The FIAT, or is there a crypto named after those?

I thought you liked Nxt? Did you already dump it? 

What coin do you support now?

Never heard of him. I think you sound like someone I know of though, do you by chance keep getting banned from a poker forum?  

If so- I'll just leave that there, no need to elaborate.

Anyways, let's agree to disagree on the last remaining difference... the ability of the government to 51% attack Bitcoin. To make it clear, I also think it is unlikely to happen, but I do feel like they have the ability if they chose to do so.

How convenient.


I brought up that "personal shit" because it was applicable to the conversation. I know a lot more about Bitcoin than you would like to admit. My arguments are valid, it is not my fault your ignorance doesn't allow you to see that.

Actually I think it's less likely that Bitcoin would be hacked, than it is that it could be attacked from a known weakness such as a 51% attack. Just as it is more likely PoS is attacked by someone gaining 51% of the money supply than the protocol "get hacked."

I agree it is highly unlikely, just as it is unlikely someone will be able to successfully attack a PoS coin. This is the problem, with all your huffing and puffing, you can't admit this is unlikely to happen as well.

You are combining two different arguments, the ability for hackers to steal coins in hot wallets and being ignorant in that you don't think a large government has the ability to kill Bitcoin.

6 to 7 Billion huh? You obviously don't understand Bitcoin (mocking your hubris.) To guesstimate 100% of Bitcoin's market capitalization is sitting in hot wallets is a laughable statement.

Furthermore, I don't think you understand what an attacker could or couldn't do in the case of a 51% attack. You obviously don't understand Bitcoin (again mocking your hubris.) The incentive for a government or entity with deep pockets to kill Bitcoin would not to be to steal all the coins, they couldn't if they tried... even with 51% of the processing power. They could however perform a double spend attack and ruin the confidence in Bitcoin immediately causing the value to crash to pennies, among other various attacks.

The incentive is not to get rich by stealing Bitcoins, nor would that be the incentive for someone to attack a PoS coin in and of itself. The value of each will be ruined if either are successfully attacked, so getting rich by stealing the coins that are "begging to be stolen" would not be the incentive. The incentive for a government would be to stop possible money laundering, tax evasion, terrorist use, drug war reasons, kiddie porn, and secure their power of the money supply The FIAT system provides them with. The incentive for banksters should be obvious. Bitcoin et al is a disruptive technology, very well could replace them, kill their profits, and thus kill their lifestyle and well being of their families.

Those sound like possibilities to me, and again 1 billion dollars (hell double that, 2 Billion) is a drop in the bucket to them if they were to decide Bitcoin is a threat to the incentives described above. The only reason why they haven't yet is not because they can't, it is because they have do not think Bitcoin is a threat at this point in time or because they have decided they will be able to profit off of it much like the current system. If they do decide the former then Bitcoin, or any crypto currency, would be in grave danger. To deny otherwise at this point in time is foolish. I am not a big government guy or a capitalist as you would like to think (or have others believe,) but I am a realist and this is a real threat that crypto currencies face.


First of all, do you really think the use of the word 'gubmint' lends any credibility to your statements?  

They are not trying to block Bitcoin, they just want their cut. That is typical government and I don't see how it is any different from anything else that involves money. However, if they do determine Bitcoin is a threat in one way or another, then they will not hesitate to kill it. They will not do so by playing nice and making regulations to get their cut. They will straight up kill it under the guise of national security or some bullshit reason.


You contradict yourself with your last two quotes. In the first one the 'gubmints' are trying to block Bitcoin, but in this quote they are trying to embrace it and profit from it. You can't argue both for both sides, get off the fence. Earlier you were claiming they can't attack Bitcoin (which I disagree with), and now you are claiming that they don't want to attack Bitcoin (which I agree with... but that can change due to shifting dynamics.)

I do believe that a government or banksters could decide that Bitcoin is a threat due to the above described incentives to attack the network. Right now is not that time, Bitcoin is a small fish in a big ocean at the moment. However, the dynamics can change, opinions can change, politicians get voted in and out of office, and CEOs etcetera get replaced. They may not want to kill Bitcoin now, but if money laundering, tax evasion, terrorist adoption of cryptos, drug markets, losing their power with FIAT, and kiddy porn become a much bigger problem, then I think they will not hesitate to kill Bitcoin. In the bankster's case, when Bitcoin start affecting their bottom line too much they could choose to do the same.

