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1141  Economy / Economics / Re: Is taking a loan/debt addicted ? on: February 02, 2023, 12:19:49 PM
Well, I have to clarify that personally I have never had any loan or debt in my life so this thread has nothing to do with my experience but intends to find out how people in loan/debt deal with the problem. Let's say you take loans from a bank and sometimes for whatever reason, you can not pay the debt on time, then you borrow money from other channels. Sure this works for a certain period but later bad things may happen, you have to postpone the payment and struggle with finances again. Isn't this a vicious circle ? How would you deal with the problem ? I am all ears.

Getting a loan from a bank is a very risky activity.  The bank loan will need to be repaid (in this case, not only the body of the loan, but also the accrued interest payable). 

Therefore, a loan can be taken only for very important purposes (for example, for business development or for the acquisition of promising real estate).  Some borrowers believe that it is acceptable to take a bank loan for the purpose of obtaining higher and secondary education (however, in my opinion, this is a controversial point of view). 

Refinancing does not solve the problem, as it only increases the credit burden. 

In my opinion, you should try not to resort to a loan of credit funds in principle.
Taking a loan is a risky move, but the risk varies depending on the reason you're receiving the loan. I've had acquaintances with unstable jobs take an expensive car loan at a young age because they want to show off with their car; I've had others who wanted money in order to afford a vacation, and paying a loan with monthly instalments was their way to go. These two examples both show an awful approach. The only reason I'd be okay with taking a loan would be for investment purposes, such as repairing or renovating a property for personal use, renting, or selling.

Not exactly a loan, but one more use of credit cards is to pay for stuff you can't avoid, such as insurance, taxes, etc., in interest-free installments, making it more affordable to pay and usually earning cashback points depending on your card.
1142  Economy / Economics / Re: Is taking a loan/debt addicted ? on: February 01, 2023, 04:15:08 PM
I've also noticed a trend of taking small, unnecessary loans of a few thousand euros from a few people in my surroundings. The majority of people are easily tricked into thinking that it's fine to pay a relatively small amount of money on a monthly basis and are carried away, not taking into account the accumulating interest or accruing payments. This is also common with credit cards, which are way more convenient and quicker than taking a loan. Credit cards are practically a form of borrowing money since you're basically going into debt in order to purchase something, making it look more affordable to conduct purchases with money you don't actually possess.
1143  Economy / Economics / Re: Is renting an inevitable waste of money? on: January 31, 2023, 06:42:23 PM
Renting has its ups and downs, but honestly I'd rather choose to buy my own house than to get stuck living in someone else's for the rest of my life. Renting is outrightly affordable compared to owning a house that's for sure, but it becomes a liability over time while a house flips you profits through appreciation. Although you are given the liberty of leaving and relocating should things not turn up well in your current residence when you rent, you can pretty much do the same thing as well with buying real estate you would live in, just with some extra steps.
Renting a house is a bit affordable because they don't really think about other things like taxes and maintenance, but the average person renting their house is working out of town which makes it easy for them to move anytime with a fixed contract duration, however I feel the same way when working at out of town and only pay the rent every month and then don't think about other costs.

But now I have my own house in my hometown and well we have to pay a lot for everything that is needed, taxes every year, expensive maintenance, other rents are my responsibility, so the landlord has to be prepared with all of that but somehow I'm happy be in your own home without having to rent again.

