@techshare

Can not find fault with anything your last post said. I agree.

Hmmm 2 smart people here debating. I like reading it.

Let's not fall out and put each other down and therefore spoil future interactions between you both.


I will add my view (perhaps incorrect ). Let's see.


So to me it is quite complex ....

However I have to disagree - you are not guilty until proven innocent although kind of tipping the scales toward the accuser heavily in the presentation of what I believe are sensible and reasonable data to the jury to digest. So although you are not guilty they are making it very hard to prove you are innocent even when you are.

I say this still you are not guilty until you prove innocent though because...

If there was only an accusation but 0 evidence or corroborating events  from either side then you would be set free as an accused rapist.

That seems therefore you are still innocent until the accuser brings some sensible and corroborating evidence? I mean if i just say you raped me but then no evidence or corroborating events to bring at all I am sure that my rapist will still be set free even if he just says didn't happen with no evidence.

However this does seem a clear attempt to tip the balance in favour of the accuser from where it has been before I believe in a negative way to finding optimal outcome.

They seem to be making it easier for someone to accuse and removing the sensible and credible ways that you could ever defend yourself.
However they will still need something to suggest it was you and that you raped them. Else just their word against your own.

I think the papers would have a field day and destroy the victim if I the rapist could provide a video of them the victim riding on top cumming their brains out then after going nuts in the room saying they were raped and calling the cops. I think that this law will not hold if ever such a thing came about.

I mean it does seem as if they are saying it is down to the accused to prove their innocence and at the same time as saying will remove sensible and reasonable ways that you could  prove your innocence. However with no evidence from either side at all then you will be set free I am certain.

I firmly believe if you are giving out punishment then the strong onus should be on the accuser to provide a conclusive and reasonable case that the punishment is deserved. The physical evidence (hospital records) is a strange one. I mean in the case of rape how would they not be relevant ?

Anyway so in this case my (perhaps incorrect view) is that it is a damaging and unfair move but still you will be innocent until it is quite reasonable that you are guilty... so no corroborating evidence from accuser then you will walk.

If I am wrong then that is because i have zero understanding of the law ... however would like to see an analogy or hypothetical scenario that demonstrates this.

Good battle and I really liked this pyramid techshare presented demonstrating the levels of rebuttal during debate. Very good.

I still accept techshare may give me a scenario that makes me see he is correct but just at this minute I am saying still not guilty in light of zero evidence from both sides.






............


although hmmm now I think about such a scenario perhaps it has happened already ....


How do these celebs get banged up for girls they are accused of  showing their dick to many many years ago?

I mean there can be little evidence or zero from either side and still they do get banged up sometimes it seem on the weight of a couple of others presumably with zero evidence corroborating their story. Then it does seem if there was no evidence either way and you can get banged up perhaps it is guilty until proven innocent ?  or if examining those cases would you find some kind of corroborating and convincing evidence other than some extra people coming with the same accusation with zero evidence?

Does seem worrying though the direction in which things are going....

I think it is a negative change in the law if you are really interested in finding out the truth.

If they keep going in that direct the next step is just saying you are guilty and you can not respond at all and the accuser gets to state his accusation and you have to just be quiet.

Seems I must take extra precautions to not get tagged in the first place and stick to having sex in public for payment from the female for my service. Of course brain control can not be ruled out and with no medical records admissible , witnesses memories contaminated and adjusted and no contact at all with jury or judge (because those magneto hats are out of stock)you will probably just get robbery added to the rape charge...

Then again prison isn't so bad for horny devils I was told... so long as you can manage your sexist, racist, ageist, xenophobic,  prejudices, and are not some kind of hypochondriac.

This is no different to copy and paste with regard to giving credit to original source. Non original work with no way to find the original source, bots can be made. Copy and paste in pic form is no different.

.
As I have said before and will say once again this new focus on copy and paste is to rid the board or net negative persons who are incapable of producing original work and are only here to earn spam bucks from their sigs. Whether their bots grab the text and slap in in a pic or whether they do not is not any different. They can achieve their same goal to earn bucks, they do so on the basis of others original work.