There are something like 73 countries that have the money to kill Bitcoin if the number $1 billion for a successful 51% attack is somewhat accurate. You could double that number and there would be more or less the same amount of countries that have the ability to. It is again not a question of IF it can be done, but a question of if they want to or not.

It is a fact that it is possible any PoW coin can be destroyed, just as it is a fact and PoS coin can be destroyed. If someone has enough time, money, reason, and gives enough effort it can be done much easier than you would like to admit. Give me a billion dollars and I will show you.

I did learn a lesson. Never get a loan denominated in Bitcoins, as the value fluctuates wildly and it can lead to never being able to pay back the loan. Don't act like you know what is going on inside my head in regards to that, and talk out of your ass when you say "I didn't learn a lesson." Are you psychic?

I believed Bitcoin would rise in value. Ask anyone that knows me irl. I just didn't think it would rise in value as fast as it did. It went from $150 to $1200 in 4 months. I think just about everyone did not expect such a huge run up in price that quickly. That would have pretty much been best case scenario predictions in August. If it were so easy to tell that it would do that, then a lot more people would have bet huge... only a handful of people did that. Hindsight is 20/20.

Anyways.. enough about me. I mentioned your involvement with Hash Fast because it was applicable to the debate... poW opens people up to get scammed by ASIC manufacturers. It seems you want to talk about our personal issues, so how much did you get paid out of customer funds to shill for Hash Fast? How many free mining rigs did they give you which were paid for out of customer funds?

No, it would not be worth my time. I don't own any crypto currencies at the moment, and am an unbiased observer giving his honest opinion. I'm not sure you are quite so impartial, whether it is intentional or not. It definitely would not be worth the time, money, and effort just to prove you wrong. I am here discussing and debating crypto currencies because they fascinate me, I think they are generally a great idea, and I would like to see control of the money supply taken away from the government as they have proven themselves incompetent by printing money left and right.

"PoW has nothing to prove, PoS does"

More ignorance.. you do not know what will happen in the future, you can only speculate, and Bitcoin/PoW is still a relatively new technology. Windows XP has been out since 2001 and people are still discovering vulnerabilities. Even if more vulnerabilities aren't discovered, which is highly unlikely due to history and statistics, you are speculating on how ASIC mining will play out. My prediction is not so hunky dory as yours.

Both PoW and PoS technologies are unproven at this point.

It seems like you do believe that, I can tell, and you are certainly entitled to your own opinion. That isn't what I was talking about when referring to feigning ignorance. It is that you try to push your opinion on everyone else as if it is fact and ignore the fact that PoW has vulnerabilities also. You act as if it's impossible to attack a PoW coin, which is quite a stretch of the truth. Sure, it is unlikely, but it is far from impossible.

The same applies with PoS, it is unlikely someone would be able to attack it, but it is far from impossible. There are two sides to the debate, each side has valid arguments, but it is your reluctance to admit that your side of the debate has some holes in it that makes you ignorant (or feigning ignorance.) I can admit PoS has flaws, you seem to be having a hard time admitting that PoW has flaws as well.

By the way.. your offer of me to go root ghash.io or discus fish and 51% attack Bitcoin... I extend the same offer to you. Go attack a PoS coin using one of the known vulnerabilities and report back to me......

I agree with you guys that it should still be tested, as I very well could be wrong. Any good experiment should have some empirical evidence.

What I posted was just my hypothesis.

Cheers, no hard feelings here either. Good luck

Exactly, I agree and that's the point I am trying to make.


This isn't a debate, it is you feigning ignorance. I refuse to believe you are this stupid. Both PoW and PoS each have their flaws, and none is "better" or "worse" than the other. PoW is better than PoS in some areas, and PoS is better than PoW in some areas. It is a two way road, but you are acting as if it is a one way road.


