[ANN] SpreadCoin | Decentralize Everything (decentralized blockexplorer coming)

[coins101]

I thought that you were part of the SRP team

Won't an SPR classic be in constrast with the SPR activities? I suppose that the ALGO will be the same, SpreadX11 right?

It's going to be a corporate take-over. We'll get $10m with an ICO, buy all the SPR, then figure out how to do what we said in the ICO.

I think that's how ICO's work?

[rhinomonkey]

I thought that you were part of the SRP team

Won't an SPR classic be in constrast with the SPR activities? I suppose that the ALGO will be the same, SpreadX11 right?

It's going to be a corporate take-over. We'll get $10m with an ICO, buy all the SPR, then figure out how to do what we said in the ICO.

I think that's how ICO's work?

Creating a fork to pump the original... haven't heard that one before lol

[coins101]

I thought that you were part of the SRP team

Won't an SPR classic be in constrast with the SPR activities? I suppose that the ALGO will be the same, SpreadX11 right?

It's going to be a corporate take-over. We'll get $10m with an ICO, buy all the SPR, then figure out how to do what we said in the ICO.

I think that's how ICO's work?

Creating a fork to pump the original... haven't heard that one before lol

I'm Head of Imagineering, remember.

[rhinomonkey]

Interesting

I don't think it changes anything for miners if its optional. They will only participate if they can make enough money to pay costs and show a profit. They won't lock themselves in so easily as servicenodes, even for the right to vote.

There should be a way to lock miners in through some sort of hybrid collateral and Pow/PoS arrangement, more from a decentralisation point of view. There is an interesting proposals for a way to merge proof of work, with proof of stake and proof of activity

https://eprint.iacr.org/2014/452.pdf

If you can tie collateral to servicenodes to mining, then you have a way to increase decentralisation as buying lots of equipment is not enough, you also have to buy lots of SPR.

The decentralization idea seems good. I think we wouldn't want to take too many coins away from being eligible nodes, since the point is to support Bitcoin nodes.

My adjustment could be used as a temporary solution until nodes are self-sustained by the data market / DSDN. Once the nodes are making their own money, being paid by miners won't be necessary for the growth of Spreadcoin.

In the beginning though, I think ensuring that miners have a stake in Spreadcoin's success long term might be beneficial. This doesn't even necessarily mean that people will always vote for a reward. If a miner cared about Spreadcoin and Service Nodes were legitimately not serving any purpose then the correct thing to do would be to limit their funding. However, if they are serving a purpose and rogue miners can "attack" by voting zero for their own immediate gain, it could be detrimental to the network.

We haven't seen this in works yet, so it really doesn't matter now. I will bring it up again when we have Service Nodes.

I'm not sure what we would do if no miners wanted a vote (no miners want to put up a collateral). I'm assuming the mining reward would continue to be 100 percent for miners in this instance.

[rhinomonkey]

I thought that you were part of the SRP team

Won't an SPR classic be in constrast with the SPR activities? I suppose that the ALGO will be the same, SpreadX11 right?

It's going to be a corporate take-over. We'll get $10m with an ICO, buy all the SPR, then figure out how to do what we said in the ICO.

I think that's how ICO's work?

Creating a fork to pump the original... haven't heard that one before lol

I'm Head of Imagineering, remember.

I think in this case, we need lots of forks and lots of ICOs.

I'll get to work on "SpreadDark" and "MrSpreadcoin".

Decentralize Everything!

[coins101]

http://www.coindesk.com/peernova-quietly-collects-4-million-big-data-blockchain-play/

Not sure where I've heard that idea before

 

[rhinomonkey]

I know I've asked this a number of times, but I don't recall every learning the answer.

At what point do we think that Poloniex would accept SPR? I mean, is the coming wlalet going to be enough? Or will there have to be working Service Nodes in order to get added?

I just want to be able to shill SPR in the trollbox. Bittrex doesn't have one!!!

[Juantzy]

I know I've asked this a number of times, but I don't recall every learning the answer.

At what point do we think that Poloniex would accept SPR? I mean, is the coming wlalet going to be enough? Or will there have to be working Service Nodes in order to get added?