I would go further to say that a spammer posting copy and paste off topic junk in a serious thread is less net negative that those that put up a semi convincing counter argument that is does not rebut the correct and true statements of someone else but leads people (who are unable to understand the truth or evaluate correctly the presented evidence) to believe the correct statements/claims have been successfully rebutted .... then those people are even more net negative and with too many of those examples should be again put on junior boards to work on their critical thinking and reasoning before ruining the main boards.

These bots and parrots are just a general dilution and annoyance rather than some that actually mislead people into incorrect assumptions and far away from reaching consensus in an optimal way.

Let's be clear on what is trying to be achieved by any actions taken.

I say only net positive actions that have a strong case should taken or you are actually damaging the board and being net negative.

Taking lots of action that leads to no provable net gain is pointless.

Cure the source of the issue. Make big changes else you will just keep tweaking and reporting forever.

Until you remove all financial incentive to post you will never get away from people trying to just post anything (mostly dilution and junk) to earn bucks they probably really need sadly.

let's not split hairs i meant new persons not essentially newbie rank.... my point stands

I am not after your for copyright, I dont care what you do so long as you are not spamming the forum constantly to earn money.

However tracing back that image of the spinning ball (even if i know to pull image source some may not) gives me no greater chance of attributing it to the original source creator than if it was just posted here  on bitcointalk servers

So it is no better than copy and pasting the spinning ball text straight here in terms of reference to the original source and not claiming as your own

A newbie who wanted to spam with this method could find spinning ball texts or whatever slap them in a pic and embed then via 3rd party host into threads here where they are mildly relevant .... a bot could do this and there would be according to you no way to act against them

To me it is actually away to get away with using non original text or material without attributing or referencing the actual source ... it is get out of jail free benefit from others work. I can tell you know I bet someone doing that a lot for financial gain would be in trouble. I would not be surprised if this is the next noob way of spamming of non original work and will be hard for spiders to jump on too.

Racism is quite a natural tendency (although not a positive thing) nor mostly a sensible thing.

I mean there are exceptions. Treating people differently based on race would require a positive and logical reason to do so for the optimal outcome of that particular scenario. That could be called racism but would just be logical and sensible.

In large groups there will be natural breakdowns to smaller groups ...each time it is drilled down a level a new ism will arise.  This I have noticed in many other groups.

Humans like to feel safe so will fall into smaller groups as larger group breaks down.... this is my suspicion

Anything can form the temporary distinction of groups  race, religion, hair colour , sex  age

Unless that ism is really the proven cause of a negative issue then the ism is just wasting time when you could be finding the real source or an optimal solution and making another ism that is legitimate.

I sometimes find it hard to form a solid opinion on  broad statements than ones that are drilled down.. well I think so anyway.

Sometimes over simplification can lead to me not knowing if I agree or disagree... then again it's the details that are impossible to thrash out to an optimal solution that makes me realise there is no knowing if you are more positive or negative in either direction.....hmm.

1. freedom of the individual

Yes agree its important but unsure if it can be more important than the impact on the group of that freedom. So is it important or not? Well I think we should aim for as much freedom as possible.

This is a tough balance in any society. I highly value individual freedoms although... Each individual can not be free to do exactly as they like else an optimal quality of life (in terms of enjoyment) can not be led by the optimal number of individuals.

The individuals freedom should be something that should be set to max settings  until clearly negative/non optimal on group. I had this discussion before on here with another person where I still think that if were possible every individual should be free of all rules(if that is what they want) if they could live isolated or apart from others where their actions had no direct impact. Later trade between them and any other group could be on agreeable terms.

 This sadly is not possible as of now but may become possible. Over intrusive government or any layers of control that are not needed should be rolled back until doing so is again clearly negative or dangerous for the group. Really though until any individual can opt out freedom of the individual needs balancing carefully. I do believe even anarchy is better than centralised control that is clearly not working for the optimal quality of life for the optimal amount of people. Especially if that control is spiraling out of control in terms of becoming more centralised, more powerful and less optimal for more people.


