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941  Bitcoin / Group buys / Re: [OPEN - Group Buy]Dualminer USB ASIC sha/scrypt miner $85 [USA Only] on: January 29, 2014, 11:21:53 PM
Put me down for 5, bailing on Beastlymac's buy, AU shipping is crazy expensive
942  Bitcoin / Group buys / Re: [OPEN][Worldwide] Gridseed 1 chip + 5 chip Dual miners 0.105/0.405 btc on: January 29, 2014, 11:21:32 PM
Requesting cancellation of my reservation (5 DualMiners)

943  Other / CPU/GPU Bitcoin mining hardware / Re: Gridseed Asic Miner Preview on: January 29, 2014, 10:37:47 PM
Nice to see Gridchips out in the wild, though these miners are quite odd. They couldn't have made them any more difficult to scale neatly, a more traditional board would have been better. But I suppose these are also a beta run of Gridseed based machines. I'm sure there will be plenty more to follow once chips are broadly available.

By my analysis these are 19x more power efficient than a GPU, so for the up front price you are actually getting quite a savings on power use, and are much easier to scale up compared to hot, power hungry GPUs.

The fact that a cheaper GPU gives you better hash/$ is only half of the story you need to look at. Power efficiency, ease of management (time wasted on rig maintenance and setup), and ability to scale are are important factors as well.

944  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Mining (Altcoins) / ASIC vs GPU: Comparison on: January 29, 2014, 08:39:33 PM
Since we now have a real world ASIC capable of Scrypt mining entering the market, we can see what their performance is like compared to a GPU.

DualMiner USB

The DualMiner is rated as follows:

Price: $85 (order of 20+)

LTC/BTC Dual Mode    BTC 500 Mh/s      LTC 40 Kh/s       2.5 Watts

BTC Single Mode        BTC 1600 Mh/s (1.6 Gh/s)            2.5 Watts

LTC Single Mode         LTC  70 Kh/s                              1.5 Watts



A typical R290 card (approximate)

1 R290 Graphics card      ~ $620                    900 Kh/s                      375 Watts (full hash)


Using DualMiners, we would need about 13 to equate a single R290 graphics card:

13 Dual Miners             ~ $1105                      900 Kh/s                     19.5 Watts


In this comparison, we can conclude that for nearly twice the price, you get 19x the power efficiency over a GPU. That means you could run 19 900 Kh/s DualMiner rigs (around 20 Mh/s) on the same power it would take to hash on a single graphics card.

This is ultimately the tradeoff: higher up front cost for drastically reduced long term power usage and much better ability to scale over GPUs


Total Configuration

Let's do a comparison to a typical 6 card GPU rig, including the other parts necessary to operate them

Typical 6 Card Rig           Board, CPU, RAM, PSU, HDD, Cables, etc ( $500)   6 R290 Graphics Cards  ($3720)

5400 Kh/s (5.4 Mh/s)         2250 Watts               Total Cost    ~$4220

Equivalent DualMiners (78)    AsicMiner 49 Port hubs x2 (~$400, cheaper with other solutions)   Raspberry Pi ($45) (Optional)  78 Dualminers (~$6630)

5400 Kh/s (5.4 Mh/s)        117 Watts                     Total Cost    ~$7075


(I may add the 5 Chip miner comparison coming out later)

___________________________

From this we know it takes about 13 Gridchips to equate a single R290 graphics card

We also know that ASICs offer significant power savings over GPUs in terms of nearly 19x

It should be obvious that USB singles like these typically offer the worst $/Hash ratio as they are not hashing dense. It can be assumed something more like a 16x board would fair much better in price/performance. Bitcoin mining performance is paltry for the price here if running in BTC only mode. Compared to GPUs for Scrypt mining however, these chips are a better deal long term.

Gridseeds do offer the unique ability to multi-hash as well, giving your mining operation some flexibility.

