsidy and was thinking that method could only be used to pass on up to all of the subsidy.

Can you help me see my contradiction in the first part? If miners know they'll be ignored if they don't pay half or more to the next block then if they are offered half they'll never try to remine since they'd have to pay out half anyway.
407  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: Rollover transaction fees on: February 12, 2013, 03:39:17 AM
I expect building on the latest block will continue to be the norm, but for different reason (rollover payments) in the future.

In the future if some blocks offer rollover payments and some do not the ones that do will be built on, not the first ones to hit the network. My guess is that the rollover payment will be half of the fees in the block. If that was the norm then when faced with a choice between building on the previous block and getting half of its fees or re-mining the block, offering nothing (or less than half) in rollover fees and having your block ignored (by everyone who is expecting and already has available a version of that block that offers 50%) you will choose to build on the block.

I'm still not clear on how to accomplish a rollover payment.
408  Economy / Trading Discussion / Re: Do people not take dwolla? or is it just me? on: February 12, 2013, 03:29:56 AM
If you dont like something i have said you can take that up with me personally by PM me we can discus any problems that you may have with me or my post.   

What? This silly thread is about you, that's what you asked in the tittle.
409  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Moral Obligations of Bitcoin on: February 11, 2013, 08:50:47 PM
Yes! You better trace it all the way back to a coinbase tx!
410  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: Rollover transaction fees on: February 11, 2013, 01:44:46 AM
Unless you are meaning something I can't think of, anyone who sees the block that you desire to be built upon can take the tx out and put it in their own block regardless of whether they use your block or not. And they can spend it in the same block in which they include it.

No, you are right.  I skipped a step or something.

[edit]

or maybe, it is still reasonable.

The idea would be that it allows a miner to give fees to the next miner.  In effect, if he includes a transaction in the block which pays to "true", then whoever solves the next block can redirect it to themselves.

So, if someone pays a large tx fee, then the miner has an incentive to leave some for the next miners.  If he doesn't they will keep mining against the previous block.


Yes, I totally get the idea of passing some on as incentive to the next miner. I'm only wondering about what implementation is currently possible. I think if this does not require a protocol change it will happen on it's own (maybe in 20+ years).

Actually leaving out high fee tx as a treat for the next miner is super gross.
411  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: Rollover transaction fees on: February 10, 2013, 11:28:30 PM
I was trying to think how to pay someone for choosing to build on your block using what is currently available.

Including a tx that anyone can redeem doesn't work, that tx can just be put in a later block.

But the miner has first call. 

If he transfers the coin to his own address, the only way to get that coin from him is to keep mining the previous block.

However, if the reward was high enough, it might be worth it. 

There could be a large number of forks, but only for 1 block.  However, if the winner only takes some of the reward, then there is less of an incentive.

If people spend to long on that one block, then someone else might be able to get 2-3 blocks all at once.

Unless you are meaning something I can't think of, anyone who sees the block that you desire to be built upon can take the tx out and put it in their own block regardless of whether they use your block or not. And they can spend it in the same block in which they include it.
412  Economy / Gambling / Re: SealsWithClubs.eu | Largest Bitcoin Poker Site | No Banking | Fast Cashouts on: February 10, 2013, 11:09:46 PM
Hey Seals, there's a typo in your second affiliate banner.  It says "EXTREMLY LOW RAKE" (vice Extremely).

Whoops, thanks.
413  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: Why does the difficulty adjust every 2016 blocks? Why not every block? on: February 10, 2013, 09:43:36 PM
I have a feeling that Satoshi new he might be alone for a while and didn't want to "give himself" low difficulty and very high block rewards. I mean he did get to have highest ever block rewards, but at least he gave others 4 years to get in on that. 4 years was probably his "by then or never" guess.