2 The prevailing banking/fiat system is on the whole bad.

This is a system of control that I do not believe seeks to provide an optimal standard of life for an optimal number of people at this time.

3.  In most places, the people would be far better off if major changes were made to their respective governments.

Yes but the blueprint for such changes I would not know exactly where to start. Even small changes can have large and unintended impact through so many levels and permutations I would be scared of what to change first. Streamlining and making them more efficient would be the first way ..... but I know even governments and their actions or even abilities to enact change are part of a wider connected web of global trade and business.

4. As long as scarcity exists, the existence of some form of trade is good.

Yes I think so

5. Technology is good.

Hmmm. Another one where I have no idea of the true answer. Technology and well all science is to me a simple discovery of laws that exist so merely unraveling the truth of these laws and building things that operate upon those laws. This knowledge has great power to do good and bad. However to me as technology enables control and influence of a small central control over the majority regardless of their will then I will say this discovery of laws is both good and bad and is good for somethings but bad for others. I think I would say it is both essential and terrifying. It will depend upon how it is put to use. Long term I say it is good short to mid term it could be bad for lots of people. Then again from observing the timeline of technology perhaps it has made things better for people and most will only see it as good. Unclear.

6. Humanity should dominate the universe.

I have no idea. Again I am not sure what alternative forms of intelligence or dominating forces there are. To me humanity to a vast degree is born of being self aware, awareness of others and awareness of the interactions between parties and their effects for both sides then running a calculation of what the self gain vs group gain ratio is. Self being favoured but if it is sociable which I expect any form of intelligence would be then moderate consideration to the group and their ability or motivation to interact on a basis you would like.  I mean I just made that up as I thought about it... the last bit so could be totally incorrect and crazy.


These are just where I am now of course... as always open to change my mind if I can see that those answers are non optimal...or just hugely flawed.

optimal is a great word I am sure of that.

Am I a communist by the way? Someone said that I was .....but I had always preferred to be civilian in a capitalist democratic society than in any communist based country ... as far as I know anyway.

Could question 1 - 6 all have the same answer like ... yes or no depending on which action led to the optimal enjoyment for the optimal amount of people ... compared to the alternative?  I mean is that the goal of most people answering but yes or no is just their idea of how to reach the goal? Or are we all aiming for different things by disagreeing ( if we do) ?

create some content of your own.....

LOL so now you just start creating different situations to yours to defend... because you do not have the intelligence to realise that is not applicable to your case at all.

Let's just take this

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1009045.msg47044986#msg47044986

Where you do acknowledge the original source ? are you claiming you created that text and then made it into a pic? about the spinning balls? are you saying embedding original content from merely a 3rd part hosting site they may have placed their own original content is okay? I mean how would one even validate from some hosting site where it was from or whom created it?

Where do most memes acknowledge the original source of that content? some link to a 3rd party webhosting is a reference to original source?

That spinning ball  text if copied and pasted from a website here it would be plagiarism... .not that I would give 1 fuck so long as it was not done all of the time and that person was being helpful and was not just doing to to earn money.  So now a newbie bot should not rip content via copy and paste of text they can just rip the text and place it into a pic on 3rd party host and that will be okay? I mean even if you are saying people need to know to click image source then go to that url .... how to know if this is put there by the original source or someone else just ripped off his stuff and put it there? even if he put it there himself and there is no way to track back to him for credit then again that makes it impossible to for any plagiarist to get caught. That kinds of makes it impossible to complain about any pics placed here and linked to 3rd party sites. The entire thing is almost a way to rip non original content spam the board with it and then make it impossible to complain about because you claim that embedded link to the 3rd party source is a good enough.
.

What is to stop bots grabbing text splatting it into jpegs or any other pics and splattering the board with it on any related terms?? nothing that's right and that is what we want to prevent.

