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I have successfully sold a few BTC usng Paypal to highly trusted members (100+ trades in a long timespan) on Localbitcoins without any chargebacks so far, but yes, it is an extremely dangerous thing to do. You have to be especially wary of people who offer more than the current market value of BTC.
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Count me in if there's still a slot!
Post count: 325
BTC adress: 1JDNareT7T3DYQjp2L5oKHpQ9wRaDMuZ7p
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I believe it's pretty unanimous and you should go forward with this.
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I click "send" (near my MSC balance), then I verify the address, fulfill Amount, Fee, and To, and click "Prepare". It says: "Not enough bitcoin funds on addresses" which is false (I should have enough bitcoins to cover the fee, right?)
here the same...  Another guy said something about needing 0,015 BTC in his account in order to send MSC, I don't really know anything about how it works though. Either way the MSC address is closed or in the process of being closed for donations, so even if you manage to send your transaction you'll just get it returned. nick.lambert 3:37 PM (21 minutes ago) The crowd sale is now closed to MSC, still open for BTC @ 1KHfLixa2idRnZXMUfEisBati1vpywaH6E - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Nick Lambert www.maidsafe.net Twitter: @maidsafe Might be time to try cash out of MSC, but I'd wait for David Irvine's official response that he posted about first.. Still in fast mode so forgive typo's and grammar Well what a morning! I cannot think of any other with so much drama and excitement. We started a little late as we had to wait on a certain block appearing on the blockchain to start the whole thing off. That was bad enough. Then we got the block and pushed go on the websites. We were all in the office ready to get involved and as soon as the site showed up some got in, others were stunned at the immediate influx of bitcoins. It was incredible, I had to go home to transfer mine, but was distracted for ages looking at the screen and wondering how all these people knew and how much belief there was. This seemed to hit home more than all the praise and good comments we get on line. This was peoples total belief and right there in front of me, surreal and very humbling. We then seen the Mastercoin blockchain explode and this will initially amazing, then it was very fast. A mastercoin block explorer site showed the sale as sold out and that was then delight into shock. This was due to the fact MSC holders just send to an issue address and MSAFE are automatically returned. BTC hodler though had to send to a BTC address where they are collected in the background and manually xferred to MSAFE. I was in shock, all those BTC inputs had not been processed, we are all shut out (all in the office to). That was not great. I then was straight on to the Master protocol guys (also all nighter for them) and said is this all true, have we sold out in a couple of hours? We had not, in fact it was less than 50% (Still a huge amount). Then I was outside thinking and thinking, what is happening this is too fast, the MSC holders are at great advantage and BTC supporters are going to be disadvantaged a lot. We cannot type quickly enough for this to even out. At this rate no BTC person will get in and they will miss out. We never seen this level of support coming. I quite quickly decided that we would use all of the MSC loan fund we had been given for the sale and buy all the remaining MSAFE. Rather than manually doing a few steps in the background we would simply transfer the MSAFE to BTC holder on confirmation of any deposit. This removed a few steps. We debated, is this fair, is everyone included etc. and realised, what about the bonus, the 40% sliding bonus for everyone, we cannot manually calculate that, it would be a nightmare. Then it came together, we buy all remaining MSAFE with the loan fund and everyone gets the bonus, regardless of when they get in. Then we are all in the same boat, the faster MSC people and the BTC people. It means we raise less, but more importantly for us it means the system level out and we are all on the same playing field. People know me and me search for equilibrium the whole time. This is what we have done, it reduces the back office steps, ensures BTC backers are looked after and not squeezed out. MSC backers got in at almost equal footing as BTC (almost 50% / 50%) and we all win. The BTC goes ahead and the MSC people got in fast and made their purchase. This is now amazing as BTC is pushing along nicely and people can be assured the panic is over and the sale is as fair as it can be. Many would argue MSC is not 50% of the coin base etc. but I think none of us realised how fast and furious this sale would be. It is unbelievable. It means SAFE can go on strongly now, we can fund core dev, create Builders (the 10% dev pool part is unlikely to be allocated, instead the network will allocate these safecoin to Builders who produce apps people use etc.). The developer pods across the world who will compete with MaidSafe on core dev can be established and the network seeded. This is a pivotal moment for us all. I hope all of you were as taken aback as we were, but not as shocked at trying to figure out a mechanism to include everyone. So please bitcoin backers, take comfort, your orders are being processed and will be fine now. We did panic with the false reporting of a site etc. but it was a good warning, we need to make sure everyone is equally treated and looked after. So now we all get to become involved, we all get the ~40% bonus and many many more people and supporters are part of this project. Thanks everyone and sorry for the frantic start, I hope it is calmer now and continues on it's strong footing. We will publish the number of MSAFE remaining on safecoin.io and you will see this one the blockchain in our backers holding account (address to be published) on the blockchain. This will be simpler now and I must say again thanks to the Master Protocol team, they were just amazing and Craig Sellars in particular is a guy you want beside you when things move at this speed. So BTC all the way now, until we post the sale is over on safecoin.io, at that time any BTC will be refunded back to the sending address.