Regarding the comparison of renting or owning your own house, it's really relative, how can we see the advantages and disadvantages.
But I think renting is not a waste if he can manage finances properly.
House rental is generally a complicated and controversial subject. It's usually cheaper than paying a loan, but it also depends on your country of residence. However, as the previous poster already mentioned, I'd rather pay more and deal with everything myself than have to chase my landlord for every single thing that's malfunctioning. I've had my fair share of landlords, and the majority of them were awfully unhelpful with maintenance issues and generally had unpleasant experiences. Despite all the concerns stated by other posters regarding maintenance and taxes, the feeling of owning your own personal space is unbeatable.
1144  Economy / Exchanges / Re: List of Scam Crypto Exchanges.. on: January 31, 2023, 03:58:49 PM
I've never heard of any of these, and although your effort is appreciated, the list will never be complete or functional since an abundance of fake exchanges pop up every single day. Users should avoid visiting exchanges promoted in Discord or Telegram groups. On top of that, there's a relatively new trend of fake exchanges claiming to have a higher sell price than trusted, valid ones and promoting people into depositing their coins there in order to claim arbitrage profits. Unfortunately, the exchanges are fake, and you'll end up losing your funds.
1145  Economy / Speculation / Re: Month January 23 - the best month since bitcoin? on: January 30, 2023, 06:58:20 PM
Well it could be but I guess it won't mean a thing. What we are waiting for is a total recovery

recovery..?
oh please take your inflation economics words/mindset and turn them upside down(bitcoin is deflationary by the way)

the 2021 ATh was not a point of sustained value. it was a inflation bubble PREMIUM due to burst like all ATH do.
the burst and recovery(correct down) back from a premium to near value point. which in 2022 was a $15k value bottom and a market price bottom of $16k

the recovery happened. now its the growth.
slow growth is good as it gives the time for the non-zero bottom value to grow too (below the market price). without the high speculation volatility bubble and pops of the market price going too premium to pop again soon


The recovery has not happened how has it happened when we were much higher then we are right now? We might be in the recovery but we are not recovered yet. The bitcoin price jump was not because of inflation and btc being deflationary would support the argument of a total recovery. If you believe btc is deflationary then the bottom means nothing and the only concern is recovering to our ath or near enough it. Atm we are a too far away to call this a recovery.
As Franky already mentioned, the ATH wasn't of sustainable value; it was a bubble bound to burst. It was unrealistic to speculate that Bitcoin would just keep gaining in value; it needs sustained growth, and that's what's happening right now. The bottom was at approximately $15,000; now we're back in our growth phase, and that's a recovery. Just because it's not the recovery many users anticipate, due to them taking into account the $69,000 ATH, doesn't mean we're not headed towards one. It's way too early to speculate on the future, but the halving is about a year from now.
1146  Economy / Economics / Re: I have resolved into buying more and caring less on: January 29, 2023, 05:50:20 PM
I'm not actively purchasing bitcoin myself, but I receive a steady amount on a weekly basis through my signature campaign. Unfortunately, I don't have the budget now to keep buying, otherwise I would. I've stopped bothering about the market situation, not to mention that during a bear market you can accumulate more, so that's a huge plus that I don't mind at all.