I just want to be able to shill SPR in the trollbox. Bittrex doesn't have one!!!

IMO SPR is a dying coin ,no dev,no new feature.

[rhinomonkey]

I know I've asked this a number of times, but I don't recall every learning the answer.

At what point do we think that Poloniex would accept SPR? I mean, is the coming wlalet going to be enough? Or will there have to be working Service Nodes in order to get added?

I just want to be able to shill SPR in the trollbox. Bittrex doesn't have one!!!

IMO SPR is a dying coin ,no dev,no new feature.

Wow, quite the astute analysis. I hadn't thought of that. I should really be asking when Bittrex will delist SPR. Thank you for elucidating the situation for me.

Where can I short SPR?   

[coins101]

I know I've asked this a number of times, but I don't recall every learning the answer.

At what point do we think that Poloniex would accept SPR? I mean, is the coming wlalet going to be enough? Or will there have to be working Service Nodes in order to get added?

I just want to be able to shill SPR in the trollbox. Bittrex doesn't have one!!!

No reason for it not to accept it now, other than

* We need more community members, with active thread (a few around here are doing a great job, considering we need service nodes, etc to boost activity and give people stuff to do, questions to post, answers to post, new businesses to form, etc)

* We need more trading volume

* Some general PR and articles wouldn't hurt

[sugarfly]

My main issue with it, which I brought up originally, was that a miner (a rogue miner) could come in and have no care for Spreadcoin's future and set all of his mining blocks to zero thereby resulting in a much lower, and perhaps unsustainable reward schedule for SNs.

The great thing about miners is that they don't need to care about Spreadcoin's future.
It's irrelevant whether they care or not.  
Miners gonna mine, and it's not our job to police their motivations (as georgem would say).
Instead we should care about making their job easy.
(in a chat georgem told me that's what the spread miner will be all about.
Not sure where he is going with that, but we'll see.)

Spreadcoin creates 1440 blocks a day on average.
Georgem made a few calculations about that:
Even if you had a mining cartel that voted 0% all the time,
you would just need 1 rogue miner that mines 1 block a day and votes 100%
to move the SN reward quite considerably in favour of SN.

So having a rogue miner works both ways.
Also, don't forget that mining is about chance.
Someone could have 100 times more hardware than a small guy,
but that small guy might have more luck.

AFAIK, the greatest thing about miner voting is that SN operators are incentivised to mine themselves,
and be it just one block a day.

As a solo mining coin it is essential to get as many people as possible to mine.

How hard can it be to mine just 1 of 1440 blocks?
I think that's a pretty reasonable goal.

-sf-

[georgem]

My proposal, should it be feasible, is that in order for miners to have a vote they must prove that they have some stake in Spreadcoin's success. A collateral of sorts in order to ensure that they are in fact a community member and not some mercenary coming in to extract wealth from the community. A collateral ensures that they have a stake in the success of Spreadcoin, and thus have the incentive to vote in a meaningful way. A way which has Spreadcoin's best interest at heart. Of course other people would be able to mine the coin, but only those with X amount of Spreadcoin would be able to vote on the reward that goes towards the overlay network.

But that would be the essence of centralization.

One key factor of decentralization is to make it easy for newcomers to enter and compete.
Adding regulations of any kind always makes it harder for the newcomers, and further helps the already "established" early investors who already have more SPR than they can count.

Miner's aren't just extracting wealth from the community, they are solving ridiculously hard mathematical problems.
They are already burdened with the collateral they pay in the form of hardware and energy, and the reward they get they quickly sell back to the SPR community anyway. Often at dumping prices.
So it's a closed system, and not a problem that most miner's aren't really affiliated with SPR.

[georgem]

anyway............ GO SPREADCOIN  

Sorry for your loss georgem, long live to DPR !

Thanks guys.

Big thank you to all the miner's out there.
I consider any hash thrown in Spreadcoin's direction as valuable as any dollar I receive as donation.

[rhinomonkey]

My main issue with it, which I brought up originally, was that a miner (a rogue miner) could come in and have no care for Spreadcoin's future and set all of his mining blocks to zero thereby resulting in a much lower, and perhaps unsustainable reward schedule for SNs.