Preorders are becoming a thing of the past, but that is only one way ASIC manufacturers and/or distributors are scamming their customers. They have moved on to doing it in a more upfront way by selling the mining equipment at a price that will never break even. It may not be a scam, in the sense of the true meaning of the word scam, but it is a dishonest shady business to say the least.

A lot of companies advertise in stock products only to delay those as well, so the preorder-type scams still exist, only in a different form.

It is "easier" to scam, yet no one has been able to do it yet. As market caps grow and the crypto currencies are more evenly distributed it will become even more unlikely that it will happen.


Name one PoS crypto currency that has been attacked through the same avenues that PoW evangelists claim to be so insecure. To my knowledge there is not a single one. There are only cases of services/people getting hacked which happens out of incompetence rather than PoS being insecure. PoW coins suffer from the same vulnerabilities that PoS coins have suffered thus far, both of which stem from incompetence. Not a flawed protocol.

There are a few very successful PoS system in place... Nxt, Bitshares, and Blackcoin... all of which have market caps above 4.7 million dollars.

I think what you mean are there are no invulnerable PoS implementations in place today. The same could be same for PoW implementations though, which is where you are wrong in claiming PoW is so much better than PoS. They both have vulnerabilities. Bitcoin has a long list of known vulnerabilities as well: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Weaknesses


You have somewhat of a point here, however to build a mining farm would be the most inefficient way of attacking the Bitcoin network. It can be done many other ways that would be cheaper. Rooting a large mining pool would probably be the cheapest way, and you could pay someone to do that for much cheaper than you could buy 51% of the available currency in the larger PoS crypto currencies.

Along with that possible avenue, as I mentioned, there are many other avenues you could take: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Weaknesses

BOTH PoW and PoS are unproven thus far. PoW is not fully played out yet, as ASICs were only available a year and a half ago. It is my belief that all the profit of PoW mining will be sucked out by ASIC manufacturers and people with deep pockets, that the Bitcoin network will become more and more centralized as time goes on. With this centralization can lead to many bad things, such as the small mining conglomerate deciding they want to be paid more for transaction fees or reversing a transaction when they are hacked at some point in time. That is one of the things PoS is getting a lot of heat for lately, but it could just as easily happen to Bitcoin (or other PoW coins), especially as mining becomes more centralized.

It could happen today if Ghash.io or discus fish are rooted. Someone with 30% of Bitcoin's hash rate has something like a 60% chance of being able to reverse a transaction with only 1 confirmation. IT is actually quite scary how easily a 51% attack could be performed, and even though it is called a 51% attack... you don't need anywhere close to 51% of the network's computing power to do it. See page 10: https://bitcoil.co.il/Doublespend.pdf

I wrote this a long time ago.. it is a cover song to the tune of Coolio's Gangsters Paradise. I am hoping maybe Zhou Thonged will record it one day.

I guess it could double as poetry as well, although it was meant to be a song.

You should do a better job of pointing out Digishield and the road map in the OP of your coin's thread. A lot of people (me including) will judge a crypto currency by the content of the OP in their announcement thread, and will immediately dismiss it if it looks like a copy and paste coin. Digishield, and your business plan, was not sufficiently articulated in your OP, otherwise I may of never come into this thread and said what I did.

I will now retract my statements ITT. Even still, competition is fierce and even though you do have some slight innovation, I am not sure it is enough for Digibyte to survive in the long run. As you say however, only time will tell.

I wish you a sincere good luck to you and your coin.

It's not ridiculous, it's just a fact.

PoW opens people up to getting scammed by mining hardware manufacturers because they (or eventually with all PoW algos) will need to buy specialized hardware to compete with other miners.

PoS solves this problem as it doesn't require mining hardware in the first place.

Drugs are a whole different conversation. As long as money exists (FIAT, PoW, or PoS), people will use it to buy drugs. However, crypto currencies can be made to not require mining hardware by using PoW alternatives, which solves the problem of people getting scammed by shady hardware manufacturers.

I am all for the improving crypto currencies because they align with my libertarian beliefs, and I feel like PoS is a step in the right direction because it solves a lot of issues with PoW coins. Sure, it is not perfect, but it I feel it is a step in the right direction nonetheless.

