1. You broke my local rules "no making it personal"  I bet nothing gets done about it.

2. You can't stop stalking me

3. It is foolish to view this as a riddle. It is posing a sensible dilemma that one faces when they notice false allegations with no grounding referring to  themselves or actually even about others. It seems to me that not correcting false information in a thread is sub optimal and irresponsible. I think calling for evidence to be provided to substantiate their claim or else for the claim retracted is reasonable and does fall within the natural flow.

As ever I simply seek to drill down and establish some clear rules on what is considered off topic and irrelevant to the degree it crosses the threshold of deletion by mods.

Local rules - No contributors to my fanzine thread here  https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5088527.0 can post here
so if you posted there already (not including myself) then you are not permitted to post here certainly no qwk either. Also no direct examples or making it personal or I will insist on deletion. I would have previously welcomed debate by any person but since my reasonable requests not to make it personal before were ignored then I have no choice.

This one is VERY important


Opinions voiced that are clearly disingenuous, demonstrate double standards or flawed reasoning.


This is similar to the precedents one although not exactly the same so requires a separate thread to avoid confusion.

Say you stumble on to a thread debating certain actions to be taken on the basis of certain prior instances of behaviour. You start to read through and you notice that a person is advocating actions that are completely contradictory to his prior reactions on an identical matter? or perhaps is advocating/suggesting punishment for things they have done themselves and feel it was okay in their case.

I mean surely for the novice reader or any reader that wants the full picture? Sometimes people just give out opinions without substantiating them at all. If you come to a thread and the 10 people there are all advocating a certain action be taken then you may be persuaded they are correct just through force of numbers and their consensus.

I mean if you are able to demonstrate that these people are clearly demonstrating double standards and that their comments should be viewed in that context then you are assisting the optimal solution. So the reader says to himself hang on a moment perhaps I should withhold my judgement until I do a bit more research here and see if these actions they are all suggesting are fair and consistent and appropriate in this instance.

 Also now that I am aware that these members are demonstrating either clear double standards or flawed reasoning then I must be wary of taking anything they say at face value.  I mean surely it is the responsibility of all members to highlight double standards and flawed reasoning when it is clearly a very similar/identical and relevant scenario being discussed?

It seems like it is hiding relevant information not to bring this to light. The people that are demonstrating clear double standards/flawed reasoning then have the opportunity to expand or explain if they have been misunderstood or have something new or as yet unmentioned to present that will demonstrate they appear to be exhibiting double standards /flawed reasoning but are actually not guilty of that at all. Perhaps they  did not reveal some information that all readers should be privy to for them to reach the optimal solution. Once that is revealed then again the debate is more likely to reach the optimal outcome.

Again this being called off topic and irrelevant seems counter productive for a debate that intends to reach the optimal solution

Local rules - No contributors to my fanzine thread here  https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5088527.0 can post here
so if you posted there already (not including myself) then you are not permitted to post here certainly no qwk either. Also no direct examples or making it personal or I will insist on deletion. I would have previously welcomed debate by any person but since my reasonable requests not to make it personal before were ignored then I have no choice.


So this is another example of where the permitted flow seems flawed if you want to stand a chance of reaching the optimal solution. Surely one must be permitted to bring all information that is relevant to the discussion. I mean how will you have  a chance at reaching the optimal outcome/solution if some pertinent information is held back?

Example  - Say we are discussing or debating what should be done about a persons actions in terms of punishment or reward depending on if it is negative or positive actions. Then precedents set in similar or identical situations should be used to determine a fair and consistent behaviour towards persons whom demonstrate these positive or negative actions?  but these are apparently off topic and not allowed? this seems counter productive?

Of course the precedents must be for very similar or identical scenarios to be relevant and on topic but why would they not be permitted as natural flow?

Local rules - No contributors to my fanzine thread here  https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5088527.0 can post here
so if you posted there already (not including myself) then you are not permitted to post here certainly no qwk either. Also no direct examples or making it personal or I will insist on deletion. I would have previously welcomed debate by any person but since my reasonable requests not to make it personal before were ignored then I have no choice.


