just for my own clarification (correct me if I am wrong, it is important to me)
in Counterparty, NXT, Mastercoin etc. you can create an asset, which has the character of an IOU and is just backed by the trust in the issuer. With Bistshares you have a collateral which is liable for the created BitUSD. Example Bitshare is worth 100 units and creates 33 bitusd - these 33 bitusd units are basically subtracted from the Bitshare? Is this the idea?
If the pegging mechanism works this is really really great.
Thats exactly what I was wondering. But according to that video its open market not pegging mechanism. Also, its not clear to me what happens with colateral in case of fall of btsx price. They claim noone can take money from you. If BitsharesX falls, the collateral is taken from the short side to compensate the longs for the fall of BitsharesX The shorts end up with less BitsharesX and the longs end up with more BitsharesX. I see thank you. So if it falls by more then 50% your longs are not covered? Yes, the way I understand it.. if it falls by more than 50% then your long position is released as you have lost all of your collateral. |
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just for my own clarification (correct me if I am wrong, it is important to me)
in Counterparty, NXT, Mastercoin etc. you can create an asset, which has the character of an IOU and is just backed by the trust in the issuer. With Bistshares you have a collateral which is liable for the created BitUSD. Example Bitshare is worth 100 units and creates 33 bitusd - these 33 bitusd units are basically subtracted from the Bitshare? Is this the idea?
If the pegging mechanism works this is really really great.
Thats exactly what I was wondering. But according to that video its open market not pegging mechanism. Also, its not clear to me what happens with colateral in case of fall of btsx price. They claim noone can take money from you. If BitsharesX falls, the collateral is taken from the short side to compensate the longs for the fall of BitsharesX The shorts end up with less BitsharesX and the longs end up with more BitsharesX. |
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I see, so its calling a crypto currency a bank.
Also, that table is quite inaccurate. Ripple transaction time is 5 seconds and it was first that allows users created assets. There is also no 10% inflation via mining in bitcoin.
Ripple require trust for gateways to operate, bitassets do not require trust as the price is determined transparently on a decentralized block chain via a free market. In Bitshares, consensus is determined by people going short or long on an asset, and collateral is held to make sure the proper value is retained as determined by the market. In Ripple, price is determined by trusting the gateway they are holding the correct amount of collateral. Also Ripple was 50% premined by a small corporation making the people within the company rich overnight... Meh. I think Stellar has a better distribution if you like the Ripple model, but I don't like that model because it requires users to trust the gateways that they aren't trading funny money. BitshareSX bitassets solves this problem. Ripple was 100% premined not 50%. BitshareX was also 100% premine. In Ripple price is determined by market not by trust  Also, what do you call funny money? Gold backed by GBI (one of largest gold trader in world) is to you funny money but asset backed by asset itself (by bitsharex to be precise) is not funny money? If you want to trade real assets you have to trust someone. Only in case where you are not trading anything there is no trust. So if you want to trade USD for any crypto you have to trust that those USD are actually in bank account. As I understood, in BitSharesX you are not trading any real money or real assets. That would for me be definition of funny money. Anyway, this is not about Ripple, its about BitSharesX. So can you please tell me how do market peg assets work? Yes.. It was 100% premined. What I meant was half of the premine was kept by the company, whereas in other cryptos (including Bitshares) it is more evenly distributed to end users. Honestly I'm not too privy on how ripple works, I need to do more research on it. Ripple labs keeping 50% of the premine is a no go for me, so I will assume you are correct. To each their own I guess, but I have no interest in making some company's board members rich. I did explain how BitsharesX bitassets work properly in my post though. Maybe this makes it more clear: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5BV55IrZi7g |
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There is no inflation in bitcoin if you know the total number that will be created. That is not inflation. Inflation by definition is infinite.
I see, so its not market pegged but trading token named as Apple with other people, basically free market? That is not same as market pegged, you depend of orders of other people rather then of market price of Apple.
Thnx for clarification.