Stop trying to have the last incorrect word or create some kind of situation to defend that is not applicable to the situation you are in.

I am not interested in you filling your post count up (collating without direct reference to original source) with pics of others original work so stop worrying yourself about it i can smell your fear from here. Just shut up and buzz off and find some more original work of others to post from 3rd party hosting sites

I will continue to bring new ideas to the board and help provide a fairer system until the entire arena is decentralised and trustless

The point is very important but merit has nothing to do with giving credit to those that make the most optimal or correct point. It is simply a subjective award given for varying and completely different personal reasons.

Take our last thread for instance (important thread of the year). The  OP  makes provably correct and important observations gets 1 merit vs over 20+ merits for a post that is in contrast to that but provides negative value to that thread in that is seeks to null or reduce the importance of the OP based on a misleading interpretation of anecdotal experiences.

As that threads stands all of that merit should be removed or the OP should be awarded magnitudes more merit. It will not happen and there is nothing to prevent this kind of thing and far worse happening at anytime with no reversal process.

None of that is really important at this point because the entire merit system is good for holding back noobs and account farmers it is not really meant to have any real weight put in those scores. So long as no other systems are built upon merit that try to ascribe some objective value to it then it does not really matter. It should be decoupled from rank after full member or every legend and hero should become a merit source to prevent collusion and control in such a central way.

No point complaining you're not getting enough merit better to focus on posts that bring nothing except groundless opinions that are gaining merit. If you start to question people on why they are giving merit to false or misleading or just nothing burger posts then perhaps merit will only start going to posts that are correct, valid in that they push the debate/conversation toward a new and more optimal solution or opinion.

Merit as it is = data with very low reliability

Of course bots and people incapable of writing 1 line posts that are barely on topic will not get any (unless from their alts) will be deprived of it that is about all you can say.

The obsession with who is getting it in any other context than to illustrate the entire system needs a reset and some criteria or measure put in place to attempt to make is useful is a waste of energy.

Better to spend time on discussing how to implement changes to bring the board back to a place where collisions between real enthusiasts and people who are positive to the progression and development of an  arena that is end to end decentralised and trustless rather than allowing anyone to start blabbering on with stuff that dilutes those collisions and even damages pushing foward to that end goal.

There are 3 main posts that can be truly positive here, the tech discussions that will bring forth the mechanisms upon which an end to end trustless decentralised environment will run upon. Posts that are non tech based but can help devise the concepts upon which those may be thrashed out and coded ..and those posts that help keep this environment fair and free and truly merit based along the way. One can argue humour and various other posts could have some kind of value to some people but are not essential.

shut up fool you are a hypocritical dip shit

loads of your posts pages and pages are just content that you did not create I mean most pages of you history are filled with content that is not original.... you are probably net negative here so don't start talking to those on another level in terms of contribution to this forum.

why don't we just tell noobs to copy and paste text to an image and post it here linked from somewhere else how will that be any different ... filling up tons of spam all over the place that bots can do in seconds.... this kind of implanting of other peoples content is equally as bad if not worse and yes could actually have legal implications now or in the future.

Define retarded. Then prove that I have lost one debate ever.

Then get to my page long post on meta that nobody has been able to rebut as yet and start to try and read it. Then if you believe you understand it and do not agree with it then feel free to present your case.

Only try posting if you have an opinion or statement to voice that you can substantiate or back with some evidence.

I am bored of reputation so reply to me in meta

@BitcoinSupremo

thanks for support and demonstrating you are one of the few people that actually starts to see just how these control systems merit and trust are slipping in beneath admin level to suppress free speech here. It's an observable fact how open these very systems are to abuse.

Please mr nobody

Stfu

Look at hypocrite ... worried about others peoples prior art..

this is just in a couple of pages of his history  ...pleb


https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1009045.msg47044986#msg47044986

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5088731.msg48852497#msg48852497

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4564216.msg48461189#msg48461189

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5055672.msg47221161#msg47221161

where is your credit to these peopleS prio art?  where is your source?