You should at least pay them back what Hash Fast paid you to shill for them IMO, but I guess that is up to you. That is what I would do personally..

Anyways... as I said, I am paying my debt and always had good intentions. Soon I will be cleared of my wrong doings and I know that will happen as soon as financially possible. You can call me a scammer if you like, but scammers do not repay debts- they take the money and run. I guess I am done with this conversation, I didn't mean to derail the thread I apologize, but it was applicable to the conversation.

You have to admit that ASIC scams are another bad thing about PoW. So many people have been scammed because of ASICs and so many people have lost money due to buying unprofitable mining equipment. Many more will lose money due to both of those in the future. This is just another reason why PoS is better than PoW in my opinion. ASIC mining opens up the mining community to scams and unprofitable investments disguised as money making opportunities. Just because people are still buying unprofitable mining equipment does not mean that it is a sustainable practice, it just means that these people haven't learned their lesson yet. I'd venture to say these people will learn eventually that ASIC investing is a losing proposition sooner rather than later. When everyone realizes this PoW mining will become centralized to people with deep pockets and ASIC manufacturers, which will have many negative consequences.

Think of me what you will, but I am paying off the debt and could care less what people think of me because of it. I would love to pay off the debt that I owe RIGHT NOW, but unfortunately that isn't financially possible for me. I cant make money appear out of thin air. It was an honest mistake which was balooned by the Bitcoin price hike late last year when it went from $150 to $1200+, and I paid off a lot of my debt when Bitcoin was valued above $800... even $1000 plus dollars. If I would of waited until now for the value to crash, I would have all my debt paid off and some savings as well.

You can say what you want about your Hash Fast situation, but words are easier to come by than money, and I feel like what I am doing... paying people back means a lot more than offering an apology. Sure, you don't owe those people anything, but all you are doing is offering an apology.. it seems pretty weak considering you were the biggest cheer leader for one of the biggest ASIC scams thus far. People lost millions and millions of dollars with Hash Fast, whereas in my situation I only owe people about 5.5 Bitcoins since I have repaid most of the debt. Hash Fast went bankrupt and probably no one is getting paid back.. if they do it will be pennies on the dollar. I am paying people back in full. I think your apologies about the Hash Fast situation would mean a lot more if you actually tried to help any of the victims out a little bit- instead you do nothing but offer an apology and point fingers.

Anyways... thanks for reminding me I needed to update people about my debts and how I am coming along with them. I can assure you everyone will be paid back as soon as possible. You can say what you will about it, but I know that in my heart I meant no wrong, and I am paying everyone back as soon as I can. I stopped caring what people think about me a long time ago when Smoothie was constantly harassing me about this all over every forums on the internet.

Hi,

I never came to post in here because I never saw the need to. This is inbetween me and rudrigorc2 and no one else. Although other people are trying to make it their business (Smoothie), it is certainly none of their business. I knew that I was actively trying to pay off this debt, and would do so as soon as possible, so I did not see the need to come here and update the world about it. I have been updating rudrigorc2, the only person involved in this matter other than myself, via PM and I thought that was sufficient.

I have since paid about 31.5 Bitcoins back out of the 32 Bitcoins owed. You can see the payment address here to follow along with my progress and see that I am paying back my debt... slowly but surely.

Payment address: https://blockchain.info/address/1MenQ9tJiGHaNwTiFJJu2g9F2qpseWzPMu

Bitcoin has gone up a lot in value, and I paid off a lot of the loan when Bitcoins were worth $800+, a lot of the loan was paid back when Bitcoin was $1000+. It makes me sick to think I could of waited for the Bitcoin price to crash and I would of had enough money to cover all of my debts and still have some Bitcoin savings. However, it could of just as easily skyrocketed even more leaving me with the impossible task of paying off a lot of debt, so I suppose I am happy with my decision there.

That said it is 100% my fault and I take full responsibility for it. Happily, I only have about .5 Bitcoins to go until this debt is paid in full.

I hope everyone can see that I am making an effort to pay off this debt, that I am a man of my word, and that I am not a scammer. Let this be a lesson to everyone.. to never get a loan denominated in Bitcoins because the value can fluctuate wildly making it near impossible to pay off the loan.