Kilohash per $  (Litecoin Only)

6x GPU Rig          1.45 Kh/s/$                    

DualMiners          .76   Kh/s/$


Kilohash per Watt  (Litecoin Only)

6x GPU Rig          2.54 Kh/s/w                    

DualMiners          46.15   Kh/s/w


Please let me know if my math is wrong anywhere  Cool
945  Other / CPU/GPU Bitcoin mining hardware / Re: Is it worth investing in USB Block Erupters? on: January 29, 2014, 03:15:35 AM
These ones are just novelty miners at this point. The best you will do today with a USB miner is about 1.6-2.2 Gh/s, paying about $50 per gigahash. It seems like the ASICMiner Erupters are now really expensive even compared to Gen 2 Bitfury and Antminer USB miners for what you get.
946  Bitcoin / Group buys / Re: [OPEN][Worldwide] Dualminer USB ASIC sha/scrypt miner $85 on: January 29, 2014, 01:25:59 AM
Interested in 5
947  Bitcoin / Mining speculation / Re: Miners Boycot Ghash.io ! on: January 25, 2014, 11:34:50 AM
With the coming multi-million dollar Bitcoin mines, there will be a big offset soon enough.
948  Bitcoin / Mining speculation / Re: Should i buy a butterfly monarch. on: January 24, 2014, 10:37:45 PM
To buy something, they would have to have something to sell
949  Other / CPU/GPU Bitcoin mining hardware / Re: 50 BTC to invest into miners on: January 23, 2014, 07:46:00 PM
50 BTC would get you 4.5 Th/s in Antminers (2.0 BTC each)

However if that is your entire BTC stash, save at least half of it. Mining is a very lucrative industry for those who know what they are doing, if you are not so dedicated to really doing your homework and the math you may never see a positive return on your investment.
950  Bitcoin / Hardware / Re: ntek 1.2th/s miner? on: January 23, 2014, 07:42:06 PM
All you will be getting from them is a really expensive CGI picture of a miner...

Stay far away from any new ASIC company that has shown nothing to community forums. This is probably a scam.

Dont take a chance, there are plenty of reputable sellers to buy gear from now that have real products for sale right now.
951  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Jamie Dimon Goes On The Attack On Bitcoin on: January 23, 2014, 07:19:25 PM
Breaking News:

Criminal banker CEO pond scum doesn't understand Bitcoin beyond its threat to his banking cartel.
952  Bitcoin / Press / Re: [2014-01-24] TigerDirect.com now accepts BTC. Get your GPUs with BTC now on: January 23, 2014, 07:16:20 PM
They are kinda too late to the game, overstock overshadowed them by a mile. If they listened awhile ago, they would have had all that press, now no one really cares.

Too late to join a financial revolution? Don't think so.

They weren't the first? Who cares. Perhaps they were not only after a PR bump, but simply opening themselves up to a multi-billion dollar market space that has brought success to other retailers like Overstock.
953  Other / Meta / Re: Time to Reorientate this Forum towards Cryptocurrencies in general. on: January 23, 2014, 07:03:02 AM
Bitcointalk does have what seems to be an identity crisis.

If altcoin discussions are even allowed here, which they are, even finally receiving more sub-forums to keep altcoin topics from spilling into the Bitcoin areas, is this really a Bitcoin forum anymore?

I've always felt that this forum should either A) fully commit to being the largest cryptocurrency general forum and rebrand itself as such or B) Remove the Altcoin sections entirely and scrub the board of anything but Bitcoin specific content. It seems like Altcoins here are only tolerated, in that case why have anything to do with them at all? Many other altcoin forums have sprung up in recent months.

In the end, this forum doesn't know what it wants to be, and neither does its leadership.

954  Other / CPU/GPU Bitcoin mining hardware / Re: Scrypt ASIC / SHA-256 combo miners Pics details on: January 23, 2014, 06:34:12 AM
I think I will be waiting for dense Gridseed based hardware, but nice to see them in the wild at least.

For those defending GPUs as more profitable:

GPU:

Energy hungry
Hot
Hard to scale at a point without industrial cooling and power
Less up-front cost, but long term pain due to the above

ASIC

Energy efficient
Much less heat
Easier to scale (Simple USB hosts compared to also needing an entire PC to run multiple GPUs)
More up front cost, but savings in the long term due to the vastly increased efficiency.