Thanks again everyone, it's a pleasure to be part of this community, I cannot wait to get back to work though and get the network up and testnet 1 running. David Irvine Ok so from here I infer that all of us who sent BTC today are still in and we'll eventually get our SAFEs, right? Or am I missing something? |
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I'm quite impessed that such high ROIs are possible in the US housing market. In most places of Europe you would be happy to get a clean 6-7%, and that's counting on the good faith of your tenants (laws tend to bend very much in their favour and evictions are complicated, slow and costly)
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Things look pretty bad: http://www.coindesk.com/neo-bee-ceo-breaks-silence-alleged-bitcoin-fraud/Danny Brewster, CEO of Cyprus-based bitcoin company Neo & Bee, has broken his silence, taking to reddit to address some of the rumours that have been circulating about him of late. Posting on the forum as ‘cryptocyprus’, the British-born entrepreneur said the suggestion he has committed fraud is his “greatest concern” at the moment. Earlier this month, Cyprus Mail reported that two customers paid Brewster €15,000 and €20,000 for bitcoins, which they never received. Further allegations then started flying, claiming Brewster had left Cyprus and defrauded investors. Brewster took to the Bitcoin Talk forum to defend himself and admitted he was out of the country, but stressed that he was away on business. In his reddit post, He goes on to explain that he sold bitcoins to a number of people prior to Neo & Bee opening to the public, with four of these people requesting that he hold their bitcoins until they provide him a wallet address to send them to. “Sorry to disappoint those that believe the tales that I simply took them…. The keys are still stored on paper. The total sales to these 4 people amounts to 75.29270138 BTC which were purchased for a combined total of €35,213.57 so I have no idea where the values reported in the media have been derived from,” Brewster’s reddit post continues. It goes on to say: “I have not received one single request from the individuals who bought the bitcoins from me to send the coins to an address they provided. With one exception a request was made but that was received from the individual that introduced one of the buyers to me, they requested for me to transfer the coins to his Bitstamp account. I didn’t send the coins to his address as he was not the person that I had the agreement with. One of these people went directly to the police following rumors that I had fled the country.” Brewster claims he has been trying to contact the Criminal Investigation Department of the Cypriot Police for days via both phone and email, but they have not responded. He goes on to explain why he did not return to Cyprus immediately following the issuance of an arrest warrant: 1. I have a family funeral to attend. 2. The whole situation can be resolved without me doing so. 3. The manner in which the investigations are being carried out are concerning, the police haven’t made an attempt to contact me despite numerous personal requests for them to do so. Brewster suggests that the four customers provide their wallet addresses to the police, who can then forward this information to him. He has instructed a lawyer in Cyprus to facilitate this process. Personal circumstances Brewster’s reddit post, titled ‘The full picture from Danny Brewster’, continues by explaining a few facts about his personal circumstances. It claims he had enough bitcoins in Mt. Gox to pay back all of Neo & Bee’s creditors in full, but now that the exchange has closed down, he does not have access to any of these funds. He also confirms he bought a Bentley in December, which is still in Cyprus. He says he had planned to sell the car this summer, reinvesting the profit into Neo & Bee. Now he will sell the car and put the money towards satisfying the company’s creditors. “I am concentrating first and foremost on resolving the issues with Cypriot police including my planned return to Cyprus. Only then I will concentrate all of my time on resolving everything surrounding Neo and Bee,” his post concludes. |
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Will this project make twice as much us dollars if the price of bitcoin doubles? Because that's what you'll need to do if the statement in your title is correct.