I don't see the point in caring about the market situation during a full economic recession; nothing much is performing well now, and there's absolutely nothing we can do but wait it out. I'm in the red during the bear market, but with the first real bull run, I'll reach my DCA; I'm just a little off. 
1147  Economy / Economics / Re: Keeping money and keeping bitcoins? are they similar? on: January 29, 2023, 04:00:06 PM
Basically the same but saving in bitcoin is more oriented to investment or to take capital gains just like stocks, in the system but like most people bitcoin has quite extreme volatility even though basically the same bitcoin and fiat are currencies but in my opinion it depends on the person looking at it for that matter.
In my opinion, goals and expectations are definitely different in saving in bitcoin and fiat currency, but if the goal is to finance old age it is better in bitcoin because as we know bitcoin will provide wealth to those who hold it in the long term.
As I've mentioned earlier, I'm saving both money in fiat and bitcoin, but the latter is much more meaningful since it's probable that it'll be worth more in the near future. Both are necessary. On the one hand, fiat currencies are always handy in our daily lives, whether we like it or not, while on the other, investments are a great way to increase your value. Fiat currencies are inevitable, but it's certainly best to diversify and at least attempt to invest some of your savings in Bitcoin or stocks. Personally, acquiring Bitcoin has been one of the best decisions I've ever made, without too much hassle, and despite the bear market, I'm just a little off my DCA.
1148  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Do not waste your time on: January 29, 2023, 01:23:28 PM
Spend time on things or activities that will change your life positively. Arrange your finance, invest and save wisely.
Stop wasting your time on Social media solely to view and comment on pictures only.
 Invest in something today
Op, you're making money from social Media. Instead of advocating people from social media, encourage them to use the social media for their gain and make cash from it. For me I do my businesses online and make my money here, when people see me pressing my phone always, they think am not a serious person. The world is changing and we have to develop ourselves to be part of it. Social media has changed so many people from grass to grace, for those that ultilise it.
Life doesn't have to revolve around making money; social media can be used in moderation for communication, information, and entertainment purposes. Unfortunately, it's not easy to contain yourself from overusing social media; I continuously catch myself killing way too much time on them. One of my largest regrets is not taking advantage of the free time I had during the Covid-19 quarantines. Free time was almost infinite, and I spent most of it watching TV series and movies when I could have started learning a new foreign language or taking up a hobby. The most productive thing I did was rejoin BitcoinTalk and cryptocurrencies, and I'm thankful for it.
1149  Economy / Speculation / Re: Bitcoin might reach $30,000 in the first half of 2023 and $50,000 in the second on: January 29, 2023, 10:52:34 AM
Well, if nothing else. Just for good vibes, right? Everyone can give their own prediction so you can very well give yours also. Now, the difference is how you react on this speculation. Are you going to buy more satoshis or just observe for the time being? In this market, we have seen that anything is possible depending on the news surrounding this market.
It is also possible that they will buy at this point, but considering that anything can happen in the market. So buyers also very often observe market conditions by looking at news that can affect all markets including the crypto market in general. The price range written in this topic is not too big if you look at the price levels that are circulating in the market now, so the possibility of reaching it is also greater, although my belief is only at $ 25K in the near future, not at $ 30K.
until now the price of Bitcoin continues to move up, for a price of $ 25K it is very realistic and even I say it is very possible for a price of $ 30K in early 2023.
however, this speculation can happen with all possibilities and people's belief in what will happen in the future is, of course, still in uncertainty, but there are several indicators that can be used as a reference so that these speculations are most likely to occur.

For me personally, I believe in a positive movement that continues to occur as it is now, although slowly, but I believe it will continue to move in a positive direction.
I was actually one of those who believed that the current bull run would be short lived, but till now I've been proven wrong. I was anticipating that the market would eventually fall back to lower levels, but it doesn't look like it's going to happen anytime soon. Bitcoin seems to be moving towards the $25,000 mark, and $30,000 should be just around the corner within the next few months.

I'm honestly a little bit disappointed because I was planning to purchase BNB and also preferred the bear market in order to accumulate more Bitcoin. I've set a goal to acquire at least 0.25 BTC until the end of the year, and the previous bear market was setting the ideal conditions for it to happen.
1150  Economy / Economics / Re: Success is fundamentally determined by luck, not effort. on: January 28, 2023, 07:01:31 PM
Success certainly isn't determined by one parameter but by a combination of factors, such as effort, luck, opportunities, etc. However, luck can play a vital role in your path because you may be struck with an unexpected opportunity, such as a job offer, but luck alone will rarely take you very far. Even if you're lucky enough to win the lottery, you'll need to possess a combination of characteristics in order to continue being rich.

Although if you're lucky enough to be born into a wealthy family, chances are that your life will be much easier compared to the average person, which is a completely different story. You'll have many more open doors and opportunities, and earning money when you already have money is far easier.
1151  Economy / Economics / Re: When your passive income equals or slightly above your salary, what would you do on: January 28, 2023, 02:18:43 PM
Unfortunately, there isn't a straightforward answer to your question; it depends on a variety of parameters, such as your current living costs, country of residence, and so on. First and foremost, are you getting insurance benefits and stamps (for a pension) from your current occupation? If yes, that's another parameter you'll have to take into account. Moreover, how stable is your passive income and from where does it derive? If it's coming from real estate, such as renting properties, chances are that you'll be able to have a passive income for your entire lifetime. Bear in mind that your current way of making money may not be viable in the next 20–30 years. I could be completely wrong, but you haven't specified what exactly you do.