Pluses and minuses as with all things. Anyone spouting off about how GPUs are so much superior are not considering all points.
955  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN] [OFFER] Nxt to NEX - Exchange one Nxt to 50 NEX coins - LIMITED! on: January 23, 2014, 03:22:01 AM
Ill bite,

50 NXT (2500 NEX)
956  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN][NXR] :: descendant of NXT - for Research and Humanity on: January 23, 2014, 02:26:38 AM
Interested
957  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN] NEM :: descendant of NXT - 4 billion coins on: January 23, 2014, 02:19:43 AM
I'll bite, may be the best 20 NXT I ever spent, or not  Grin

1/22/2014 7:18:27 PM      ID 14343293611098709683      20            1      1
958  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Mining (Altcoins) / Re: MultiMiner & MobileMiner: Your Coins. Your Pools. Your way. Win/Mac/Linux/Mobile on: January 21, 2014, 02:29:48 PM
I am unable to mine with the new version, with each "start" the error appears. I updated .net but it had no effect.

See the end of this message for details on invoking
just-in-time (JIT) debugging instead of this dialog box.

************** Exception Text **************
System.NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object.
   at MultiMiner.Win.MainForm.SaveListViewValuesToConfiguration() in d:\Data\Visual Studio Projects\Personal\MultiMiner\MultiMiner.Win\MainForm.cs:line 1267
   at MultiMiner.Win.MainForm.SaveChanges() in d:\Data\Visual Studio Projects\Personal\MultiMiner\MultiMiner.Win\MainForm.cs:line 1230
   at MultiMiner.Win.MainForm.HandleStartButtonClick() in d:\Data\Visual Studio Projects\Personal\MultiMiner\MultiMiner.Win\MainForm.cs:line 1419
   at System.Windows.Forms.ToolStripItem.RaiseEvent(Object key, EventArgs e)
   at System.Windows.Forms.ToolStripItem.HandleClick(EventArgs e)
   at System.Windows.Forms.ToolStripItem.HandleMouseUp(MouseEventArgs e)
   at System.Windows.Forms.ToolStrip.OnMouseUp(MouseEventArgs mea)
   at System.Windows.Forms.Control.WmMouseUp(Message& m, MouseButtons button, Int32 clicks)
   at System.Windows.Forms.Control.WndProc(Message& m)
   at System.Windows.Forms.ToolStrip.WndProc(Message& m)
   at System.Windows.Forms.Control.ControlNativeWindow.WndProc(Message& m)
   at System.Windows.Forms.NativeWindow.Callback(IntPtr hWnd, Int32 msg, IntPtr wparam, IntPtr lparam)