Or maybe he figured we could use some free media every 4 years :-)
414  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: Why does the difficulty adjust every 2016 blocks? Why not every block? on: February 10, 2013, 09:32:44 PM
Even if you solve the pick-your-own timestamp issue which is far from trivial, like eleuthria says, you would just get wildly fluctuating difficulty. Sometimes you'll find blocks within 1 second of each other and difficulty will go up 600x or more, then since it will take so long to find that high difficulty block (much worse than you expect because many miners will just turn off) that you'll have a very low difficulty next year when someone finds that block and difficulty will go way down, then BAM next block found and sky high difficulty again.

But even if we adjust the difficulty every block, that doesn't mean it has to be calculated solely with respect to the previous block. As someone else said upthread, you could keep a moving average of, say the last 200 blocks. That would smooth things out.

But I can see the OPs proposal being a serious pain in the arse for miners (of whom I am one). As it is, you have to keep reassessing every two weeks or so, whether it is still profitable to mine. If the difficulty (and hence, payout on a share in a pool) changes every block that would make it a bit of a nightmare to calculate profitability. The incentive to mine would be reduced, and without miners Bitcoin can't work.

Hijiack: What I *do* think would have been a good idea would be for the block rewards to have decayed more smoothly, say every month instead of every four years. Then again, the sky didn't appear to fall last December, not even with those pesky Mayans egging it on.

Ah, I overlooked continual readjusting based on a large number of blocks.

I don't think it would be that bad for miners turn-off decisions. If they really wanted to stop asap when difficulty reached a certain point that is trivial to code. As it is profitability already fluctuates in real time based on the bitcoin value.
415  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: Rollover transaction fees on: February 10, 2013, 07:52:44 AM
I was trying to think how to pay someone for choosing to build on your block using what is currently available.

Including a tx that anyone can redeem doesn't work, that tx can just be put in a later block.
416  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: BitcoinWireless.com - 280 carriers in 112 countries, Bitcoin with no fees! on: February 09, 2013, 09:49:04 PM
You guys might want to test out that feedback form. I asked a simple question ~16 hours ago and didn't get a response.
417  Economy / Speculation / Re: When are you going to cash out? on: February 09, 2013, 09:38:34 PM
If you are in a position where bitcoins are too valuable for you to spend you are making or have made some bad mistake.

Decide what % you want in bitcoins, wait, sell bitcoins to get back to that %.

If you get stupidly rich you aren't going to keep living like you were forever.
418  Economy / Economics / Re: The Bitcoin Singularity is Near on: February 09, 2013, 09:18:11 PM
From Ron/Shamir: "If we sum up the amounts accumulated at the 609,270 addresses which only receive and never send any BTC's, we see that they contain 7,019,100 BTC's, which are almost 78% of all existing BTC's."

This is way way different from saying that 70% of 'coins' (whatever that means) never move. If every bitcoin moved every single hour but everyone always used new addresses then every single address with coins at it would receive but never send!
419  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Bitcoin and the 'Currency Wars': Venezuela formally devalues the Bolivar by 32% on: February 09, 2013, 07:30:08 PM
So basically, if I lived in Venezuela, and had 100K Bolivars on my account, they were suddenly worth 32% less ? Damn.. I would be so mad.


On the bright side that is still way above fundamental value.
420  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: BitcoinWireless.com - 280 carriers in 112 countries, Bitcoin with no fees! on: February 09, 2013, 11:32:39 AM
I tried it for the first time a couple of days ago.

I followed the instructions to send 0.4239 BTC to some address. Some time later I got a confirmation that the funds were received. The message said "You should now wait to receive a third email, which provides instructions from your carrier in order to credit your mobile phone. This email may take up to a few hours to receive."

I didn't receive the follow-up email or the credit on my phone after 24 hours. They've ignored a follow-up email as well as a message I sent from the contact form on their web site.

At best, they're disorganized and their customer support sucks. At worst, it's a scam.

I've already decided that I won't use them again. I'm interested in hearing if anyone else has successfully gotten credit.

Geez, it's clearly not a scam, the same guys already move 10s or 100s of thousands of coins per month, it's just new and they are working out the kinks I'm sure.

But when you launch and ask for feedback would be a good time to be quick on support, my simple inquiry via the form on the website is like 10 hours waiting.
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