Although you mention that you truly despise working at your current job, I'd quit, take a small break from working, and start looking for something that is at least part-time in order to have an extra source of income and the working benefits I mentioned earlier.
1152  Economy / Economics / Re: Is renting an inevitable waste of money? on: January 28, 2023, 01:39:46 PM
The average rent for a one-bedroom apartment is between €300 and €400 at best; thus, I was thinking that taking a loan is as costly as paying rent per month, but after 15-20 years, you end up with a house. My main concerns are the following: First, if you're in a long-term relationship like myself, you can never be 100% sure that you'll be with that person in 20 or 30 years from now, which might prevent you from opting for a loan. Secondly, you need to be certain that the location or city of the property to be bought is convenient for future job offers and so on. Thirdly, because a loan is a many-year commitment, there's no guarantee that you'll be able to afford the monthly payment 15 years from now.
Taking a loan is as expensive as renting an apartment but it has it's advantage of making you the owner of the house after a period of time lets say 15 -20 years as mentioned in OP when the loan is finally settled. And i was also thinking that there is no point been in a long term relationship when the picture of how the relationship will be in the next 15 - 30 years is not clear. The longer we spend we people the more we know if we really want to be with them or not. Secondly since it is still a relationship with no legal document binding you both taking a loan has nothing to do with your relationship. Except you both are paying for it together
Unfortunately, it's one of the major concerns when you're in a long-term relationship at a relatively young age. A few other users suggested that you could possibly take the loan in your name and practically own the house yourself, but that wouldn't look too good as a couple, to be honest. A few others also suggested what you claimed: taking the loan together under two different names since we're not legally bound, but I don't think that's possible here; you have to be married or engaged to have a joint loan. I could be wrong, but loans are a completely different story between the USA and Europe.
1153  Economy / Economics / Re: U.S dollar almost equal to Euro on: January 27, 2023, 06:16:27 PM
Since on the other topic, we were talking bout the death of the dollar I remembered this gem!   Grin
So what happened, did we again fail to kill the Euro and the Eurozone?


https://finance.yahoo.com/quote/EURUSD=X/

Were all the fearmongers and the illiterate who have never set foot in Europe or can't even pinpoint it on a map wrong again?

Seems like the Euro is back where it was one year ago, the ECB hasn't destroyed the economies or skyrocketed the debt to unpayable levels, no crushing unemployment, and the economy has kept growing even adjusted with the inflation, so what conclusions should we draw out of this?
Maybe not everyone is cut to be an analyst or an economist. Just saying!



It took me a while to realize that the euro has recovered this much; I actually saw it a day or two ago and I had completely forgotten about this thread. Still, it's way lower than it used to be a few years ago, when it was usually ranging between $1.18 and $1.20 per euro, but it's still an improvement for the market. I was actually worried and frustrated when the euro went as low as $0.98/EUR, and it did get me thinking for the worse. Fortunately, it seems that the crisis has been averted, although it could have been a great earning opportunity for those who were willing to take the risk of exchanging currencies back and forth.
1154  Economy / Economics / Re: Is renting an inevitable waste of money? on: January 27, 2023, 04:45:41 PM
The answer is of course not black and white. Both, renting and owning come with a lot of pros and cons.