No inflation by definition isn't infinite. If there is 10%+ inflation in Bitcoin per year, it means demand has to at least offset that to cover the inflation. No it's not like a token, anybody can issue an Apple asset on NXT or something but it won't track the price, it has no value. BitAssets track by consensus and use collateral to back up the position. If you don't believe the peg will hold don't buy BTSX, the buying pressure now is because people have seen the dry runs and are confident in the mechanism when it is released soon. (As I said I'm not expert I just understand how big they are if they work, I suggest you go to the forum to learn more.) Right. Because it's impossible for NXT or any other asset exchange to add in real time tracking, right? What sorcery does Bitshares X have to patch in a number reports from Yahoo or whatever the source is? This thing is pretty much NXT's asset exchange with a few extra added ribbons to it. I can create my own asset on Bitshares call "BitUsd", sell a million of that for... $1 million real USD and profit. You still don't understand bitassets |
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Is it live now? The columns need to be bigger or the text smaller... The numbers kind of blend together. |
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I see, so its calling a crypto currency a bank.
Also, that table is quite inaccurate. Ripple transaction time is 5 seconds and it was first that allows users created assets. There is also no 10% inflation via mining in bitcoin.
Ripple require trust for gateways to operate, bitassets do not require trust as the price is determined transparently on a decentralized block chain via a free market. In Bitshares, consensus is determined by people going short or long on an asset, and collateral is held to make sure the proper value is retained as determined by the market. In Ripple, price is determined by trusting the gateway they are holding the correct amount of collateral. Also Ripple was 50% premined by a small corporation making the people within the company rich overnight... Meh. I think Stellar has a better distribution if you like the Ripple model, but I don't like that model because it requires users to trust the gateways that they aren't trading funny money. BitshareSX bitassets solves this problem. |
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... Nxt fan bois annoy me. Complaining about Bitshares distribution, when Nxt had one of the worst distributions of all time. At least Bitshares fan bois don't attack other cryptos and call them inferior. I like both Nxt and Bitshares, it is really annoying to me to see all the infighting. I guess some people only care about their personal interests, but the sad thing is it is mostly Nxt people that attack other cryptocoin 2.0s. It makes me sick. They do the same to Ethereum... Who ever thinks that Bitshares is different then other new altcoins then he really need first some experience trading coins in the alt section.
Ya sense most new alt coins have bitassets.  |
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Re with the last 10k could you take a ball park guess 4 MB ~ 40 Mb ? Some where between 5 and 20 MB I'm guessing. that's both revolutionary and evolutionary. Yes, the mini block chain project is awesome. |
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I'm somewhat skeptical as Quark Coin accomplished the same thing, getting a few celebrities and rich fund types to throw their money in, but the capitalization bubble wasn't sustained due to a lack of subsequent buyers.
Quark failed because it takes more than an innovative PoW algorithm to make a successful coin. Furthermore, their distribution was whack... * Total of 247 million QRK will be mined in ~ 6 months, after that ~ 1 million QRK p.a. (~ 0.5% p.a inflation) It was great if you got in during the first 6 months, but it was doomed for failure after this first 6 months because investors coming in after that time period wouldn't touch it with a 10 foot pole because the distribution was unfair. |
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Wow and I just sold 25000 NXT of my 50k and bought in. When I first noticed BTSX I was for sure it was some weird pump and dump scheme. The name is a bit cheesy.
Then I read Bitshares Wiki to see what it is and it seems like a completely new thing. If I understand it correctly, it could be the next Wall Street with all these strange derivatives. I don't know how likely, but seems like as good of a place as anywhere to diversify in the crypto-space.
Definitely not a pump and dump, they have a lot of good ideas and projects planned. BitshareSX is only the first. I suggest getting into Protoshares to get in on the ground floor for future DACs. The BitsharesVote and BitsharesDNS snapshots are coming up soon. Soon = 5 hours, last block of BitShares PTS for 21 August 23:59:59 GMT https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=732434.0Haha, very soon!  |
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Bitcoin PoW is understood to be broken due to the technical knowledge to partake and the $capital costs to get involved. Even in developed countries, how many middle class people have enough $capital to pay a $60K monthly electrical bill, build a large factory in China and build three people to watch over the hardware?