Rudrigorc2, thanks for your patience in this matter.

Hi, its been a while but I thought I would update those involved in this.

I have two debts in the cryptocoin community.

#1 - A 30 Bitcoin loan in which I worked out a deal with rudrigorc2 to only owe 32 Bitcoins for. I have since paid about 31.5 Bitcoins back out of the 32 Bitcoins owed. You can see the payment address here to follow along with my progress and see that I am paying back my debt... slowly but surely:

Payment address: https://blockchain.info/address/1MenQ9tJiGHaNwTiFJJu2g9F2qpseWzPMu
Original loan thread: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=285592.0

Since the first debt was a loan, and it was done before I started the bounty competition, I thought it was the right thing to do to pay off the loan before paying off this bounty competition. Bitcoin has gone up a lot in value, and I paid off a lot of the loan when Bitcoins were worth $800+, a lot of the loan was paid back when Bitcoin was $1000+. It makes me sick to think I could of waited for the Bitcoin price to crash and I would of had enough money to cover all of my debts and still have some Bitcoin savings. However, it could of just as easily skyrocketed even more leaving me with the impossible task of paying off a lot of debt, so I suppose I am happy with my decision there.

#2 the design a physical Bitcoin bounty debt.

As you can tell I am making headway with my debt, and as soon as I am able I will pay off this debt as well. I am not making a lot of money nowadays, but I am a man of my word and I will get it paid off as soon as I can.

Thanks for your patience.

Hi, its been a while but I thought I would update those involved in this.

I have two debts in the cryptocoin community.

#1 - A 30 Bitcoin loan in which I worked out a deal with rudrigorc2 to only owe 32 Bitcoins for. I have since paid about 31.5 Bitcoins back out of the 32 Bitcoins owed. You can see the payment address here to follow along with my progress and see that I am paying back my debt... slowly but surely:

Payment address: https://blockchain.info/address/1MenQ9tJiGHaNwTiFJJu2g9F2qpseWzPMu
Original loan thread: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=285592.0

Since the first debt was a loan, and it was done before I started the bounty competition, I thought it was the right thing to do to pay off the loan before paying off this bounty competition. Bitcoin has gone up a lot in value, and I paid off a lot of the loan when Bitcoins were worth $800+, a lot of the loan was paid back when Bitcoin was $1000+. It makes me sick to think I could of waited for the Bitcoin price to crash and I would of had enough money to cover all of my debts and still have some Bitcoin savings. However, it could of just as easily skyrocketed even more leaving me with the impossible task of paying off a lot of debt, so I suppose I am happy with my decision there.

#2 the design a physical Bitcoin bounty debt.

As you can tell I am making headway with my debt, and as soon as I am able I will pay off this debt as well. I am not making a lot of money nowadays, but I am a man of my word and I will get it paid off as soon as I can.

Thanks for your patience.

Once again you fail at reading comprehension, go back and read my last post.

Nice try bro, but I actually pay my debts in this community. Scammers don't repay their debts, therefore I am not a scammer. I have two debts which I am actively paying off. The first is a 30 Bitcoin loan that I owed 32 Bitcoins for, as of a few days ago I have paid 31.5 Bitcoin of the 32 Bitcoins owed. If you don't believe me, here is evidence on the block chain I am actively paying off that debt: https://blockchain.info/address/1MenQ9tJiGHaNwTiFJJu2g9F2qpseWzPMu

After I pay off that debt, I will be paying off the bounty debt next, and will be free and clear of all debt owed in the cryptocoin community. You see.. I am a man of my word and am in the process of paying my debts in the community. There are many people that can vouch for me that I am a trustworthy person, I have done a lot of honest business with happy customers and/or sellers.

Tell me, when will you be paying back Hash Fast customers that you duped into buying hardware from a scam company that never delivered? The only recourse you seem to be providing is an apology. I've provided both an apology AND I am paying people back... I've put in a lot more effort than you have to right my wrongs.

Furthermore (more in line with the topic of conversation), tell me how your ASIC investments have gone for you thus far. Minus the free mining rigs you got from HashFast for sending customers to their scam?