************** Loaded Assemblies **************
mscorlib
    Assembly Version: 2.0.0.0
    Win32 Version: 2.0.50727.5472 (Win7SP1GDR.050727-5400)
    CodeBase: file:///C:/Windows/Microsoft.NET/Framework64/v2.0.50727/mscorlib.dll
----------------------------------------
MultiMiner.Win
    Assembly Version: 2.4.0.105
    Win32 Version: 2.4.0.105
    CodeBase: file:///C:/Users/Adam/AppData/Local/MultiMiner/MultiMiner.Win.exe
----------------------------------------
System.Drawing
    Assembly Version: 2.0.0.0
    Win32 Version: 2.0.50727.5467 (Win7SP1GDR.050727-5400)
    CodeBase: file:///C:/Windows/assembly/GAC_MSIL/System.Drawing/2.0.0.0__b03f5f7f11d50a3a/System.Drawing.dll
----------------------------------------
System
    Assembly Version: 2.0.0.0
    Win32 Version: 2.0.50727.5467 (Win7SP1GDR.050727-5400)
    CodeBase: file:///C:/Windows/assembly/GAC_MSIL/System/2.0.0.0__b77a5c561934e089/System.dll
----------------------------------------
System.Windows.Forms
    Assembly Version: 2.0.0.0
    Win32 Version: 2.0.50727.5468 (Win7SP1GDR.050727-5400)
    CodeBase: file:///C:/Windows/assembly/GAC_MSIL/System.Windows.Forms/2.0.0.0__b77a5c561934e089/System.Windows.Forms.dll
----------------------------------------
MultiMiner.Utility
    Assembly Version: 1.0.0.0
    Win32 Version: 1.0.0.0
    CodeBase: file:///C:/Users/Adam/AppData/Local/MultiMiner/MultiMiner.Utility.DLL
----------------------------------------
MultiMiner.CoinChoose.Api
    Assembly Version: 2.4.0.105
    Win32 Version: 2.4.0.105
    CodeBase: file:///C:/Users/Adam/AppData/Local/MultiMiner/MultiMiner.CoinChoose.Api.DLL
----------------------------------------
MultiMiner.Coin.Api
    Assembly Version: 2.4.0.105
    Win32 Version: 2.4.0.105
    CodeBase: file:///C:/Users/Adam/AppData/Local/MultiMiner/MultiMiner.Coin.Api.DLL
----------------------------------------
MultiMiner.Xgminer.Api
    Assembly Version: 2.4.0.105
    Win32 Version: 2.4.0.105
    CodeBase: file:///C:/Users/Adam/AppData/Local/MultiMiner/MultiMiner.Xgminer.Api.DLL
----------------------------------------
MultiMiner.Engine
    Assembly Version: 2.4.0.105
    Win32 Version: 2.4.0.105
    CodeBase: file:///C:/Users/Adam/AppData/Local/MultiMiner/MultiMiner.Engine.DLL
----------------------------------------
MultiMiner.Xgminer
    Assembly Version: 2.4.0.105
    Win32 Version: 2.4.0.105
    CodeBase: file:///C:/Users/Adam/AppData/Local/MultiMiner/MultiMiner.Xgminer.DLL
----------------------------------------
System.Xml
    Assembly Version: 2.0.0.0
    Win32 Version: 2.0.50727.5476 (Win7SP1GDR.050727-5400)
    CodeBase: file:///C:/Windows/assembly/GAC_MSIL/System.Xml/2.0.0.0__b77a5c561934e089/System.Xml.dll
----------------------------------------
System.Core
    Assembly Version: 3.5.0.0
    Win32 Version: 3.5.30729.5420 built by: Win7SP1
    CodeBase: file:///C:/Windows/assembly/GAC_MSIL/System.Core/3.5.0.0__b77a5c561934e089/System.Core.dll
----------------------------------------
Accessibility
    Assembly Version: 2.0.0.0
    Win32 Version: 2.0.50727.4927 (NetFXspW7.050727-4900)
    CodeBase: file:///C:/Windows/assembly/GAC_MSIL/Accessibility/2.0.0.0__b03f5f7f11d50a3a/Accessibility.dll
----------------------------------------
System.Configuration
    Assembly Version: 2.0.0.0
    Win32 Version: 2.0.50727.5476 (Win7SP1GDR.050727-5400)
    CodeBase: file:///C:/Windows/assembly/GAC_MSIL/System.Configuration/2.0.0.0__b03f5f7f11d50a3a/System.Configuration.dll
----------------------------------------
sudcghth
    Assembly Version: 2.4.0.105
    Win32 Version: 2.0.50727.5467 (Win7SP1GDR.050727-5400)
    CodeBase: file:///C:/Windows/assembly/GAC_MSIL/System/2.0.0.0__b77a5c561934e089/System.dll
----------------------------------------
kancnrul
    Assembly Version: 2.4.0.105
    Win32 Version: 2.0.50727.5467 (Win7SP1GDR.050727-5400)
    CodeBase: file:///C:/Windows/assembly/GAC_MSIL/System/2.0.0.0__b77a5c561934e089/System.dll
----------------------------------------
System.Web.Extensions
    Assembly Version: 3.5.0.0
    Win32 Version: 3.5.30729.5458
    CodeBase: file:///C:/Windows/assembly/GAC_MSIL/System.Web.Extensions/3.5.0.0__31bf3856ad364e35/System.Web.Extensions.dll
----------------------------------------
System.Web.Abstractions
    Assembly Version: 3.5.0.0
    Win32 Version: 3.5.30729.5420
    CodeBase: file:///C:/Windows/assembly/GAC_MSIL/System.Web.Abstractions/3.5.0.0__31bf3856ad364e35/System.Web.Abstractions.dll
----------------------------------------
System.Web
    Assembly Version: 2.0.0.0
    Win32 Version: 2.0.50727.5474 (Win7SP1GDR.050727-5400)
    CodeBase: file:///C:/Windows/assembly/GAC_64/System.Web/2.0.0.0__b03f5f7f11d50a3a/System.Web.dll
----------------------------------------
b0fgvdzj
    Assembly Version: 2.4.0.105
    Win32 Version: 2.0.50727.5467 (Win7SP1GDR.050727-5400)
    CodeBase: file:///C:/Windows/assembly/GAC_MSIL/System/2.0.0.0__b77a5c561934e089/System.dll
----------------------------------------
w0oq68lo
    Assembly Version: 2.0.0.0
    Win32 Version: 2.0.50727.5467 (Win7SP1GDR.050727-5400)
    CodeBase: file:///C:/Windows/assembly/GAC_MSIL/System/2.0.0.0__b77a5c561934e089/System.dll
----------------------------------------
MultiMiner.CoinWarz.Api
    Assembly Version: 2.4.0.105
    Win32 Version: 2.4.0.105
    CodeBase: file:///C:/Users/Adam/AppData/Local/MultiMiner/MultiMiner.CoinWarz.Api.DLL
----------------------------------------
zvdsgxdc
    Assembly Version: 2.0.0.0
    Win32 Version: 2.0.50727.5467 (Win7SP1GDR.050727-5400)
    CodeBase: file:///C:/Windows/assembly/GAC_MSIL/System/2.0.0.0__b77a5c561934e089/System.dll
----------------------------------------
Newtonsoft.Json
    Assembly Version: 4.5.0.0
    Win32 Version: 5.0.8.16617
    CodeBase: file:///C:/Users/Adam/AppData/Local/MultiMiner/Newtonsoft.Json.DLL
----------------------------------------
MultiMiner.MobileMiner.Api
    Assembly Version: 2.4.0.105
    Win32 Version: 2.4.0.105
    CodeBase: file:///C:/Users/Adam/AppData/Local/MultiMiner/MultiMiner.MobileMiner.Api.DLL
----------------------------------------
wka7aogg
    Assembly Version: 2.4.0.105
    Win32 Version: 2.0.50727.5467 (Win7SP1GDR.050727-5400)
    CodeBase: file:///C:/Windows/assembly/GAC_MSIL/System/2.0.0.0__b77a5c561934e089/System.dll
----------------------------------------
y9ygcxjn
    Assembly Version: 2.4.0.105
    Win32 Version: 2.0.50727.5467 (Win7SP1GDR.050727-5400)
    CodeBase: file:///C:/Windows/assembly/GAC_MSIL/System/2.0.0.0__b77a5c561934e089/System.dll
----------------------------------------

