I'm giving 100% ROI away to anyone who thinks pirate is a fraud

[Micon]

gonna discuss this on DD radio tonight, gonna play a clip from the old Matt Interview from a week or so ago, and Matt already declined to come on the show BTW

[IveBeenBit]

gonna discuss this on DD radio tonight, gonna play a clip from the old Matt Interview from a week or so ago, and Matt already declined to come on the show BTW

When will the show be posted and what's the URL for me to download it?

[JoelKatz]

The link will be at http://www.donkdown.com/radio/ eventually.

I think this is the link, but I haven't listened to it, so I'm not 100% sure.
http://www.donkdown.com/donkdown-radio-the-cold-call-show-kathy-liebert-crazier-mike/

[bitcoinBull]

[Herodes]

I'm just thinking out loud here.

Matthew made some bets, and he should've honoured those bets, or not done them at all. Defaulting on all of them over a technicality was really fucked up.

However, if we look at the big picture, he has also contributed to the bitcoin community, he's had many ideas, and he's actually had quite a lot of stuff happening.

Don't get me wrong, as I don't defend his latest actions (the betting stuff) at all, but I'm just thinking, should we in the future forgive him ?

Not sure how old he is, but I guess we've all made some more or less stupid mistakes when we were younger.

So, do you think he should continue to participate in this community, hopefully having learned from his mistakes, or should he forever be an outcast ? If we look
at the case without emotions, he did contribute to a lot of projects.

Now, I'm probably not the right person to speak, as I never forget anyone who wronged me, and to this day I still remember someone cheating me out of about 8 dollars
when I was 10. The technicality that time was: "Yes, I told you you would get the money, but never when, then I got pointed and laughed at!" I've toyed with the tought of
asking to have the money back (+ interest), now about a couple of decades later. To this day, I still remember his name.

I didn't have a stake with pirate, and neither did I have any bets with Matthew, I thought there was something fishy about it, so I didn't touch it.

In a years time or so, perhaps even sooner, the whole ordeal will probably be a footnote, and perhaps Matthew could go on in the community. But I guess, he would never
feel safe wherever he went to a bitcoin conference, because there could always be the disgruntled person that claims he owes them 1000 BTC.

I'm just wondering though how many of the bettors would've paid up, if they lost. I find it hard to think 100% would pay. After all, how much is a forum account worth, and
an anonymous one to boot ?

The only way to achieve fairness in games like these is to have everything in escrow, and that both sides pay the full amount, and no funds are released until the end of the betting.

And technicalities like the one Matthew mentioned should be frowned upon, anyone trying to avoid paying out a bet like that, they should lose their bet in full.

As much as I wouldn't trust Matthew with anything in regards to bitcoins or money, he could perhaps still be an asset to the community in some way ? If he had not
had enough of the entire bitcoin thing yet. Or is he just too damaging for the entire bitcoin project ? I think he's learned that this joke wasn't a very good one by now,
and I bet it's something he will regret for a long time to come, and that has ruined a lot for him. If he does have issues, I hope these will be sorted out with professional
help in the future.

Not saying it was wrong sacking him from Bitcoin Magazine, or that it's wrong turning against him, but just wondering what you all think, should he be out for good ?

[Rassah]

I had a bet, and I would have paid. I've also been specific in explaining that what he did wasn't a joke, and shouldn't be taken lightly.
That said, I agree with you. In the grand scheme of things, he has contributed a lot, at the end has established a pretty bad reputation. So, going forward, I think everyone can make their own judgements as to how they wish to interact with him. Considering the fallout he's going through in his personal business life, I think he's had enough punishment, so, personally, although still being wary around him, I see no reason to continue being angry with him. Personally.

[Tuxavant]

Personally, I think he should start over and build a new brand with no ties to MNW. If he does it right, we'll see a new comer to the community, that doesn't play flamboyant/trolling games, innovates, and gets things done in a professional and respectful manner. Eventually, after establishing a stable reputation, he'll interact physically with the community in meatspace and we'll find out its the reborn MNW and see him for the more mature person we would all like to see.

[Chang Hum]

I agree as he didn't pay he's a scammer, if he did pay he would have been someone with severe mental health problems being taken advantage of!

Anyone betting should have realized bookies odds would have been more like 100/1 on this bet and he was giving even money to the tune of $800000 that should have rang alarm bells to anyone who was genuine about paying (I would guess less than 10% would have paid if he won) and anyone serious should have sought an escrow during the weeks before the bet turned in to stupid money. (even the $10000 original bet was stupid money IMO)

[DeathAndTaxes]

Personally, I think he should start over and build a new brand with no ties to MNW. If he does it right, we'll see a new comer to the community, that doesn't play flamboyant/trolling games, innovates, and gets things done in a professional and respectful manner. Eventually, after establishing a stable reputation, he'll interact physically with the community in meatspace and we'll find out its the reborn MNW and see him for the more mature person we would all like to see.

Matt could have stopped trolling years ago.  He can't.  Just like how in hindsight he realized that not paying a 80K bet would have consequences but he didn't think ahead enough so that he never offered it.  There was no possible way that bet would lead to a good outcome but he couldn't stay away.  If Matt tried what you suggested the new comer we would see would be flamboyant, trolling, not taking anything serious, attention seeking drama queen (who also happens to have a creepy obsession with  underage asian girls).  

[TheKoziTwo]

I'm just wondering though how many of the bettors would've paid up, if they lost. I find it hard to think 100% would pay. After all, how much is a forum account worth, and
an anonymous one to boot ?

This implies that you would steal if there was zero or minimal risk of getting caught. Maybe I'm naive, but I tend to believe the kind of people bitcoin attracts (anarcho-capitalists, liberterians and so forth) are generally very honest people that for moral reasons would have paid up (regardless of their reputation). I know for a fact I would. And this fact alone makes it very unlikely that I can ever trust MNW again, perhaps if he paid everyone what they are rightfully owed.