Why is NXT's pure PoS not considered broken? Only way to forge realistic amounts is through acquiring millions of NXT and that costs six figures in $Fiat (which will become seven and eight figures if NXT capitalization increases 10 and 100 fold).
Maybe because mining and forging are not supposed to be a money making opportunity? They exist to secure the block chains, not as get rich quick schemes. They need to be somewhat profitable otherwise people wouldn't secure the block chains and the networks are less secure, but IMO you aren't supposed to be able to make a living doing so. Providing a small supplemental income is enough to keep the block chains secure I think. Sure, people with deep pockets may be able to, but even then it is only marginally profitable and they have to throw a lot of money at it to make a decent living. I think there are easier ways to make a living if you have that much money. Btw.. I am still bullish on Nxt |
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Wow and I just sold 25000 NXT of my 50k and bought in. When I first noticed BTSX I was for sure it was some weird pump and dump scheme. The name is a bit cheesy.
Then I read Bitshares Wiki to see what it is and it seems like a completely new thing. If I understand it correctly, it could be the next Wall Street with all these strange derivatives. I don't know how likely, but seems like as good of a place as anywhere to diversify in the crypto-space.
Definitely not a pump and dump, they have a lot of good ideas and projects planned. BitshareSX is only the first. I suggest getting into Protoshares to get in on the ground floor for future DACs. The BitsharesVote and BitsharesDNS snapshots are coming up soon. |
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Looks like there's <200 BTC worth of sell walls to take BTSX all the way to $50 million.
Nearly a $1 million 24 hour volume, the Chinese market BTSX/CNY certainly get's it. I'm sure most alt-coiners will only get what a big thing BitAssets are in a couple of days.
Glad to see one of the projects I have been suggesting to friends and family going on such a bull run. It makes me look like a genius. After most of them did not listen to me about Bitcoin, Litecoin, and now Bitshares.. maybe they will start to take me more seriously hahaahahaha.  It was so f easy to see Bitshares was destined for success IMO. Now I just need Swarm to do something and I will be 4 for 4. |
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premine - print 21 million paperwallets/private keys - hide/spread them all over the world - do something like geocaching
(at least something new, funny and healthy - and it`s mining back to the roots like digging for gold)
I like your idea. I guess it would hard to do for one person though, and transparently at that... You would need to trust everyone to place them in random areas and not cash them in theirselves. |
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So because you sold your PTS it == IPO. K, got it. He had a point.. There were other ways to get in rather than sending Bitcoins/Protoshares to the AGS fund. Just because you didn't hold onto your PTS it doesn't mean Bitshares was purely an IPO. Anyways.. The assumption that all IPO coins are a scam is a fallacy spread by people uneducated on the subject. Sure, some IPOs are certainly scams, but it doesn't mean all of them are. What people are doing is stereotyping when they make such statements. It's like when people say all Americans are idiots, or that all Rottweilers are vicious animals. When exactly did I state this? I sold it for much more than you can get now or that you will get in the future. The tittle here says it's an IPO and so do many others so the supporters are claiming this as well. Another funny thing in this thread is that the tittle isn't even spelled correctly and he's talking about smart people getting in. That wasn't the point. You are calling it an IPO when you could of mined Protoshares and just held onto them, instead you sold them. That way you would own part of BitshareSX, etcetera. Instead you sold your mined Protoshares and call Bitshares an IPO... It is kind of hypocritical because you could of mined and held Protoshares to get part of Bitshares DACs. Even though you sold PTS higher than it is now, I'd venture to say you would have made more in the long run by holding onto your PTS and taking part in the snapshots. BitshareSX is on a pretty sick uptrend at the moment. I guess comefromabove sold all of his BitshareSX/Protoshares like the pump and dumper he is. That is why he changed the title of this thread. I think the joke is on him though.. Once bit assets come out price is going through the roof IMO. Anyways.. Let's not bump this thread anymore, since comefrombabove changed the title to something completely different. Edit: He changed the title back to its original title... I guess he bought back in. |
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The reason is greed. No one wants to spend precious Bitcoins. The people that offer equity in their projects are raising millions. Those that don't, or their project is not apparently/directly possible to be monetized, are suffering to raise money.