With this kind of ventures you have to forget about Bitcoin valuation as it is just an investment vehicle. It is a business thought for the fiat world and returns will be in fiat (maybe converted to BTC at the time of payment). You have to decide if you would rather hold the BTC expecting a higher return than the investment in the proposed timeframe. Subject: "Looking for investment of ~2500 BTC for music festival, return = ~150,000" Sure bitcoin price matters, since OP is "investing" bitcoin into fiat, and then converting fiat profits (sorry if you just sprayed your keyboard with coffee) into bitcoin. If, at the time of repayment (moar lulz, sorry) bitcoin price has doubled, OP would need double the fiat to cover it. I'm amazed that you read OP's business proposal, concluded that it is sound, and missed this glaring blunder. .. If I compare this to the projects some people have been throwing tons of cash into lately which hardly had any business plan at all or they lacked basic financials (like NEO-BEE recently)...
NeoBee was a bag of dicks. This is a cheaper bag of dicks, but the dicks it contains are just as suckulent and tasty. Do.not.want. Forget about the subject (I agree it's a bit misleading). The business plan is calculated in $ and BTC isn't mentioned anywhere. Bitcoin would be no more than an investment vehicle for a fiat-world business. This said, I'm not trying to promote anything here. Drew asked me to have a look at his plan and to give my opinion and I did just that. I'm not going to invest myself as I don't have that amount of idle cash and anyone considering to do so would be a fool if he didn't review the plan him/herself before making a decision. I'm sure there are risks involved as in any business but there are also cases of success. In brief: do your own research instead of bashing someone without looking at what he has to offer |
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I have to admit that as probably many others I had already written off this venture as a complete loss and I only returned to the thread recently out of curiosity. I am gladly surprised with all that has been going on as it's nice to see that my 3200 shares might have some value after all  |
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I have been in touch with Drew the last days and he has sent me his business plan. After having looked at it I can say it is very professionally presented, thorough and ambitious but feasible nevertheless. If I compare this to the projects some people have been throwing tons of cash into lately which hardly had any business plan at all or they lacked basic financials (like NEO-BEE recently), I think it's one of the most serious offerings here on Bitcointalk. The guys have experience organizing music festivals (have a look at the Lunar Massive videos on Youtube or their Facebook page) and I agree with Drew in that there is potential in this market.
This said, of course it's not for everyone (in fact I told Drew that Bitcointalk is probably not the best place to come at this moment looking for funding given the recent events). The organizers have their reasons to not want to do an IPO as such but rather limit the offering to a reduced number of investors which of course sets a higher share price. So if you're in a position to invest a larger chunk of money I would say: drop a line to Drew, sign the NDA and have a look at his plan, then do your research and then make your own decision.
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I have been in touch with Drew the last days and he has sent me his business plan. After having looked at it I can say it is very professionally presented, thorough and ambitious but feasible nevertheless. If I compare this to the projects some people have been throwing tons of cash into lately which hardly had any business plan at all or they lacked basic financials (like NEO-BEE recently), I think it's one of the most serious offerings here on Bitcointalk. The guys have experience organizing music festivals (have a look at the Lunar Massive videos on Youtube or their Facebook page) and I agree with Drew in that there is potential in this market.
This said, of course it's not for everyone (in fact I told Drew that Bitcointalk is probably not the best place to come at this moment looking for funding given the recent events). The organizers have their reasons to not want to do an IPO as such but rather limit the offering to a reduced number of investors which of course sets a higher share price. So if you're in a position to invest a larger chunk of money I would say: drop a line to Drew, sign the NDA and have a look at his plan, then do your research and then make your own decision.
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Will this project make twice as much us dollars if the price of bitcoin doubles? Because that's what you'll need to do if the statement in your title is correct.
With this kind of ventures you have to forget about Bitcoin valuation as it is just an investment vehicle. It is a business thought for the fiat world and returns will be in fiat (maybe converted to BTC at the time of payment). You have to decide if you would rather hold the BTC expecting a higher return than the investment in the proposed timeframe. |
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I have been in touch with Drew the last days and he has sent me his business plan. After having looked at it I can say it is very professionally presented, thorough and ambitious but feasible nevertheless. If I compare this to the projects some people have been throwing tons of cash into lately which hardly had any business plan at all or they lacked basic financials (like NEO-BEE recently), I think it's one of the most serious offerings here on Bitcointalk. The guys have experience organizing music festivals (have a look at the Lunar Massive videos on Youtube or their Facebook page) and I agree with Drew in that there is potential in this market.