Memes are now actually breaking the law in the EU ....are those hosted in the EU

Even so why would you think you can fill you entire post history crammed with crap you did not originally produce and the try to comment on a real legend you dumb shit.

Do you have any provable achievements here to make me believe you are even net positive here? to counter this ?

copy and paste or failure to add references now and then when helping people and gaining nothing financially is not permaban if you are netpositive....  I mean even 1. 1000 would be acceptable with no financial motive your history is littered with taking other peoples work and giving no credit.

Now sit down and shut up

I believe if a system allows to the unfair treatment of 1 individual it needs review and additional measures to fix that that it failed to protect previously.

Some people just take it and do not have the will, capacity or personality to face what it takes to get fair treatment.

Trust is to warn me about getting scammed out of money not about their preference for lemons. Bring the criteria or scrap.
Or maybe change the red message to say " click to find out peoples opinion of lemons"

Scammers get red trust. Others can just keep differences of opinion and petty arguments to themselves.

His main point is clearly observable and has a great deal of corroborating evidence and I believe is a true statement . It is of great importance to the board and the future of free speech here that nobody should abuse systems of control to limit any persons free speech with accompanying reasonable argument.

I think personally think that things will start to change soon anyway now that I have highlighted how both merit and trust systems are open to abuse and therefore able to influence natural posting behaviour.

Getting people banned to silence them will never work. The people that care about this board will always encourage others to join to pick up the baton and fight the good fight.

Only non enthusiasts would see a ban as the end of the road, It is merely more incentive.

Net positive members and giants of achievment compared to most should never be treated with disrespect by net neutral or net negative members. The very notion of that is inverse to building value into this board.

Let's get serious on this board. We want real input and real posts/debates between those that have some hope of generating new ideas and new solutions.

Snitching on people that are clearly net negative is one thing but attempting to sully the great name of real legends should not be tolerated. These bottom feeders need to be removed or asked to produce work or ideas produced worthy of remaining.

I will debate with anyone with an open mind and in public. If I have to change more original stance or opinion then i would be nothing other than grateful. I would thank them.

Chosen username is the only person to stand up for me and for that I give full respect and gratitude. Others pale into insignificance compared to you my friend and I will not forget this. You will be remembered above and beyond all those that slunk away thinking only of their own interests. I understand some are affraid to speek out are  but still money is nothing compared to free speech.

I can honestly say anyone who's aim is simply a fair system for all should be treated with respect and gratitude.

Let's be honest most of these high merit achievers are observably weak and broken minds that betray the entire point of a merit system.
The mere fact their opinions and statements have never been put under any real scrutiny does not mean they are valid. Every time that I have analysed what they say it seems to fall apart and collapse.

I can not augment additional processing and analytical abilities into these dullards nor their supporters but that is not my fault and does not make us wrong. The fact others can not operate at a level to find that out for themselves is again not my fault.

Your initial statement is true in the OP chosen username and I will always appreciate you are able to see this and that you felt the urge to help me.  

I support you and your thread and If i could make you a real LEGEND at once I would surely do so.

This will likely be my last post in reputation for a while since it is a baron land we need to crush abusers and controllers with facts and observable events in meta.

Is the blacknet live already?

Is there a time limit of redeeming the blacknets you gained by burning?

Of course I understand there may be a few teething issues at the start but I will like to wait until the network is running smoothly.

Any feedback on how things are going thus far?

1. impossible to monitor does not null what I have demonstrated clearly needs doing or needs scrapping
2. Disagreeing with observable raw data is up to you
3. Deserved it compared to what ? in a subjective system how can you deserve something objectively ? this is fine if it's just a bit of subjective fun but if you start trying to put value to those scores against other peoples scores it is ludicrous.
4. I can not ascribe high value to ludicrous statements and broken logic.


But sure continue with the trust system here. I am certain there is no room for different rules for different people in any system of control at a low or mid level. For grey areas and context only the highest level must have some freedom. This highest level is generally voted in or out my the populace depending on how fair or unfair they perceive them to be.