It's not really that shocking to me.. It just makes sense. If you have a good idea that requires a lot of development you pretty much have to monetize it and offer equity to make it a reality.
That why I don't get all the hate for the newer ALT coins/app coins. You gotta do what you gotta do to get a good complicated idea developed. In a perfect world they would all use Bitcoin, but this is not a perfect world and they would never raise enough money. People don't generally like to work for free.
your right its greed. but to explain the hate for newer ALT coins is very simple.. their development is not complicated, doesnt require a team and it is even automated due to a couple websites that script out your coin for you with just a couple selection buttons.. its a script kiddies wet dream, definitely not worth investing into. you can usually spot the scammy ones by having two aliases. use one to send the dev team an idea that could be incorporated into their plan, and use another alias to talk about finances.. if they ignore the idea completely and dont even respond, yet are really quick to respond to a money grab, you can instantly see their motives and know which is more important priority for them (i done this many times to test businesses) You are referring to scam coins, I am referring to Alt coins. There is a big difference and people don't seem to be able to tell the difference. They lump them all together as all being scam coins. |
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I would like to hear some project managers and core devs. opinions on this issue.
This is something more than just dark-wallet. This issue affects everything from core projects, qt, armory, trezor, etc.
Take that into account.
The reason is greed. No one wants to spend precious Bitcoins. The people that offer equity in their projects are raising millions. Those that don't, or their project is not apparently/directly possible to be monetized, are suffering to raise money. It's not really that shocking to me.. It just makes sense. If you have a good idea that requires a lot of development you pretty much have to monetize it and offer equity to make it a reality. That why I don't get all the hate for the newer ALT coins/app coins. You gotta do what you gotta do to get a good complicated idea developed. In a perfect world they would all use Bitcoin, but this is not a perfect world and they would never raise enough money. People don't generally like to work for free. |
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the FIAT, or is there a crypto named after those?
I love me some good fiat ~CfA~ Oh OK. Thanks for the insider pro tip. I am investing my billions as I type. Hookers and blow are in my future. nah it makes sense only if u r already rich like me. similar to mining bitcoins and owning all the slaves who hype up ur network u know. they work for u and call it decentralized. this is pretty slick. in RL ppl arent that polite- they say fuck the system not 'the system to the moon'. one aspect why I love crypto. ~CfA~ I believe you.. I wasn't mocking you. I am reallocating my multi billion dollar portfolio now. |
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CH,
are you Jonathan Levin by any chance?
Never heard of him. I think you sound like someone I know of though, do you by chance keep getting banned from a poker forum? Anyways, let's agree to disagree on the last remaining difference... the ability of the government to 51% attack Bitcoin. To make it clear, I also think it is unlikely to happen, but I do feel like they have the ability if they chose to do so. nvr play poker. yeah, i think like most arguments in Bitcoin, it comes down to one's outlook on life. i've learned to be an optimist, altho hopefully not blind-fully so. perhaps i've been listening to too much Andreesen. btw, have you noticed? it's Rally Time. By the way, although I am very hard on Bitcoin and Litecoin, I still think they have a lot of life left in them. I compare their inevitable extinction to the extinction that gasoline is certain to face at some point... It will take a while, but it is certain to happen. All three have too many issues. That being said.. if you are investing and looking for profit, I believe there's still a lot of profit to be had investing in Bitcoin.. I have been recommending it most to friends and family. I consider everything else as high risk investments. Litecoin might even have some profit in it to ride the wave another few times, but I am certain it will die much sooner than Bitcoin due to the network effect not being as strong. Jeez.. Did I just start another debate?  Let's not please, I've been typing all of this on my iPad and my fingers hurt. The stupid spell checker is really annoying me to when it comes to correcting crypto currency terms. |
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the FIAT, or is there a crypto named after those?
I love me some good fiat ~CfA~ Oh OK. Thanks for the insider pro tip. I am investing my billions as I type. Hookers and blow are in my future. |
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