Then I stand corrected  I will see what I can do for him instead, as I do have hosting solutions |
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There seems to be only one way to resolve the clutter problem:
A new altcoin forum, ie a new forum site devoted to altcoins. This forum is for Bitcoin, and it's operators are correct in not subdividing for the alts further, it is not their focus. Though I wouldn't feel that good taking away Bitcointalk's traffic, it is clear that the Altcoin universe has outgrown this place.
I am willing to make that happen with your support, as it is very easy for me to do (don't worry, it poses no serious distraction on my part to BlockBurner's efforts, I would consider it BlockBurner's community service)
Altcointalk.org was registered recently but who knows if the owner actually intends to do something with it in the near future. I can have this up by weeks end.
Yes? Pitch me some domain name ideas I can look at, and we'll forge a new community site just for you. Unless Google has completely failed me I have yet to find a board dedicated to the alts so far.
Operatr
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Until BitBar and all these other wannabe coins actually become something other than a "coin of the week" experiment, Ill stick to LiteCoin and Bitcoin thanks, the only true primes at the moment.
The market decides what they are worth, not you.
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So how long before the community can pronounce it dead?
Death of a coin is simply when it stops being traded I would think, FTC trade volume has certainly tanked this week...but still going |
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10 other coins joined it...
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so a coin die, when reach value 0?
Coins die when they stop being traded |
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I think a lot of it has to do with the emergence of several new coins as well, traders have shifted their attention to these as BTC continues it's overall rise beyond comfort level for many weekend warriors. Altcoins are dirt cheap and are much more volatile, many are making a killing riding those waves, but it is a lot more dangerous (as I know with FTC bottoming out...)
If anything it is a good thing to see this volatility find a new home which keeps BTC and LTC more stable overall and less prone to run ups/downs because it is being taken to altcoin exchanges instead. The price has remained as BTC is being diverted to these other coins as well. This extends to mining botnets as well that are targeting the altcoins with BTC difficulties exploding (severely in the coming months with ASICs finally hitting the streets en masse).
I look at the larger picture though beyond the day trade. Simply holding your BTC could make you a very rich person as governments and banks continue to implode. We have already seen an example of people flocking to Bitcoin with the Cyprus mess, and now Argentinians are getting on board as the Peso crumbles at 25% inflation per year (!!!). The exodus from fiat has only just begun, thanks to the news people are waking up to the fact there is a way out that never existed until now.
The buy in is higher now, but the eventual end game will make that $100/BTC look like nothing when it crests $1000s as banking exiles find a new home in crypto-currency as trust in the fiat system continues its epic decline to irrelevance.
We are the pioneers of the most massive paradigm shift the world has ever seen. Hold on to your butts when the fiat stock markets go straight into the ground a little later this year probably taking the rest of the world with it, and that is happening right now as it reaches the level it did right before the 2002 and 2008 crashes. Real economists not controlled by NewsCorp see it coming, as the stock trade is booming, while real world economics paint a whole different picture of what is really going on. Several nations are on the brink of total collapse, any market quiver will spell the end at this point, and it cannot simply be "fixed" by Bernake's magic money press this time.
I truly believe Bitcoin may very well be the last working economies left, and soon.
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In the spirit of fairness; how about when the time comes you are accepting preorders you do it in sort of a raffle. I'm guessing the wave of people jumping at the chance to preorder one will be way more then whatever can be manufactured. Even if i was one of the many that didn't get a winning spot for a preorder i'd be fine knowing it was simply a matter of luck, and not because i didn't jump in on the first ten minutes of the announcement or because three guy ran in and ordered them all.
But in reality, this isn't how normal business is conducted. Microsoft, Sony, HTC, Game Developers, etc. do not raffle pre-orders. They have a set amount of say the "limited edition", the more abundant "regular" edition, and the super rare "elite" edition, or whatever. If I was to walk into a gamestop say, and ask to pre-order a game and was told "you have to enter a raffle to even see if you're going to be able to," I would walk out immediately and I wouldn't purchase that game in retaliation to the ridiculousness that is the raffle. Honestly if you're late to the game, then why should you get the same benefit as those who did their diligence. I'm all for limiting the number that can be ordered per customer, so one can't buy 1000 units and make everyone down the line wait, but it should be FIFO. Now for BFL, it was handled poorly, those who did pre-order way in advance obviously are at an advantage, but this is not the fault of the customer, more so it is of the company. If for instance you have a 3 month pre-order wait time before release date, and you know you can produce 10k units in 3 months, then set the pre-order limit to 10k units. After that you can either have another pre-order round for the next batch, or just have the item as out of stock until they arrive. If you announce a pre-order in advance, then how is it not fair to everyone? Everyone who is keeping up with this will be informed, and can then either purchase a pre-order when available or not. If the pre-order units run out, that's just what happens, wait for the next time its available. Edit: Also, if the pre-order isn't a crazy long wait, then auctioning wouldn't be near as big of issue as it is with BFL. Excellent points! I had actually not considered the real problem with BFL was simply the length of the pre-order campaign. Ours would certainly not be running for a year, probably more like 1-2 months at most with a production plan already secured ahead of it, so once funds are secured production would begin immediately. So, no raffles or randoms, we just need to be sure to keep the campaign short. BFL got way ahead of themselves that bred many other issues and a large amount of mistrust in that year long wait. We don't want that, you don't want that, which is why we're being careful not to go that route.