This said, of course it's not for everyone (in fact I told Drew that Bitcointalk is probably not the best place to come at this moment looking for funding given the recent events). The organizers have their reasons to not want to do an IPO as such but rather limit the offering to a reduced number of investors which of course sets a higher share price. So if you're in a position to invest a larger chunk of money I would say: drop a line to Drew, sign the NDA and have a look at his plan, then do your research and then make your own decision.
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Crypto-Trade is already set up and running with our shares.
EDIT - a small number of our shares
So who are these lucky people who have had their shares transferred? On what basis is it decided who goes first? |
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Just doubled my number of shares by spending 30 bucks equivalent.
To The MOOOON !!!!
I'd rather spend that amount on a nice dinner... |
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Thankfully we don't have a hugely difficult time finding quality properties.
Our 13% threshold is low enough that we hit quite a few candidate properties every time we search. Right now there are a few properties that are 13% or over in our desired neighborhoods. There are also a few flip candidates that would be great for returns.
The big thing is fundraising enough money to get enough properties to build enough monthly cashflow so we can try to lever via a local lender. This is the goal and if we can do it then we'll see exponential growth in the fund. If we don't, we'll trudge along at 13%-20% APY on the properties we have. Not ideal but not bad at all considering how terrible the bitcoin & bitcoin stock market has been the past 2-3 months.
Can you explain how you would get exponent growth if you have a local lender? I don't follow. I think he means leverage. You take a loan for which you pay a low interest and you obtain a higher return. Eventually you pay off that loan and then the return on your initial investment has grown exponentially. |
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Risk...
Shareholders make up 30% of the company and after the first year get 30% of the net profits. That's not a huge return being that the company is very small right now. It's a long play, and the people who invest in Branny now may make out well in the future. (Assuming Branny continues to do his best for the company and the shareholders and not turn into someone who abandons the project like so many others have.) Though one has to worry about legal encroachment with these things. (With everything Bitcoin related)
Also, I don't think Branny keeping funds in Bitcoin is a mistake. Sure, the price is collapsing but if it rose the argument would go the other way. Why weren't the funds kept in Bitcoin? Realistically, we should be behind Bitcoin and be assured that its value will continue to rise. Its value will rise again, it's just a matter of getting over this China Bank policy rumor fiasco. Too many speculators laying in wait for the bubble to grow again, but not wanting to be in the crash. I think we're near a bottom unless the PBOC announces stricter controls. Then the market will react poorly, however it won't be able to get much lower and then start a gradual rise. The rest of the world continues using it, demand will continue to grow.
I invest in RENT and continue to buy shares. I intend to hold them as long as possible.
The way I see it, speculation should be taken out of the equation as much as possible. This is an investment in the real world and Bitcoin is just a vehicle to enable the investment. I know it is not possible to segregate completely this risk but focus should be set on running a real estate business, not on when BTC price will rise or fall. Note: I'm not criticizing Branny in any way, I just find it unfortunate that Havelock doesn't allow immediate releases to mitigate this risk |
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I won't enter into whether he's bullshitting (scamming) or not, but one thing is clear: NEO is dead. No liquidity (for whatever reasons) and the CEO jumping ship.
I think I must have a guardian angel somewhere as I managed to get out of it just an hour before trading halted for a 20% loss.
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Good work! There's only one thing I don't like very much: having so many reserves in BTC (as I believe they must have lost a lot from their original value). Is there a reason you didn't convert them to fiat right away?
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Well it seems like Prendergast123 has been logging on to his account recently, but he never bothered to comment on the matter.
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I'm spending some time in Argentina and I'm willing to trade some local goods for BTC if anyone is interested. I think especially leather goods/crafts are a good deal compared to European/US prices. Other possibilities are:
- Yerba mate
- Beef (very cheap and good quality although here we would be talking some more serious business)
- Dulce de leche
PM me if you think we can do some business
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