Just a few things to consider, when renting:
- the money you would have to pay to your bank every month (which is usally more than rent) can now be used to invest in other things, such as Bitcoin
- you will be a slave to a bank-contract for 20 - 40 years unless you manage to achive quite some financial wealth in the meantime - which is more difficult now (see my first point)
- owning property comes with a lot of stress and time investment if you rent it out to someone else; in contrast to stock bonds or crypto assets mainting your property takes a lot of extra expenses and effort
- you are more flexible to move from a rented place without much liabilities compared to living in your own home

There are some nice benefits from owning property, too. But these are usually well-known and highlighted without the downsides, so I just gave you my idea on the latter.
Certainly, the answer is never black and white; both options always have advantages and disadvantages. However, I don't understand how the money I'd use to pay the bank can be invested since that amount of money will be spent on rent. In some cases, the monthly payment may not even exceed the average rent. Moreover, if I spend my whole life paying rent, in a few years I will have paid the equivalent of buying a house myself. Owning a property may come with stress and other issues, but you're comfortable knowing that the house is yours and you can do whatever you please.
1155  Economy / Economics / Re: Keeping money and keeping bitcoins? are they similar? on: January 26, 2023, 08:24:09 PM
I'd say both. Personally, I'm someone who is decent at managing my finances and has always saved money in order to have purchasing power at any moment and because I like having money at hand. I do the exact same thing with Bitcoin: I save every bit I receive. Although I believe that because Bitcoin is perceived as a valuable asset that is likely to be worth more in the future, it may encourage saving for some people who aren't as capable of saving money in fiat currencies.
1156  Economy / Economics / Re: Is renting an inevitable waste of money? on: January 26, 2023, 06:43:04 PM
Excuse me for not replying sooner but I had a terrible stomach yesterday and I'm now recovering, I'll try to summarise as much as I can.
~Snipped~
I've had such a tough time dealing with landlords in the past that there are times that I'd prefer if I could repair stuff at my own expense rather than deal with them. I've had landlords prohibit pets (a cat in my case), not repair stuff that broke due to old age, or even break inside my house when I'm away. Certainly, both options have benefits and drawbacks, but in my opinion, owning gives you some peace of mind knowing that you can do any modifications as you please without having anyone over your shoulder.
~Snipped~
Exactly, we've spent over €25,000 in the past few years that we could have added another €25,000-€35,000 and bought a semi-decent apartment that I could either sell in the future or rent if I no longer want to live in it.
~Snipped~
You're right, I forgot to add the average salary here and have only mentioned on a previous reply, the average salary here is about €700-€800, with the minimum being at €620.

I'll summarize because quoting every single post is a little tiring. We've been together for about 4.5 years, and we've lived together for more than 3 of those years. I'm not trying to imply that renting is a complete waste of money; you're paying to have a house to live in, but the end result is zero gains in terms of property gains. In a few more years of renting, I will have spent the equivalent of buying an apartment; thus, in some ways, it looks like a waste of money.

The general rule applies that if you can't afford something, don't buy it, but a loan for an apartment would approximately cost €300–€400 per month, which is about the same cost as the rent I'm paying now, but over a payment period of over 20 years.
1157  Economy / Economics / Re: A bullish case: HOW MUCH #BITCOIN to get rich and fund your lifestyle? on: January 26, 2023, 01:45:09 PM
I also support Fivestar4ever's opinion that Bitcoin made those who invested early extremely rich in a period of a few years. However, I don't believe that's the case now. I read the complete article and find it extremely exaggerated. It's claiming that as little as 0.001 BTC can make you in the top 50%, while any amount over 0.1 BTC will make you in the top 1%. I find it completely doubtful that such an amount of BTC could be changed live. It can certainly assist your financial situation, but it won't change your life completely. If that's the case, I'll be in the top 1% in just a few years, probably not.
1158  Economy / Economics / Re: Is renting an inevitable waste of money? on: January 24, 2023, 08:15:17 PM
~Snipped~
The minimum wage is at €620, with an average of €700–€800; thus, a rent of €400 is prohibitive if you're planning to live by yourself. Even a couple may struggle. With this upcoming loan program that I mentioned, the monthly payments are actually a little cheaper or approximately the same as renting.
~Snipped~
Certainly, there's no direct answer to the question, but yes, the general rule is to avoid renting if possible. I'm generally quite handy when it comes to house repairs; I'd be able to repair a few things that may occur, but it doesn't apply to costly appliances such as a fridge or an oven.
~Snipped~
Definitely, both options have their benefits and drawbacks, but some of those you mentioned apply to both renting and buying. For instance, at least in my case, finding a house near the center is a huge issue for two reasons: higher rent costs and a lack of parking spaces. However, the largest issue with a loan is commitment, whereas in renting, you can practically leave whenever you want.
1159  Economy / Economics / Is renting an inevitable waste of money? on: January 24, 2023, 05:49:08 PM
If you're young and haven't inherited a property from your ancestors, chances are that you're forced to rent. Personally, I've been renting for over 6 years and have been living with my girlfriend for the last 4, sharing rent and utilities. Overall, we've both spent over €25,000 together, and after spending all this money, you're practically left with nothing and may be subject to looking for a new house at any moment.