1. Do you think the market and community is ready for FPGA Litecoin?
2. Is there definite interest in FPGA Litecoin machines? Would you buy one if the price was reasonable? What is reasonable?
3. Would you pre-order one to support first round funding for prototyping and first wave production?
1) Yes scrypt mining is pretty mature and popular. There are more than enough people investing in GPUs and tuning them to get the peak performance. If you made a good FPGA scrypt miner at the right price, people would buy them. 2) Just answered that. If your FPGA miner was well priced per hash, used less power per hash, and was neat and tidy to coordinate people would go for it. 3) Would pre-order to fund prototyping, but once you had development boards with guys like Kano who could review and give an opinion I would pre-order to help fund the building of a batch of chips and boards. My reason for this point to pre-order: -scam avoidance -knowledge of a time frame and proven performance. Just look at BFL. Completely screwed up both the period of time to finish the design, then completely screwed up the time line to production, then completely screwed up on end performance. If somebody like Kano would turn around and say "boards look good for X/Y/Z performance software should be finalised soon and board designs look mature enough for production" then I'm happy to part with some cash. -somebody else might come along with a better offer while you are trying to get to market. I'll hold onto my coins until I know I'll get the best product in the short term. Now if you went for a raffle - no way. If I front money right away before somebody else who waits til the week before shipping I should get my gear before they do. If that means the poor cheap risk less baby has to wait a long time, tough so did I from when I put in. If you went for auctions- no way. Set a competitive price where you are confident you will sell at the rate you can build them, and let me decide if I see that as what I want to spend. I don't want to have to wait for ever until the cash up idiots out there have run out of life savings before I'm willing to spend a more sensible amount. No doubt Auctions are better for sellers when demand is hot, but it doesn't impress me as a buyer. I would support a limit per customer would make more sense than 1. However you could always order via a friend's/family member's card and address to make more orders. What would impress me as a price? Well you can get a 7950 for $300 which can easily hash at 600mhs, so that is 50c a mhs. You will still need a host system for a GPU as well as a FPGA board, just you can run more FPGAs per host ultimately. It is likely by the time these FPGAs launch that the 8950 will be out which promises lower power and probably a little more speed (I hear power is more the concern currently). So you would be best to target at most 50c per mhs. Again a 7950 as the target means 250W for 600mhs -> 2.5mhs per W. You could assume a 8950 might be closer to 3mhs per W. So to impress me on the power front you'd want to be well better than 3mhs per W. I like the idea of a FGPA with decent ram performance as it opens it up for other uses later. An ASIC could only be used for mining or scypt work, but an FPGA could be used for all sorts of scientific applications later and hence actually have some good resale later. Their flexibility and potential is far higher than low/no ram spartan boards etc. good point... We are in fact talking to Kano There does exist a certain performance target in relation to GPU performance and price are aiming at. I won't say which just yet, but is definitely a large consideration. I have an expectation of running a tight campaign that is not too long and is only happening when a fully functioning reference board exists as proof-of-work and not a moment sooner. It isn't fair (and in fact fraudulent I think) to be selling what you don't have. BFL sold theirs well before the design was finished and fully tested, which is BS of the highest degree. As a future Jally owner (assuming they ever respond to their support email! Another thing with them that is making their customers nuts...) I know this pain all too well myself. BlockBurner is holding to a higher standard, based on facts and not guesses. The main site will be down for a bit as I rebuild it and email along with it for the moment, when it comes back later today there will be some new features Stay tuned |
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My usual comment on the subject ...
Send one to me and I'll write a cgminer USB driver for it ...
...
PM me here or visit IRC FreeNode #cgminer to talk ...
Thanks Kano, I'll run it up the ladder In the spirit of fairness; how about when the time comes you are accepting preorders you do it in sort of a raffle. I'm guessing the wave of people jumping at the chance to preorder one will be way more then whatever can be manufactured. Even if i was one of the many that didn't get a winning spot for a preorder i'd be fine knowing it was simply a matter of luck, and not because i didn't jump in on the first ten minutes of the announcement or because three guy ran in and ordered them all.