If you find a thread where someone has made a false accusation about you, then apparently you are not allowed to request they present evidence to substantiate this claim because it can be seen as off topic?  I notice a great proportion of deleted posts seem to look just like legitimate truthful defences against false accusations or out right lies. I mean even in your own thread where you are the OP -- if someone comes in and makes a false accusation and it devolves into an argument you yourself can be deleted for going off topic?

What can be done?  You just have to let it seem like a legit claim and say nothing?

Should you not be able to request evidence or it seems you are fucked, and also supply observable evidence of your own to demonstrate their untrustworthy nature to further destroy their credibility?

If you call them out and the thread starts to go off topic you get reported and deleted?

I mean you can not report them for being off topic if they accuse you of being guilty of something that is being discussed in the OP. You can not report them for false accusations because  the mod has no way to know if it is true.

It seems like a loop hole that can be exploited quite nicely to get a person in a lot of trouble.  

I think people that make false allegations repeatedly without evidence to substantiate should be the ones in trouble not those defending themselves.

I do not think you suchmoon can bring these points up to prevent QS when you enable and support people who are proven liars, scam pushers, sock puppet sig spammers, probable extortionists who got busted and trust abusers on to DT directly? Actually you support/include ALL of them onto DT.

Thanks for again demonstrating clear double standards when it suits you, what an excellent member you are.

This post is highly relevant and on topic because it demonstrates that a counter argument and criticism to quicksellers application is invalid/ disingenuous  coming from this member suchmoon,  the readers of this thread must understand that suchmoons motives for denying QS are not because he wishes dishonest people kept from merit source and dt but rather only those that he does not collude directly with.

These things are very important to consider when you are reviewing such an application. It is fine to put up a reason for supporting or denying but these reasons will come under scrutiny when people want to reach the optimal solution.

I think it was only the first 20 people that got in for saying " I'm in"  - I was one of those lucky few

It's quite clear that a precedent has been set even copy and pastes for financial gain can be over turned if you can demonstrate you are a keen and valuable member. Chibitcty is a valuable trader we need all the traders we can get so he came back with a sig ban. I support that.

I think you should be given the same opportunity to return without a sig for a year or 2 or whatever theymos thinks is fair. People supporting bitcoin for all of these years should not be kicked out for good unless they do it again. Most people here are not real enthusiasts and just here to milk some money from the board. So take the sigs away and if they still contribute then they are worth keeping.

Even though I see that QS has started claiming I of all persons am an unproductive member I will support his merit source application.  The reason being the merit merry go round colluding DT group do NOT want him in DT.  

These broken systems of control need to have opposing factions to keep them in order and prevent this board becoming an echo chamber.

All this fuss about him self escrowing is NOTHING compared to what others have tried here. Let's be honest to even be a DT or merit source you need to have done something scammy or support their scammy actions. So trying to prevent him on this basis is laughable.

That theymos made tman a merit source says it all.... ANYONE can be a merit source in that case. That person is observably stupid, runs if you ask him to provide any examples of his original thought inspiring posts and is guilty of many untrustworthy deeds and actions. How long has that miscreant been a merit source?
  
QS has some critical reasoning skills and makes the odd mistake (like he did by saying my post theymos deleted was irrelevant and off topic when clearly it was not and nobody would even dare debate it with me) but the majority of his posts seem far more logical and clear minded than most others who are merit sources and DT (not difficult). Some of those do not even have the capacity to recognise a valuable post from a net negative piece of trash hence giving them merits to splash just creates a misleading system on top of it being a dangerous system.

The more merit sources the better really, these broken systems will stay broken and free speech vulnerable until the colluding group have a serious bit of opposition. The systems MAY improve long term when there are enough DT's that total collusion is impossible to maintain.

That is my reasoning for supporting his application. I would say all legends should auto become merit sources anyway unless extremely inappropriate... but given the fact tman is merit source then.......

The last example is NOT a rule infraction the first one is a rule infraction but if you were not wearing a sig i don't see it as terminal. If there are lots more then that will likely be no hope.


This person https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=904524  was allowed back with a sig ban so it is your call whether or not to push for the same. They were busted for doing it for financial reasons so there is hope for anyone who did not do it for financial reasons. It is your call whether to push to keep your account or not. If it was a legend account it would 100% be worth it under any circumstances but this is your choice.