The great thing about miners is that they don't need to care about Spreadcoin's future.
It's irrelevant whether they care or not.  
Miners gonna mine, and it's not our job to police their motivations (as georgem would say).
Instead we should care about making their job easy.
(in a chat georgem told me that's what the spread miner will be all about.
Not sure where he is going with that, but we'll see.)

Spreadcoin creates 1440 blocks a day on average.
Georgem made a few calculations about that:
Even if you had a mining cartel that voted 0% all the time,
you would just need 1 rogue miner that mines 1 block a day and votes 100%
to move the SN reward quite considerably in favour of SN.

So having a rogue miner works both ways.
Also, don't forget that mining is about chance.
Someone could have 100 times more hardware than a small guy,
but that small guy might have more luck.

AFAIK, the greatest thing about miner voting is that SN operators are incentivised to mine themselves,
and be it just one block a day.

As a solo mining coin it is essential to get as many people as possible to mine.

How hard can it be to mine just 1 of 1440 blocks?
I think that's a pretty reasonable goal.

-sf-

Georgem? Is that you?  

You're right, it does incentivize the node operators to mine, which is quite a good thing - more decentralization. I have told myself before I will begin mining, but I have yet to make any steps towards doing it. Once service nodes are out I will (seriously!) I would love it if Georgem made mining super easy, then all I would have to do is hit the GPU on the ground and Spreadcoin will go into my wallet. That's how that works right?

I went back and found this post:

1000 "0" votes averaged with 440 "100" votes is still a very healthy 30.5 %. So the voting collective would have managed to even surpass the proposed goal during this emergency (suicidal GPU farm).

I actually said back then that barriers to entry for mining were a concern of mine so, I'm on board with making the mining easier so everyone can mine and vote. I never thought that Georgem would approve of that other "proposal" anyway. It was a test!


For future reference if Georgem is not in the forum for a while, everyone can begin espousing ideas that lead to centralization. He will magically appear. It's like rubbing a genie's lamp.

[sugarfly]

Georgem? Is that you?  

lol, no.
I admit I just copy/pasted parts of georgem's quotes I looked up.
I've been reading through georgem's long list of posts these past weeks,
and I agree very much with his philosophy.
I might have imitated some of his phraseology.

But hey, let the maestro explain it himself.  

-sf-

[georgem]

Hey guys, don't forget to visit the spreadcointalk forum from time to time:

http://spreadcointalk.org/index.php?topic=763.0

minerpage just posted an interesting article.

I wouldn't mind to see a little bit more action in the forum.

[georgem]

For future reference if Georgem is not in the forum for a while, everyone can begin espousing ideas that lead to centralization. He will magically appear. It's like rubbing a genie's lamp.

At what point do I consider this a "denial of service" attempt on my available time?  

I'm kidding, I will never get tired of teaching you guys a little bit about decentralization.

Now back to work.  

BTW I'm in the BCT forum all the time, but 99% of the time it's because I'm looking up technical bitcoin stuff.

[coins101]

It's coming to life



Still need to see them details of the Spreadwallet

[sugarfly]

Still need to see them details of the Spreadwallet

Ok, what is the relationship between DSDN and Servicenodes?
Are they the same thing?

Isn't it rather the details of how Servicenodes will work that you need to see?

-sf-

[coins101]

Still need to see them details of the Spreadwallet

Ok, what is the relationship between DSDN and Servicenodes?
Are they the same thing?

Isn't it rather the details of how Servicenodes will work that you need to see?

-sf-

Well, it's complicated.

DSDN will be a product offered by ServiceNodes, which is a way to avoid full nodes being operated by small numbers of organisations.

So we need some ways to provide proof that someone is running a full node. This is fine if a customer is using an SPV. If they don't get the service, their SPV will not work, they stop paying. 

But we are also including the launch of a second full node. So we need to know if this node has actually been launched, to prevent service node operators from cheating.

I'm looking for a central client that can link spreadcoin nodes to servicenodes to bitcoin nodes. Spreadwallet has the potential to be an intermediary between two completely different networks, because it can host various clients.