I had something like that in mind, in the way of raffle or randomized batches to eliminate any unfairness when it comes time to deploy. The problem when going a strictly queued route: 1. First in first out creates a rift between the first to sign up and the last, as those who came to the table late feel they are missing out while the initial adopters get theirs. I have a late BFL order, I know this feeling all too well (though it was a Jally so maybe not  ) 2. Allows people to sell their early pre-order slot on auction sites for disgusting amounts of money (leading to scams as well), which I think sucks. I would rather do it in a way that disregards whether you were first or last to hop on, and clips the pre-order auctions at the same time since no one would know what order it would be in. I am all for community input on this, tell me what you think would be a fair distribution system, I think everyone should have an equal opportunity I'd sell neighbor's dog for scrypt fpga
When we have some units in hand we'll talk  You'd better expect that until someone goes onward to ASIC, these things are going to need to be massively mass-produced, churned out in vast vast numbers... Way more than the puny few hundred a day that seems likely to make BFL take forever to deliver ASICs even if/when they do reach that imagined capacity. Scrypt is fashionable! -MarkM- ASIC for Scrypt would be a fair ways off as the FPGA stage is just beginning now, and Litecoin is more resistant to ASICs as well. It all depends on how much pre-order interest there is when it comes time for that step, in any case we will do our best to supply the demand with haste. I can't speak for BFL's process, though with ASICs there are many more design challenges to overcome as very customized hardware. FPGA's are better in this regard as the R&D time is significantly shorter as much of the hardware needed is available to us already. There is definitely no shortage of love for Scrypt coins Thanks everyone otherwise, your feedback is very important to us! At the moment we have been discussing the legal aspects of the business before we go much further in the design process, though the design process is very much active. |
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Once this gets to the House vote it will probably be DOA, which is the general feeling. They have tried pushing through this crap for 15 years, and have failed for 15 years to implement it.
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What strikes me odd about all of these new alts is not so much the coins themselves, but the complete lack of support structure around them aside the usual couple of exchanges and pools, and complete lack of push for actual adoption for something other than something new to mine.
If a coin is actually going to "make it" it will need more than a slightly modified version of Bitcoin or Litecoin. Most of these will likely go away, I don't see any clear innovation in any of these really.
Litecoin and Bitcoin are primes as they actually differ from one another in a core way (SHA vs Scrypt). I think any real contender will need to be this kind of fundamentally different that improves upon or solves a particular problem, with their creators doing more than just dropping it off on here.
Multiple coins are not a bad thing, multiple carbon clones is. Plus most of them will never make it out of the gate with such unmarketable names.
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When a prototype is developed, would it be possible for those of us willing to accept the risk to buy a proto?
I would imagine not. Firstly we would only be generating a very limited number of dev boards, but I personally don't believe in this kind of "early access" or pay-to-win scenario. I think everyone should have a fair chance when the time comes. I have some other ideas to mitigate order fairness, as I see some clear issues the way BFL and others have handled their pre-order campaigns (or didn't handle depending on who you ask). Otherwise, I have a newsletter in the works as well as our own site forums that expect to be alive within a day or two, and integrating the social aspects further so no matter your venue of choice, you can get updates directly from the source. Operatr |
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Lawyers will be tripping over themselves to draft the coming lawsuit against the school district. There is no way in hell she will be formally charged with a felony crime for this.
Coming up next: a call for a TSA like ban of household goods into public schools.
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I would be ready to order once numbers and timeframes are released.
Same here! ditto  Ask and you shall receive The hardware design is being discussed with some specifics locked down, still a ways off of the first prototype however but are moving quickly. This ends Week 2, for our short time in existence I think we have made a large amount of progress that is continuing at this pace. We are being deliberately tight lipped until we have something concrete to report to keep our expectations managed as well as yours. I think we have all seen (in BFLs case) the end results of getting ahead of ourselves, and have no desire to go down that road. There are discussions and progress in mapping the plan out in our JIRA development site, a part of which we will likely make public when it is time, but otherwise unwilling to divulge more than we are comfortable with. I have a personal announcement that I lost my meager meat-world job as of last Friday. As such, I will be running BlockBurner full time from now on through project completion and beyond. This does not affect our operations on a financial level, so all is good. If anything this is better in that I can now give my full and undivided attention the project and our supporters. Operatr |
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Technically it is true banks create money, because the FED is a privatized bank that loans money to the government with interest as well as next level major banks.
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Burning FTC currently with my humble 1 ghash rig (3x 7850), making around $20 a day at present market value
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Even if they managed to 51% Bitcoin-
It would only come at major expense
And we could easily move to another coin, forever
The Government can't do anything more about crypto-currency than they could about Pirate Bay
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I could care less, the FCC are just as worthless and corrupt as the rest.
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The market already seems extremely saturated already, I think future miners are in for a shock. This is becoming serious business with relatively unknown ROI. The only hope is BTCs price increases dramatically, which may be a function of now very expensive equipment. By the time everyone gets theirs the ROI be the same or less than today's rigs....though if BTC is worth $2k a coin someday even mining a little slice would still give a nice return even if you had to drop $1500 on a miner to do it. We will see what happens now
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Regulations from the same monsters that got us into the current financial hell we are all in now? No thanks
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