I see this https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=904524 as a precedent so if you are were not even wearing a sig at the time it seems your's was NOT as serious.

Don't be ridiculous, this is something that anyone could say. I hardly think this is anything to do with it. The first one is without doubt a copy but if that is not financially motivated then since this person who was copy pasting for financially motivated reasons https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=904524  was allowed back then anyone who was not doing it for money should be allowed back for another chance.

I would say wait until snichmoon appears to demonstrate the most damning evidence before building a case.

Are you just going to leave it there as just a statement with no observable grounding or continue with a detailed break down of negatives and positives measured against the old system?

I would be interested to see this, and it is surely on topic if we are discussing does the new system work.

Thanks, that is quite interesting to know.

I am compiling a list of my deleted posts and their context for future reference and actually I notice huge swathes sometimes entire pages in my message box are all from threads that  no longer exist. I have located 2 entire threads from different OP's that have been totally vaporized and all of those posts of mine in there are coming as separate deletes or at least that is what it looks like?

Should these not just count as 1 delete? when the thread gets taken down. The best part is all that important information and evidence is still there which is fantastic.

But I mean if you have say 25 posts in one thread and it gets deleted why do you get 25 messages saying post deleted? one by one? or is it possible that all the posts were deleted individually one after another and then then thread was nuked later on?

Does this happen for every person that is banned? Their threads (they started) are deleted?  is that not incredibly dangerous if true because the historical damage is huge in some cases.  Were anonymints topics deleted that he started?

@ OP ...The system does NOT work and can not work.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5088852.0

ask me any questions you do not understand .

Whatever you can make off doing tasks like this, you can make a TON more by using the information the board provides and trading on that information or just sig promoting for them on their ico.

Sure some people are likely making 5k+ per month or greater doing these things.

The BIGGER money is in ESCROW and also SIG campaign managing. Especially if you are holding a HUGE swathe of other peoples BTC when a fork happens to take place. Sig campaign managing depends on the deal they get from the project.

Still as I say.. avid reading and talking with some REAL devs (who also do keep their eyes on new and exciting ideas) will give you some great insights into trading and of course there you can make huge amounts of btc/money.

Some like consistent sig rev  BTC coming in from gambling, mixing, etc. However much more can be gained by picking just some great ALTs that will have a good chance.

For example one could have earned I think about 3 000 000 or it could have been 6 000 000 dollars for just saying a few sentences to promote an alt here previously and quite a few indeed did earn 100's K USD from just saying "i'm in" . So picking the correct one is also very important with airdrops.

Imagine a forum where you can get 6 000 000 USD for saying "hello Im in" - never has there been such place and we worry this place is going to die off  - no chance.  

Quite a complex question I think if we are going to view merit as something that we are really trying to apply in some of meaningful way.

Yes, in this case it is likely just kissing ass if they were applied before the end of the campaign . Another way that merit corrupts and breaks the natural behaviour of users here . It gives incentive to ass kiss and agree with those that have merits to give and other positions beneficial to paid2post and deters saying anything against them or their ideas, merits can be used to sweeten and bribe too.  Hence the gross influence over free speech. However I do think there is hope for the future as it is likely to improve long term.

This is relevant to the to the OP because although it is a waste in some cases, one can not say that for sure.  I mean you would have to present a case to demonstrate that. If that person is already a legend then yes it could be seen as a waste regardless or certainly if they have exceeded the earned 250 merits DT key threshold nomination requirement.

Is it deserving?  Really then  the only way that a campaign manager is deserving of merit (for that campaign)is  if he is doing his job to the best abilities that serves optimally

1st . the board - make sure he is not working for a scamming project. This means a 2 bit run with the btc  scams nor a far more dangerous long term moral crushing and large scale scam that takes months or years to finally collapse into a mess of broken investors and empty dev fund. So really they would need to have a great understanding of the white paper and the team and how the funds are to be released to that team. In short they would need to do a lot of homework and make sure the escrows are highly reliable and milestones are set at sensible stages.