As for a scammer being an asset to the community, maybe, I mean, Bruce Wagner engaged the community with his bitcoin show and meetups and could have been thought of as an asset in that way. However when his history was exposed his entire credibility went down the drain and he hasn't been doing any since then. I think at least Bruce Wagner has served his time right, he might deserve a second chance, but MNW, he is never going to be punished for this, and unless he pay what people are owed, I think he is not worthy of a second chance.

The community is better served with honest people than scammers imo.

[SgtSpike]

I'm just wondering though how many of the bettors would've paid up, if they lost. I find it hard to think 100% would pay. After all, how much is a forum account worth, and
an anonymous one to boot ?

This implies that you would steal if there was zero or minimal risk of getting caught. Maybe I'm naive, but I tend to believe the kind of people bitcoin attracts (anarcho-capitalists, liberterians and so forth) are generally very honest people that for moral reasons would have paid up (regardless of their reputation). I know for a fact I would. And this fact alone makes it very unlikely that I can ever trust MNW again, perhaps if he paid everyone what they are rightfully owed.

As for a scammer being an asset to the community, maybe, I mean, Bruce Wagner engaged the community with his bitcoin show and meetups and could have been thought of as an asset in that way. However when his history was exposed his entire credibility went down the drain and he hasn't been doing any since then. I think at least Bruce Wagner has served his time right, he might deserve a second chance, but MNW, he is never going to be punished for this, and unless he pay what people are owed, I think he is not worthy of a second chance.

The community is better served with honest people than scammers imo.

+1.  I'm no libertarian or anarchist, but I sure as hell would have paid up if I lost.  Keeping my word is incredibly important to me, even when using a semi-anonymous online profile.

[organofcorti]

If Matt tried what you suggested the new comer we would see would be flamboyant, trolling, not taking anything serious, attention seeking drama queen (who also happens to have a creepy obsession with  underage asian girls).  

17 years old is not underaged in all countries, or even in all western countries.

I think your other comments stand, though.

[Rassah]

I think at least Bruce Wagner has served his time right, he might deserve a second chance, but MNW, he is never going to be punished for this, and unless he pay what people are owed, I think he is not worthy of a second chance.

Just FYI, based on my private PMs, MNW is getting very punished for all of this.

[JoelKatz]

Just FYI, based on my private PMs, MNW is getting very punished for all of this.

I can also confirm this. And it's quite sad because he really did do a lot for the Bitcoin community.

[Chang Hum]

Give him a break everyone you saw him bet up to $800000 without demanding an escrow, on bets of bitcoin odds on him paying were 10/1 against him paying two weeks before. Why did it come as a surprise to anyone and why didn't anyone make a fuss about escrow when it was clear as day he wasn't going to pay!!!

At the end of the day he's not an asshole like pirate, fair enough he shouldn't of done it but he's an attention seeker not a bad man! Matt's lesson was stupid and pointless if you see something that looks like a scam I think you should call them out on it in the hope it saves people money, but the real lesson to be learned from all this is don't trust anyone with your bitcoins!

Lessons

-Don't join ponzi schemes
-Don't expect to get paid off someone that's bet nearly $1m on something stupid.

[CoinCidental]

Give him a break everyone you saw him bet up to $800000 without demanding an escrow, on bets of bitcoin odds on him paying were 10/1 against him paying two weeks before. Why did it come as a surprise to anyone and why didn't anyone make a fuss about escrow when it was clear as day he wasn't going to pay!!!

At the end of the day he's not an asshole like pirate, fair enough he shouldn't of done it but he's an attention seeker not a bad man! Matt's lesson was stupid and pointless if you see something that looks like a scam I think you should call them out on it in the hope it saves people money, but the real lesson to be learned from all this is don't trust anyone with your bitcoins!

Lessons

-Don't join ponzi schemes
-Don't expect to get paid off someone that's bet nearly $1m on something stupid.

Dont trust anyone in the BTC community
Especially not members who hold "respected " positions and have been around for a long time

MNW is  finished after this,why are people even still talking about it ?
i start to wonder how many sock puppets with sizable post counts there really is because
noboby in their right mind would be talking about bring him back after doing this

[Come-from-Beyond]

MNW is  finished after this,why are people even still talking about it ?
i start to wonder how many sock puppets with sizable post counts there really is because
noboby in their right mind would be talking about bring him back after doing this

I'm not a sock puppet and can easily prove it (xoтя бы вoт тaк, Mэтью нe paзгoвapивaeт пo-pyccки). But I'd like to say the same words Rassah said:

Considering the fallout he's going through in his personal business life, I think he's had enough punishment, so, personally, although still being wary around him, I see no reason to continue being angry with him.

And yes. I was involved into his bet and didn't get what I won.

[psilan]

Read this thread for the lols.

This guy hasn't lost anything. He has only gained.
Resigned as a director from a startup high school rag? Boo hoo for him.

Seriously, what real affect will this have on his life?

[flower1024]

Don't get me wrong, as I don't defend his latest actions (the betting stuff) at all, but I'm just thinking, should we in the future forgive him ?

Not sure how old he is, but I guess we've all made some more or less stupid mistakes when we were younger.

i'd forgive him if he would make a - even a small - payment to all his bet-takers

[Rassah]

i'd forgive him if he would make a - even a small - payment to all his bet-takers

No you wouldn't. It wouldn't change your opinion of him in the least, nor would it change anyone else's, sine he would be doing this after the fact, and after being told to, not out of his own volition, and thus not because of his own "good moral" character.

It would be about as useful and effective as having a kid say "I'm sorry" because his mom is standing there making him say it.