The average rent for a one-bedroom apartment is between €300 and €400 at best; thus, I was thinking that taking a loan is as costly as paying rent per month, but after 15-20 years, you end up with a house. My main concerns are the following: First, if you're in a long-term relationship like myself, you can never be 100% sure that you'll be with that person in 20 or 30 years from now, which might prevent you from opting for a loan. Secondly, you need to be certain that the location or city of the property to be bought is convenient for future job offers and so on. Thirdly, because a loan is a many-year commitment, there's no guarantee that you'll be able to afford the monthly payment 15 years from now.

On top of that, finding the ideal house as a renter is almost impossible; there's a lack of housing, and rents are extremely expensive and unreasonable at the same time. We had a difficult time finding a house recently, and it's far from ideal. There is now a new government-funded loan program that is about to start, funding up to 75% of the loan interest-free while the rest is funded by private banks and is subject to a relatively low interest rate. This led me to think about taking a loan and purchasing an average two-bedroom apartment, but I have the concerns that I voiced earlier.
1160  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: What are you stacking up on? on: January 23, 2023, 08:32:35 PM
Obviously, my first option and most important goal is accumulating Bitcoin, but we're in the altcoin section now. Regarding altcoins now, I've started stacking up on BNB, FUN, and BTT. The two latter coins were distributed to me by Binance, and I've continued to acquire more through staking, simply because I have nothing to lose and you never know what these coins may be worth in the future. FUN looks a little more promising than the abandoned BTT. BNB, on the other hand, is always applicable due to Binance Smart Chain and, in my opinion, is capable of surpassing $800 in the upcoming year or two.

Moreover, I'm considering purchasing Litecoin, for no particular reason; it's not in the top 10 of Coinmarketcap, but it's the oldest altcoin in circulation. 
I agree, I mean I am collecting bitcoin as much as I can and that's out of the question, that's a given and I will give the answer that is based on altcoin section. I am trying to gather as much ETH as possible as well, it's not an easy task because ETH is expensive and I know I will never have 32 ETH all together, not only I do not have that much money all together but I also do  not like putting all of my money into just one thing neither, and that is why I do not put a chance on me ever having 32 ETH ever.

However, if we look at others, I also get some BNB as well, and I think that's quite good too, and some AVAX as well because I believe the team behind it means well, will they succeed? I do not know but they look like they are not shady and honest, so I am giving them a chance to provide proof of how good they could be.
Bitcoin is undoubtedly the first option for the majority of the forum members, since we're anticipating great returns in the upcoming years. Ethereum is a great alternative; however, I personally prefer BNB for the simple reason that it has great staking capabilities. There's a huge variety of vaults and smart contracts on platforms such as Beefy or even Binance's liquidity mining section. On top of that, Binance offers a cashback of up to 8% per transaction using their debit card; 8% is completely unrealistic due to the massive amount of BNB it requires you to own, but 3% requires 10 BNB, which is achievable. I know that it's not the greatest reason, but it accumulates since I use card payments a lot.
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