If sub layers of control (consisting of multiple people the more the worse for subjectivity) have freedom or even no guidelines the entire thing ends up a mess of different individuals getting different treatment depending on the collisions with different "system controllers and those "system controllers" views towards them and their actions at that given moment in time.

a subjective system for trust  is open to abuse.

Banning these bots that are cutting and pasting from the net just to bump threads does nothing.

It is likely automated mostly to rejoin with tons more of them immediately.

Let's stick to discussing the only thing you can tackle with sig bans or bans.

You are going to have to implement junior boards to get rid of fake conversation and bot bumpers.

Even then you will just move it to junior boards but at least the main discussion boards will slow down and there will be more collisions by real members that can write real content and posts. More real debates and discussions.

Perm bans do nothing for spam bots bumping topics or any brand new accounts because they have no value and are totally expendable.

Sig bans will have the same effect the account is dead for them now.

Of course you can not have a control system that is subjective.

That is exactly how abuse takes place.

Take away subjectivity and enforce object set of rules for everyone they bye bye abuse. At least abuse that is reported.

Anyone requesting subjectivity inside a control system is asking for the ability to apply different rules to different people. That is called unfair.

NO way.

DT trust needs strict set of guidelines.

So does merit.

Any system of control needs strict criteria or it is wide open for abuse. How can you you appeal in a subjective system unless there is such unreasonable behaviour that most people recognise it is unreasonable enough to speak out about and the person who was unfairly treated has enough energy to go through reporting it and presenting his case to convince others who will subjectively evaluate the situation. A total gauntlet. Or you just demonstrate how the red trust was outside of the criteria and that is reversed and DT member remove after x bad red trusts given.

Even worse when the people in the control system are of the same pool as the users competing for all the same things. Not to mention disagreements and personality clashes and well just bad moods whatever.

Subjectivity = no comeback for messing up or abusing

The excuse I want to add a new reason for giving red trust because I feel it is a good idea is not the point. It is not for lower level controls to decide to operate under different mandates. The central point of authority develops new rules and hands them down to the lower levels of control to enact upon everyone fairly.

If someone gets a red trust they need to know it is a fair decision, they have clear right of appeal if there is abuse and that anyone else who had done the same thing would have got red trust in the same context.  There will always be grey areas but they should be small and more details to broad rules can be drilled down as you go and as grey areas arise. These can be taken care of by moderators if needed.

 



 

Who gives one fuck about what you think?

You are some noob that is net NOTHING.

ONLY CLEAR FINANCIALLY MOTIVATED COPY AND PASTE SHOULD EVEN BE REPORTED.

Anything else is snitching pathetic crap.

If anyone gets banned here for posting something without a reference to original source for a good reason or clearly with a good motive should not even be bothered, unless doing it all the time.

DO YOU KNOW.

MEMES are now actually something that breaks the LAW in europe.

Most copy and past on here is not even illegal. It is not copyright theft at all.  The odd case where people get lazy with a reference with a motive for helping people and no financial reward for doing so is nothing to keep blabbering on about.

I'm wonder if some of these meme linkers are linking from any sites hosted in the EU ... I wonder what that would mean for them.

So we are trying to kick people off who are net positive helping people or the board with information and now we want to allow memes that are mostly used to take the piss and provide no help to the board a free pass.

Where is attribution to the original owners/producers work in the memes??

The entire thing is pathetic.

We want rid of copy and pasters who are bots or people that are doing it over and over for their own financial reward and not trying to help anyone.

How about I don't think you should walk away freely for wasting my time explaining things to you when I could be helping others push for big changes here that you probably dont  have the capacity to understand?

By wasting my time you taking my quality and focus from this board and you will become net negative I could easily provide a case to demonstrate such people are sucking from the board and should be deleted unless you can provide some evidence you have done a lot of good here to counter that.

I agree, there should be NO ROOM for abuse in a system that controls the behaviour of others.

Remove the opportunity to abuse or may huge efforts to do so or remove the system of control.