************** JIT Debugging **************
To enable just-in-time (JIT) debugging, the .config file for this
application or computer (machine.config) must have the
jitDebugging value set in the system.windows.forms section.
The application must also be compiled with debugging
enabled.

For example:

<configuration>
    <system.windows.forms jitDebugging="true" />
</configuration>

When JIT debugging is enabled, any unhandled exception
will be sent to the JIT debugger registered on the computer
rather than be handled by this dialog box.
959  Economy / Economics / Re: Talk of China economy collapsing in 3rd/4th Qrt 2014 reaching Fever Pitch on: January 21, 2014, 12:35:33 AM
China has some extreme problems at the moment, all of which will contribute to a collapse, and when that happens the rest of the world's shakey economy will go with it in a cascade of debt defaults.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-01-19/bank-america-actively-preparing-chinese-january-31-trust-default

This above could start a contagion that will start spreading.

China isn't the only country that could collapse at any moment, Japan is facing the same fate along with the EU, and the US.

I think Bitcoin may reach fever pitch when everyone bails out of the fiat economy, because Bitcoin will be the only place to go.
960  Bitcoin / Hardware / Re: The Wasp Project Collective Information thread. on: January 19, 2014, 07:10:01 PM
Congrats  dzarmush! I was hoping mine may take home the prize but his is a good looking logo, should look mighty fine stamped on the first wasps and hives.

I hope to see a Gridseed wasp in the mix  Grin
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