2nd. the advertisers / project itself -  a poor community manager that should be avoided is one that gives unfair favour to those he is familiar with (or for any other unexplainable reason)  even if they are less suitable  in terms of " objective value of their posts" . In short a campaign manager should accept ALL members on a first come first served basis unless he HIMSELF can present a STRONG case to demonstrate using observable events they are NOT creating valuable posts or that they have scammed or strongly likely to have scammed. Else this is sensible grounds for discrimination and the suspicion of back handers and other less clear mutual benefits.

It must also run smoothly, and those participants that stick by the "fair" terms are paid out what it was stated they would receive.

So in summary only you can decide if these kind of merits are deserved or not, but really they should not be applied at all until the END of the campaign. Else how would one determine they have met the stated pre requisites of providing optimal or near optimal service to the board, advertisers and the project?

Actually campaign managers are the KEY to balancing a lot of currently unbalanced aspects of the board. Their actions/decisions should be under close close scrutiny even more so than merit sources and DT when you start to think about it deeply. The buck stops with them, and it is their job to make THEY are taking the most appropriate and optimal actions not relying on misleading subjective metrics.

when you click on the individual items description on the web market place can everyone scroll down or is it just my machine that is making the scroll bar appear like it is frozen and i can only see a bit of the description. ... it well may be my machine since I use a tiny res mini laptop because I am always mobile and never anywhere suitable for a larger machine. Plus it's rather old.

Great to see some better things getting listed too.

I wonder for potential metals sellers where the market tracks up and down if one day in the future we could get some kind of kitco tracking bot and it moves their listing prices up and down on the market place ... so they could list their entire inventory on bitbay and the prices will track up and down as spot moves up and down? or is that not even possible once the selling process is initiated.

Nice to see bitbay moving up even against btc strongly today. Not many are.

Ah the girl who does not give one fuck about me, back again . I know you're all there panting away in those heavy house wifey sighs waiting for my gorgeous kyc pics.

Well, okay then regarding suchmoons appearance... beauty is in the eye of the beholder I believe they say. You likely love the smell of stale and rancid urine so I will let you challenge me her scent too...haah

I'm glad you challenged the one(of2) you know is not observably undeniable.

Happy april fools day... fools.

Anyway I stated my crimes I feel better getting those off my chest.  Sorry, and I promise to repeat them as often as possible.

my crimes

- telling the truth and presenting observable events from the post histories of some scum bags after they attacked me personally for no particular reason.

- pushing for a fair and equal environment for all.

Every day is april fools on meta so why the fuss.

@notildah  

you forgot to add buying your account from nutildah

I would never skimp to 2500 words -- please less of the insults.

Bones only

Bones261 - proliferating false information about me. This  dirty little human excretion  is now making up more disgusting lies about me. I had previously considered him more reasonable than some of the others but now I was alerted to him felching away on  other DT scoundrels and making up out right lies about me.


Let us break down his post and isolate every single misleading statement and out right lie.


1.He also is against people who are in the top 200 merit receivers

misleading - only those observably cycling merit to their pals

2. merit sources

misleading - there are many I have no idea who they are.

3.staff members who delete any of his posts

LIE - only those that delete posts that are on topic and relevant or those that delete my defensive posts to prior false accusations and lies by others who attack me first and then just  leave their posts there.

4. anyone who uses the report to moderator function

LIE obviously this is nothing to do with me in the vast majority of cases

5. anyone who disagrees with his "facts,"

LIE - well you have had plenty of time to produce the incorrect information I am proliferating. I mean if you want to disagree with a fact that's your issue.

6. anyone who belongs to a signature campaign

LIE and foolish statement

7. anyone who ever invested in Dash

LIE innocent investors are the victims


this disgusting dirty little rimming parasite is always pretending to be reasonable then sneaking away to ass kiss his DT masters and adding lies and false accusations about me in their protected self moderated thread.

Come debate here BONES261 so I can crush you like the dirty little wretch  that you are.

Bring your evidence of your false claims here so I can laugh at you like the disgusting fool that you are. Once I demonstrate you are making false accusations then I insist that you fix your post else I will brand you and observable liar and untrustworthy.

If you can not substantiate your false allegations then you should retract your comments and adapt your post.





edit bones nicely agreed to  recant his false accusations